Ornery.org
  Front Page   |   About Ornery.org   |   World Watch   |   Guest Essays   |   Contact Us

The Ornery American Forum Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » How we view our Education system- why? (Page 2)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 5 pages: 1  2  3  4  5   
Author Topic: How we view our Education system- why?
Daruma28
Member
Member # 1388

 - posted      Profile for Daruma28   Email Daruma28   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Jesse:
quote:
and if you say it to my face, I'll spit on you.
And some folks say Ken needs his dosage adjusted.

Thin chalk line, eh? I think you'd fit in a little better over at the Boston PD, Everard.

If I were a student in your class, I'd have had you punching me and out of a job within two weeks.

Two minutes for me if I were in his class... [LOL]
Posts: 7543 | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jesse
Member
Member # 1860

 - posted      Profile for Jesse   Email Jesse   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Stop, as a group, defending bad teachers. Don't tell the public how "most teachers aren't like that". Get pro-active in policing yourselves.

Better mental health screening would clearly be a good idea as well.

Posts: 11410 | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Everard
unregistered


 - posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I've had students worse then either of you. Don't overestimate your own annoying tendencies, or underestimate my ability to actually TEACH. Even if the kid is an *******.
IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jesse
Member
Member # 1860

 - posted      Profile for Jesse   Email Jesse   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ah, Yes. It's the kids who are ###holes. Clearly.
Posts: 11410 | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jesse
Member
Member # 1860

 - posted      Profile for Jesse   Email Jesse   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
From: Paul ***** (paul@*****.info)
Sent: Tue 4/15/08 4:35 PM
Reply-to: paul@*******.info

F**k off, a**hole.

Edits mine, including protecting Everards privacy.

I think you're right, Daruma. Two minutes.

[ April 15, 2008, 07:45 PM: Message edited by: Jesse ]

Posts: 11410 | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Everard
unregistered


 - posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
*shrug* some of em are, Jesse. I don't think you'll find more then one or two of my students from the last two years who will say I'm one, though. (Might go up to three today, since I busted one for stealing a calculator).

You and daruma? You guys are adults. You're supposed to "know better". You, I'm not in a position of power over. Tension from the school day? It doesn't come out at school. Here? Yes, sometimes. Especially when people are expressing ignorant offensive opinions.

And then you insulted my mental health... twice. And you're surprised I'm offended?

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
simplybiological
Member
Member # 1344

 - posted      Profile for simplybiological   Email simplybiological   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I teach 9th grade. Most of mine aren't a-holes, they're just... 9th graders. Hormones and immaturity, oh my! Though I have had a desk thrown at me, the f-word said in my direction more times than I can count, and a vague but not imminent knife threat (none of these were at my current school except one f-word), that's not the stuff that sticks with me at the end of the day... I work at a school where I have fantastic relationships and personal interaction with kids who are growing as people and learners based on this wacky way that we teach, and it rocks.

Re: policing:
Most of the teachers I KNOW aren't like that. So when I say they aren't, I'm speaking from my own experience. I know that bad ones are out there, but the ones I work with and know- not bad! What am I supposed to do, lie? Also trust me when I say that no one listens to young teachers... if I tried to police others, I'd get my a$$ chewed (I know this from experience). So until we get responsive admin, I don't know what we're supposed to do.

Posts: 1742 | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jesse
Member
Member # 1860

 - posted      Profile for Jesse   Email Jesse   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Everard, when you start making physical threats and playing internet tough guy because someone doesn't think the average teacher is a sainted martyr worth their weight in gold, it's open to question.

SB

I understand that you're in a pretty unique situation, and working with a group of teachers that varies substantialy from the norm.

To draw a Cop comparison, it's like working with a great small Sherrifs department. There's not much you can personally do to adress opinions formed on the basis of big city police coruption, except keep being something different.

[ April 15, 2008, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: Jesse ]

Posts: 11410 | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kenmeer livermaile
Member
Member # 2243

 - posted      Profile for kenmeer livermaile   Email kenmeer livermaile       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"What is the difference between value and price?"

Well, for starters, there this:
the cost of freedom

Posts: 23297 | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Daruma28
Member
Member # 1388

 - posted      Profile for Daruma28   Email Daruma28   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Worse than either of us....worse at what? Playing along with Ev's definition of proper behavior?

Neither Jesse or I overestimate "our own annoying tendencies" here, but rather, we quite accurately gauge YOURS.

Posts: 7543 | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Daruma28
Member
Member # 1388

 - posted      Profile for Daruma28   Email Daruma28   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So until we get responsive admin, I don't know what we're supposed to do.

Don't hold your breath, sb. The system works exactly as it was designed to.

Posts: 7543 | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kenmeer livermaile
Member
Member # 2243

 - posted      Profile for kenmeer livermaile   Email kenmeer livermaile       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Do we value better pedagogues for our children?

Then we should expect to pay a higher price. Price, I understand, is based on relative scarcity. If educated graduates are as rare as is often claimed, producing citizens who don't understand basic gravitation or think that evolution is that picture in text books that begin with microbes and end with a striding hominid because 'I dunno; dey evolved or sumptin', then perhaps a higher price is our appropriate market response.

Posts: 23297 | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Everard
unregistered


 - posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Apparently you do overestimate your own annoying tendencies if you think I'd hit you, or you are overestimating my own annoying tendencies... I still have my job. And you guys can function as adults in the world. Some of my students aren't even close to that. And no, its not my definition of proper behavior, daruma, not when its every teacher these kids have had for 4 years and the front offices.


"Everard, when you start making physical threats and playing internet tough guy... it's open to question."

yeah... cause you've called people like ricky and daruma on that one...

"because someone doesn't think the average teacher is a sainted martyr worth their weight in gold,"

And if that were even CLOSE to what I've said...

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kenmeer livermaile
Member
Member # 2243

 - posted      Profile for kenmeer livermaile   Email kenmeer livermaile       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"Two minutes for me if I were in his class..."

Folks, Ev ain;t in class right now. This is his chill time. You are making ad hominem judgments based on, at best, semi-relevant data. Perhaps one reason Ev is so hot under the collar on this thread is because now he CAN let steam fly when badgered on the subject.

I am known as a nasty old dog when anyone snaps at me (I just bitch-slapped some barnes dude over on the abortion thread), but I have no patience for picking on people.

Tell him you'd knock his teeth in if he spit on you, and break both arms if he slugged you, and get on with it awreddy.

[ April 15, 2008, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: kenmeer livermaile ]

Posts: 23297 | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jesse
Member
Member # 1860

 - posted      Profile for Jesse   Email Jesse   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ah, so it was the gossiping about students remark that tripped your trigger. I knew it was something.

No matter how hard I try...

Instead of getting angry at me, just stop talking crap about kids with your co-workers.

Ken -

The probable outcome of Ev deciding to spit on me is so clear to everyone but Ev that I really didn't consider it worth commenting on.

[ April 15, 2008, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: Jesse ]

Posts: 11410 | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Daruma28
Member
Member # 1388

 - posted      Profile for Daruma28   Email Daruma28   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
yeah... cause you've called people like ricky and daruma on that one...

Ah Ev, when was the last time I stated I would spit on you or "punch you in the face" (as you once stated in response to me) or any other sort of internet tough guy response when debating with anyone here on Ornery?

In fact, YOU ARE THE ONLY PERSON I can recall who has specifically stated intentions of committing some form of assault on other posters here over disagreements and debates.

Posts: 7543 | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Paladine
Member
Member # 1932

 - posted      Profile for Paladine   Email Paladine   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Firefighters are definitely respected for what they do, and for excellent reason. However, I do not feel that my profession earns the same respect. My question was, how do I change that?
Be good at what you do, show that you care about it, and people will respect you. If you're asking how the minds of the vast majority of Americans can be changed about education, the answer is that their own experiences in school (and the experiences of their children) need to change.

You can't tell people that public school teachers are overwhelmingly hardworking, intelligent, motivated people when the vast majority of people in this country spent 12+ years of their lives daily in the presence of these people and concluded the opposite. They don't care how many certificates and degrees people have; they know that they were bored out of their skulls, and so are their children.

For my part, having myself been a private school teacher, I'm inclined to agree with Jesse's take on teachers being like members of every other profession. There are a few very good, a few very bad, and a whole bunch of in between.

Posts: 3235 | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kenmeer livermaile
Member
Member # 2243

 - posted      Profile for kenmeer livermaile   Email kenmeer livermaile       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"The outcome of Ev deciding to spit on me is so clear to everyone but Ev that I really didn't consider it worth commenting on."

Then you should leave it be, nor should you ascribe internet tough guy claims to him as a faux pas if you're going to do the same yourself.

And it ain't clear to me at all. I once saw the tiniest little queen more or less tap dance on this big bad homophobe's head.

Little queen had grown up doing ballet. *Loved* those tutus, and could jump and kick so strong and fast it literally made the big guy's head spin.

And stop trying to stoop to each other's level, dang it. There's only so much room in this here hog wallow as it is, and I likes my mud, I does.

Posts: 23297 | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Everard
unregistered


 - posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"Ah, so it was the gossiping about students remark that tripped your trigger. I knew it was something."

Nope. It was a) Saying that most teachers earn the pay they get. Its baloney on so many levels its not even funny. b) Insulting my mental health... twice. Exactly as I said above.

"Instead of getting angry at me, just stop talking crap about kids with your co-workers."

Working with other people who've had the student to help them learn better and improve their ability to function in a social environment is, well, fundamental to being a better teacher.

And kenmeer, thank you.

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
scifibum
Member
Member # 945

 - posted      Profile for scifibum   Email scifibum   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Just piling on here...

Ev is clearly not as reactionary in person as he might have come across from the "spit on you" comment (which I didn't take literally), or he'd already be out of the job, and obviously isn't required or likely to apply the same restraint in an adversarial internet forum conversation (or personal emails) as he is as a teacher.

I don't think its fair to call his mental health into question from being a little emphatic online, esp. not to the extent implying he is unfit to be a teacher. From past posts Ev is up front about not always having optimal mental health (depression, IIRC), but that really doesn't mean he can't be a relatively good teacher.

Posts: 6847 | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
scifibum
Member
Member # 945

 - posted      Profile for scifibum   Email scifibum   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
And, to Ev's point, teacher salaries are often capped/defined by legislation, not by supply and demand, so if somebody wants to be a teacher they really aren't writing their own ticket.
Posts: 6847 | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kenmeer livermaile
Member
Member # 2243

 - posted      Profile for kenmeer livermaile   Email kenmeer livermaile       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
And for the record: you're ALL a buncha ****in' loonies. Why, some of you even take me seriously.
Posts: 23297 | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Daruma28
Member
Member # 1388

 - posted      Profile for Daruma28   Email Daruma28   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Why, some of you even take me seriously.

Take comfort in knowing that I myself have never done so... [Razz]

Posts: 7543 | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kenmeer livermaile
Member
Member # 2243

 - posted      Profile for kenmeer livermaile   Email kenmeer livermaile       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"And kenmeer, thank you"

You're welcome. I'll expect a 20$ bill under my pillow or a tooth fairy in a tutu come morning. Talk of violence makes me kinky [Wink]

Posts: 23297 | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jesse
Member
Member # 1860

 - posted      Profile for Jesse   Email Jesse   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
C'mon Ken. Seriously.

Let's not pretend equivalency here when we've got a guy threatening a rather disgusting form of assault over a disagreement about what teachers ought to be paid. It's not like I responded with a similar threat, or ran to the Mod.

Or even got angry. Honestly, amused.

Claiming better pay will magically produce better teachers is like claiming higher prices for paintings will produce more skilled artists.

Me, I'm dedicating the next eight to ten years of my life to earning a massive pay cut. I dig helping folks get their GED, so I'm back in school.

With a Masters, I'll be lucky to earn 30k a year. I'll almost certainly never have a permanent position. There is very little chance I'll have a pension, or get paid vacation, or even get to work at only one campus a day.

On top of that, I'll have a hefty pile of student loans to pay off.

So be it. If you're doing it for the money, you shouldn't be doing it.

I know you've got an underdog fetish, so I ain't takin it personally.

Posts: 11410 | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kenmeer livermaile
Member
Member # 2243

 - posted      Profile for kenmeer livermaile   Email kenmeer livermaile       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"Take comfort in knowing that I myself have never done so... [Razz]":

Daruma, you are a balm for my fevered mind.

Posts: 23297 | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jesse
Member
Member # 1860

 - posted      Profile for Jesse   Email Jesse   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, the bar for being a relatively good public school teacher isn't that high.

Objectively? That's another matter entirely.

Posts: 11410 | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
OrneryMod
Administrator
Member # 977

 - posted      Profile for OrneryMod   Email OrneryMod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, that'll teach me to go out to dinner.

It looks like things are settling down, but there's been a good deal of unnecessary hostility and reactivity on this thread. Sort it out, fight it out via email, whatever, but no more of that on the board, please.

Posts: 1260 | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Paladine
Member
Member # 1932

 - posted      Profile for Paladine   Email Paladine   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You need to bring a pager with you, OM. [Wink]
Posts: 3235 | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
OrneryMod
Administrator
Member # 977

 - posted      Profile for OrneryMod   Email OrneryMod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Perish the thought. That's the slippery slope toward "radio collar," you know. [Wink]
Posts: 1260 | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
FiredrakeRAGE
Member
Member # 1224

 - posted      Profile for FiredrakeRAGE   Email FiredrakeRAGE   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Paladine said:
quote:
Be good at what you do, show that you care about it, and people will respect you. If you're asking how the minds of the vast majority of Americans can be changed about education, the answer is that their own experiences in school (and the experiences of their children) need to change.

You can't tell people that public school teachers are overwhelmingly hardworking, intelligent, motivated people when the vast majority of people in this country spent 12+ years of their lives daily in the presence of these people and concluded the opposite. They don't care how many certificates and degrees people have; they know that they were bored out of their skulls, and so are their children.

I thought that this was probably the most useful post in this thread, and wanted to make sure that it was pulled from the noise [Smile]
Posts: 3538 | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
OpsanusTau
Member
Member # 2350

 - posted      Profile for OpsanusTau   Email OpsanusTau   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think one problem is that, even though you need a relative lot of education and background to teach middle and high school, you don't necessarily need Aptitude and Passion for Teaching to get the job.

And even if you have that aptitude and passion, the public school system is really poorly set up to nurture and further those characteristics. That's probably how we end up with so many teachers who are intelligent, pretty highly educated in their field, and often even motivated to help kids learn, but who are actually really not good teachers.

Meanwhile, a lot of the people who ARE good teachers (with that gift for connecting with students and transferring their passion and curiousity) are off in alternative educational environments (the kind of places that lucky conventional school kids maybe get to go on a field trip), because THAT is where you have a real opportunity to engage the kids and foster some real curiousity and learning.

[ April 15, 2008, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: OpsanusTau ]

Posts: 3791 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
simplybiological
Member
Member # 1344

 - posted      Profile for simplybiological   Email simplybiological   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
OT,
I'm in kind of a pimp situation- I work at a public school where kids attend by choice (no requirements, just choice) but I have a LOT more freedom than the average teacher. I also have a hay-ell lot more work, but the freedom is ultimately worth it (she says after spending some long hours thinking about renewing her contract).

My students have gone from 18% to 65% passing on district value-added assessments (don't get me started on those, but they are good boasting data), and I don't think it's that I'm a ninja- I think our learning system is the ninja. All of my class content (and the content of all courses) is transmitted through real-world project situations, is collaborative with both group and individual accountability.

It's not for every kid, but it rules for a lot of kids. So alternative learning environments aren't the only solution... don't write off public ed, there are pockets of hope.

Posts: 1742 | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
OpsanusTau
Member
Member # 2350

 - posted      Profile for OpsanusTau   Email OpsanusTau   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oh, I'm not writing you off.
I think that changing the system (the way it sounds like you are doing) is the only functional way forward.

But it is not happening in very many places.

Posts: 3791 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mdgann
Member
Member # 2572

 - posted      Profile for mdgann   Email mdgann   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
SB,
It's not an alleged average. It comes from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and is stated as the average salary for High School teachers in the United States of America for the school year 2004-05. If you want more details and actually how they arrived at that average, go to the website and do some research. As for me, I will accept that they don't have any axe to grind and are reporting the numbers as they received them.

Posts: 116 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kenmeer livermaile
Member
Member # 2243

 - posted      Profile for kenmeer livermaile   Email kenmeer livermaile       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"Let's not pretend equivalency here when we've got a guy threatening a rather disgusting form of assault over a disagreement about what teachers ought to be paid. It's not like I responded with a similar threat, or ran to the Mod. Or even got angry. Honestly, amused."

I ain't pretending anything. I just didn't like it, that's all. No point in justifying it to me. I'm not talking about the content of the argument, but how it turned into a rain parade regarding Ev's emotional balance. Ev's putative emotional balance wasn't the topic of the thread, nor was it the problem at hand with his threatening remarks, which themselves most definitely deserved censure.

But when you post private email, even when it's foaming anger, you've asked for censure yourself. There are a lot of ???? who read this board. If Ev wants to show his more rabid impulses in public, that's his business, but not yours, capisch? I hate shamefinger about as much as I hate pickin on people. Ev asked to be slammed hard for bringing in the concept of physical abuse and violence, but not for sending a private email or to be *mocked* for being volatile. Reprimanded, yes, but not belittled.

Pains me to take you to task, Jesse, because you're one of the fairest and squarest folks around here IMO. [aged Katherine Hepburn] "You're my knight in shining armor..." [/aged Katherine Hepburn]

I ain't mocking you; I'm reprimanding.

(And I still think teachers and truckers are underappreciated necessary professions in our society, and the thought of doing either of them I find daunting.)

Posts: 23297 | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
KnightEnder
unregistered


 - posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think Fun is the only person here I couldn't get to take a swing at me. [Smile]

KE

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kenmeer livermaile
Member
Member # 2243

 - posted      Profile for kenmeer livermaile   Email kenmeer livermaile       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That's because she wears high-heel stiletto boots. You wouldn't know what hit you.

You'd just know *WHERE*. [LOL] [LOL] [LOL] [LOL]

Posts: 23297 | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
vulture
Member
Member # 84

 - posted      Profile for vulture   Email vulture   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Daruma28:
Ahh yes Ev, your self-regard and martyrdom complex is quite hilarious.

What you fail to understand is that you ARE PAID WHAT YOU ARE WORTH because a salary is based on the laws of supply and demand - i.e. becoming a cog in the public education machine is NOT THAT DIFFICULT to attain, compared to other professions.

And yet there is an ongoing shortage of teachers, because the pay is so crap. The laws of supply and demand ought to mean that that means that teacher salaries rise until there are enough teachers, but you know what - that has never happened. Why could this be? Because state schools don't have the ability to charge parents for sending their kids there perhaps? Because they have to make do with a fixed budget unloaded upon them from on high?

On the other hand, the free market does operate in private schools, where they can pay as much as they need to to fill positions, charge the parents what they need to to balance their books, and parents have to decide if the fees are worth paying to get the education they want (and they have to pay the premium of not getting the state school financing too, not just the excess above state school level).

Funnily enough, there isn't a teacher shortage in private schools, and salaries are higher. (In fact in the UK, private schools contain 7% of pupils and 14% of teachers... which means that state schools are operating with half as many teachers per pupil as private ones).

So it looks to me like teachers in state schools are in fact being badly underpaid, and that supply and demand isn't being allowed to operate because of government funding.

Posts: 1768 | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
OceanRunner
Member
Member # 5605

 - posted      Profile for OceanRunner   Email OceanRunner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Firefighters are definitely respected for what they do, and for excellent reason. However, I do not feel that my profession earns the same respect.
I don't feel that my profession earns much respect, either (a certain amount of sympathy, but not necessarily much respect). I don't see where that concept is necessarily tied to salary, though. While I wouldn't turn down more pay, I think I'm paid adequately for what I do.

I don't understand why "lack of respect for the teaching of the profession" and "teachers are underpaid" are always correlated.

Posts: 740 | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 5 pages: 1  2  3  4  5   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
UBB Code™ Images not permitted.
Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Ornery.org Front Page

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.1