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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » America's CEO's Want McCain And Fear Obama Presidency (Page 2)

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Author Topic: America's CEO's Want McCain And Fear Obama Presidency
kenmeer livermaile
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I'm in deep communion with my more fully substantial ass -essments. Although, generally, when it smells like ****, and looks like ****, it's full of ****.

Or so mah Daddy taught me years ago.

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kenmeer livermaile
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Not Insane!
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kenmeer livermaile
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TommySam in gitmo
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Haggis
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ruo said:
quote:
And as interesting and thought provoking as that might be you should know that superficial assessments are the reason you support Obama.

And superficial assessments are sometimes off the mark.

In other words, I'm right and you have no way of countering my statement other than a personal attack.

I'll take that any day. Please keep it up, 'cause it ain't hurting me.

[ October 15, 2008, 06:35 AM: Message edited by: Haggis ]

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Gaoics79
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quote:
It does seem to be pretty elitist to suggest that CEO's know what's better for the country than average hard-working Americans.
Which isn't what I said. I said that they were smarter than the average "hard-working" American. It used to be that you could say gee, "I'm no rocket scientist", but.... and people would understand this to mean that rocket scientists are pretty smart guys. Now, in the Palin era, people would probably tell you that a rocket scientist isn't any smarter than Joe Six Pack garage mechanic or bus driver, because gosh-darn how can you suggest that the average "hard working" American is inferior in any way to anyone?

And speaking of "hard working", I wish people would stop putting in the "hard working" pre-fix every time they talk about average or middle class Americans.

I'm going to suggest to you that average or middle class Americans are no more hard working, on average, than any other type of American. I'll even go so far as to suggest that the average CEO probably works harder and longer hours than most blue collar labourers (particularly the unionized ones), and that this idea of the middle class as being uniquely "hard working" is a populist myth perpetuated by politicians pandering for votes.

I'm not saying that the middle class is lazy (although certainly they're not even close to being the hardest working group in even American society, let alone compared to societies in other parts of the world), but stop parroting this "hard working" mantra.

Mexican immigrant labourers toiling in the fields in 12 hour shifts are hard working. A wallstreet lawyer or investment banker pulling 100 hour work weeks and sleeping in his office is hard working.

A 9:00 to 5:00 factory worker isn't lazy, but hard working? Compared to who? The unemployed? Paris Hilton?

[ October 15, 2008, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: jasonr ]

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Jesse
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Jason,

Please, go pilot a shovel for eight hours a day for two months.

Thank you,

Sanity

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Wayward Son
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quote:
Then you are saying you don't care if the economy goes into the dumpster if Obama is elected?
Where did you pull that out from, ruo? I said no such thing, and didn't even imply it! [Exploding]

What I was saying is that what may be in the best interest for CEOs may not be in the best interest for the rest of us.

For instance, what makes you think the current economic downturn is bad for CEOs? They made their bundle in the last 10 years; they can weather this out. And with the government bailouts, they may even turn a tidy profit because of this. So what if the rest of the nation goes through a depression?

One of the main reasons they probably oppose Obama is that he want to increase the tax on the wealthiest. They are the wealthiest. Does this have anything to do with the ecomonic well-being of the country as a whole?

You assume that they are looking out for their businesses. But as I can attest from my own company, CEOs are also quite capable of driving a company into the ground in the name of short-term profits. They are not automatically the best predictors of who would be best for the economy in the long term.

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Gaoics79
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quote:
Jason,

Please, go pilot a shovel for eight hours a day for two months.

Thank you,

Sanity

I knelt in the dirt picking weeds for eight hours a day for three months, several times. I've been a bus boy too. I've shovelled asphalt in the hot sun. Would I want to do it for 40 years? No. But then again, most people would not find the idea of sitting in front of a computer screen in an office for the rest of their lives super-appealing either.

Physical labour isn't "harder" than intellectual work. Ironically, I didn't feel any more exhausted at the end of a day of weed picking than I do now at the end of a day of writing reports or reading cases in my office.

The difference is, the intellectual stuff is more stressful, and more likely to follow you home. I don't get to leave my job at the factory floor.

And incidentally, excepting a very rare few heavy duty construction and agricultural jobs, most average "work" is no more physically intensive than your typical white collar office job. If picking up a shovel makes work "hard", then I presume you think that factory workers, bus drivers, and waitresses are not hard workers either.

[ October 15, 2008, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: jasonr ]

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Jesse
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If you want to know which is tougher, all you really need to do is look at life expectancy.

I think your perception of what most CEOs do in the way of work is pretty skewed.

I worked pretty closely with the CEO of a half-billion dollar company for a year. He came in at 9-9:30 and left around 3:00 most days.

Sometimes, like when he was planning to buy another company, he would put in some long hours, but not ussualy.

"CEO" and "Junior Partner at a Law Firm" aren't the same thing by a long-shot.

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Jesse
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Depends.

It's pretty hard to say that being on your feet all day and negotiating your way through a resturant with piles of food isn't hard work.

It's pretty hard to say that doing the same repetitive task in a factory all day isn't hard work.

I wouldn't generally call Bus Drivers "hard working". I wouldn't generally call most of them decent drivers, either. It's just a crappy job.

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Mynnion
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We need to get away from the "average hard working American."

I have worked the extremes. From all day physical work to 80+ hour a week high stress white collar work. They are both exhausting.

In both types of work there have been those that slack and those that produce. CEOs tend to be producers. A board of Directors would be stupid to hire them if they weren't.

That being said. It is a rare individual that wants to pay more taxes. I heard a comment the othe day that went something like this, "I was thrilled when I heard Obama was going to cut taxes on 95% of Americans until I realized that I fell in the upper 5%." CEOs have had it made with massive bonus', stock options, and golden parachutes. There primary focus in most cases is their own personal gain. This might be an interesting story if they supported Obama. Support for the one that will if anything increase their personal wealth is expected.

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Wayward Son
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Not to mention that CEOs will also favor the candidate who is more into deregulation. Less regulation means less paperwork and hassle, and more efficiency.

Of course, deregulation is one reason that everyone agrees is a cause of the current economic crisis. (They are just arguing about who should be blamed for the deregulation. [Smile] )

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scifibum
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I think not only would many CEOs gladly run their own companies into the ground for personal gain at the cost of <just about anyone>, they'd gladly tank the entire US economy to make their >.05 billion dollars - why would they care? They can move offshore; go where the economy or at least cost of living suits them. They have the financial swing to get into real property if financial instruments are collapsing.

Seriously, anyone suggesting that the modern American Corporate CEOs have the well being of America in mind hasn't been paying attention.

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Wayward Son
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That's not to say that CEOs want the US (or world) economy to tank. They doubtlessly could make more money if there is a strong economy.

But if it came down to a choice between the US economy tanking or their own profits tanking, I kinda doubt they'd be strongly on the US's side. [Smile]

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scifibum
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WS, exactly. They are not malicious, just greedy.
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munga
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******enron********


And I know of so many others.

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kenmeer livermaile
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Al Capone was a CEO too. Pretty smart guy -- at least at running his business.
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Haggis
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Of course we need to get away from "average hard working American". I was using it as an example of the rhetoric I have heard from some conservative talk show hosts when they criticize liberals, and put the shoe on the other foot.

I'm glad people think that we need to get away from that hackneyed phrase.

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scifibum
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http://www.thingspalincanname.com/?p=115
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