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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Members leaving (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Members leaving
Everard
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So far, today, three members have said they are leaving. Stray, DaveS, and Jesse.

I find this sad, though they are all leaving for different reasons.

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LoverOfJoy
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It saddens me, too. I thought things were improving here a bit.
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RickyB
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Wait, why the hell are Dave and Jesse leaving?
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DonaldD
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melancholy and litigation
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RickyB
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I just searched it. That is some majorly fcuked up shyt.
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Everard
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I don't understand dave, but I may be missing a post. It sounds like he's just worn down?
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Kat_Freeman
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How long has this forum "crowd" been here? I get the sense there are a lot of relationships that run deep (to say the least). I mean, Ev, I see you've been here for 8 years... it seems like a lot of emotional involvement.
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Locus
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Quite a long time with a little turnover here and there and some of the usual offenders seeming to persist forever.

What is worse is how often the same topics keep repeating themselves with seemingly little progress made or new material brought to bear.

It's like an intricate industrial strength version of the "AM NOT ! ARE TOO!" game children are so fond of.

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DaveS
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I wanted to be terse, not mysterious. Mostly I have lots of things IRL that I have to focus on, some work, some personal, some family. This election was a huge focus for me. I could bicker, cajole, joke, learn and think here on Ornery better about it than with my protoplasmic pals, and I'm glad it turned out as it did. But this morning, as if waking from a dream, I thought of meaningful pieces of mindshare fodder that it had crowded out. Like John says to Jane, it's not you, it's me. Melancholy? I wouldn't have used that word, but that always tugs; more like needing to get more done while having less to do it with, a bit tiring that. This is a great place, don't let it go to the dogmas.
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Everard
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Thanks, Dave.

Goodnight, and good luck [Smile]

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hobsen
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It is smart never to say never. But we shall surely miss all of them. Somewhere else will be a better place.
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LinuxFreakus
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I agree. Never say never. I've gone months sometimes without reading a single thread. And now I'm finally close to adding a extra digit to my post count.
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Paladine
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I've toyed with the idea of leaving myself lately. Over the past few months things have been so miserable that I've had a hard time justifying spending time and energy on it. But I'm seeing some pretty good stuff over the past few days, and hope now that this election is behind us we can continue the trend and get back to real discussion. I have hope. [Wink]
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LoverOfJoy
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I'm glad to have you clarify, Dave. I have had times like that. I've never officially gone into exile but I've spent extended periods of time where I was too busy with life to come here and even when I did drop by to read up a bit I didn't really post. I wish you well in all your endeavors.

quote:
How long has this forum "crowd" been here? I get the sense there are a lot of relationships that run deep (to say the least). I mean, Ev, I see you've been here for 8 years... it seems like a lot of emotional involvement.
Depends on how you define "crowd". There's a handful that have been here as long as or a bit longer than Everard. Ornery has grown in spurts. Orson Scott Card gets some media attention and that brings in a bunch of new people. An election comes up and that brings in a bunch more.

Quite a few have met in real life at barbecues or restaurants or airports. A few funds have been created to help some members during some hard times. There definitely has grown some emotional attachment for some members.

That said, a lot of members have left over the years. I think it's fair to say that it's not QUITE as diverse a place as it once was (although I think a fairly broad spectrum of beliefs can still be found). Having been around for quite a while I can say that this fluctuates. I'm fairly certain that we'll see an influx of interesting new people if you're patient enough. We're already starting to see a few keepers from this latest burst I think and I suspect some more will be make themselves known soon.

It's not the same Ornery as it was 6-7 years ago, but then I'm glad of that. Sure, some of the same topics keep cropping up but because new people enter the scene it gets seen in a new light.

For instance, SSM is a pet topic of Pete's. He has to be one of the most prolific writers on the board. Some people just gloss any topics that hint at SSM because they feel it's been talked to death. However, I feel I've read the change in the debate from early arguments from TomDavidson to later arguments from Jordan and Hitoshi and hobsen.

I think each of these people have added intelligently to the debate and I've been glad to revisit the topic now that they are here to add to it. Obviously if the SSM topic is not your cup of tea, then it doesn't really matter what else someone new has to say on the topic.

But there are plenty of other topics that this applies to. Also, some topics get revisited a lot for a while but the experts in that topic leave.

For instance, I loved reading the many threads we had on evolution and other related biological threads. When simplybiological left or became less active those threads started becoming few and far between.

But new topics started appearing. The new topics don't always interest me. I certainly don't keep up with all of them. The great thing is that nothing's forcing me to. I'll go some months intensely interested in Ornery topics and other months I'll meagerly pick through what I'm most interested in. I've had periods where my health just wasn't up to really getting on at all. I'm not the most prolific writer so I doubt many people missed me but I felt welcome enough when I returned.

In that sense I think there is a "crowd" with a relationship that runs deep even if the crowd changes and the relationships change over the years.

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cperry
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Certainly, there are many of us who come and go as our "real" lives permit and/or as our patience with/interest in the topics raised fits. I grew to think of some of the posters with really old registration dates/low member numbers as ancient sages who only spoke up on occasion as the rest of us relative newbies worked our ways through the same old issues (history repeats). At least, it was a neat fantasy, if not an accurate reality.

Maybe for some folks, OA is like alcohol: to quit, you have to go cold turkey. Of course, I like to think that OA-frequenting is much less damaging than alcoholism, overall (although I can see where it could be just as detrimental).

Anyway, I like the "never say never" motif here; come back and check us out from time to time. If our recent election showed us anything, it is that anything can change ... eventually.

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0Megabyte
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Where did Jesse say he was leaving, and why again?
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Everard
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Its in the Miscellaneous chat thread, and it appears to be because he's being harrassed.
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LetterRip
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A day or so ago a was talking about Ornery to a friend, and when he asked about the address I actually suggested that I would feel embarrassed if he joined due to the decrease in quality that has taken place over the recent history.

While I haven't 'quit' ornery, and most of why I'm not participating is more demand from Real life, I'm also unhappy with the declining quality that it has been displaying over the years.

We have gained a few new good posters, but we have lost a large number of our most thoughtful conservatives and a few of our thoughtful liberals. Meanwhile the postings from those who are 'partisan poo flingers' has increased enormously.

Not sure what, if anything, can be done...

LetterRip

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Daruma28
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I'm also unhappy with the declining quality that it has been displaying over the years.

In all the years I've been here, it's been the same old same old as far as I can tell. The partisan poo flinging has just been par for the course, and certainly predictably tracked with regards to the 4 year Prez election cycle.

I don't get how so many people seem to always develop this view over time....I just think that everyone that participates here reaches a point where they know what everyone else is gonna say or what point of view they will generally espouse, so your quality of discourse will naturally get a bit stale.

Discussing small c communism with Ev or SSM with Pete -- it may have been stimulating the first 35,3643 times you get involved in debating it, but after awhile, one begins to think "Ornery isn't how it used to be!"

Nah.

It is as it always was.

It's not US LR...It's YOU! [Wink] [Razz]

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Everard
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"Discussing small c communism with E"

Seriously. How many times have I discussed it in the past 4 years? Once? And only because someone made reference to me and communism. I know its funny to some of the old timers, but really...maybe its time to drop the joke unless you actually want the discussion?

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Daruma28
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I know its funny to some of the old timers, but really...maybe its time to drop the joke unless you actually want the discussion?

Is that a threat or a promise? [Eek!]


EDITED TO ADD:

Seriously.

I wasn't trying to be...really. [Smile]

[ November 05, 2008, 07:49 PM: Message edited by: Daruma28 ]

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scifibum
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If one of you is bugging Jesse and he wants you to stop, please...stop. Seriously.

I'd probably have a better life if I didn't spend so much time online, but it's like a drug and I haven't found the right support group offline to help me stay off it. So you'll all be afflicted with me a while yet.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
If one of you is bugging Jesse and he wants you to stop, please...stop. Seriously.
Amen to this. I'm actually astonished and disgusted that this might be happening.
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Finvarra
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Where did Jesse say he was leaving?
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flydye45
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Misc chat. I don't understand how anyone could get his phone number. He doesn't even post his email address.
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canadian
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Like it's such a mystery as to who it could be...
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Pete at Home
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Not me, dude. Haven't called him in nearly a year; in fact IIRC t'was he who last phoned me, and that was friendly. And I stopped emailing him at most 48 hours after he sent me that religious hate mail and it became clear that he wasn't going to reply. I'm relieved that he's leaving, since the Jesse I knew left weeks ago. I don't know this new person who was using his sig.
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flydye45
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Canadian,

If you have an accusation, make it. Proof would be a bonus. Otherwise...

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G2
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
If one of you is bugging Jesse and he wants you to stop, please...stop. Seriously.
Amen to this. I'm actually astonished and disgusted that this might be happening.
It happens more than you might think. It happened to me too and I had to get some involvement from authorities to stop it. I'd recommend you get a new screen name if you really are using your full name, something anonymous. It's only a matter of time before some nut latches onto you too, better to nip it in the bud now.

quote:
Originally posted by flydye45:
Canadian,

If you have an accusation, make it. Proof would be a bonus. Otherwise...

I'd say drop it. Don't get mixed up in it in any way. You've got nothing to gain and things like this tend to take on a life of their own so who knows where it will take you if you get involved even in the most peripheral way.

[ November 06, 2008, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: G2 ]

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flydye45
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(Shrugs) Just saying that if canadian has something constructive to say, he should.
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msquared
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Several people have my home number and address and I have never been harrased, even when I was the Mod. I don't understand it. However, I wish whoever is doing it would stop.

msquared

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Funean
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Personally I feel that making a parting allegation against an unnamed member of Ornery without offering any substantiation was uncalled-for. There's no positive and the result is that everyone is left looking around at one another with Squinty Eyes Of Suspicion. It's a poor finish to an otherwise productive membership and a bit akin to sabotaging a former workplace on your way out the door. It hurts everyone, not just the object of one's disgruntlement.
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Pete at Home
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Well said. This is one pathetic passive aggressive parting.
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Adam Masterman
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That's unnecessarily harsh. Jesse was advised by his lawyer to leave, and mentioned it in briefest detail in the chat thread. Its better than just disappearing for no reason, and everyone who isn't harassing him in real life now knows that they aren't responsible for driving him away. I don't care who it is; its despicable and if they are breaking any laws, I hope they get nailed and Jesse can return.

Adam

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Funean
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Yes, I should stress that harrassing someone on a message board, let alone in real life, is just about the most pathetic expression of personal impotence I can imagine. [Mad]

I would hope and expect that Jesse is pursuing the appropriate legal action to put an end to it, but I do maintain that making a veiled reference to it here was unwarranted and destructive. Without being able to offer any substantiation that, at least, he had proof that it was a member of this board and not some random other person (and he couldn't have,not without opening himself up to charges of libel), it would have been much better for those of us who are NOT harrassing him if he'd left it at "leaving for personal reasons." Those members who are close enough to him to have his email address could certainly have bludgeoned him privately for more details. [Smile]

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Wayward Son
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Unless, of course, it happens to be true. [Frown]

I have to agree with Letterrip's assessment of the quality of discussions. Partisan poo-flinging may be about the same, but previously there seemed to be more documentation of the allegations. Then the discussions would move from the allegations themselves to the quality of the evidence. Which makes for a much more fruitful and satisfying discussion that just hammering away with one's opinion. [Smile]

One reason, however, may be Letterrip's lack of presence here, since he was one of the best in tracking down documentation. (And I still wish I understood statistics as deeply as he does. [Smile] )

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Omega M.
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I don't know why people burn their bridges (in a manner of speaking) by saying that they're leaving; it suggests (possibly wrongly) that they think they're so important that we'll care if they're gone. Why can't they just drop out and see if anybody notices they were gone if they come back years later? They can always privately email their close friends on the board.
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canadian
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quote:
Originally posted by flydye45:
(Shrugs) Just saying that if canadian has something constructive to say, he should.

It's like you don't even KNOW me!

[Smile]

Besides, anytime I actually flex my muscles you run away.

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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by Adam Masterman:
That's unnecessarily harsh.

I disagree, and I wonder if you'd hold the same position if you'd read the anti-mormon hate mail that Jesse sent me out of the blue last week. Given my own recent experiences with Jesse, I imagine that there are two sides to that story. And I wouldn't have entered this discussion if it didn't seem to me that Ev and Canadian were trying to pin this on my head, since I'm IIRC the only one who has been accused on the board of "harassing" Jesse. In response to Ev and Canadian's opportunistic whispering campaign, my "harassment" consisted of nothing more than reposting Jesse's religious hate mail to me to show others the actual basis for Jesse's public statements that I wasn't allowed to talk to him. I did not call Jesse; I do not even have a good telephone number for him. Last time I called Jesse by phone was to report to him some anti-obama election cheating during the Nevada Caucuses. While Jesse did ask for my address and sent me a letter last year, I didn't hold onto his address and haven't written him.

While I did send him several emails immediately after his hate mail, trying to get him to explain himself, I stopped after it became evident that he wasn't going to respond. His attack was out of the blue, and Jesse had for years represented himself as my friend. Hell, the very previous email exchange that we'd had was one month earlier, perfectly friendly and he was trying to mooch legal advice. Going from that to blood curdling hate mail was a shock. I don't think my response was "harassment," and I think that OM's response to what happend was one-sided, underthought, and grotesquely unfair. If anyone wants to see the email, then I'll forward it to them. (Not the friendly advice mooching one -- I do regard most email as private, but I don't think that Hate mail deserves any protections of privacy.)


But I would rather NOT talk about my fall out with Jesse further on this board, and would not have brought it up if it didn't seem that Ev and Canadian were pointing fingers at me. And I can't help wonder if smearing me wasn't Jesse's intent with that cryptic exit remark.

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munga
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but it is also possible that they've learned all they'll ever need from me and they are ready to leave the nest

ever think of that, huh?

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