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Author Topic: So, just to clarify....
TomDavidson
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Obama is not:

1) A Messianic figure
2) Running out of money
3) Teaching kindergarteners to masturbate
4) A Muslim
5) A surfer

Hopefully this clears things up.

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DonaldD
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ooh, let's do Palin now! (Does McCain even exist anymore?)
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Wayward Son
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Yes, McCain still exists, but apparently he's had Palin surgically attached to him. [Smile]
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G2
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
Obama is not:

1) A Messianic figure
2) Running out of money
3) Teaching kindergarteners to masturbate
4) A Muslim
5) A surfer

Hopefully this clears things up.

However, Obama is:

1) Not a Messianic figure anymore.
2) Not meeting fund raising goals and being outspent.
3) Voted to approve teaching kindergarteners about sex and contraception
4) Probably a Christian
5) A terrible surfer

Hopefully this clears things up. [Wink]

[ September 15, 2008, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: G2 ]

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Straygaldwyr
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Obama is not...

Going to be the next President...hee hee

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Wayward Son
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quote:
Not a Messianic figure anymore.
The only idiots who thought Obama was a Messianic figure were McCain voters. [LOL]
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Everard
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Lets see... Obama shattered his fund-raising records by 20 million. This, apparently, qualifies as "not meeting fund raising goals."

Voted for a bill that has requirements for sex ed that must be met by grade 12. This, apparently, qualifies as teaching kindergartners about sex and contraception.

Has attended church for decades, and is pretty outspoken about his christian beliefs. This, apparently, makes him "probably a christian,"

and... was never a messianic figure to anyone other then people who wanted to claim others thought he was a messianic figure. This, apparently, qualifies as having once been a messianic figure.

I have no idea on the surfing, so its POSSIBLE that g2 got a 20% on that quiz measuring how unbiased republican test takers are.

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Straygaldwyr
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However there is an interesting flux in play right now, some of the trackers show that while he will lose the popular vote handily he might still pull off an electorial win...I wonder what the Democrat response to that situation will be? After eight years of whining it might almost be worth it to see the hypocrisy walk naked and proud...

[ September 15, 2008, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: Straygaldwyr ]

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Wayward Son
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Fortunately, the conservative upswell calling for reform of the Electorial College will make it well worth it. [Smile]
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JoshCrow
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quote:
Originally posted by Straygaldwyr:
However there is an interesting flux in play right now, some of the trackers show that while he will lose the popular vote handily he might still pull off an electorial win...I wonder what the Democrat response to that situation will be? After eight years of whining it might almost be worth it to see the hypocrisy walk naked and proud...

We saw what it was like just over two weeks ago, actually, when the party complaining that the opposing candidate lacked experience decided to tap someone even LESS experienced as ready to lead because it was convenient to do so.

I've noticed the Republicans have stopped attacking Obama on this front anymore - how come? It can only mean that it was never really a serious reservation in the first place.

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DonaldD
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50 days and counting, 50 days and counting...
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JoshCrow
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quote:
Originally posted by Wayward Son:
Fortunately, the conservative upswell calling for reform of the Electorial College will make it well worth it. [Smile]

If indeed it does play out that way, I for one hope the entire system gets overhauled to be a straightforward popular vote as a bi-partisan effort. I would hope to see the Democrats willingness on this front even while in power (something I wouldn't expect from a Republican adminstration, and certainly not the current one).
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rightleft22
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Isn’t there already enough naked hypocrisy “walking proud” in this farce? [Frown]
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Wayward Son
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Are you kidding, rightleft22? We could have a freaking parade with the hypocrisy from both sides. [LOL]
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DonaldD
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'rightleft... could have a parade' tee hee! [Smile]
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Gaoics79
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quote:
However there is an interesting flux in play right now, some of the trackers show that while he will lose the popular vote handily he might still pull off an electorial win...I wonder what the Democrat response to that situation will be? After eight years of whining it might almost be worth it to see the hypocrisy walk naked and proud...
This would be a win-win for me. I'd get to see my favoured candidate (Obama) win, and I'd simultaneously get to see the "Bush stole the 2000 election" morons squirm as they try to rationalize Obama's legitimacy, in spite of him losing the popular vote. In fact, it could be just the thing this country needs to heal from the 2000 election fiasco finally. It will sure do wonders to shut the whiners and sore-losers from 2000 up finally.
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Everard
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" I'd get to see my favoured candidate (Obama) win, and I'd simultaneously get to see the "Bush stole the 2000 election" morons squirm as they try to rationalize Obama's legitimacy,"

Most of the "bush stealing the election," was about florida and the counting, NOT the idiocy of the electoral college. Now, if you can find people who said he's not the real president because he didn't get the majority of the votes, you can hammer them. But the two different issues are distinct.

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Jesse
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Sure, if you're dealing with the small segment of morons who thought winning the popular vote meant winning the presidency...rather than people who had issues with the horrific corruption and fraudulent caging in Florida.
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Gaoics79
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quote:
Most of the "bush stealing the election," was about florida and the counting, NOT the idiocy of the electoral college. Now, if you can find people who said he's not the real president because he didn't get the majority of the votes, you can hammer them. But the two different issues are distinct.
Fahh... The issues are related, as far as I'm concerned. Bush's failure to win the popular vote was always the exclamation point at the end of any sentence beginning with "Florida was rigged". Take that away from them, and the whole argument just deflates.

Incidentally, the Florida vote was not stolen. It was lost because alot of geriatric Jews accidentally voted for Pat Buchanan instead of Al Gore. Sad, but not really an example of vote rigging.

I've heard the other arguments on this point, and they sound like typical spin-doctoring bull**** to me. Maybe if they had done a few dozen more recounts and played around with the hanging chads a little more, Gore might have gotten the result he wanted. What can you do? Bush won. Get over it.

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Everard
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"Fahh... The issues are related, as far as I'm concerned. "


So this is about what YOU think other people think. Not what they actually think. Got it.

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LinuxFreakus
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Exactly, [not] counting the votes, and vote fraud were the main complaints... there were those advocating tearing up the whole electoral college process but I think that part is probably fine as long as everything is carried out properly then fair is fair and rules are rules.

quote:
Originally posted by Everard:
" I'd get to see my favoured candidate (Obama) win, and I'd simultaneously get to see the "Bush stole the 2000 election" morons squirm as they try to rationalize Obama's legitimacy,"

Most of the "bush stealing the election," was about florida and the counting, NOT the idiocy of the electoral college. Now, if you can find people who said he's not the real president because he didn't get the majority of the votes, you can hammer them. But the two different issues are distinct.


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Jesse
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Bogus caging was always the biggest issue to me.

What with it being done at the orders of Bush's State Campaign Chair, and all.

It's idiotic that we allow people on a Government payroll to moonlight on political campaigns. I recognize that's another issue.

I don't think it'll happen, though. All major tracking polls are showing McCains bump subsiding.

[ September 15, 2008, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: Jesse ]

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JoshCrow
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Jason, as much as I understand your desire to stick-it to the sore losers, and there sure are plenty of those, I also think that the complex issue of Florida's 2000 vote is not to be simply shrugged off as "whining" (and this is coming from someone who has nothing but contempt and disdain for conspiracy theories). If Obama fails the popular vote but wins the election, it will be just another example of how broken and unrepresentative the system is, and this time it will just trigger complaining from the other side of the fence.
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The Drake
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Problems in counting fairly... like only asking for a recount in favorable counties but not others? Turning to the US Supreme Court to interfere in the affairs of Florida in the first place? That debacle was hardly a shining moment for either candidate/party.
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kmbboots
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My biggest complaint was Katherine Harris and ChoicePoint "cleansing" the voter rolls of thousands of likely deocratic voters.
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MattP
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quote:
Fahh... The issues are related, as far as I'm concerned. Bush's failure to win the popular vote was always the exclamation point at the end of any sentence beginning with "Florida was rigged". Take that away from them, and the whole argument just deflates.
The two ideas were often in the same rant, but the complaints about the popular vote were tried, in my mind, to Bush's claim to have a "mandate" from the people, not to Bush winning the election.
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G2
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quote:
Originally posted by Wayward Son:
quote:
Not a Messianic figure anymore.
The only idiots who thought Obama was a Messianic figure were McCain voters. [LOL]
By "Messianic" I was referring to the personality cult that grew up around him during the primary season. It was kind of a fad to be on the Obama band wagon. Things like that never sustain over the long haul.

quote:
Originally posted by Everard:
Lets see... Obama shattered his fund-raising records by 20 million. This, apparently, qualifies as "not meeting fund raising goals."

The goal was $100 million a month. I know they're big numbers but, yes, $66 million is less than $100 million and means he did not meet his fund raising goals.
quote:
Originally posted by Everard:

Voted for a bill that has requirements for sex ed that must be met by grade 12. This, apparently, qualifies as teaching kindergartners about sex and contraception.

That's not what the bill he voted for says. I encourage you to read the bill.

quote:
Originally posted by Everard:
Has attended church for decades, and is pretty outspoken about his christian beliefs. This, apparently, makes him "probably a christian,"

The 'probably' qualifier was intentional due to Obama's support for infanticide. It's not a very Christian concept. The church he attended for decades ... you really want to bring Wright into this again?
quote:
Originally posted by Everard:

was never a messianic figure to anyone other then people who wanted to claim others thought he was a messianic figure. This, apparently, qualifies as having once been a messianic figure.

See my response to Tom above.
quote:
Originally posted by Everard:

I have no idea on the surfing, so its POSSIBLE that g2 got a 20% on that quiz measuring how unbiased republican test takers are.

Apparently I know more about him than you do ...
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Everard
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"That's not what the bill he voted for says. I encourage you to read the bill."

Ah yes. Forgot who I'm talking to.

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LinuxFreakus
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quote:
Originally posted by Everard:
"That's not what the bill he voted for says. I encourage you to read the bill."

Ah yes. Forgot who I'm talking to.

Heh, I guess its like the bible, they tell me you aren't supposed to take it literally, you have to interpret and come to your own conclusions [Wink]
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LinuxFreakus
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^^ Perhaps that was a low blow... I apologize in advance.
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DonaldD
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Actually, you're apologizing after the fact - unless it's in advance of an upcoming spanking...
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LinuxFreakus
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I was thinking of the latter...

quote:
Originally posted by DonaldD:
Actually, you're apologizing after the fact - unless it's in advance of an upcoming spanking...


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JoshCrow
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G2, arguing that Obama supports "infanticide" and teaching sex to kindergardeners is as outrageous as if I said a death penalty advocate "supports murdering people" or a gun-control opponent "supports Columbine-style shootings". You wouldn't love to see your own viewpoints so barbarically oversimplified, would you?

If you truly followed through with painting half the country simplistically with a loaded term like "babykillers", you should be out there in your pickup truck right now trying to shoot as many liberuhls as you can before you get arrested.

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G2
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Josh, look up BAIPA and see for yourself.
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JoshCrow
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quote:
Originally posted by G2:
Josh, look up BAIPA and see for yourself.

G2, we've been over this in another thread, but to sum things up:

FactCheck

In short, while you may object to his pro-choice stance as many would, it is a gross oversimplification to try to paint him as "supporting infanticide". Nobody in their right minds wants to kill a baby - but not everybody agrees on the subtleties of a botched abortion procedure. Trying to turn the latter into the former is disingenuous. This is NOT a case of a happy gurgling baby going under the knife senselessly, as you would have the impression be.

[ September 15, 2008, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: JoshCrow ]

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JoshCrow
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G2, from the link above:

quote:
What we can say is that many other people – perhaps most – think of "infanticide" as the killing of an infant that would otherwise live. And there are already laws in Illinois, which Obama has said he supports, that protect these children even when they are born as the result of an abortion. Illinois compiled statute 720 ILCS 510/6 states that physicians performing abortions when the fetus is viable must use the procedure most likely to preserve the fetus' life; must be attended by another physician who can care for a born-alive infant; and must "exercise the same degree of professional skill, care and diligence to preserve the life and health of the child as would be required of a physician providing immediate medical care to a child born alive in the course of a pregnancy termination which was not an abortion." Failure to do any of the above is considered a felony.

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G2
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Obama claims it would have curtailed abortion rights and that has been proven false since the exact same bill was enacted at the federal level without curtailing abortion rights.

An infant, born alive and living outside the womb - allowed to die from lack of attention. Obama objects to a law that would afford it status as a human being and all the rights that pertain to being human. Obama, as factcheck shows, has a variety of shifting defenses to this. In fact, factcheck points out a number of issues with Obama's position on this.

So if not "supporting infanticide" what would you call it?

[ September 15, 2008, 05:52 PM: Message edited by: G2 ]

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TomDavidson
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quote:
the exact same bill was enacted at the federal level without curtailing abortion rights
Has the bill had an effect at all?
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Finvarra
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G2 -

"Obama claims it would have curtailed abortion rights and that has been proven false since the exact same bill was enacted at the federal level without curtailing abortion rights."

From the link: "It's state law, not federal law, that actually regulates the practice of abortion. So a bill defining a pre-viable fetus born as the result of abortion as a human could directly affect the practice of abortion at the state level, but not at the federal level, the campaign argues."

It's true that the obama campaign originally said it was different wording. Which is strange. On the hand I think its a bit more believable that he was concerned with protecting abortion rights than that he just doesn't care about infanticide.

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