Ornery.org
  Front Page   |   About Ornery.org   |   World Watch   |   Guest Essays   |   Contact Us

The Ornery American Forum Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» The Ornery American Forum » World Watch » Noah's Ark? For Real... (Page 1)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   
Author Topic: Noah's Ark? For Real...
winkey151
Member
Member # 2910

 - posted      Profile for winkey151   Email winkey151   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
What do you think?

Noah's Ark? For Real...

By Brannon S. Howse
June 16th, 2006

How many times have you yawned at the claim "Noah's Ark has been discovered"? Right, you say, and Elvis has been sighted again, too. People who hoped to find the famous vessel and the legendary voice have been pretty much in the same boat (so to speak)�No proof. Until today.

Led by explorer, adventurer, and featured Worldview Weekend speaker Dr. Bob Cornuke, a fourteen man crew returned this week from Iran bearing stunning evidence they may have found the long-anticipated even coveted discovery of the remains of Noah's Ark. Bob's team consisted of a "Who's Who" of business, law, and ministry leaders including Barry Rand (former CEO of Avis), the author and Christian apologist Josh McDowell, Frank Turek (co-author with Norm Geisler of I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist), Boone Powell (former CEO of Baylor Medical Systems), and Arch Bonnema (president of Joshua Financial).
Full story with pictures, here...

Posts: 865 | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 99

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Permit me to point out the motto of your source: "Your Source For Understanding The Times Through A Christian Worldview."

I'm curious what evidence they would consider sufficient to disprove the legend of Noah's Ark. [Smile]

Consider what they actually found: an interesting rock formation that looks like fossilized wood, even though they haven't actually performed tests yet to confirm that it is fossilized wood, about a mile and a half down the slope from a site where some pottery fragments were found.

And then we have this: "The team notes that every ecosystem helpful to humans and the animals is reachable within a 25-mile radius of the ark's location."

So we're dealing with some pretty staggeringly ignorant "science," I'm afraid.

Posts: 22935 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
hobsen
Member
Member # 2923

 - posted      Profile for hobsen   Email hobsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Risking the probability that this site had been designed for the purpose of installing a keylogger on my notebook computer, I took a look at this article. It appears to have moved from the link given, but that has a link to it named something like "arkfever."

The article has been buttressed with a claim that scientific tests have been performed indicating that what was photographed is petrified wood. Frankly, I should still tend to believe the geologist who identified the object as a basalt dike which LOOKED amazingly like wood. What is certain is that both cannot be true, as basalt cools from a molten state at which wood would burn. But the text does not say who performed these "scientific tests" nor precisely what they showed which identified this object as petrified wood.

The chief historical and scientific objection to this legend has always been that there is not enough water on the planet to raise the ocean level so as to cover high mountains. Of course a special purpose miracle can be used to explain anything, but this article offers no suggestions about that.

Posts: 4387 | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
winkey151
Member
Member # 2910

 - posted      Profile for winkey151   Email winkey151   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
Permit me to point out the motto of your source: "Your Source For Understanding The Times Through A Christian Worldview."

I'm curious what evidence they would consider sufficient to disprove the legend of Noah's Ark. [Smile]

Consider what they actually found: an interesting rock formation that looks like fossilized wood, even though they haven't actually performed tests yet to confirm that it is fossilized wood, about a mile and a half down the slope from a site where some pottery fragments were found.

And then we have this: "The team notes that every ecosystem helpful to humans and the animals is reachable within a 25-mile radius of the ark's location."

So we're dealing with some pretty staggeringly ignorant "science," I'm afraid.

You're right Tom... I was trying to trick you. [Eek!]
Posts: 865 | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ron Lambert
Member
Member # 682

 - posted      Profile for Ron Lambert   Email Ron Lambert   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hobsen, the chief answer to that "chief historical and scientific objection to this legend" is that mountains are the product of uplifts during and after the global catastrophe of the Flood. There were no high mountains before the Flood.

[ July 16, 2006, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]

Posts: 2645 | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
hobsen
Member
Member # 2923

 - posted      Profile for hobsen   Email hobsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That certainly would answer the objection, Ron; and I thank you for providing the explanation. In general I have enjoyed reading your courteous and intelligent posts, although I doubt we shall ever agree. And of course your explanation requires assuming that animals such as the chamois and the ibex were predesigned for conditions which did not exist at the time they were created, and somehow managed to persist until conditions became suitable for them.

Practically, however, this expedition seems to have been conducted by a random assemblage of Biblical literalists with money. I am not sure they would have agreed on any single explanation for why the alleged ark is now so far above the ocean. But maybe they all believed as you do; they did not say.

Posts: 4387 | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
KnightEnder
unregistered


 - posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Y'all don't actually believe that Noah managed to put two of every species on a boat for forty days do you?

KE

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
winkey151
Member
Member # 2910

 - posted      Profile for winkey151   Email winkey151   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by KnightEnder:
Y'all don't actually believe that Noah managed to put two of every species on a boat for forty days do you?

KE

That would be easier to believe than this world came from nothing.
Posts: 865 | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
KnightEnder
unregistered


 - posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Are the two mutually exclusive?

KE

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Adam Lassek
Member
Member # 1514

 - posted      Profile for Adam Lassek   Email Adam Lassek   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
That would be easier to believe than this world came from nothing.
False dilemma. I disagree with both statements.
Posts: 554 | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
winkey151
Member
Member # 2910

 - posted      Profile for winkey151   Email winkey151   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I can imagine two of each species of animal, that had to live above water, inside a 450 feet long [137.16 meters], 75 feet wide [22.86 meters] and 45 feet high [13.716000000000001 meters]vessel. (That is over 100,000 square feet)
I guess the question would be... how many species of animals needed to go on the ark in order to create all the subspecies we have on Earth today?

I can not imagine, however, nothing making something.

Posts: 865 | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 99

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:

That would be easier to believe than this world came from nothing.

Hm. Are you saying God would not have the power to create a world from nothing?

Once you presume the existence of an omnipotent God, who are you to say what is or is not more reasonably within that God's limits?

quote:
I can not imagine, however, nothing making something.
What made God, then? Or can some things always exist, or spring from nothing, and you just didn't mean those?

[ July 16, 2006, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]

Posts: 22935 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
winkey151
Member
Member # 2910

 - posted      Profile for winkey151   Email winkey151   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:

That would be easier to believe than this world came from nothing.

Hm. Are you saying God would not have the power to create a world from nothing?

Once you presume the existence of an omnipotent God, who are you to say what is or is not more reasonably within that God's limits?

quote:
I can not imagine, however, nothing making something.
What made God, then? Or can some things always exist, or spring from nothing, and you just didn't mean those?

Answer to first question... God does not equal nothing.

Answer to second question... I would never place limits on God.

Answer to third question... God's existence is not effected by the restraints of time and space as we know it. God "IS" and has always been.

Answer to forth question... see answer to third question.

[ July 16, 2006, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: winkey151 ]

Posts: 865 | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 99

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
I would never place limits on God.
So, given the existence of an omnipotent God, who are you to say that He couldn't easily have created the world from nothing and caused a Flood? How can you, in other words, say anything conclusively, given that it's entirely possible that God created the entire Universe six seconds ago -- along with our memories and fossil evidence of a much older Universe? How hubristic is it to suggest that you, despite not having access the mind of God, think you existed two seconds ago?

quote:
God "IS" and has always been.
So you're saying at least one thing doesn't need to have its origin explained. Why do you believe the Earth -- which, unlike God, we know exists -- is not exempt from this same requirement?
Posts: 22935 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
hobsen
Member
Member # 2923

 - posted      Profile for hobsen   Email hobsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks to The Ornery American Forum, I am learning something new every day. In this instance, I had always believed that Descartes wrote, "Cogito, ergo sum." Actually it seems he wrote, "Je pense, donc je suis," which somebody later translated into Latin so every educated person could read it. Both mean in English, "I think, therefore I am;" and Descartes proceeded from that, by logic alone, to deduce such matters as that Jesus had no full brothers, and all the other tenets of the Roman Catholic faith of his day.

Later philosophers concluded Descartes had made a bit of a mistake at the beginning. The best that can be known with certainty is, "Something or other exists." Actually, that alone is surprising. When Eleanor Roosevelt was asked her opinion of the chances for a future life, she is reported to have said she was so surprised to find herself living this life that she would not be too much surprised to live another one.

So how do you know the Earth exists? How do you know you are not floating in a spaceship in some other galaxy experiencing what amounts to a movie based on your own past experiences or those of someone else entirely? Or perhaps a role playing game is a more apt analogy, as that permits you some illusion of moving through a virtual world.

But believing in God and the world has at least the merit of reminding people that both body and spirit seem to be important. Those who insist that others should only believe what they can know with certainty strike me as intellectual prudes bent on imposing their own scruples on others. Believe whatever helps the world make sense to you, so long as you do not contradict yourself. Believing contradictory things, in my opinion, is bad for anyone's disposition and mental health.

[ July 16, 2006, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: hobsen ]

Posts: 4387 | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
winkey151
Member
Member # 2910

 - posted      Profile for winkey151   Email winkey151   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
I would never place limits on God.
So, given the existence of an omnipotent God, who are you to say that He couldn't easily have created the world from nothing and caused a Flood? How can you, in other words, say anything conclusively, given that it's entirely possible that God created the entire Universe six seconds ago -- along with our memories and fossil evidence of a much older Universe? How hubristic is it to suggest that you, despite not having access the mind of God, think you existed two seconds ago?

quote:
God "IS" and has always been.
So you're saying at least one thing doesn't need to have its origin explained. Why do you believe the Earth -- which, unlike God, we know exists -- is not exempt from this same requirement?

Tom... (for the second time) if everything came from God then everything came from something, not nothing.

If you add God as a factor to anything... then anything is possible.

You are silly. [Roll Eyes]

[ July 17, 2006, 12:07 AM: Message edited by: winkey151 ]

Posts: 865 | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
KnightEnder
unregistered


 - posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
hobsen,

Your philosophy ignores the fact that believing in God most often means giving up your life to somebody elses ethics and giving money and power to somebody else. You're basically saying don't insist on logic tell yourself whatever silly fantasy makes you feel good. Those of us who can't do that, are frustrated by those who can.

Winkey, you didn't answer Tom's excellent question.

Why does God not need and origin but the Universe does? We have proof of the Universe's existence, not so God. (And don't worry you'll get used to Tom's holier than thou attitude. [Wink] )

KE

[ July 17, 2006, 01:47 AM: Message edited by: KnightEnder ]

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
winkey151
Member
Member # 2910

 - posted      Profile for winkey151   Email winkey151   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by KnightEnder:

Winkey, you didn't answer Tom's excellent question.

Why does God not need and origin but the Universe does? We have proof of the Universe's existence, not so God. (And don't worry you'll get used to Tom's holier than thou attitude. [Wink] )

KE

KE... I actually already did answer Tom's excellent questions. I guess I needed to give examples.

Tom's question supposes that God would be limited to the same restraints that bind the universe, but He isn't.

Take time for example. God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Is anything else on this earth the same yesterday, today and tomorrow?
He is the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end. Is there anything else on earth that is both the beginning and the end?
God is all knowing, all powerful and everywhere at the same time. Does anything on earth fit that description?

Posts: 865 | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
winkey151
Member
Member # 2910

 - posted      Profile for winkey151   Email winkey151   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
As for Tom's holier than thou attitude... I hadn't noticed.

I have been around so many people with that trait, I guess I must be immuned.

Remember, I have been in churches most of my life. [Eek!]

Posts: 865 | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
hobsen
Member
Member # 2923

 - posted      Profile for hobsen   Email hobsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Actually, KnightEnder, I was thinking about something else. I should have made that clear.

What concerned me was that I had been reading accounts of a number of Soviet spies during the Cold War. These people came to the United States, married and had children for convenience and to blend in with people here, and then abandoned their families and returned to the USSR for their next assignment. You have no proof your wife is any different from that, serving some purpose you do not know, so the principle I am questioning says you should never trust her or believe she is committed to you or to your children. Actually, the argument is not used that way; it is only used to attack religious belief. But saying people should never believe more than they can prove strikes me as a principle which endangers a lot more than the intended target.

Posts: 4387 | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
KnightEnder
unregistered


 - posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hobsen,

For me it's not "should" but wish. But of course not if that hurt them in any way, and I would never tell anyone what they can think or believe.

You raise some interesting questions in both example/possibilities. (It would explain a lot about my wife. [Wink] ) Of course the reality we perceive is all we have to go on, so that's what I do.
(If this is all a VR game I'm going to be very upset at having spent so much time and effort on it. I want my money back. Too much pain. However, that is probably how we will program them when we can. To be as "real" as possible. There is an excellent movie like that called "The Thirteenth Floor".)

Winkie,

Thanks for elaborating. I agree nothing on Earth is like that, which is why we have such a hard time imaging it. Of course as you know I don't "believe" in God, but I think that that is probably how the Universe is.

That it has always been here. No begining or end. Which doesn't mean that God couldn't be, or isn't, in it, or have created it. I personally just see nothing that has convinced me of that. And of course it doesn't effect my every day life.

KE

[ July 17, 2006, 06:25 AM: Message edited by: KnightEnder ]

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Paladine
Member
Member # 1932

 - posted      Profile for Paladine   Email Paladine   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Thanks for elaborating. I agree nothing on Earth is like that, which is why we have such a hard time imaging it. Of course as you know I don't "believe" in God, but I think that that is probably how the Universe is.

That it has always been here. No begining or end.

Modern science, to what limited knowledge of it I has, holds a contrary view. The universe is finite both in age and in area.

God isn't fettered by the rules of space-time because, having created space-time, he necessarily isn't a part of it, or more accurately necessarily exists outside of it.

Posts: 3235 | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 99

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
God isn't fettered by the rules of space-time because, having created space-time, he necessarily isn't a part of it, or more accurately necessarily exists outside of it.
But since we're hypothesising this about God, why can't we also hypothesize this about literally billions of other things? Once you grant the possibility of existence outside of space-time, anything can be your "First Mover." You might as well say that you're defining God to be that thing which happened to always exist.

[ July 17, 2006, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]

Posts: 22935 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
KnightEnder
unregistered


 - posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think that no matter how many times we make that point, Tom, they just aren't going to get it.

And if they get it they won't address it. I don't know if it's because they 'can't' bring themselves to even consider it, or just that they 'won't' consider it.

Modern science holds a differnt veiw now. But they don't even know what happened at the Big Bang much less what happened before it or will happen in the future. Science is not my religion. And science has changed its view many times in just the last hundred years. There is new information that suggests constants such as the speed of light haven't always been constant. And we still aren't sure how many dimensions there are. We don't know many things. And I said that is what I think. Think, not believe. More people should try it.

Science isn't religion, no matter how much you guys wish it were so.

KE

[ July 17, 2006, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: KnightEnder ]

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
canadian
Member
Member # 1809

 - posted      Profile for canadian   Email canadian       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So is God a white dude with a long flowing beard?

They say man is made in his image, but does that mean two arms, legs, etc? Or does it mean we were made in his intellectual image? Or does it mean we are his imagination?

If god is omnipotently All, then can we really, honestly conceive or understand God?

Is it more likely that we put a "human" face on all the mysteries of life and called it God?

What about religions that have been around far longer that Judaism? Do we risk our souls by denying the existence of many gods? Will Vishnu be angered?

The LDS church is one of the fastest growing christian organizations in the world. Does that mean their version of God is more correct that the Greek Orthodox version? Could the Baptists be wrong? Or is Billy Graham right? He converted a lot of people to his idea of the Almighty.

Have you ever stopped to wonder if Allah has forsaken the Jews because the wimpy ideals of Christianity came from them and He is preparing to exercise his righteous wrath upon the unfaithful?

Maybe there is a Creator.

I like to think so.

But I think if there is a Creator, it must be in the form of a force so complex and enormous that it is impossible to ever understand it. Maybe in a state of meditation we touch it like a finger skimming across the surface of the ocean. We can come in contact with it, but never understand or know the vast depth and mystery that lies beneath.

Posts: 5362 | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
winkey151
Member
Member # 2910

 - posted      Profile for winkey151   Email winkey151   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
KE... One of the things that cemented my belief in God is the fact that most of the things that pertain to God run contrary to what comes natural to humanity. Actually the way I know that something is of God, and not of myself is when I feel that I need to do something that I would not normally want to do.

Like for instance the giving part that you say causes you so much trouble. The Bible says with whatever amount you give... you will be met with above that amount. So if you give out of a cheerful heart, out of obedience to God or if God places something on your heart... then you have put in place an action that will have an equal at minimum reaction. This reaction can come from the direction that you give in... but usually it will come from all kinds of different sources. Sometimes monetary, sometimes gifts, sometimes in your belongings lasting longer than normal or having a blessing added to them, so their value somehow raises, etc.. etc...

Giving out of abundance is pretty easy to do... but what about when you have very little? That is when you really see the benefit of being a giver.

I am not talking about this name it and claim it stuff that it preached on television... where they say send us in a donation and you will get money in the mail. I personally believe that plays on the greed of people and I don't believe God blesses greed... but if you give out of the right spirit, you will find the law that is placed on this earth pertaining to giving and receiving, is real.

Now I have had so many instances where my giving has been blessed, that I can live a life with no concern about finances... and I am not a wealthy person. I know that my needs will be met.

[ July 17, 2006, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: winkey151 ]

Posts: 865 | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
winkey151
Member
Member # 2910

 - posted      Profile for winkey151   Email winkey151   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Tom... OK, I admit. I believe that God is the first mover.

Now my question to you is... who or what do you believe is the first mover?

Posts: 865 | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
KnightEnder
unregistered


 - posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Winkey, it is only 'giving' to religion that I have a problem with. But people can give to the poor or through their actions without involving religion or God. I have a problem like you say with the 'taking' that doesn't go to the poor. As I believe Jesus taught. (My wife was complaining, if that is the right word, to my sister that I tend to give the shirt off my back to people in need. And I've never had the opportunity to give out of abundace.)

And the question you asked Tom, I'd like to answer for me; I don't know. That is if the Universe isn't constant. And the Universe could be God's subconscious, his daydream, or his coat closet for all I know.

KE

[ July 17, 2006, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: KnightEnder ]

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
winkey151
Member
Member # 2910

 - posted      Profile for winkey151   Email winkey151   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
KE... I like the coat closet idea.

It might make a nice little short story. [Big Grin]

Posts: 865 | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
A. Alzabo
Member
Member # 1197

 - posted      Profile for A. Alzabo   Email A. Alzabo   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
KE:
quote:
Y'all don't actually believe that Noah managed to put two of every species on a boat for forty days do you?

Well, they didn't take the dinosaurs. Just imagine what it would have been like with hungry T-Rexes rampaging through the boat.

It would make a cool movie, though..."Jurassic Ark".

Posts: 2519 | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 99

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
I personally believe that plays on the greed of people and I don't believe God blesses greed... but if you give out of the right spirit, you will find the law that is placed on this earth pertaining to giving and receiving, is real.
I submit that keeping this in mind makes giving in the right spirit impossible.

---------

quote:
who or what do you believe is the first mover?
I'm not sure there ever was one, in the sense that you mean.
Posts: 22935 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
winkey151
Member
Member # 2910

 - posted      Profile for winkey151   Email winkey151   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by KnightEnder: Winkey, it is only 'giving' to religion that I have a problem with. But people can give to the poor or through their actions without involving religion or God. I have a problem like you say with the 'taking' that doesn't go to the poor. As I believe Jesus taught. (My wife was complaining, if that is the right word, to my sister that I tend to give the shirt off my back to people in need. And I've never had the opportunity to give out of abundance.)
KE

I have a problem with giving to religion also... I guess you know that by my posts on the "have you changed your religion" thread.

I also think that the interesting part about the laws here on earth, that pertain to God, are also laws that work if you believe in God or not.

Some people say that they think God is mean because He only blesses believers, but that isn't true. There are many earthly laws that will bring blessing to anyone who follows them. All anyone has to do is find out what they are.

Matter of fact a lot of motivational speakers use them in their seminars.

[ July 17, 2006, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: winkey151 ]

Posts: 865 | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
winkey151
Member
Member # 2910

 - posted      Profile for winkey151   Email winkey151   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
I personally believe that plays on the greed of people and I don't believe God blesses greed... but if you give out of the right spirit, you will find the law that is placed on this earth pertaining to giving and receiving, is real.
I submit that keeping this in mind makes giving in the right spirit impossible.

---------

quote:
who or what do you believe is the first mover?
I'm not sure there ever was one, in the sense that you mean.

WRONG SIR. WRONG. Under Section 37-B of the contract signed by him, it states quite clearly that all offers shall become null and void if...and you can read it for yourself in this photostatic copy:

I, the undersigned, shall forfeit all rights, priviledges, and licenses, herein and herein contained, etc. etc. fax mentis incendium gloria culpum, etc. etc. memo bis, punitor delicatum!
It's all there, black and white, clear as crystal! You stole Fizzy-Lifting drinks! You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and sterilized! So you get nothing. YOU LOSE. GOOD DAY, SIR!! [Eek!]

Posts: 865 | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Everard
unregistered


 - posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hrm. Winkey lost it.

Not that this thread ever had it.

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
canadian
Member
Member # 1809

 - posted      Profile for canadian   Email canadian       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
backs away slowly....
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
winkey151
Member
Member # 2910

 - posted      Profile for winkey151   Email winkey151   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Everard:
Hrm. Winkey lost it.

Not that this thread ever had it.

OK... so you guys aren't Willy Wonka fans. I guess I will store that tidbit of information back in the round file. [Big Grin]

[ July 17, 2006, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: winkey151 ]

Posts: 865 | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ron Lambert
Member
Member # 682

 - posted      Profile for Ron Lambert   Email Ron Lambert   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Guess I'm a little behind in the topic flow. But I have to respond to what KnightEnder said: "Y'all don't actually believe that Noah managed to put two of every species on a boat for forty days do you?"

Oh, it's worse than that! God only caused to come onto the ark by twos the animals that were unclean (as later defined in Leviticus 11). The clean animals He caused to come onto the Ark by SEVENS. (See Genesis 7:2.) Also, they were in the Ark for over a year! (See Gen. 7:11, 13, 14.)

Of course, the animals brought onto the Ark need not have been full-grown adults. They could have been babies. Even lion cubs are cute little things.

Oh, you may ask, why seven of every clean animal? Why not six (three breeding pairs)? The answer is that after the Flood receded and Noah and his family emerged onto dry land, they sacrificed to God one of every clean animal.

[ July 17, 2006, 10:44 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]

Posts: 2645 | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
canadian
Member
Member # 1809

 - posted      Profile for canadian   Email canadian       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
And then Thor drank up all the excess water from a mighty flagon.

He was ashamed that he barely moved the level of the liquid contained therein, but later the giants told him that the flagon was really all the oceans in the world and that he had lowered the sea level by miles on the coasts.

Luckily, he had his goat on hand to sacrfice to himself and consume (it was a magic goat that grew flesh and blood onto its bones every morning so that it could be feasted upon every evening).

On another note: Are Norse Beliefs under Attack? (Again?)

[ July 18, 2006, 01:17 AM: Message edited by: canadian ]

Posts: 5362 | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
winkey151
Member
Member # 2910

 - posted      Profile for winkey151   Email winkey151   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by canadian:

On another note: Are Norse Beliefs under Attack? (Again?)

Never... [Eek!]
Posts: 865 | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
hobsen
Member
Member # 2923

 - posted      Profile for hobsen   Email hobsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hard to believe Thor did not notice he was drinking salt water.
Posts: 4387 | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
UBB Code™ Images not permitted.
Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Ornery.org Front Page

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.1