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Author Topic: Hannah Montana scandal
scifibum
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link

Evidently some kinda-sorta racy photo of Miley Cyrus (aka Hannah Montana on some tv show) is making some moms upset because it sexualizes their little girls' role model/celeb hero/favorite Disney product.

I'm not overly freaked out about the picture. I'd call it inappropriate, but not scandalous. However, it's another piece of evidence that in some ways, our society just can't wait for girls to grow up before regarding them as sexual objects. It's easy to understand - secondary sexual characteristics appear, and certain responses are predictable - but it's disappointing that there isn't more cultural restraint.

But these mothers are even more disappointing.

I catch references to Miley Cyrus from time to time and it's been my impression that her famous dad and Disney management have created yet another bland plastic pop star for kids to waste their allowances on. Nothing new or interesting. I hadn't seen her perform or anything until she guest-starred on American Idol last week (or the week before?). I saw part of her performance and I noticed that like most pop singers, she has little elements of her movements (not what I'd call 'dancing') that appear designed to look sexy and provocative. I thought, at the time, how it was inappropriate for someone her age to be performing that way. How Disney has lost any semblance of child like innocence in their products (did they ever have it? I kind of think they did in the Bambi/Cinderella/Sleeping Beauty era. Could have just been me). But it was clear to me after about 10 seconds that she was a sexualized product. That her sexuality was a part of the performance.

So I wonder what these mothers saw. When they take their kids to the concerts, or let them watch Cyrus on TV all the time, was it just the right amount of sexuality? And the photo goes beyond that right amount?

Seriously, what's going on with this photo that is so much different from her pop music act?

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Jesse
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They already ate Brittany and expelled the resulting waste, and now they're hungry?
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canadian
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Fabricated Controversy

Everyone wins

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msquared
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Her family was at the shot and saw all the pics that were going to be used. Now they complain.

I know that alot of teen age girls can't wait to grow up. They do these glamour shots that make them look 22 instead of 15.

Is this any different than Brooke Shields was in the late 70's?

msquared

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kenmeer livermaile
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Celebrities Celebrate Sexuality: ccs

They sell the ccsizzle but we get upset when they show us their ccsteak.

Weird.

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canadian
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"What!? She posed for suggestive photos? I'm outraged, where's the link?"
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kenmeer livermaile
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I wanna see her titties too!
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Colin JM0397
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Hanna who?
I haven't had TV service for a year now and I grow smarter every day [Wink]

Though, I do admit to knowing who she is now after I googled her last week.

Either way, so what.

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Jesse
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"Is this any different than Brooke Shields was in the late 70's?"

I'd say showing a little back is a long way from full frontal nudity.

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JoshCrow
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This is a non-issue. Come on... where was the outrage over racy pics of a 16-year old Angeline Jolie that surfaced? This is nothing new.

Same old, same old. People wanna see skin, magazines oblige, lines get crossed and the media consumes itself like Pizza the Hutt.

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Daruma28
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Oh come on folks....it's patently obvious. The one way to guarantee maximum publicity for the magazine is to manufacture this so called "controversy."

I'm not overly freaked out about the picture. I'd call it inappropriate, but not scandalous. However, it's another piece of evidence that in some ways, our society just can't wait for girls to grow up before regarding them as sexual objects.

Perhaps it's because society has created an artificial construct called "adolescence" which purposely delays maturity. Up until one hundred years ago, sexual maturity was considered adulthood with all of the attendant responsibilities and freedoms that entailed.

Most 15 year old girls throughout most of human history were already married and either pregnant or having their second child already.

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scifibum
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Ok, I'll buy that it's a manufactured controversy.

The other thing I want to say is that adolescence may be a social construct, but mental and behavioral maturity are definitely affected by its existence - today's 15 year olds really are more like children than the 15 year olds of 1728. And adolescent celebrities offer plenty of examples of what happens when you don't allow kids to grow up gradually.

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TommySama
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I have a friend who dated a girl who was like 1 year younger then him. Naturally, my other friends and I brutally harassed and humiliated him for it. One of our running gags was his unhealthy obsession with Hannah Montana.

We mailed him a copy of the Hannah Montana movie, a doll, and a bottle of lotion and tissue paper for his birthday. He was less then pleased.

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kenmeer livermaile
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I would be too. Tissue paper? I like chamois.
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Jesse
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I prefer black velvet paintings of Elvis for the wiping up.

Anyone noticing a trend in how things go when the little cuties let someone besides Disney make cash off of them?

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Omega M.
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quote:
Originally posted by TommySama:

I have a friend who dated a girl who was like 1 year younger then him. Naturally, my other friends and I brutally harassed and humiliated him for it. One of our running gags was his unhealthy obsession with Hannah Montana.

We mailed him a copy of the Hannah Montana movie, a doll, and a bottle of lotion and tissue paper for his birthday. He was less then pleased.

What's unusual about dating someone one year younger than you are? That's effectively the same age as you.
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RickyB
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15 is the least of it. While I'm entirely comfortable with an age of consent of 16, I'm fully aware that quite a few young women are ready - in a raw, dangerous way - before that. History is, among other things, a continuing lesson on the futility of trying to seriously repress human sexuality. (Channel, yes. Set boundaries for, yes. For it is equally unsustainable for sex to be everywhere. In a commune, maybe and generally not even then for long. Not on anything larger.)

Anyway, what I'm saying is that a 15 yr old dressed to fock is inappropriate. It's the 10 and 11 year olds I have a serious problem with.

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Daruma28
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So scifi...you think immaturity in teenagers is a good thing? I disagree...and I say that as a guy who avoided adulthood as long as possible - I stayed in college until I was 26!

I think using celebrities as a measuring stick for promoting the construct of extended adolescence as beneficial is not a good idea. Fame and all that it entails has unique circumstances that don't apply to the average person growing up in America.

Furthermore, I no longer think it is disgusting for grown men to find provocative photos of 15 year old females appealing...nor is it as outrageous as some people make it out to be (I'll give the caveat that it's natural for a Father of a 15 year old female to be outraged at an older man leering at his daughter...)

Sexual attraction is the natural, biological phenomenon that is responsible for the continuation of the human species.

Is it REALLY so abhorrent that a 15 year old female would be fully sexually mature and males would find that appealing? Why is a man that feels a completely natural attraction to a sexually mature female considered deviant?

[ April 29, 2008, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: Daruma28 ]

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kenmeer livermaile
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When I was 17 I exchanged virginities with a 15-year old girl.

We were both quite happy to do so.

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scifibum
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Daruma, I didn't say there was anything deviant or abnormal about adults finding post pubescent individuals appealing.

I do think that trying to make individual exceptions to the general rule that today's 15 year olds are immature and stupid is likely to cause problems for those excepted individuals. Because they are not likely to be capable of handling it.

For a 15 year old to be deliberately sexed up to enhance her sexual appeal is a bad idea, IMO, since she is most likely a mental child.

Your other point is taken: celebrity pressures don't make a good general example.

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RickyB
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Any sane system of age of consent has to be sliding. a 17 year old consensually with a 15 year old? no punishment really. definitely not the first time it actually even gets to any court. 27 year old? A-hem.

And I agree with Daruma - it's not "outrageous" it's natural - and off limits. It's natural to be turned on by your hot sister. But it's been a tenet of almost every civilization worth jack for 6 thousand years or so that you don't do that.

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TommySama
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Ricky, that's stupid. 17 is waay old enough to be sleeping with a 27 year old. Some 17 year olds might not be able to handle it. But I've definitely known quite a few girls who were/are in successful relationships with that large of an age gap. (For instance the last girl I dated/respected started going out with a 27 year old when she was 17 after I broke up with her. They've been going out for like a year now.)

27 year old banging a 15 year old? Maybe.


"What's unusual about dating someone one year younger than you are? That's effectively the same age as you."

Nothing at all. In fact, at the time I pointed out to those guys that I was going out with a girl who was a year and a half younger then me, and 1'1" shorter then me. It wasn't the relationship, it was the fact that he's the guy we all make fun of. Obviously you've never been a teenage boy [Wink]

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philnotfil
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I was a little amused by the timing of this. Just a couple of weeks ago Conde Nast Portfolio had an interesting article about Disney and Hannah Montana.

portfolio.com

There was an interesting quote near the end of it.
quote:
“For Miley Cyrus to be a ‘good girl’ is now a business decision for her,” Marsh says. “Parents have invested in her a godliness. If she violates that trust, she won’t get it back.”

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RickyB
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"27 year old banging a 15 year old? Maybe."

That's what I was referring to. A 17 year old is over the age of consent in most places.

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RickyB
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"I was going out with a girl who was a year and a half younger then me, and 1'1" shorter then me"

are you one of those obnoxiously tall dudes, or is she tiny?

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OceanRunner
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quote:
17 is waay old enough to be sleeping with a 27 year old.
Not that I'm necessarily judgmental for the general public, but... were it my daughter, 17 is old enough for a 27-year-old to get his nuts cut off.

There's nothing strange about an older guy looking at a young girl - say a 27-yr-old looking at a 17-yr-old - but there's generally something wrong with a guy who needs to be with someone that much less mature than he is. Even with men's much, much slower rate of maturity. [Wink]

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Jesse
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Before you answer him, be aware that Ricky is a lot shorter than he acts, Tommy.

____________________________

The 17 year old could be really mature, rather than the 27 year old being really immature.

Still, ick.

My wife was 18 years and three minutes old when I got her, and I was 23, but that made it a lot easier to browbeat her into spending her life with a misogynist.
____________________________________

Ricky, it's 18 in most of the US.

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TommySama
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"Before you answer him, be aware that Ricky is a lot shorter than he acts, Tommy."

I figured he was compensating for something with that intellect ;-)


"are you one of those obnoxiously tall dudes, or is she tiny?"

Little bit of both. I'm 6'2", she is 5'1". We couldn't really kiss and do other things at the same time.

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msquared
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For the record my brother is 6'5" and his wife is 5'1". You should see the wedding video. The guy had to back up another 5 feet to get them both in the frame.

msquared

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flydye45
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Shouldn't we have a "Yawn" smilie for something like this?
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kenmeer livermaile
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Actually, I was thinking something more like this:


(*)(*)

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flydye45
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You think small.

( * )( * )

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kenmeer livermaile
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I am a narrow-minded fool for sure.
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TommySama
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He was talking about 15 year old girls mosquito bites, methinks.
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kenmeer livermaile
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But the mosquitoes were HUGE!!! (And someone had to suck out the venom [Wink] )

[ May 01, 2008, 02:23 AM: Message edited by: kenmeer livermaile ]

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0Megabyte
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Ahh.

You know, a 17 year old I know was dating a 25 year old.

It was... well, considering the girl, her maturity level, and whatnot, it was basically at the edge of propriety. Yeah, technically she was too young, but whatever. In her individual case, it was no big deal.

Granted, I was still grossed out by it.

Here's an interesting rule of thumb. Where I foudn this, I have no idea.

(Your Age)/2 + 7. That's the reasonable limit of dating.

For a 20 year old like me, that means 17 is the lowest. When I'm 22, 18 is the lowest. At 24, 19, and so on.

But that's just a rule of thumb, and in reality even that's a bit more conservative than, um, reality.

Jesse: what was all that about browbeating and mysogyny?

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LetterRip
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That formula is from the XKCD comic,

http://xkcd.com/314/

LetterRip

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Brian
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Louisa May Alcott mentioned that formula way before xkcd did. I doubt she invented it, though.

[ May 01, 2008, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: Brian ]

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0Megabyte
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Ha! Yes! That's where I found it!

I'd totally forgotten. It was like one of those things that you pick up, but lose the source to, but utilize it nonetheless.

Either way, it suggests something. I'm not sure what, but something about things influencing you, and which things, and whatnot... I'm too groggy to think clearly about it, though.

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flydye45
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That's funny. Without any knowledge of the formula, I figured I wouldn't have anything in common with a girl below the age of 28 (except pure lust) which works out about the same.
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