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Author Topic: Anti-War for Oil
Crush T. Velour
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Check out this link:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/Investigation/oil_for_food_ripoff_040420-1.html

The Arab Media is still full of claims that the US invaded Iraq to control its oil.

What about the UN's suspicious disinclination for war in light of the fact that ministers were getting rich by skimming from the "Oil For Food" program, and accepting bribes from Saddam?

Basically, the UN was robbing food and medicine from the Iraqi poor, and thus had a keen interest in keeping Saddam in power.

Gosh, if only we had been more diplomatic, maybe we could have gotten the UN behind us!

[ May 07, 2004, 09:32 PM: Message edited by: Crush T. Velour ]

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Sancselfieme
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quote:
Basically, the UN was robbing food and medicine from the Iraqi poor, and thus had a keen interest in keeping Saddam in power.

This is *far* from proven, and the testimony from Annan and the minister in charge of the program has only gone to cast more doubt on these accusations.
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Crush T. Velour
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Testimony such as....what?
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carmachu
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Excuse me, San? I think your idea of nothing proven is a bit much.

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/S...cle=A11705017_1

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carmachu
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Lets try this again:

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/SpecialArticle.asp?article=A11705017_1

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Sancselfieme
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That article is the most ridiculous opinion piece I have ever seen. The author bases her entire theory on these points:
quote:
1 As of 2001, one of the largest shareholders in BNP was Iraqi-born Nadhmi Auchi, among Britain’s richest citizens. In the 1980’s Auchi had brokered business deals for Saddam; last year he was convicted in France of illicit profiteering as part of the huge Elf oil scandal. The UN says the Oil-for-Food contract was awarded to BNP on a strictly competitive basis.

2 According to a spokesman at the UN Secretary-General’s office, Kojo Annan had been a trainee at Cotecna from December 1995 to February 1998, and two months later was back at work for the firm as a consultant; his consultancy, which lasted until December 1998, thus coincided with the period during which the UN would have been receiving and reviewing bids for the Oil-for-Food inspection job. Both Kojo and Kofi Annan have denied that Kojo’s consulting work was in any way related to the UN.

3 This is especially significant in light of the role that would be played by Saddam’s televised propaganda during the war. In the event, Saddam may have had to rely on equipment brought in earlier under Oil-for-Food from places like France and Jordan. He was unable to take delivery of TV studio equipment ordered from Russia and approved and funded by the Secretariat on February 7, 2003, just six weeks before the war. But that was not for want of Kofi Annan’s approval.

4 Not only the occupation authority but the Iraqis themselves have failed to penetrate the UN wall of disdain, although it is their own money they wish to know about. The Iraqi Central Bank began requesting copies of the relevant BNP bank statements in July 2003. Not until late March of this year, after I aired the matter in a piece in National Review Online, was there some halting sign of movement in the UN treasurer’s office. Similar stonewalling—no accounting given, no access to statements—has met the repeated efforts of Kurds in northern Iraq to find out what happened to about $4 billion in separate allocations owed to them under Oil-for-Food.

1. So what? People who often get the best competitive bid are often corrupt as mostly only those who broker and deal unfairly can afford a low enough bid, especially one with this size of responsibility and return.

2. Wow, now she just seems to be attacking his family which is ridiculous since there was nothing to indicate foul play at all, just a questionable linkage and possible conflict of interest.

3. This flat out contradicts itself, why on earth would Saddam reject it, especially since he was trying for all the PR he could get as US troops gathered around Iraq? She doesn't have primary sources proving the UN approved this, O.'s Razor says she's full of baloney.

4. I wonder why the bank under US occupation would have requested these funds? This doesn't make any sense. Also, the Kurds are probably looking for money Saddam stole that conflated accounts at that bank.

It is ever further from being proven if this is the best the UN's accusers has got. Annan and the other minister are doing televised testimonie this week to elaborate on the written statements they released. It sshould be on CNN, I guesst you watch it. Forging the accounting of the UN is a near impossible task, since so many countries watch where every nickle goes, the records will show the real story.

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Crush T. Velour
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quote:
Forging the accounting of the UN is a near impossible task, since so many countries watch where every nickle goes, the records will show the real story.
They don't have to forge them if the don't let anyone see the documentation, or if there is no accounting recorded.

Here's a good one:
http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/23691.htm

Your perspective on the UN's tight accounting is somewhat different from mine in which it makes Eron look sqeaky clean. The UN consists mostly of representatives from countries where corruption IS the system. Its financial accounting reflects that.

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Sancselfieme
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That is *not* what that article says. The article says that the UN is urging the company not to turn over the records to individual governments, whereas it says nothing about withholding those records from the investigative UN committee that is handling this. And no, it's not non-nationally affiliated UN employees that will head that investigation at the UN level, it will be made up I'm sure of people from many nations. You might then ask why hold back from governments who will get the info. anyway, right? Many good reasons for that probably, the most likely being avoiding false-data PR blackmail by countries that aren't too happy with the UN, ie: the US.
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Crush T. Velour
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Oh. I see. So they want to give the documentation soley to investigators that are favorably disposed in their analysis.

Why there's nothing suspicious in that! ;-)

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Sancselfieme
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I hope you're joking and that you understand it is *not* a matter of giving it to people that will cover up anything, rather it is a matter of proper protocol and giving the records to the people it owes them to: the UN gen. assembly and finance councils via investigative request. It is more a matter of giving it to everyone in the UN at once or at least a conglomerate of those who request it from within the UN so the info. can't be used by inidividual governments to slander/blackmail/lie about, etc./ the UN.
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Crush T. Velour
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So its going to privately investigate itself.

How transparent.

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Sancselfieme
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[Roll Eyes]
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Crush T. Velour
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Ya know, Sanc. If this were the Bush Administration who was being accused of cabinet members and undersecretaries skiming off the Pentigon budgets into their private accounts, you would not be satisfied with them saying "we're going to investigate this internally and we'll get back with you...no, no! We're not going to release any of the evidence because you know those Democrats would only use it to make us look bad."

Which is why I find it hard to take your credulity seriously.

[ May 09, 2004, 04:13 AM: Message edited by: Crush T. Velour ]

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Sancselfieme
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On the contrary, we have had to put up with this time and time again, with investigations all the way from the justice department to circumstances surrounding CIA agents having their identities outed, all the way to scandal surrounding the SEC chief. Bush has handled all of these investigations internally. Even if your statement about Bush was correct, which it obviously isn't, internal investigations in the UN aren't that internal since they will involve staff from many different countries. The main reason this needs to be handled by the UN and shouldn't be allowed to be prostituted to whichever UN-bashing nation wants it is that the UN is accountable to the members of the UN together, not to individual nations by themselves. Your analogy is flawed on another level since everyone WILL be made aware of the information, but at the same time as other nations and as part of the UN. If you still haven't gotten this crucial point after three posts explaining it 3 seperate ways then I advise you to start taking ESL.

[ May 09, 2004, 06:51 AM: Message edited by: Sancselfieme ]

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