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Author Topic: 37,460 To Zero
DaveS
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quote:
Doesn't that bother you?
Yes. I wonder about my own prejudices in this area, but it's not really about me or my perceptions. Do you sign onto the report made by the DOJ that there were basically zero assaults by white men on black women anywhere in the US for an entire year? If so, fine. If not, why were the attacks not reported or not retained in the system? It's hard to believe that there is so much racial prejudice in this country against blacks, and yet it never manifests into sexual violence. You have a black daughter, but you're not surprised?
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J.B
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quote:
Originally posted by DaveS:

JB, where do you get yours from? Hopefully, not a blog.

From a black man:

While less than 13 percent of the population, blacks commit more than 50 percent of all murders, more than 40 percent of rapes, almost 60 percent of robberies, and more than half of all violent crime. Young black men, ages 15 to 24, while only 1 percent of the population, commit up to 20 percent of all violent crime.

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/elder101801.asp

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DaveS
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Statistics have no meaning. Instead of spitting percentages at us, what does this mean? We're a discussion group, not the statistics review board.
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Rallan
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quote:
Originally posted by DaveS:
Statistics have no meaning. Instead of spitting percentages at us, what does this mean? We're a discussion group, not the statistics review board.

My guess is that J.B. assumes we've read the Turner Diaries and already know what to do [Smile]
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Jesse
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Yeah!!

Leave Ike before he kills you!

Or, was that just good advice for Tina?

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kenmeer livermaile
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"Young black men, ages 15 to 24, while only 1 percent of the population, commit up to 20 percent of all violent crime."

That's an impressive statistic. I wonder what is the statistic of the percentage of all violent crimes committed by all males between 15 and 24 years of age?

There's nothing like context for providing meaning.

Also, the Jewish World Review is one scary rag. Here's the opening sentence from one its contributor's articles:

"Greetings, America-haters. Do you think you could stop raving against our "war criminals" and "killing machines" — and you, Teddy Kennedy, could you stop panting over those Abu Ghraib photos — for a moment and join me in praise for our military's compassion and innovation?"

Whew. Change a few key words and it would fit swell into a Hitler speech.

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kenmeer livermaile
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Some aged data I pulled from the top listing of a quickie google of the terms 'the bulk of violent crime in America is committed by':

quote:
Sex

Most crimes in America are committed by males, and television accurately reflects the disproportionate tendency of men to commit illegal acts. As Table 4 shows, males accounted for 84 percent of all arrests in 1980, including 90 percent of arrests for violent crimes. The proportions on television are about the same. About nine of ten criminals were males regardless of the severity of the offense. Male criminals ranged from a purse snatcher on Hill Street Blues (4/21) to a male involved in a drug-related murder on Hart to Hart (313).

Age

Youthful offenders have been much in the news of late. Especially disturbing is the rise in serious and violent crimes among teenagers. In 1980, young people not yet 18 years old accounted for over one arrest in five across the country. Even more ominous, these teenagers and subteens made up 36 percent of those arrested for FBI Index crimes serious offenses ranging from robbery and larceny to rape and murders. More broadly, young people (mostly young males) are implicated in the vast majority of crimes in the United States. The 18 to 29 year-old age group alone accounted for virtually half of all arrests in 1980. Overall, people not yet 30 years old totalled 70 percent of all recorded arrests for that year.

Arrest records for serious crimes are skewed even more heavily toward young offenders. The under-30s group made up 82 percent of those arrested for offenses that comprise the FBI Crime Index.

Finally, individuals still in their teens or 20s made up nearly three out of four arrests for crimes of violence.


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DaveS
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Hmmm, did you run across any statistics for how much crime is committed by people with bad attitudes, who think their victims are of a lower social, ethnic or racial stratum? How many people with bad attitudes were themselves victims of serious crime? How many had untreated mental illness because they either couldn't afford it or were not properly treated when they did get it?

How about how many and what types of crimes were committed by people in different income or wealth categories? I would say that Ken Lay (head of Enron) injured more people than 10000 rapists, and we can be pretty sure he never stopped smiling while he did it.

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dagon
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quote:
It's hard to believe that there is so much racial prejudice in this country against blacks, and yet it never manifests into sexual violence. You have a black daughter, but you're not surprised?
Look at what you just wrote. It's "hard to believe that there is so much racial prejudice in this country against blacks". Believe. Perhaps it's not as true as we've been led to believe. Perhaps whites aren't seething vats of innate racism.

And actually, it's my daughter that helps me not be surprised. When she is among black people--according to her, the level of racism against whites is huge--and so commonplace as to be a matter of course. Among whites, again according to her, comments about race tend to be framed with embarassment and an insistence on 'fairness'.

Despite the fact that I've lived in the inner city most of my life, she's opened up vistas that I had no idea existed.

And everything I've been taught is shaken by the reality on the ground. I've always had a healthy skepticism about the horror of race relations, and the level of white racism--which I took to be due to growing up in the inner city.

But there comes a time when you've got to wonder if you're being fed a line of bull. When you've got to wonder why you're not seeing this supposedly huge tide of racism. Especially since, though you question, you still believe that it's got to be there.

I don't feel entirely comfortable with the statistic--but is it because I've been raised to "believe that there is so much racial prejudice in this country against blacks" or because the stat really does look questionable?

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Rallan
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quote:
Originally posted by DaveS:
Hmmm, did you run across any statistics for how much crime is committed by people with bad attitudes

I looked, but the only dude I could find with a Bad Attitude (hereafter referred to as B.A.) was part a crack commando unit sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit [Smile]
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guinevererobin
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quote:
I would say that Ken Lay (head of Enron) injured more people than 10000 rapists, and we can be pretty sure he never stopped smiling while he did it.
All right, I have just got to be the humorless feminist here - I don't think you can compare the violent act of rape with the white collar crime of Enron. I don't think that's appropriate even as an act of hyperbole. Even losing your pension, awful as that is, and evil as the Enron debacle was, is not as horrible as being physically violated, and not as damaging as the lasting physical and emotional pain for not only the victim but her family. I'm sure you just didn't think through this statement, but I found it quite offensive.

My apologies for the break in the dialogue.

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J.B
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quote:
Originally posted by DaveS:
Statistics have no meaning.

Your so smart.
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J.B
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Still no one can show one white on black rape.
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Adam Masterman
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quote:
Originally posted by J.B:
quote:
Originally posted by DaveS:
Statistics have no meaning.

Your so smart.
Whose "so smart"? DaveS's? Ahh, irony. "Y'all's is stoopid an' un-edumacated!" Priceless.

[Big Grin]

Adam

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J.B
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quote:
Originally posted by DaveS:
Instead of spitting percentages at us, what does this mean?

It means blacks are very violent.
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J.B
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quote:
Originally posted by Adam Masterman:
J.B., (and I ask this in all seriousness), are you a member of the Ku Klux Klan? Or any other racist groups? Just curious, I guess, but I would be fascinated to hear about such groups from a member, and you are the only likely member I've ever "met".

Adam

I'm a Jew from Los Angeles.
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Adam Masterman
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quote:
Originally posted by J.B:
quote:
Originally posted by Adam Masterman:
J.B., (and I ask this in all seriousness), are you a member of the Ku Klux Klan? Or any other racist groups? Just curious, I guess, but I would be fascinated to hear about such groups from a member, and you are the only likely member I've ever "met".

Adam

I'm a Jew from Los Angeles.
Is that a no?
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RickyB
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Great, another eejit to be ashamed of...
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J.B
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Focus on me, not the subject.
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J.B
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quote:
Originally posted by DaveS:
That means that there were fewer than 10 instances of a white male threatening a black female in the entire US in 2005. REALLY?????

Yes
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Sunshine
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Okay this site is pretty neat but I have a screaming headache and can't expand. See you later.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/offenses/expanded_information/murder_homicide.html

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DaveS
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quote:
I'm sure you just didn't think through this statement, but I found it quite offensive.
Not for precision, no. I'm not equating two kinds of crime, and I'm sorry if the image was offensive to you. But, consider that those people lost something that transformed their lives for the worse, and from which they'll never fully recover. That violation wasn't perpetrated as violence, but was a massive destruction of lives.

The DOJ crime statistics that we've been using only count physical crimes between single individuals. It would be really interesting if they included white collar crimes, or sticking with the bi-racial theme, denial of goods (housing, cars) and services (mortgages or excessive loan rates) because of the race of the "victim". Those are almost always white-on-any-other-race crimes. Detroit is notorious for that sort of crime. I thought it was fair to bring that into this thread for balance, which should have been titled "Look how bad black people are, but white people are so good."

JB, try explaining what you mean a bit more. You're not making any converts with your responses. I imagine you think you are being blunt and speaking the blindingly obvious truth, but you come across as a lost boy or a hopeless case. Talk to us or don't. Just stop pretending to have a superior attitude.
quote:
Perhaps it's not as true as we've been led to believe. Perhaps whites aren't seething vats of innate racism.
"Hard to believe...but" is a phrase meaning "how can one thing be true and something that follows so closely is said to be false." I didn't say whites are as you describe them. The only one here labeling people that way is JB. Your daughter's experiences have broadened your views, which is good, but you also seem to now believe that there is little or no racial prejudice against blacks. Just to be clear, are you saying that there is racial prejudice by blacks against whites, but not by whites against blacks?
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J.B
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quote:
Originally posted by DaveS:
I never thought about this topic before, so I've learned something, too, about the tendency of white men to rape or molest "their own" women. Much more civilized.

If you think that the "tendency of white men to rape or molest "their own" women" is bad.

You should check the "tendency of colored men to rape or molest "their own" women".

It's just evolution.

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J.B
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Dave S,

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/oracetab.htm

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J.B
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quote:
Originally posted by DaveS:
It would be really interesting if they included white collar crimes, or sticking with the bi-racial theme, denial of goods (housing, cars) and services (mortgages or excessive loan rates) because of the race of the "victim".

Are you comparing "denial of goods", to violent crime?
quote:
Originally posted by DaveS:
Those are almost always white-on-any-other-race crimes.

Do you have any proof of what you say?
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DonaldD
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quote:
JB, try explaining what you mean a bit more. You're not making any converts with your responses. I imagine you think you are being blunt and speaking the blindingly obvious truth, but you come across as a lost boy or a hopeless case. Talk to us or don't. Just stop pretending to have a superior attitude.

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kenmeer livermaile
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I don't think he's pretending.
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J.B
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quote:
Originally posted by DaveS:
[QUOTE] Just to be clear, are you saying that there is racial prejudice by blacks against whites, but not by whites against blacks?

Yep, 90% of "hate crimes" each year are black on white.

Let a black man tell you too:

In one recent year, the FBI recorded 1.7 million violent acts -- murder, manslaughter, rape, and aggravated assault -- of interracial crime. Of that figure, nearly 1.2 million involved black-white crime. Ninety percent of these cases involved a black perpetrator and a white victim. Thus, blacks, while comprising 12 percent of the population, committed over one million acts of violent crime against whites.

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/elder102600.asp

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DaveS
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quote:
If you think that the "tendency of white men to rape or molest "their own" women" is bad.

You should check the "tendency of colored men to rape or molest "their own" women".

It's just evolution.

OK, so whites and blacks (in this country) both behave badly. By saying "it's just evolution" I think you mean that black crime against black victims is more damning than white crime against white victims, and that you attribute that to blacks being evolutionarily inferior. Rather than make me guess, why don't you say what you mean.
quote:
Are you comparing "denial of goods", to violent crime?
Are you talking about interracial crime or just violent crime where blacks have a statistically higher incidence? I'm trying to establish some comparisons so we can put all this in perspective. You do want to put your facts in a larger perspective so that you can understand them against other factors, don't you? Can you think of other contributing factors beside race?
quote:
Do you have any proof of what you say?
No, just from reading the news over time, but here's a link to a case the DOJ won against a housing complex that wouldn't rent to blacks. Here's a study about blacks being charged higher car loan rates than whites. I can collect more similar reports and studies, but since I don't see statistics on the DOJ about white collar crime and victim race, I can't prove it statistically. Do you think this is irrelevant?
quote:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/oracetab.htm
This citation doesn't address the point I raised, but it does make me want to understand the other social factors correlated to these crimes, like poverty, drug addiction, etc. Can you find additional information about these statistics?
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dagon
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quote:
Hard to believe...but" is a phrase meaning "how can one thing be true and something that follows so closely is said to be false." I didn't say whites are as you describe them. The only one here labeling people that way is JB. Your daughter's experiences have broadened your views, which is good, but you also seem to now believe that there is little or no racial prejudice against blacks. Just to be clear, are you saying that there is racial prejudice by blacks against whites, but not by whites against blacks?
I am saying that there appears to be far more casually accepted racial prejudice among blacks against whites than the reverse.

Growing up as I did, I always knew it was there, my daughter just gave me a better view on the prevalence of it. And it's frightening.

We act as if racism in the states is a white commodity, as if whites are forever harboring racist ideas and motives that they are, if they are 'enlightened', forever fighting. I no longer believe this. I think whites are generally brought up to think the very concept of racism is distasteful. I think the current young adult generation of whites has been so inculcated to this idea--part of which is learning about their own 'unconscious' racism, that they believe in a level of anti-black racism that isn't there.

Worse, they reject overt racism perpetrated by blacks against them as cultural and societal differences--and view anyone who points out that racism as racist themselves.

And we don't limit ourselves to blacks. 'La Raza'. I have friends who are members--but does it not strike you as strange that we have this organization, whose aims are blatantly racist--'For those of the Race, everything, for those not of the Race, nothing' and no one really calls them on it?

Why?

Because calling them on it labels one 'racist'.

We are nurturing a viper in our midst.

There is racism in the world, and I think there will be racism until we think of ourselves as a single race. But I do not think that whites are the major perpetrators of it anymore.

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KnightEnder
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I agree with what I understand of Dagon's post.

As y'all know I played pro-softball and every year I'd play a couple of tournaments the Latino American tournament and the African American tournament, and I was the ONLY white guy ALLOWED. Each team was allowed only one white guy. I was the token white guy. Partly because I grew up in a predominantly Mexican area of Texas and I had a lot of black friends, and partly because I was so damn good. [Smile]

But can you imagine if we had an Anglo American tournament? Only allowing one Mexican or black on the team? The ACLU would be on our ass faster than you can whistle Dixie.

I definitely think that OVERT racism is more prevalent and acceptable in blacks than in whites.

Until blacks quit seperating themselves from the rest of society racism will never be gone.

The good news is that, as Dagon says, the youth of our nation are not nearly as racist or race conscious. My youngest son's best friend is black. It's not even and issue.

KE

[ May 25, 2007, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: KnightEnder ]

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RickyB
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dagon, every community can and does produce racists and racism. Anyone pretending that reverse racism doesn't exist is an idiot or a villain.

However, you shouldn't let this realization push you all the way to other side - back into generalizations and stereotypes of blacks or anyoen else you discover who also have racists among them.

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J.B
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Still no one can show one white on black rape.
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DaveS
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JB, have opinions on anything else? Movies, cars, gays, favorite foods....?
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MySinsEcho
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Ya know JB, this might blow your mind, but...

There is a super tiny almost non-existent chance that either
A) Black victims didn't report it for fear of reprisal
B) Racist victims lied

I know, its crazy talk!

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MattP
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quote:
Originally posted by DaveS:
JB, have opinions on anything else? Movies, cars, gays, favorite foods....?

J.ust B.lacks
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RickyB
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This is a survey. It only reflects the survey's respondents. And the entry on methodology is... lacking. We have no idea who was asked. There is no indication that this is an amalgam of any official data, such as actual filed complaints, nor of course convictions. Why hasn't anyone pointed this out yet?

J.B., put the bag of fertilizer down.

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Snowden
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J.B.,

Do you think we have a rape gene, or do you think it's a cultural predilection? (I'm ignoring all of the confounding variables in the study and pretending that J.B.'s analysis is appropriate.)

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RickyB
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There's a discussion of this nonsense here

The comments are hilarious (in a very scary way).

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martel
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"As for the racial issue, you might enjoy this reference.
Personality trends in the youthful male offender (1959)

"The first problem was to discover and then meansure certain general personality differences between Negro and white youthful male offenders."

The google link listed:

"The white rapist may be described as a psychopathic deviate with below average intel- ligence and low educational status, while the Negro rapist may be ..."

I would love to know how the sentence ended, but I can't access the rest of the article."

The end of the sentence is: "characterized as a mentally depressed paranoic, also possessing inferior intelligence and low educational status."(I have JStor through my school.)

But mah, I thought ALL negroes had inferior intelligence!

[ May 28, 2007, 03:14 AM: Message edited by: martel ]

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