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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Football Vs Soccer, Revisited :D (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Football Vs Soccer, Revisited :D
scouser1
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Ok, yas Americans have got a week to convince me what is so much better about your football to ours, cos after reading over the old thread from this, i'm still not convinced [Big Grin]
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MattP
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Violent riots occur less frequently at our football games. [Razz]
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scouser1
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OK, i'll give ya that 1 Matt. But let's not forget the innocent lives lost at Hillsborough, not through riots but through police brutality. Not all tragedies at football games are through hooliganism.
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RickyB
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Football(A) is much better tweaked right now as a viewing experience. Once the offside rule is fixed, soccer will leave everything in the dust again.

The best soccer game trumps the best gridiron game (and I LOVE gridiron)

However, you get a much better product on average on the NFL.

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Dave at Work
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I enjoy both, but I get many more opportunities to see American football than soccer here in the states. I think that it is easier for me to follow the action in American football, but when I get the chance to play I prefer soccer. I guess, for me anyways, American football is the better sport for watching, but soccer is better for playing. But I do like to watch soccer when I can find it on the TV.

I remember when I was in France as an exchange student and later in Brussels when my dad was working there, getting to watch plenty of soccer and enjoying it but having a hard time following the action. Part of that was of course that my command of the language wasn't as good as it could have been, but also despite knowing how to play the game I wasn't used to watching it as a spectator.

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philnotfil
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I can't stand soccer, and I would rather not watch the NFL, so there isn't much I can offer here. College football? Now that is some good stuff. Walking down to the stadium behind the marching band, the rich alumni with their RV's (giving free food to students), the outrageously good looking female college students. Oh, and a game that isn't boring, where the players care about every down, even if it isn't a playoff game, and the coaches aren't afraid to take chances.
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RickyB
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College football hs the better pageant, but a better sporting experience? Please. The majority of the CFB schedule is mortal locks on the basic question of who will win.
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ngthagg
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Football trumps soccer in the mental aspect of the game. Play-calling allows the spectator to become involved in the game, playing the "arm-chair quarterback". This is also the reason why it is hard to convert someone from a soccer fan to a football fan. Understanding plays takes a good knowledge of the game. It is a hard sport to pick up on the fly. You have to be able to understand why a particular play is being called before it is called, not after.

Soccer is a much simpler game. It enjoys incredible popularity around the world because it requires so little investment to play: something reasonably round and soft. Anyone, anywhere can play soccer. And if you can play it, you can watch it and understand it.

There are some other reasons why I prefer football to soccer, but I don't expect them to convince anyone.

I like the hitting. It's not quite as good as rugby, but in general I appreciate a sport where you are expected to risk more than tired legs.

I like the variety of body types. Many sports (soccer included) favour a particular build of player. Football, because of its specialization, requires many different types of builds. (Height is the only consistent attribute that is required, but I think that's the case in any sport. Bigger people have a greater potential for speed, strength, power, etc.) The variety emphasizes the strategy. Do you play your big, bruising, inside-the-tackles running back, or do you play your speedy, agile, down-the-sidelines running back? Do you want to play a guy who has the legs and the reach to cover passes at outside linebacker, or do you want a guy who is an aggressive tackler and will shut down the run?

Finally, I like the fact that when you watch a game on TV, you get to watch at least half of it again in slow motion. Watching hockey this past season there were many times I was frustrated when a great play would happen, but there was no time for the announcers to do a replay. Whether a great hit, some fancy stickwork, or a good save, there are many things that happen in hockey that you will only see once (and then from a lousy view). With football, you get to see every great moment at least twice.

ngthagg

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flydye45
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Football has strength, tactics, focus and injury. It has the thrill of the chase. It has time limits and mandatory successes. If two soccer players spend 10 minutes passing back and forth between themselve, going nowhere, no harm, no foul. You don't make First Down, you lose the ball.

Football includes tactics. Soccer does not.

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Dave at Work
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quote:
Football includes tactics. Soccer does not.
Every sport has tactics. Don't confuse the well defined set plays packaged into distinct periods of time that pass for tactics in football for the be all end all definition of tactics.
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DonaldD
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quote:
Football includes tactics. Soccer does not
Someone either doesn't know what tactics are or doesn't understand soccer.

The difference is that in soccer, it's the players that are responsible for devising most tactics, whereas in american football it's the coach (and sometimes the QB). The players might just as well be mindless automatons.

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flydye45
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Obviously it was somewhat of a simplification. However, the tricks devised by an individual or a pair to get a goal is nowhere near the complexity of getting a line to properly run a play, particularly when in opposition to the other teams tactics.

Or to use an analogy, it is the difference between a rapper and a symphony.


That said, I've slept through several soccer games. How dare you say I don't know what I'm talking about. [Wink]

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DonaldD
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I was going to say that soccer is a painting by Monet, whereas american football is a Lite-Brite screen put together by a teenager. [Smile]

Sure, the teenager's boat and cloud might be more accessible...

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The Drake
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It is the complexity of the tactics that matter. Soccer has tactics like basketball has tactics, and like ice hockey has tactics.

American football has more complexity in tactics, because of the fixed starting positions. Just like chess openings.

That's why rugby is better than both. Lots of on-the-fly player tactics, but plenty of set play tactics from lineouts and scrums.

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DonaldD
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Not that 'complexity of tactics' is terribly meaningful from the perspective of comparing sports, but having fixed starting positions actually simplifies the complexity of set plays in football - in hockey there are actually quite a large number of set plays, but the complexity of each is increased because every situation is different based on the different speeds and exact positions of teammates and opponents as well as a multitude of other factors.

Besides, tactics that are phoned in from the sidelines can barely be considered part of a sport... and really, chess openings are the least interesting part of the game.

If set plays are really what makes american football interesting, there are also set plays in the other sports you mentioned (including soccer) it's just that stoppagge of play isn't the be all and end all of the game. Restart set plays are incidental to the game, not the object. It's like someone enjoying ice cream because it's sweet, then deciding to fill a waffle cone with sugar cubes and hoping for the best.

[ May 30, 2007, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: DonaldD ]

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Richard Dey
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Ng and Drake have it. American rugby (with all its helmets and uniforms and manicured lawns and medical reports) is a sissy sport in comparison -- and soccer is less related to football, futbol[I], or even [I]kickball than it is to the ballet.

"Football would be much more interesting in the nude." - Judy B. -

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philnotfil
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quote:
Originally posted by RickyB:
College football hs the better pageant, but a better sporting experience? Please. The majority of the CFB schedule is mortal locks on the basic question of who will win.

and somehow the college players still manage to look like they care about what they are doing [Smile]
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Jesse
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They both bore me to tears on television, and both are a blast to watch in person.
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ngthagg
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This: "The players might just as well be mindless automatons."

seems very unusual coming after this statement: "Someone either doesn't know what tactics are or doesn't understand soccer."

I suggest, DonaldD, that either you don't know what tactics are or you don't understand football.

Or maybe both.

"The difference is that in soccer, it's the players that are responsible for devising most tactics, whereas in american football it's the coach (and sometimes the QB)."

Here's where your problem is. The excitement of watching sports is not to see tactics being devised, it is to see tactics being executed. Go watch some soccer highlights, and see how many players are actually involved in a play. Typically, you are looking at 2 or 3 per side. These are not demonstrations of tactics, they are demonstrations of individual skill. The majority of the players on the field have nothing to do with a particular goal being scored. Compare that to football, where every play requires a minimum of 7 (out of 11) players to be involved and successful. That's five lineman, the QB, and a ball-carrier or receiver. Often you are counting on some of the other players making effective blocks or running routes or whatever. That's the difference between tactics in football and soccer. Soccer depends on execution from maybe a third of the players. Football depends on the execution of three quarters of the players.

"chess openings are the least interesting part of the game"

Apparently, you aren't so hot on chess, either. The openings in chess are the greatest part of the game. It is that stage where the overall strategies are chosen, and the tactics which are used to win the game are subsidiary to that.

ngthagg

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RickyB
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Live football is a beast. Even in the pros. I'll never forget Mo Lewis taking out Jim Kelly at the dump (sorry, ginats stdium).

I'll agree that CFB has more "emotional content"

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KnightEnder
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quote:
The players might just as well be mindless automatons.
Somebody doesn't know who Joe Montana is, or the run and shoot offense or the 46 defense.

The best football players are thinking creative athletes.

Soccer gives you the lack of scoring of baseball (normal baseball anyway) with the lack of violence and poetry of football. Okay, Maradona was poetry. But that's one ballerina and football is a ballet.

However, I do agree that we will never be able to convince people that don't understand the rules and strategy of football. But more than that they weren't raised with it and they have no emotional attachment to any team. Just as we don't with soccer.

KE

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flydye45
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Richard, you think everything that doesn't involve nudity and studded gauntlets is a sissy sport. [Wink]
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scouser1
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OK, I get all that, but 1 thing I do not get is; why in your football do you have to have your players with so much armour on?? I mean, are they afraid of gettin bruised or somethin? [Wink]
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vulture
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It's because the game is very much stop-start. Because there is generally a long break between each play (compared to the length of the play), and players are rotated in and out, the physical intensity is much higher during the brief bursts of activity. Which leads to harder hits that in rugby, for instance. Plus the setup of the game frequently hasp layers coming from opposite directions at high speeds into contact. Hits between two players running towards each other at full speed are extremely rare in rugby - partly due to the less explosive nature of the game due to it being more continuous, partly due to the fact that the players have to immediately get on with another job in rugby rather than play stopping the moment the ball carrier hits the ground, and partly due to the threat of the ball-carrier passing in rugby (laterals are rare in football).

If football was played without protection, there would probably be several fatalities per week.

And actually, most rugby players wear some level of protection these days.

Now on the other hand the ability of soccer players to suffer life-threatening injuries from being within 5 feet of someone (and yet being able to run around celebrating 20 seconds later after the penalty was score - glances at Ronaldinho) is legendary.

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vulture
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BTW scouse - is my memory screwed or did you mention you were pregnant not so long ago. How is the munchkin doing?
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Lisa M.
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Football players have to wear all that armor because they don't know how to tackle without it.

I believe that football could be played without all that armor, but that players would have to learn how to tackle properly, instead of just relying on opposing forces creating an impact value and hoping that the resultant force vector goes towards their opponent.

I do still enjoy watching it, though.

Soccer does have long periods of time where nothing happens, but when something brilliant happens, it's 10 times better than football's brilliant moments, in my opinion.

It's kind of like comparing apples and orangutangs to me.

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scouser1
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I lost the baby mid-feburary. That was my second loss in as many years. But i'm in the process of trying to fix my condition.
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vulture
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Ah, sorry to hear that (and sorry for bringing it up).
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DonaldD
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Hyperbole, KE. It doesn't work if it's not outrageous. [Smile]

So sorry to hear that, scouser. [Frown] Good luck with that.

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scouser1
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It's ok vulture, you didnt know. I guess I should have said something at the time to save this type of thing from happening, but I didnt want people to think I was gaining uneccessary sympathy by posting about my miscarriage to virtual strangers. And thank you.
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scouser1
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Thank you Donald, much appreciated.
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flydye45
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We lost one about a year and a half ago. My wife took it pretty hard.
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KnightEnder
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No, I was being sincere.

And yes, they have forgotten how to tackle. But no, that has nothing to do with the equipment. Football is unbelievably violent. Like being in a car wreck every week at the pro level. Soccer’s just a wussy sport when attempting comparison. (How's that Don? [Smile] )

If you took away pads the game could still be played but the violence would be severely reduced.

Oh, and they use their hands. Football wasn't nearly as exciting until they invented the forward pass.

Also, I've played all the sports, one of them professionally, and there is nothing like scoring a touchdown. Not even a grand-slam. Unless it's a walk off and your team was 3 runs down with two outs in the bottom of the ninth when you hit it. But every touchdown feels that way. (deadly serious on this point)

Edited to add; I just read your post scouser; I'm really sorry to hear that. I hope you are able to in future.

KE

[ May 31, 2007, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: KnightEnder ]

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KnightEnder
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Soccer is like watching hours and hours of keep-away. At least rugby is more like kill-the-man-with-the-ball. My son's now call it smear-the-queer, but not only is that pc incorrect, it doesn't even make sense.

God soccer is boring. How can you argue a game is exciting when nothing ever happens?

Soccer isn't nearly as good as any of the big 3. Heck, hockey is more entertaining than soccer. Let me know when y'all get another Maradona or Pele. Somebody that at least makes it interesting.

KE

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scouser1
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Thank you KE, I really hope I am too.
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Loki
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I've played a fair amount of hockey and football, and years and years of league soccer. There's a reason for that, soccers free-flowing, personal decision to strong teamwork it is all possible. A quarter the players on a football field at any given time are merely getting in the way, everyone on a soccer pitch has a unique purpose where they will face a variety of challenges and role reversals. How often does someone on the defensive line score a touchdown? Not as often as I'd like.

Football is definitely a great and tactical game, but it limits itself greatly with downs, formations and all or nothing plays. If the reciever misses and the ball hits the ground, play is over, start again. If a striker misses, the ball is instantly put back down toward his goal or caught by another of his teammates for another scoring opportunity. They're all fun, but i'd much rather spend an afternoon kicking a ball around than perhaps never touching the ball.

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Lisa M.
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KE - I don't know, since I've only played football in PE, but there's something incredibly satisfying about pinning one's opponent. For that matter, tech falls are also incredibly satisfying. As is performing a high-level throw (or a well-executed medium- or low-level throw).

I just think wrestling's amazing, though, and no one can ever take that away from me.

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philnotfil
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How often does a goalie score a goal? (or even touch the ball?)
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scouser1
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Goals are very rare out of a goalie. Only a highly skilled goalie, or in most cases a very lucky one, can actually kick it and it would land into the opposing teams goal. In terms of touching the ball, they are the only ones in a game that actually can touch it with their hands, when persay there is a goal kick or they have saved it from a corner kick. Why do you ask?
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The Drake
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Let's not overlook that gridiron generates the best and most complicated statistics, and is thus the most excellent fantasy sport, not to mention the one best suited to other mathematical analysis.

(Ru yrds per game inside the 20)

I attribute this to the 30 seconds that scorers have to write down who carried, who tackled, and the precise measurement of yards gained or lost.

Gridiron also makes the best video game, since you have so many plays to choose and the complexity of being QB. And because of all the stats in the video game.

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