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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Useful Idiots, Their Role, and Their Final Reward

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Author Topic: Useful Idiots, Their Role, and Their Final Reward
John L
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Here is an interesting interview on You Tube, by former KGB officer, who discusses how communism is furthered, the role of the 'Useful Idiot', and what happens to them when they are no longer needed. And while former SSR is no more, the role of Useful Idiot goes on. Perhaps we should ponder the useful idiots around us, and how they may influence our own behavior or consequences.
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OrneryMod
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If anyone has comments to make on this post or the interview linked, discussion may certainly commence, but please be aware that the thread-starter may not be able to reply immediately, if ever. He may be emailed directly via his profile if desired.
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Richard Dey
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Welcome back!

Hmm ..., ex-Commies, ex-Nazis, ex-Stazis ...! Is Ornery the last refuge [Wink] ?

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DonaldD
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I find it funny that each side of 'the debate' only sees the other side's 'useful idiots' while remaining blissfully oblivious to its own ditto-heads (or so it seems, far too often.)
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KnightEnder
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I saw the same thing on a John Wayne movie yesterday. Of course the Duke was the hero, workiging for The House on UnAmerican Activities [Frown] In the movie the poor 'useful idiots' are killed or discarded once they are no longer useful. Why would they do that? Surely having servile people around would be helpful once they take over?

KE

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Jesse
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Ah, KE, the Soviets killed Communists whenever they got the chance. The problem with the "Useful idiots" is that they were generally true believers, not wanna be Oligarchs.

There is a reason Castro hung Che out to dry, bro.

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theDigressor
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The "Useful Idiots" seem to be the people that actually want things to be better (by their definition of better). Once the revolution occurs and they see it is not their vision they will become someone else's "Useful Idiot" to see their vision put into place and be used again.

If I ever want to incite a recolution I will remember this advice.

Being new here I do not know where my post will go. What's the difference between "Add reply" and "full reply form"?

I am bravely clicking "Add reply" with no thought to the future.

Rick

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Jesse
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"full reply form" allows you to include links...that's about all the difference I know.
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KnightEnder
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Jesse, educate me bro. You told me what happened, but you didn't answer why? Why kill somebody that supports your way of thinkning and has helped you expand your power base? It just doesn't make sense. I've never really understood the hole Che Guevaro thing. Read a lot about him and still don't understand it. Except that Castro wants all the power for himself. But that's not what I'm talking about.

Besides, bringing communism to America doesn't mean that we would be turning over the country to the Russians. Though opponents of communism makes that seem like fate acompli.

KE

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Jesse
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Why? Che would have been leading anti-Castro rebels in the Sierra Meastra within a Decade, because he truly believed in the Revolution, and an independant Cuba.

Castro was not a Communist, he was a power-hungry despot. Actual, passionate, fervent, Communists who knew the facts on the ground became his enemies.

Revolutionaries are scary things, John. They *do* scary things. Most of those Stalin purged where fervently commited Communists. He killed off the Partisans after the war, because they were known to be men of courage willing to fight an opressor.

Snuff 'em out, before they figure out you're as bad as (or worse than) the last guy...'cause those steely-eyed deadly men won't be afraid to gun you down either.

[ May 28, 2007, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: Jesse ]

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WmLambert
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Jesse - you're right, but focusing on the wrong concept. Che was lent out to build South American revolutionary fronts and was a truly evil person. Whether he or Fidel were true believers is off the point. Che was killed by the people he couldn't win over.

What the KGB agent was talking about was what has been confirmed by the opened KGB files (thanks to Glasnost and Peristroika.) The KGB adopted the strategy of using provocateurs and inside agitators during the Vietnam War, and nurtured the Leftist useful idiots in U.S. politics, media, and entertainment. The Winter's Soldiers meeting in Detroit, that John Kerry recounted in his introduction into poliitics, is a good example of that strategy. The opened FBI reports show that most of the anti-war soldiers at that meeting were phonies and liars - many Soviet agents. Kerry was a useful idiot because he ran with this disinformation - and even after he learned how he was duped, he continued to toe the Soviet line of disinformation.

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Jesse
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Oh, yes, out of thousands of stories nearly two dozen where proven to be entirely false or largely exagerated after thirty years of investigation to disprove them.

Sleep tight, don't let the commies getcha.

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kelcimer
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quote:
Originally posted by DonaldD:
I find it funny that each side of 'the debate' only sees the other side's 'useful idiots' while remaining blissfully oblivious to its own ditto-heads (or so it seems, far too often.)

What John L is talking about is country A having people who favor it's system in country B. In his example country A is Russia. If you are talking about "the other side" then you should be talking about America and it's "useful idiots" in other countries. Because we don't kill them after their countries go democratic and they have better lives now, you'd be hard pressed to support the arguement that they were idiots for supporting the ideas of democracy and freedom. The same can't be said of the useful idiots who support socialism and communism, can it?
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Jesse
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We did not urge several hundred thousand usefull idiots in Iraq to rebel, and then watch them be slaughtered without lifting a finger?
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drewmie
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Good example, Jesse. And the same President Bush (senior) promised "no new taxes," and when he was elected broke that promise as well.

Ironically, I supported his action to avoid going into Iraq, AND I supported his action to raise taxes. Both were the responsible thing to do. The wrong, unethical, and immoral thing to do was to make those empty promises in the first place.

[ June 04, 2007, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: drewmie ]

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kelcimer
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quote:
Originally posted by Jesse:
We did not urge several hundred thousand usefull idiots in Iraq to rebel, and then watch them be slaughtered without lifting a finger?

I've noted before how that is one of the black spots in American history and making up for that was one of the reasons I supported invading Iraq.

But that's beside the point. The point was what happens when the useful idiots get what they want. When proponents of socialism and communism bring about the revolution they want, they wind up dead. When proponents of democracy and freedom bring about the revolution they want, they don't wind up dead. One of those groups are real idiots, and it isn't the second one.

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DonaldD
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'useful idiots' existed before the soviet union, and will stull exist when the US is only a distant memory.

They are people who are 'useful' (for a given value of useful) to the party calling them the epithet, but for reasons that that party considers stupid. Sometimes they are also considered a captive audience.

As a couple of examples, and for the longest time, the Democratic Party considered blacks as a demographic of useful idiots. The Republican party did the same with certain flavours of Christians. They both considered abortion partisans as usefully stupid (just different abortion partisans)

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kelcimer
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Here I thought we were talking about a particular kind of useful idiot, the type where they're useful to an enemy nation. Go figure.
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RickyB
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It's a frequent phenomenon with despots - they kill those who helped them get to power because those people have expectations and claims to a share of the power. Once you got rid of a significant number of those (like the nazis did on the night of the long knives) then anybody left is a) really afraid of you and b) has no "original" claim to power alongside you.
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Everard
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Just out of curiosity, how many externally formented revolutions have actually put in place democracy? Because, by the rules kelcimer is playing with, those would be the only states that we should look at to compare with the states that the USSR tried to create.
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RickyB
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Also, why aren't we talking about the Bush administration's "useful idiots"? You know, those who were screaming "treason" at people pointing out the fock-ups? Those who chanted the administration's line on each and every issue - WMD, Iraq and 9-11, army disbanding, de-baathification, Chalabi...?

What about them?

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Colin JM0397
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Those people aren't very useful, so we'll have to start a new topic for just plain ol' idiots.

Of course, this is coming from a reformed but sometimes still occasional idiot.

[ June 08, 2007, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: Colin JM0397 ]

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RickyB
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They were very useful to the administration! That's the point, isn't it?
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Jesse
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"Making up for" nearly a quarter of a million dead patriots. That would surely be a neat trick.
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