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Author Topic: Questions you'd like to ask Obama:
DaveS
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quote:
My examples were quite specific and quite earnest. You refused to answer *any* of them.
Ruo all field, no hit.
quote:
Where's the questions for McCain thread?
I posted some here and elsewhere that I don't want to go collect and repost. I think it's safe to answer them in this thread, since it hasn't been used for the purpose expressed in the thread title.
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RickyB
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"RickyB, correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't you LIVED in the Middle East for many years?"

22 of my 38 years so far...

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ruo
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:

I trust you will open your eyes and your mind to entertaining what I have said here and will investigate each and every point before you object to anything I've said.

Unless you want to demonstrate how someone reacts when they are arguing from a bubble of self-delusion.

#1: The Middle East has been a "swamp" as long as I've been alive. It continues to be a swamp. The removal of Saddam has changed the names, but I see no evidence that it has dried out the ground.

#2: I do remember this. This is one of the many things that disappoints me about the Democratic Party, but at least makes me proud of my current Senator.

#3: I'm not sure how you can, with #1, argue that the removal of Saddam has made the Middle East less of a swamp and then, two points later, say that I don't realize how important a "neutralizing force" Saddam was against Iran.

#4: I don't think Iran's ideology is particularly virulent. It's certainly not cancerous. It's hostile, but it's not catching. It is, in fact, largely self-defeating within two generations.

#5: Oh, you must be right. I look around for freedom and liberty and tolerance here in America, and now and then completely fail to recognize it. I'm pretty sure they're beautiful, though, and I'll know them when I see them.

#6: America has many traditions. Spending blood and treasure to free enslaved people is not, however, something I would consider an American tradition.

#7: I will freely concede that I disagree with you about the hypothetical results of a variety of hypothetical actions that we might hypothetically have hypothesized about. [Smile]

#8: I actually believe quite strongly that people, once they are given a taste of self-determination, will continue to choose self-determination. I do not believe that it always remains possible for people to successfully remain free once given a "taste" of freedom, however. Neither do I believe that we are, with our current efforts, handing out samples of particularly succulent or flavorful freedom.

#9: I'm pretty familiar with Iran, actually, and I can guarantee you that the current leadership of Iran is not particularly interested in bringing about the apocalypse. They would like to wipe Israel off the map, though, so the body of your point -- that Iran poses a pressing threat to Israel -- is certainly valid.

#10: There are many things which might spoil my way of life. Massive financial collapse caused by endless, dissolute wars ranks highly; the odds of a Christian fundamentalist government comes in a pretty close second. Unafforable healthcare and the loss of Social Security following the disintegration of my private investments is more likely, but also more survivable. The odds that anything Iran does is going to end the world in nuclear war, though, is way down near the bottom. I'm considerably less scared of Iran than I am of China, and I'm considerably less scared of China than I am of the Bible Belt.

I am in the unusual position of feeling so encouraged by any signs of mutual accord that I'm inclined to demure from mentioning those areas where we don't yet agree.

I am very pleased by your post, TomDavidson.

Thank you! [Smile]

One thing that I should mention, however, is important to those who have little context by which to assess the prospect of our government becoming religious.

I'm a Christian. A failed, non-practicing Christian, but a Christian, nonetheless.

And I can tell you that there is ZERO chance of this government becoming a theocracy.

ZERO CHANCE.

ZERO.

Even Christians would rise up in opposition to that. By having a secular government we all are free to worship as we wish. Most everyone understands this. And just as you don't get upset when your young toddler son calls you a "poo-poo head" few Americans get really bent out of shape at the signs of evangelical Christians. They make noise and do have some influence on voting. And some elected officials give voice to their personal religious feelings. Though their hearts are in the right place their efforts to apply religion to our government except to help open people's hearts to Jesus, is misguided.

Here's a description of a book, "God in the White House: A History: How Faith Shaped the Presidency from John F. Kennedy to George W. Bush"


quote:
How did we go from John F. Kennedy declaring that religion should play no role in the elections to Bush saying, "I believe that God wants me to be president"?

Historian Randall Balmer takes us on a tour of presidential religiosity in the last half of the twentieth century—from Kennedy's 1960 speech that proposed an almost absolute wall between American political and religious life to the soft religiosity of Lyndon B. Johnson's Great Society; from Richard Nixon's manipulation of religion to fit his own needs to Gerald Ford's quiet stoicism; from Jimmy Carter's introduction of evangelicalism into the mainstream to Ronald Reagan's co-option of the same group; from Bill Clinton's covert way of turning religion into a non-issue to George W. Bush's overt Christian messages, Balmer reveals the role religion has played in the personal and political lives of these American presidents.

Americans were once content to disregard religion as a criterion for voting, as in most of the modern presidential elections before Jimmy Carter.But today's voters have come to expect candidates to fully disclose their religious views and to deeply illustrate their personal relationship to the Almighty. God in the White House explores the paradox of Americans' expectation that presidents should simultaneously trumpet their religious views and relationship to God while supporting the separation of church and state. Balmer tells the story of the politicization of religion in the last half of the twentieth century, as well as the "religionization" of our politics. He reflects on the implications of this shift, which have reverberated in both our religious and political worlds, and offers a new lens through which to see not only these extraordinary individuals, but also our current political situation.

http://www.harpercollins.com/books/9780060734053/God_in_the_White_House_A_History/index.aspx

And anyone who is leery of voting for McCain for an unreasonable fear of Christianity in the Oval Office should be reminded that Barack Obama has tried with all his might to convince any doubters that he is a Christian.

Does your comment mean you don't believe him?

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kenmeer livermaile
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TomD: your lib-plant theory is wrong, I'd say, eh?
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ruo
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quote:
Originally posted by beefprime:
quote:
It distresses me to realize you believe the questions regarding Obama's mysteries fall into the realm of Sci-Fi.

Until you are able to recognize the importance of character, experience and judgment in a president your vote could be just as meaningful as a vote for Ewok Elf Lordship.

I might as well vote for Obama then, since he's apparently a black militant communist secret muslim programmed in Indonesia to destroy the American Dream to further the goals of Islamic fundamentalists.

All of this is just as much fiction as Marvin the Martian or the Ewok Elf Lordship.

The options are not limited here to:

A. Obama is the Messiah

B. Obama is a "black militant communist secret muslim programmed in Indonesia to destroy the American Dream to further the goals of Islamic fundamentalists."

There should be AT LEAST one more option.

C. Obama has exhibited enough warning signs to make us take a step back and demand more information from him.

And because this seems an unlikely prospect we must consider him an unknown quantity.

And if you are the kind of person who would eat or drink something without knowing what it was, or if you would allow someone to inject something in you that you had questions about or if you would have unprotected sex or if you would believe everything a used car salesman told you then I suppose Obama's candidacy is just fine as far as you are concerned.

This is the only chance we get to practice quality control on the occupant of the White House.

For years we have heard that American cars weren't as well built as German or Japanese autos because we had lower standards of quality.

Do you think that is true and do you feel there is any connection between our standards for choosing a president in the case of Obama, and the lower perceived quality of the cars America builds?

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cherrypoptart
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> Ben


> Given that there exists Islamic tradition saying children of a Muslim are considered to be Muslim, and that the prescribed Koranic penalty for leaving Islam is death, regardless of the religion, how do you as a Christian address this scenario personally, and how will you handle this as president, when dealing with countries that enshrine sharia and Islam into their laws? No gotcha question intended here, as my assumption is that Obama is Christian, just how does he deal with that scenario?

I like that question a lot. It seems like Obama is really reaching out to Muslims. Is he accepting them as they are? Or is there any part of him that would like to see some liberalization from them? I'd ask Obama if he thought it was too much to ask prominent Muslim clerics, whoever the body of current "rulemakers" are (or whoever the people he is talking to are who are representing Muslim interests), if there was any way they could change the rule about converting from Islam resulting in a death sentence according to Islam. Change that. Make it public that it has changed. And allow people the religious freedom to safely act on that change. Muslims in America seem all about religious freedom. I'd like to see it.


Would that be too much to ask?

[ October 13, 2008, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: cherrypoptart ]

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KnightEnder
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Questions I'd like to ask Obama?

What's your favorite movie? Band? Color?

KE

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Aris Katsaris
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Cherry, I don't understand your usage of the word "scenario" there. You mention two facts about Islamic tradition. What scenario are you talking about however? Other countries enshrining this Islamic tradition into law -- allied countries, enemy countries, neutral trade partners? Random priests urging death to apostates inside America, outside it?

In short I can't understand anything about your question. You're asking him to respond to a scenario but aren't actually describing a scenario, merely mention some facts about Islamic tradition.

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Aris Katsaris
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Here's the question I'd like to ask: "Both you and McCain have indicated your willingness for NATO Membership Action Plans for Ukraine, partly so as to protect it from Russian aggression. Do you have a back-up plan to ensure Ukraine's security in the case that this Membership action plan is vetoed again by other NATO allies, like Germany?"
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ruo
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quote:
Originally posted by Aris Katsaris:
Here's the question I'd like to ask: "Both you and McCain have indicated your willingness for NATO Membership Action Plans for Ukraine, partly so as to protect it from Russian aggression. Do you have a back-up plan to ensure Ukraine's security in the case that this Membership action plan is vetoed again by other NATO allies, like Germany?"

Great question.
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ruo
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quote:
Originally posted by Aris Katsaris:
quote:
Originally posted by ruo:
quote:
Originally posted by Aris Katsaris:
Ruo, you speak a lot about liberals living a fantasy, but it's usually not liberals who believe that the Flintstones is an accurate representation of prehistorical times.

It's usually not liberals who tend to believe things like "All death and evil came into the world when Eve ate a piece of fruit".

It wasn't a liberal president that looked deeply into Putin's eyes and saw a good soul.

And it wasn't liberals who pushed the fantasy of WMDs in Iraq.

It wasn't a liberal governor that had blessings done on her to protect her from witchcraft -- that was Sarah Palin. It wasn't a liberal governor that claims to have participated in an exorcism that cured a woman from cancer -- that was Bobby Jindal.

And compared to all of the above you contrast what? That liberals *disagree* with you on what the best course of action is regarding to Iraq?

Congrats, that is so much on the same level as the next face of the Republican Party, Bobby "I will perform an exorcism to cure you of cancer" Jindal.

Honestly, I've never seen a more delusional folk than American conservatives. Conservatives in other countries are actually halfway-sane even when one disagrees with them, but American conservatives have allied themselves with the religious nutjobs and the arrogant imperialists to drive themselves completely cuckoo.

I believe these are, largely, cynical arguments.

Isolate those you REALLY believe and I will answer them.

I believe in all of the statement in my above post. I believe American conservatives tend to have a much higher delusional percentage than liberals do for exactly all the reasons I highlighted above. Their acceptance of religious mythology as literal truth, their belief in being the actual instruments of God (either in righteous war or in exorcisms, it's fundamentally the same), their reduction of political power into interpersonal relationships and their usage of sheer instinct (do I like this fella, or don't I like him) to replace intellect when evaluating a person's worth.

My examples were quite specific and quite earnest. You refused to answer *any* of them.

Pardon me.

I was sincere in thinking some of those questions weren't.

I'l get back to you on answering them.

I promise.

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JoshCrow
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Ruo: There's a contradiction (or at least a disconnect) in your seeming desire to have Obama step forth and talk about certain key issues about himself and your stated distrust of him or what he has to say. I would ask you, out of genuine curiosity:

-what would or could Obama say that would convince you that he is not to be "feared"? Is there something he could actually do to persuade you? Or is your mind made up on him?

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cherrypoptart
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> Aris Katsaris

> In short I can't understand anything about your question. You're asking him to respond to a scenario but aren't actually describing a scenario, merely mention some facts about Islamic tradition.

OSC had a recent article not so long ago about the fact that according to Islam, the penalty for leaving Islam is death. I'd like to know if Obama is okay with that as it is or if he would challenge the Muslim community to change it.

One of the surest ways to defeat Islamo-fascists would be if people were allowed to convert out of or renounce Islam without fear of reprisal.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
I'd like to know if Obama is okay with that as it is or if he would challenge the Muslim community to change it.
Which Muslim community? You realize that the Muslim community in America already doesn't practice it, right?
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cherrypoptart
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They may not practice it, but have they emphatically renounced it?

I think that if they want to demand religious tolerance for themselves, they should renounce it. Clearly. In no uncertain terms. Very publicly.

Maybe they have already. Maybe I missed it...

It's one thing to put it on hold for a while until they have the strength to enforce it. It's another thing to have a reformation and change that tenant of Islam without a doubt.

-----------------------------------------

This would also tie into asking Obama about his status as an apostate Muslim deserving death by Islamic law for being born into Islam but being a Christian now. How does he feel about that?

Wouldn't he prefer that Islamic law be changed so that he doesn't have to live under a death sentence according to it?

Does he have any persuasive power to do talk people into changing it? He's all about change right? I'd like to see that change. I'd be very impressed. Even if he can't pull it off, shouldn't he at least ask for it? If he doesn't ask for it, does that mean it doesn't really bother him that much?

[ October 13, 2008, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: cherrypoptart ]

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DaveS
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quote:
Does he have any persuasive power to do talk people into changing it? He's all about change right? I'd like to see that change.
That's right. As a Christian American candidate for President in 2008, he should have the power to change 1500 years of law in a religion he doesn't belong to in a part of the world he has never lived in where people speak languages he doesn't know. What kind of leader is he, anyway?

Still waiting for the serious Ruo to answer my questions. Could it be that he's not serious?

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cherrypoptart
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At least he could ask them to take the death sentence off of him. But yeah, I guess maybe that would be asking too much.
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ruo
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quote:
Originally posted by JoshCrow:
Ruo: There's a contradiction (or at least a disconnect) in your seeming desire to have Obama step forth and talk about certain key issues about himself and your stated distrust of him or what he has to say. I would ask you, out of genuine curiosity:

-what would or could Obama say that would convince you that he is not to be "feared"? Is there something he could actually do to persuade you? Or is your mind made up on him?

I'm beyond the point of ever voting for him. There is absolutely no doubt that he is a sneak who tried to slip the Global Poverty Bill into being approved without anyone's knowledge. He is a stereotypical tax and spend big government liberal with radical Communist leanings. And like a young person of either sex who is too good looking for their own good and knows it, he will never be able to discipline himself to behave. And so his powers of persuasion would always give him the
ability to do damn near whatever he wanted.

But as far as believing he was innocent of the suspicions and allegations?

I'd have to hear what he said to know if he was being real. There's nothing I could say that he could say to convince me he was innocent. I'd have to hear it and think about it.

Ever watch The Sting or House of Games?

Good con men never give a tell. You have to make decisions on the basis of percentages.

The percentage of a con man or CONFIDENCE MAN telling the truth versus the liklihood of his telling you a lie is never clear cut. In real life you seldom have to make decisions based on less than 99% assurance that the facts are as they are known to you. And when the occasion arises when you are called upon to make a value decision seldom are the stakes very great.

And that is one of the hallmarks of a con game.

You are implicitly called upon to make a decision on a matter where you are seemingly able to gain greatly and your only decision is the initial one.

Are you in or not?

And once you decide you are in you are a co-conspirator.

And after the con is over you will realize you never had enough knowledge about the decision you were asked to make in the first place.

You were only asked to give the con man your confidence in exchange for getting what you wanted.

And when you agreed you were innocent.

But to stay true to the con you'd have to become dirty.

And there are many Obama supporters who are good, honest, decent people who will feel really sleazy and scummy and used after they realize what they gave up in exchange for what Obama actually delivers.

But don't believe me.

If he wins just mark my words.

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kenmeer livermaile
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"At least he could ask them to take the death sentence off of him. But yeah, I guess maybe that would be asking too much."

Not to mention granting them far too much power and importance, and being an example of negotiating without preconditions.

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ruo
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quote:
Originally posted by ruo:
quote:
Originally posted by Aris Katsaris:
quote:
Originally posted by ruo:
quote:
Originally posted by Aris Katsaris:
Ruo, you speak a lot about liberals living a fantasy, but it's usually not liberals who believe that the Flintstones is an accurate representation of prehistorical times.

It's usually not liberals who tend to believe things like "All death and evil came into the world when Eve ate a piece of fruit".

It wasn't a liberal president that looked deeply into Putin's eyes and saw a good soul.

And it wasn't liberals who pushed the fantasy of WMDs in Iraq.

It wasn't a liberal governor that had blessings done on her to protect her from witchcraft -- that was Sarah Palin. It wasn't a liberal governor that claims to have participated in an exorcism that cured a woman from cancer -- that was Bobby Jindal.

And compared to all of the above you contrast what? That liberals *disagree* with you on what the best course of action is regarding to Iraq?

Congrats, that is so much on the same level as the next face of the Republican Party, Bobby "I will perform an exorcism to cure you of cancer" Jindal.

Honestly, I've never seen a more delusional folk than American conservatives. Conservatives in other countries are actually halfway-sane even when one disagrees with them, but American conservatives have allied themselves with the religious nutjobs and the arrogant imperialists to drive themselves completely cuckoo.

I believe these are, largely, cynical arguments.

Isolate those you REALLY believe and I will answer them.

I believe in all of the statement in my above post. I believe American conservatives tend to have a much higher delusional percentage than liberals do for exactly all the reasons I highlighted above. Their acceptance of religious mythology as literal truth, their belief in being the actual instruments of God (either in righteous war or in exorcisms, it's fundamentally the same), their reduction of political power into interpersonal relationships and their usage of sheer instinct (do I like this fella, or don't I like him) to replace intellect when evaluating a person's worth.

My examples were quite specific and quite earnest. You refused to answer *any* of them.

Pardon me.

I was sincere in thinking some of those questions weren't.

I'l get back to you on answering them.

I promise.

quote:
Originally posted by Aris Katsaris:
Ruo, you speak a lot about liberals living a fantasy, but it's usually not liberals who believe that the Flintstones is an accurate representation of prehistorical times.
It's usually not liberals who tend to believe things like "All death and evil came into the world when Eve ate a piece of fruit".

This nation's government is secular. But it was only made that way based on the Christian orientation of the people at the time of our founding. Otherwise, according to John Adams or George Washington (I've forgotten which) this form of government is insufficient to guide the people.

For Sarah Palin to believe in the Biblical stroy of creation is consistent with the views of our forefathers.

Gotta like old school.

quote:
Originally posted by Aris Katsaris:
It wasn't a liberal president that looked deeply into Putin's eyes and saw a good soul.

No. It was a President attempting the most subtle and effective form of diplomacy possible. So subtle, in fact, that most people are unaware of the technique.

Have you ever had a person say in front of others how much they trust you? And have you ever noticed how hard you tried thereafter to live up to their estimation of you?

It's my belief that Bush was trying to keep Putin on our side by appealing to his desire to justify Bush's faith in him.

A brilliant technique, really. I believe he may have picked it up from his Dad, #41, when Putin, the elder Bush and GWB vacationed together at the family Kinnebunkport estate a couple years back. I may be mistaken, as to the timing.

quote:
Originally posted by Aris Katsaris:
And it wasn't liberals who pushed the fantasy of WMDs in Iraq.

WMD's were never the legal justification for the invasion. When Saddam signed the UN Cease Fire to stop the coalition forces from attacking his forces at will in 1991 the understanding was that if Saddam did not live up to the letter of those agreements the US as the chief adversary had every right to resume hostilities.

He didn't and so we did.

But not before we gave him every possible chance to abide by the agreements. And even when he failed at that we gave him every possible chance to find refuge in a neutral country, it would have spared his nation and spared his life.

He made the wrong choice.

And even then, if you look it up, Saddam was boasting that he had WMD's in the months and years before the invasion. He did this to keep his enemies from taking advantage of him, but still, Pres. Bush can't have ignored the possibility he wasn't bluffing.

quote:
Originally posted by Aris Katsaris:
It wasn't a liberal governor that had blessings done on her to protect her from witchcraft -- that was Sarah Palin. It wasn't a liberal governor that claims to have participated in an exorcism that cured a woman from cancer -- that was Bobby Jindal.

I had the leaders of my Church pray for me to help drive the urge to smoke from me. And guess what? Although I'd tried and failed several times, I finally quit for good and stayed quit. And it was easy. I've had NO urges for more than two years. Power of suggestion? Maybe. But I'd like to believe it was God's grace.

There are powers we still don't understand that exist on Earth and which exert an effect on us despite our technological knowledge. It is easy to conclude, in the absence of scientific evidence, that there is no God. But, in the absence of definitive answers about Obama's past you are millions of others are willing to buy into the Obama religion.

What is the difference?

And if you investigate the Exorcist phenomena behind the film from the 1970's and the other unexplained paranormal religious events that have been reported since then you will be hard pressed to say that there is no devil or Supreme Being.

And if you didn't know some people were Christians none of their beliefs would come into play and you'd just think they were nice people.

Well, guess what?

That is how America was, to a large degree, before prayer in the schools was outlawed in America in the early 1960's.

quote:
Originally posted by Aris Katsaris:
And compared to all of the above you contrast what? That liberals *disagree* with you on what the best course of action is regarding to Iraq?

No, that Conservatives separate our fantasies from reality. Liberals try to make their fantasies come true. Liberals try to act as though their fantasies are reality and they make decisions based on their self-delusion.

That's an unusual practice for Conservatives. But for Liberals it is an every day thing and though not universally true, it is characteristically true among Liberals across the board.

quote:
Originally posted by Aris Katsaris:
Congrats, that is so much on the same level as the next face of the Republican Party, Bobby "I will perform an exorcism to cure you of cancer" Jindal.
Honestly, I've never seen a more delusional folk than American conservatives. Conservatives in other countries are actually halfway-sane even when one disagrees with them, but American conservatives have allied themselves with the religious nutjobs and the arrogant imperialists to drive themselves completely cuckoo.

Maybe those are religious LIBERALS you are thinking of?

[ October 13, 2008, 11:43 PM: Message edited by: ruo ]

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ruo
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quote:
Originally posted by DaveS:
quote:
Does he have any persuasive power to do talk people into changing it? He's all about change right? I'd like to see that change.
That's right. As a Christian American candidate for President in 2008, he should have the power to change 1500 years of law in a religion he doesn't belong to in a part of the world he has never lived in where people speak languages he doesn't know. What kind of leader is he, anyway?

Still waiting for the serious Ruo to answer my questions. Could it be that he's not serious?

I already responded on page 2.

quote:
Originally posted by ruo:
quote:
Originally posted by DaveS:
Ruo, you are the target of a lot of derision here. If you would like to be taken as a serious person, why don't you take a serious whack at the question I asked. I think it is extremely important. Here it is again:
quote:
That's a different issue than asking how 5+ years of torture and captivity altered McCain's mind. He has suppressed all records from his POW experience and tends to get extremely angry when pressed about it. If you want to know him better, you should ask those questions.
Practical questions:
1. Should McCain be required to release his records from his time as a POW?
2. Should he be required to explain how 5 years in captivity affected him then and what lingering psychological effects he still carries from the experience?

Do you agree that these are important questions to ask and have full answers to?

3. Further, he only allowed cursory examination of 7000 pages of his medical records for two hours by reporters who were not allowed to record anything they read. The pages of many of the reports were not numbered and it appeared that pages were missing. Should he be required to release his full medical record, as other candidates have done?

Just who do you think you are talking to???

An Obamabot who believes the deck should be stacked ONLY in favor of my candidate?

I have said this many times and as I know not everyone reads every thread and every post in every thread and remembers every poster's position on every matter, then I don't mind saying this again here or as many times as it needs to be said.

I am for a COMPLETELY transparent vetting process when it comes to issues that weigh on a person's performance in the job of President of the United States.

Period.

Now, having said that, I will ask you this: What is the purpose and the importance of thoroughly vetting a presidential candidate?


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munga
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yer feeding it
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kenmeer livermaile
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Nothing worse than a hungry troll. They get bad gas.
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Greg Davidson
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I am wondering what might get through to ruo.

Ruo, often I feel that you have firm, perhaps unshakable beliefs about how liberals such as myself think (usually they are uncomplimentary beliefs, indicating that liberals are incapable of critical thought). The two things I find most remarkable are (1) the level of certainty in your writing, and (2) the degree to which your negative beliefs are all in the extreme.

My question is this: If you think we are so flawed, so deluded, so incapable of critical thinking, why are you engaging in a dialog with us? If your basic assumptions were correct, there is no logical reason for you to be communicating with us. Can you please explain what is your objective in this discussion?

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kenmeer livermaile
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My friends, it would be CRIMINAL not to ask, my friends.
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ruo
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quote:
Originally posted by Greg Davidson:
I am wondering what might get through to ruo.

Ruo, often I feel that you have firm, perhaps unshakable beliefs about how liberals such as myself think (usually they are uncomplimentary beliefs, indicating that liberals are incapable of critical thought). The two things I find most remarkable are (1) the level of certainty in your writing, and (2) the degree to which your negative beliefs are all in the extreme.

My question is this: If you think we are so flawed, so deluded, so incapable of critical thinking, why are you engaging in a dialog with us? If your basic assumptions were correct, there is no logical reason for you to be communicating with us. Can you please explain what is your objective in this discussion?

My posts say, "No, no, no" to liberals. But my heart says, "Maybe, maybe, maybe."

I recognize SOMEONE has to be the creative ones in society.

Ever watch the Fox News Show late night & weekend comedy show, "Red Eye"?

I've tried and it is so dreadful I can't get past the opening few moments. I'm sure I'll try again soon, but it really takes Liberals and Conservatives to make this country great. The problem is that the creatives should stick to their strong suit, usually.

Every once in a while a change is due and can be tolerated. But generally speaking, tough, smart, non-nonsense men make the best executives. Those who are vain glorious or seek attention and can't make it in show business or business and want to tell oters what to do are Liberal Politicians and you can't trust them.

Generally.

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Aris Katsaris
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quote:
For Sarah Palin to believe in the Biblical stroy of creation is consistent with the views of our forefathers.

Gotta like old school.

It's one thing to believe in a Young earth in the 1700s, it's another thing to still believe it in the 21st century.

quote:
No. It was a President attempting the most subtle and effective form of diplomacy possible.
And your evidence for that?

quote:
It's my belief that Bush was trying to keep Putin on our side by appealing to his desire to justify Bush's faith in him.
Oh, dear lord. This is beyond comedy. Putin having a desire to justify Bush's faith? Who do you think Putin is, a kid looking up to big wise teacher Bush?

The contempt and arrogance you have is unbelievable.

Congrats, you found the only way possible in which what Bush said was even stupider than I had considered it to be. I believed Bush was stupid enough to consider Putin a good person. You on the other hand believe Bush was stupid enough to believe Putin would look up to Bush and would modify his behaviour so as to be liked by Bush.

quote:
WMD's were never the legal justification for the invasion.
I don't care about the "legal justification" for the invasion. Bush's government kept pushing it as the *reason* for the invasion. And it was a fantasy.

quote:
He made the wrong choice.
Saddam made the wrong choice, if he wanted to live. America made the wrong choice if it cared about anything it claimed to care for, including liberty, or opposing Islamofascism, or ensuring security in the region.

quote:
Originally posted by Aris Katsaris:
It wasn't a liberal governor that had blessings done on her to protect her from witchcraft -- that was Sarah Palin. It wasn't a liberal governor that claims to have participated in an exorcism that cured a woman from cancer -- that was Bobby Jindal.

I had the leaders of my Church pray for me to help drive the urge to smoke from me. And guess what? Although I'd tried and failed several times, I finally quit for good and stayed quit. And it was easy. I've had NO urges for more than two years. Power of suggestion? Maybe. But I'd like to believe it was God's grace.[/quote]

I'd like to believe you are merely a delusional person that can't tell truth from reality.

quote:
What is the difference?
The difference is that I don't believe Obama can cure cancer by saying a few words over me.

quote:
And if you didn't know some people were Christians none of their beliefs would come into play and you'd just think they were nice people.
Sorry, Palin's belief that a raped woman ought carry her rapist's baby to term very much comes into play.

quote:
That is how America was, to a large degree, before prayer in the schools was outlawed in America in the early 1960's.
Yes, I understand you were a much worse place back then.

quote:
No, that Conservatives separate our fantasies from reality.
That's why conservatives support abstinence-only sex education? Because you can supposedly separate your fantasy of abstinent teens from the reality of sex-crazed teens?

Look how well that worked out in the case of Bristol Palin.

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Lyrhawn
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I skipped over some of this thread, but the only question off the top of my head for Obama would be to ask him:

1. What the hell were you thinking when you voted for a FISA bill that included retroactive immunity for the telecomms?

Some of the other things I haven't liked that he has said I think were statements made out of political calculation, and part of me hopes he doesn't actually mean them, mostly I mean that in reference to his statement on the SCOTUS decision to overturn the DC handgun ban, which I think was an awful position. Actually with that in mind, I think I'd ask him point blank:

2. As a constitutional law expert, what is your take on the second amendment and where gun rights end and begin with respect to the federal and state governments' power to restrict access?

I'd probably have one or two dozen questions for McCain, half of which would be policy oriented, and the other half probably more character oriented. I'm voting for Obama, and while I have some reservations about decisions he has made and votes he has cast, I still think he's a net positive.

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Jesse
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Some parts of America didn't wait untill the 60's to stop using public schools for religious indoctrination, you know.

Some of outlawed that through initiatives in 1920's.

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Mynnion
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Ruo- I seem to remember Bush giving Sadaam an ultimatum. Turn over your WMDs or we will invade. He denied having them and we invaded. Its hard to disclose something you don't have.

I find it highly ironic that those who are quickest to criticize the UN fall back on it as an excuse for the invasion. Bush may say now that it was not about WMDs but that is certainly not how the war was sold at the time. It was all about 911 and WMDs.

[ October 14, 2008, 07:54 AM: Message edited by: Mynnion ]

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RickyB
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Same here, Lyrhawn. His ass, my boot and that vote will eventually come up in the same room at the same time...
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Straygaldwyr
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quote:
I believe American conservatives tend to have a much higher delusional percentage than liberals do for exactly all the reasons I highlighted above.
I too think that we Conservatives are much more delusional, because we believe in the Big Lies as Pratchett called them in Hogfather, while Liberals try to replace those Big Lies with pipsqueeks, imagine trying to put Lenin and Marx in the sandals of Christ...

Keep your pathetic lies, I lie big.
quote:

Death: Humans need fantasy to *be* human. To be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape.
Susan: With tooth fairies? Hogfathers?
Death: Yes. As practice, you have to start out learning to believe the little lies.
Susan: So we can believe the big ones?
Death: Yes. Justice, mercy, duty. That sort of thing.



[ October 14, 2008, 10:09 AM: Message edited by: Straygaldwyr ]

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Greg Davidson
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ruo,

not sure I agree with the liberals=creative, conservatives=reliable/logical, but I appreciate hearing that there is some balance within your world view.

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Straygaldwyr
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quote:
It was all about 911 and WMDs.


Wow you have three months left to impeach him...or you can get over it... [LOL]
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DaveS
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Big lies both make and unmake our world through religion and war, for example. Some people can't believe in anything that doesn't completely cover everything with a big lie, because reality (with its well-known liberal bias) would otherwise keep peeking through.

There is a hint of nuanced thought in Ruo's formulation. The problem is that creativity, reliability and logic don't conform to the orthogonal stereotypes of liberal and conservative. Take any of a million examples that don't fit to prove it to yourself. I don't think there is even a substantive difference between the poles of logic and creativity, only in their medium and application.

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Wayward Son
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quote:
Wow you have three months left to impeach him...or you can get over it... [LOL]
Oh, we don't need to impeach him. In four months, we'll be able to investigate him. [LOL] [LOL]
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Straygaldwyr
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And I am sure you will waste millions doing so and find out he is completely within his rights and perogatives as well as transfering our money into the hands of useless lawyers. I will make a bet with you, if Bush is found guilty of any crime you can shoot me, but if he is not I can shoot you...deal?
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Mynnion
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Stray- I was simply calling Ruo on his comments not suggesting we impeach Bush. Besides who wants Cheney as Pres?
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flydye45
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Penguin-Gram from the Fortress.

What is your position on immigration: While he HAS a position, right on his internet web site, he has not been asked questions publically on it because he will have to give an answer which will alienate unions or Hispanics. Noone has asked him questions on this in either debate and just because the economy is melting down, doesn't mean it has gone away as an issue.

What is your position on abortion? Again, not asked once. It is and has been a losing issue for Democrats, who come off as anti baby. As the position couldn't be starker with Palin in the race, it is a a fair and good question.

Mr. Obama, since you have been a constant advocate against transparency and corruption, as has McCain, would you be willing to make your campaign contribution records transparent? There have been at least one case of some Palestinians breaking contribution laws. While your campaign has caught it, the sheer mass of transactions denies close examination, and quite frankly there is a conflict of interest.

On a similar note, ACORN has been in the news recently and in elections past, with bogus registrations, voter drives etc. As you have associations with such community efforts in the past, would you call on them to open their registration to an audit to ensure fair and clean elections?

Mr. Obama, enough with the evasions. At this late date, with an election less then 3 weeks away, who would you name to your cabinet? Or are you waiting to make such a momentous decision at the last minute?

Mr. Obama, give me three names for nominees you would consider for the Supreme Court.

Mr. Obama, Japan in the early 90's underwent a fiscal melt down and attempted strong government bail outs of their banks. They spiraled into a depression for more then 10 years, a stark censure of the effectiveness of government bail outs. How are the current actions of Congress going to avoid the same outcome? Furthermore, how can the banks act in confidence if they do not know who you will nominate to administrate the bail out bill?

I think these are all fair questions. Somehow no one in the media is asking a single one of them.

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kenmeer livermaile
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"I too think that we Conservatives are much more delusional, because we believe in the Big Lies as Pratchett called them in Hogfather, while Liberals try to replace those Big Lies with pipsqueeks, imagine trying to put Lenin and Marx in the sandals of Christ...

Keep your pathetic lies, I lie big."

Shades of Levi Strauss?

Regardless, just because some of us paint our own images of primordial wonder and decide that teleology is a burden we must ultimately carry ourselves, even as we perhaps carry an Invisible Friend in our head and hearts to encourage us to find meaning in life and, if we don't create our own, is hardly a form of squeaking pip.

If I want to tell Big Lies to myself in order to invest the dark with beacon lights, the only prop I require is an uninterrupted bit of conversation with myself, although I find that a writing desk helps greatly. Also, a mirror, so I can see my Invisible Friend for what it is.

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