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Author Topic: Broken heart
johnson
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Colin, you live in Charlotte? We ought to hang out sometime.
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Jesse
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The other option, Daruma, is "I need time with my friends, or I won't have any. Trying to cut me off from my friends is manipulative behavior, and I don't do that to you. I've got plenty of time tomorrow, and when I get home tonight we can figure out what we're going to do."

Nine years and running.

I don't play games, I tell her exactly how I feel, what I want, and what I need from her. I encourage her to do the same, and insist that both of us examine and recognize the difference between wants and needs, and set our priorities.

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Funean
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Exactly, Jesse. There's a huge difference between trying to cut someone off from their friends or change them in some fundamental way and noting that *both* parties need make room in their (presumably) full lives for each other. Marriages that aren't nurtured and made a priority founder rather reliably.

Being married is a lifestyle change, just like having kids, and people who act single or childless when they are not soon will be.

There's no good substitute or short cut for honest and mutual communication and prioritizing.

As usual, I see fewer gender issues than everyone else does. [Big Grin]

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cperry
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I'm so sorry to hear about your despair, Ev. It's so hard to remember how that feels when it finally lifts, but I have been there myself and know how awful it is. The beauty of adulthood is that we can almost always remember that all states are temporary (vs. teenagers who seem to always think the current state must be permanent) and that we will grow from each experience, no matter how painful.

As a woman, I feel compelled to chime in on this manly man vs. feminine man debate. Quite frankly, I found James Bond the most attractive when he had the capacity for manliness but chose to be feminine (the shower scene in Casino Royale). Maybe it's just expecting perfection, and that's not fair. Or maybe it's expecting people to be people with a fairly wide range of possible behaviors that we use appropriately for the context. There are times when I want my ex-Marine hubby to go Marine, and there are times when I just want him to listen and be there. It sounds as if you've been yourself and as supportive as you can be. Don't kick yourself over this. Funean was right -- be very good to yourself while you heal.

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Jesse
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Beyond that, it's not just about "keeping" someone.

That's easy enough to do if you know how to tie a decent knot.

As far as the earlier analogy goes...

It's good to have one set of the eyes on the horizon and another making sure the boat doesn't get swamped. It's a bad idea for either crewmember to ignore the other. You wind up horribly off-course, or capsized.

[ August 13, 2007, 11:39 PM: Message edited by: Jesse ]

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Daruma28
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quote:
The other option, Daruma, is "I need time with my friends, or I won't have any. Trying to cut me off from my friends is manipulative behavior, and I don't do that to you. I've got plenty of time tomorrow, and when I get home tonight we can figure out what we're going to do."

Nine years and running.

The other option? You just did exactly what I advocated in situation one, albeit you used different words to the same effect. I'm being just as direct as you...

The point is, I know of plenty of guys (including myself when I was younger) that turned into "Yes Dear, anything you say dear," guys to try and appease their wives/girlfriends, and they without exception ended up worse off for it. A lot of times, women will test their men (oftentimes they don't even know that they are doing it on a conscious level), but it's kind of like a "spine check" if you will.

And I'm not saying compromise or working together is out the window either...I'm 9 years and running in marriage myself. [Smile]

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Gaoics79
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quote:
The point is, I know of plenty of guys (including myself when I was younger) that turned into "Yes Dear, anything you say dear," guys to try and appease their wives/girlfriends, and they without exception ended up worse off for it. A lot of times, women will test their men (oftentimes they don't even know that they are doing it on a conscious level), but it's kind of like a "spine check" if you will.
So you're saying that women are like Hitler and we need to be Churchills and not Chamberlains.

Shame on you, by the way, comparing women to Hitler. Tsk tsk.

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Redskullvw
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No women are like Czarina Catherine The Great.

Some times you just have to act like a horse and crush them.

If women were like Hitler, humanity would no longer have males.

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KonerAtHome
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Ev,

For what my measly little opinion is worth I'll tell you my story. All through high school (1985ish to 1988 I was madly in love with this girl I'll call "M". After we graduated M moved to Kentucky to go to college and I went to college in Indiana. After a while in school I ran out of money and joined the Navy. M and I inevitably lost contact. Fast forward 14 years. I had just moved into my new house and because of a vow I had made to stay single as long as I was in the Navy I was still single. Out of the blue one evening I got a phone call from M. I recognized her voice immediately even though I had not heard it in over 14 years. Within a couple of months she and I were officially "dating". Within 6 months she had moved to a neighboring town where her sister lived and she and I were spending just about all of out time together. We were talking about moving in together and we had even talked marriage and future children together.

During a long drive one day she tells me that she wants to take a break and that we should see other people. Over the course of the next 18 months M and I went through several periods of being "together" and being "just friends". She would randomly show up at my door wanting to get back together (usually after having spent a few weeks dating someone else) or calling me in the middle of the night to tell me that our relationship wasn't working (whatever the hell that meant). I was always there for M no matter what happened. No matter what she needed me to be. I was friend, I was lover, I was banker, cook, ride, shoulder to cry on. I payed her rent on more than one occasion, though she ALWAYS quickly repayed whatever money I lent her despite my attempted refusals to accept it.

I was watching David Letterman one night and on a whim after watching his nightly Top 10 I decided to make my own personal one. I grabbed a pen and paper and made a "Top 10 list of attributes of Koner's dream girl". A few days later while driving down the road I heard a song on the radio that REALLY hit home hard. By the time it was over I had tears streaming down my face because the song made me realize that I had completely wasted the previous 2 1/2 years of my life on a woman who met had only 2 of the attributes on my Top 10. The song was Jackson Brownes, "Late For The Sky"

quote:
Jackson Browne - Late For The Sky Lyrics

The words had all been spoken
And somehow the feeling still wasn’t right
And still we continued on through the night
Tracing our steps from the beginning
Until they vanished into the air
Trying to understand how our lives has led us there

Looking hard into your eyes
There was nobody I’d ever known
Such an empty surprise to feel so alone

Now for me some words come easy
But I know that they don’t mean that much
Compared with the things that are said when lovers touch
You never knew what I loved in you
I don’t know what you loved in me
Maybe the picture of somebody you were hoping I might be

Awake again I can’t pretend and I know I’m alone
And close to the end of the feeling we’ve known

How long have I been sleeping
How long have I been drifting alone through the night
How long have I been dreaming I could make it right
If I closed my eyes and tried with all my might
To be the one you need

Awake again I can’t pretend and I know I’m alone
And close to the end of the feeling we’ve known

How long have I been sleeping
How long have I been drifting alone through the night
How long have I been running for that morning flight
Through the whispered promises and the changing light
Of the bed where we both lie
Late for the sky

The words that hit me the hardest was the lines

quote:
You never knew what I loved in you
I don’t know what you loved in me
Maybe the picture of somebody you were hoping I might be

I was so in love with the idea of being in love with her that it blinded me to the truth. That she was NOT the girl of my dreams no matter how much I tried to make myself and her believe that she was. I went straight home and called M telling her that she was no good for me and that I couldn't be there for her any longer. I haven't spoken to her since. I realized that I was doing EXACTLY what the song lyrics said. I was closing my eyes to the the fact that she and I weren't right for each other and that I was trying with all my might to be the one SHE wanted me to be.

Shortly after my "revelation" I was talking to a friend, Amy, who had been my shoulder to cry on for the previous 18 months and something just clicked. Now almost 2 years later Amy and I are VERY happily married.

Oh and before Amy and I got too involved I pulled out my Top 10 list and amazingly enough Amy hits 9 out of 10.

Koner

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Daruma28
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Glad things worked out for you Koner...I think you went through the exact same thing Ev has been going through.

These women LIKED you both...and they certainly liked how you would do anything for them - but you just didn't "DO IT" for them.

So whenever they meet someone new who sparks their attraction, they start talking about "maybe we should date other people" and start being passive/aggressive and sending mixed signals.

Than either it didn't work out, or they realized they were not that attracted to the person as they thought they were, than it's back to the ole comfort zone and "letting you back into their life" again, filling you guys with hope.

Than along comes another potential guy they find themselves attracted to again, and it's rinse and repeat all over again.

When a man starts hearing from the women he's dating that "maybe we should see other people" or "I just don't want to be in a relationship right now," you gotta wake up, quit fooling yourself and cut the cord for your own sanity and heart's sake.

If a woman truly loves you and wants to be with you, you will NEVER hear those lame lines from her.

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KnightEnder
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quote:
Wanting to date other people again...

This is Womanese for "I like you, I have a good time with you, you treat me very well, but I don't have that "spark" for you."

Ergo, she most likely has a guy in her life who she finds herself attracted to and feels like she can has a chance to hook up with him in the near future.

It sucks man, I feel for you, but understand this:

Women only talk about dating other people when they have specific "other people" in mind.

Maybe, just maybe, this isn't the case in your situation Ev, but I have to say Daruma is right about this 99% of the time. And the other 1% is usually people deceiving themselves. Of course this goes for guys and girls. Sucks, but that has been my experience, and I've seen it, had it done to me, and done it, a hundred times.

Especially in a depressed state; something 'new' can seem like something 'better'. [Frown]

Hope you are right and that isn't the case here.

KE

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KnightEnder
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And as distastful as it is, the only thing that works is to play those stupid games. "Fine, let's see other people." Act like you don't care, and force yourself to date other people.

I know that isn't you. And I know you don't want to win her back that way, but it's what works. Otherwise you'll seem like that pathetic guy Jason is describing, pining away and hoping she'll come back to you. [Frown] Poll a hundred guys and 99 of them will be dead certain their wife/girlfriend will never and has never cheated on them. So, who are all these women cheating? I love Stacy. Nineteen years. But I know you can never say never.

Of course I don't know all the details, and people usually get mad at the messenger, so maybe your case is the exception. I hope so, but I doubt it.

Remember I/we only want the best for you.

And of course you have my number if you want to talk.

KE

[ August 14, 2007, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: KnightEnder ]

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OpsanusTau
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Whether or not she wants to date other people in the abstract, or a specific other person, or just doesn't want to date you and wants to encourage you to look at other girls - or is really sad and in a dark place and just lashing out and hurting you, which I know you know is possible - all you can do about that is take her at her word.

I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about What Women Want, or trying to deconstruct our Nefarious Motives into elaborate scenarios in which we (consciously or subconsiously) Test Men for Spine. That's all silly. Of course any individual woman might well be looking for a manly "jerk", or not, at any time - but if you're not a manly jerk (and it doesn't really seem like you are), then those girls just aren't for you.
There are plenty of us out here. And I promise you, somewhere sprinkled about the planet there are some girls who are looking for someone just like you. A lot of those girls are probably in Southeast Asia, just looking at the numbers, but still.

Ev, I'm so sad for you. It's so hard to lose someone you thought you could be with for a long time. I suppose it's always possible that it could work out still - but I always feel like that's so unlikely, after one person has so badly hurt the other. It's like trying to keep cooking after the onions get burned - it doesn't even matter what other awesome things you put in, it's still going to end up tasting like burnt.
Then again, some people like the taste of burnt things. So, who knows.

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Carlotta
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Ok, after reading all this I just have to share my story because although I think y'all are right most of the time, not always. I didn't say yes the first time my husband proposed to me. We dated almost another year before I said yes. Twice during our relationship I told him I thought we should date other people. The first time we had only been dating for 3 weeks (though hanging out every day as friends for 3 months) and I was about to go spend a semester in Italy. I didn't think we should be tying each other down based on 3 weeks of dating, but we kept in touch, grew closer, and a couple months later admitted to each other that we weren't actually going to date anyone else anyway.

The second time I was going into my senior year of college and hadn't seriously dated anyone else while in college, and was worried that I should date other people before deciding to marry him. He just asked me what I honestly wanted, and why, and then I realized that what I really wanted was to marry him.

I liked him a lot, I even loved him, but at 18 (when we met) I was just not ready to make a lifelong commitment and had some growing up to do first. He accepted me where I was, for example after his first proposal he didn't bring up marriage again until I did. It wasn't "whatever you want dear" but neither was it posturing and playing a role to attract me.

I know in this situation it's more than just not ready, it's depression, and having gone through depression myself I hope she gets treatment. I know how hard it is to be rational and make sense when you're depressed, and it's so frustrating for the people who love you to deepen their relationship with you while depression has its hold. Just ask my husband.

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Zyne
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Ev -- I'm sorry to hear about the breakup. You're smart and fun and kind, and the woman who winds up understanding and embracing your affection and attention, is one lucky bitch.

I've been D, a few times. The girl who rejects the boy she loves and adores, for no comprehensible reason. Nominally, for depression, for sadness, lack of focus, frustration at external things ... for what are really, with perspective, small things. For me, it was not about the boy. There was nothing wrong with the boy. There was something wrong with me, and I couldn't fix me while coupled.

FWIW, she does not sound like she is ready, or even wanting, to date right now. I would guess that's just her way of expressing that she wants big change in her life, and she's not sure how or whether you would, could, should fit.

Her way of meaning that, somewhere along the line, she got worse. She fell apart. Of course that's not your fault, and it's probable you kept her together better and longer than she would have been together on her own, and that she would have fallen further and harder without you. But, it remains that you have been a major player in a very dark chapter in her life, a segment she wants to end. Maybe you're too important a character to survive past the end of the page she's struggling to turn?

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Colin JM0397
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Good alt. pov, Zyne... Her depression factors in with all the other ideas zipping around here, muddling everything together so there's no one absolute thing or answer here.

The best Ev can do is keep his head above water, reclaim his control of himself and his life, and then see if she's going to let him back into her's to start a new chapter. I hope her personal issues aren't so much that she can't do this, but who knows? Even her, it seems, is somewhat lost here.

The one thing I really leaned after several years with a passive-aggressive-slightly-off-kilter-with-personal-problems-and-repressed-feelings-and-anger-from-her-childhood ex-wife is this:

Take care of yourself. Make sure you are a whole, solid, and grounded person and keep after yourself to be mentally sharp and emotionally grounded. If you're not grounded and centered, how can you expect to be a good partner for anyone? You can't, and you only make both parties that much more miserable if you don't have your own sh!t together.

Many of us men want to be the knight in shining armor and slay the dragons for our partner, yet you will never win that battle and it’s a tough lesson to learn that you have to let her battle her own demons. You can support the effort, but you cannot fight her fight for her. That’s a tough, tough one to let go of – the drive to battle for her.

Even in the midst of the most painful experiences I had as my marriage faltered and then failed, I found strength and great happiness in knowing and feeling my own stability and emotional health.

This helps explain it:
quote:
Invictus
Out of the night that covers me
Black as the Pit from pole to pole
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul
In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced or cried aloud
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed
Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the horror of the shade
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find, me unafraid
It matters not how strait the gate
How charged with punishments the scroll
I am the master of my fate
I am the captain of my soul.

- William Ernest Henley


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Colin JM0397
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Johnson, emailed you yesterday - you receive it?
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Adam Masterman
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I have a painful amount of experience with this. My practical advice is to move on as soon as possible. I went through a prolonged "limbo" like this for several months, where I REALLY wanted it to work, and she wasn't sure (ultimately she didn't) and it was amazingly hellish. Wanting something you can't have is an impossible situation. Heartache, on the other hand, is workable. Painful as it is, it can be very valuable. Here are Rimpoche's words on the subject:

quote:
The genuine heart of sadness comes from feeling that your non-existent heart is full. You would like to spill your heart's blood, give your heart to others. For the warrior, this experience of sad and tender heart is what gives birth to fearlessness. Conventionally, being fearless means that you are not afraid or that, if someone hits you, you will hit him back. However, we are not talking about that street-fighter level of fearlessness. Real fearlessness is the product of tenderness. It comes from letting the world tickle your heart, your raw and beautiful heart. You are willing to open up, without resistance or shyness, and face the world. You are willing to share your heart with others.
Difficult advice, to be sure, but Rimpoche was no stranger to sadness, and his capacity for love seemed limitless. Whatever happens, remember that whatever arises will pass; I find that helpful when nothing else is.

Adam

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KnightEnder
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Koner! Good to see you.

KE

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KnightEnder
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Ev,

Apropos of not much; Stacy and I broke up 3 times before getting married. We were both pretty screwed up. Me most of all of course. Once we were apart for 3 months.

Nineteen years last July 24th. (And neither of us resemble the people we were when we first met. Thank God.)

KE

[ August 16, 2007, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: KnightEnder ]

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Carlotta
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I have to say, KE, I admire you so much for your obvious love and dedication to your family, including your wife. Y'all are an amazing couple.
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Everard
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Update-
D had a nice lunch surprise today. I came over to where she's working with a card with a dog on front (she's a dog lover) and inside "Happy caprese salad day, love paul" (caprese salad is about her favorite lunch, plus I got to use basil from the plant she got me for my birthday). We went to a park for her lunch break, ate, talked (not seriously, just had fun), came back, dropped her off and said "I love you," and she said "I love you too," back, and that it was a nice surprise.

I's not goin down without a fight [Smile]

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TomDavidson
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Make it a fight, though, and not a soft squelch. Don't let her walk over you repeatedly.
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TommySama
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"By the way, good advice on this thread so far. The more I go along, the more I refine my technique. Hopefully I'll get it right one of these days"

Read, The Art of Seduction. It's been blasted because it's basically a guide to manipulation, but you can still learn a lot about yourself and how you attract people, making it easier to be un-seductive.

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KnightEnder
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I agree with Tom. Fight, but don't be a doormat. Let her know you love her and your there when she's ready, but your not going to beg an plead, or she won't respect you. Good luck, buddy.


Carlotta,

Thanks. That really means a lot. One of the things I learned from watching my parents grow apart over 20 years, at which time they got divorced, was to make the effort to be sure Stacy and I were growing together. In other words, we talked and talked about where we want to be in the future.

Just out of curiousity how long have you been married? (However long I wish you the best of luck.)

KE

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Carlotta
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KE - 4 years last May. Best thing I ever did, also the hardest, but so worth it.
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Everard
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Well, she used me as a doormat this morning. No, she didn't stay over. Weird story. Power went out at her house, verified due to the car she drove over this morning, requires lots of weird knowledge to know that the car was wrong, but her story makes sense in context of the car she drove over, called to ask if she could shower over here since she can't use the shower in her house if the power is out, she came over... and went through preparations she only does in the morning if she's going out. Before she left, I said "D, you did these three things... do you have a date tonight?" she said "No, I'm not going out with boys. Karla and I are hanging out tonight." I told her "ok, go to work. have a good day." And she walked out of here with the "I'm a horrible person walk," which suggests to me she's probably lying.

So, do I call her on it and walk away, or just walk away without saying anything?

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Wayward Son
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I'm not sure what good calling her on it would do. If you think she lied, how could you trust any explanation she gave?

If you can't trust her, it seems to me there really is nothing there. [Frown]

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Everard
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Yeah, whatever was there is gone.

She is SCRUPULOUSLY honest. She might not say everything on her mind, but she'd never tell a lie. Words have real meaning to her.

Yesterday, I think she had a genuinely good time, and I think she really does care for me. But I guess she's going to blow up her life now, and I don't want to be along for the ride if its going to involve lying to me, using me.

Depression is basically "What sorts of interesting ways can I shoot myself in the foot?" But now she's deciding to shoot my foot, too, and thats not acceptable.

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G2
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I just read this thread. I gotta tell ya, walk away now while you have some dignity and pride left. Cut her off, now. It's like pulling off a band-aid, it hurts but better to do it fast than a little at a time.

She's out of the relationship (for the time being at least) and if you let her treat you like that it will 1)make the whole thing an embarrassing episode you'll never forget no matter how much you try and 2) leave you in the position she knows she can do whatever she wants and you'll take it - and you'll know you will too. If you want to get back with her, those two things will be relationship killers in any long term involvement because she won't have any respect for you and you wont have any for yourself. You don't want that kind of relationship, they're destructive.

Down the road - couple of weeks/months/a year you could get back together and the relationship will be more balanced and grounded in mutual respect. Of course, I'm just some guy on an internet forum... what the hell do I know? [Wink]

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TommySama
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Ev,I'm pretty young, so take my advice with a grain of salt, but I'd suggest not calling her about it. I'd say if you can't trust her on her word she doesn't deserve you anymore.

But these things are easier from outside, I guess.

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Funean
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I submit she is going out with Karla, but they'll be hanging out in a place where they hope to attract male attention. Bar, party, hip young-scene joint...etc. Not that she's going to pick anyone up, or even means to, but that she's now officially "receptive."

Done, bun. [Frown] No more showers and buddy-assists. In the unlikely event she'd truly like to convert this relationship into a friendship (usually that's just a "so I don't feel horrible and so I don't *have* to miss what I *do* like about this person" maneuver, which would be fine if it were on mutual terms), she needs to learn the difference between "friends" and "friends I used to date." It's a matter of respect.

She's not trying to shoot your foot; she'd just like to use it as a footrest while she takes aim at her own.

Don't call. And try not to worry about her. [Frown]

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Jesse
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I'm sorry, Ev.

Wrong woman and or wrong time.

It sucks.

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Daruma28
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Ev, your last two posts merely confirms what I've been saying all along.

Dump her now.

Get all the satisfaction out of being the one to walk away with your dignity intact...because it appears that she only cares for you as much as you are useful to her.

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KnightEnder
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Carlotta,

It has been my experience that every year gets easier and easier. And the first three years were definitely the hardest by far.

As for the 3 year thing: I don't know if that is true as a general rule but it was for us.

And the gets easier every year is due to a bunch of reasons; Your love grows stronger, and your relationship gets stronger (if you work on it), and you realize you are going to be together for the long haul, in our case and I believe yours "forever", so you don't fight over the 'little things' as much. Stacy and I have found that if when we are upset with each other taking some time, as much as an hour or two, to cool down before we discuss the matter really makes a world of difference. Also you learn that there is no 'winning' in an argument with the person you love.

I had an epiphany one day; I realized that I was the only person in the world that was going to really really try to make Stacy happy, and she was the only person in the world that cared about me and making me happy beyond all else. So we do. And it works. Telling and showing you love each other helps too.

This advice goes for everybody. I hope it helps. If an obnoxious jerk like me can stay happily married for 19 years, (last July 24), I know all you well adjusted people can do it. [Smile] You just have to be committed to it, and WORK at it. The payoff is sooo worth it. [Smile]

KE

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KnightEnder
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Ev,

Gotta agree with G2, Tommy, Jesse, and Daruma's last posts. Especially G2's. If you ever want a shot with her in the future someday, you have to show her you are a man, and not a doormat.

I hate those games, but she's playing games with you right now. And the only way to get her to stop is to let her know you won't play anymore.

BUT, let her know that IF she ever REALLY gets her life together, and is ever ready for an adult healthy relationship, you'd love to give it another shot. Let her know how special she is, and how you feel, and that you hope the day comes when she is ready for all the love you want to giver her. THEN walk away. And hope she gets it together and comes back to you someday. It's a risk, but I think it is the only shot you have at having a real relationship with her. But when and if she does come back, make sure she is really ready, really healthy, and not just trying to use you as a port in a storm. Remember; Relationships are hard enough when both people are healthy, happy, and deeply in love. They're almost impossible if one of those three things is missing. Good luck, my friend.

KE

[ August 18, 2007, 07:01 AM: Message edited by: KnightEnder ]

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johnson
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This girl's head is not on entirely straight. Whatever. It's a fecking mess.

Ev, find yourself another one. Fast.

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OpsanusTau
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Trying to be with someone who doesn't want to be in a relationship with you is only going to cause you pain.
She'll probably like it, sort of, and let it go on for as long as you choose to make it continue. Honestly, who doesn't like to be treated like gold? What does she possibly have to lose by letting you be solicitous and warm and understanding and wonderful, while requiring nothing of her?
Meanwhile you will be hoping, always, that she will want to be your girlfriend again. You will convince yourself that her acceptance of the gifts of your love, time, and attention means that she loves you, too, and really wants to be with you. And when she starts dating some other man, she'll feel like you have no reason to be angry, because after all, she did tell you that she wanted to see other people.

Been there. Probably most of us have been there. (Maybe you've been there, too). Maybe you need to go there now. I mean, everyone is giving the advice to get out now and save yourself a lot of heartache - which is entirely valid advice and I probably agree - but who knows, maybe the heartache is beneficial. [Frown]
I mean, I know that being told repeatedly that he didn't want to be with me (and being given reams of helpful advice from wonderful people telling me that it was only going to end in tears, and boy were they right) didn't stop me from "wasting" a year of my life on a lame-*ss schmuck. And as I reflect back on it from a safe distance, I'm not entirely sorry that all that happened.

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Everard
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I got out. It hurts like I hell. But I am out.

I guess the thing is that I have so little experience dating. I had one long on and off thing, and I've dated a few women once or twice, or even up to a month. But this was my first relationship that I treated as an adult. So I have no experience on how to heal myself, or get myself out, or dull the pain. I hear alcohol helps but I don't really drink [Smile]

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Jesse
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It doesn't really help.

Get out and go hiking.

Go hang out at the cafe at barnes and nobel or borders. Talk to women. Don't TRY to find another one, just be open to getting to know some.

Flirt. It's good for the ego.

Retreat and read or play games or write, whatever you're into.

Volunteer somewhere.

Turn off the lights and put on some good music and lay down and experience it.

Work out.

There's a fine line between making sure it doesn't get infected, and picking at it. Denial and wallowing both suck.

It's going to hurt for awhile.

It sucks.

[ August 18, 2007, 06:49 PM: Message edited by: Jesse ]

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