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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Pro-Lifers/Choicers Lose Their Pet Gateway Issue

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Author Topic: Pro-Lifers/Choicers Lose Their Pet Gateway Issue
TaoJeannes
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071120/ap_on_sc/stem_cells
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KnightEnder
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Yeah!
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Funean
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I don't see anything bad about this, either. Huzzah!
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WeAreAllJust LooseChange
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If there was never a debate on the issue - they would have not looked into finding an alternative.
It's a good thing.

Change

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Adam Masterman
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Rock on science. Now we can go back to simply throwing those embryos away with a clear conscience?

[Confused]

Adam

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msquared
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No we go back to the status quo which is that they just sit around.

I was alwasy curious about the group of people who were so pro embryonic stem cell. Sure it was easier but was the easy path always the one that should be taken?

I am glad this was discovered and I hope it works out.

msquared

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NSCutler
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When it comes to science, yes, the easy path is usually the one that should be taken. The more difficult the experiment, the more room for experimental error.
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DaveS
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I don't see any controversy or win here. You would expect science to find different ways to get at the genetic material. The article doesn't mention what the real discussion should be about, which is what to do with it. That hasn't gotten the headlines it deserves, but ultimately has far greater implications to human health and life, in general.
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Everard
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To be honest, I can't even comprehend the moral dilemna that some people see. I mean, I understand that they see it. I just think its a totally non-existent moral dilemna created from nothing.
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TomDavidson
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Whereas, to other people, they're non-existent moral dilemmas created from God!
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Omega M.
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quote:
Originally posted by WeAreAllJust LooseChange:

If there was never a debate on the issue - they would have not looked into finding an alternative.

Actually, I think that scientists would still be looking for easier ways to get stem cells, operating under the assumption that any process can be improved.

Still, I couldn't help but think that a good number of liberals who wanted embryonic stem-cell research to proceed really wanted to help shore up their abortion rights, as this First Things article says:
quote:
I have long suspected that science, in the context of the editorial page of the New York Times, was simply a stalking-horse for something else. In fact, for two something-elses: a chance to discredit America’s religious believers and an opportunity to put yet another hedge around the legalization of abortion. After all, if our very health depends on the death of embryos, and we live in a culture that routinely destroys early human life in the laboratory, no grounds could exist for objecting to abortion.

With these purposes now severed by the Japanese de-differentiation technique, which way will it break?

The answer is, quite possibly, toward a rejection of science by the mainstream press. ... Abortion skewed the political discussion of all this, pinning the left to a defense of science it doesn’t actually hold. The more natural line is agitation against Frankenfoods and all genetic modification, particularly given the environmentalism to which the campaign against global warming is tying the left.

Narratives about positions on public policy are like enormous steamships: It takes a long time to turn them around. But if the news of stem-cell breakthroughs prove accurate, we may well see over the next few years a gradual reversal in news stories and editorials. Watch for it, now that abortion is out of the equation: Much less hype about all the miracle cures that stem cells will bring us, more suspicion about the cancers and genetic pollution that may result, and just about the same amount of bashing of religious believers—this time for their ignorant support of science.


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TomDavidson
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Where will they find stories about religious believers ignorantly supporting science?
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Omega M.
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Probably, as the quotation above says, in stories about religious leaders who support genetically modified food because it will help them in their mission to feed the hungry, with the unstated premise that God has given man dominion over nature.
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TomDavidson
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How many religious leaders are out there advocating for genetically-modified food? I'd say they're dramatically outnumbered by the scientists.
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RickyB
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There are more than enough embryonic stem cells created through miscarriages. The notion that anyone would seek to justify the right to hoose an abortion by claiming that it was necessary so scientists could get enough stem cells to study is... I mean no offense, but kinda silly, no?
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Adam Masterman
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quote:
No we go back to the status quo which is that they just sit around.
Uhh, except for the thousands which get discarded?


quote:
* In vitro fertilization (IVF) generates large numbers of unused embryos (e.g. 70,000 in Australia alone).[13] Many of these thousands of IVF embryos are slated for destruction. Using them for scientific research utilizes a resource that would otherwise be wasted.[13]

(from wiki)

I can entertain an argument against using embyonic stem cells. But its ignorant or deceptive to argue that using them changes the eventual fate of these embryos. If you support IVF, then your argument against using embryonic stem cells needs to be very nuanced, to say the least.

Adam

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Redskullvw
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Adam

One of the reasons why Catholic belief is that IVF should not be done- even though it can.

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Adam Masterman
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Red,

That is certainly a more consistant position. But its a minority of the opposition to ESC research.

Adam

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Wayward Son
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The problem with saying that IVF is immoral because it kills so much human life does not address the fact that it ultimately results in more babies being born. The only way any IVF baby currenlty would be born is through these techniques.

It is only chance IVF babies have to live.

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