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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Miscellaneous Chat - Part 2 (Page 76)

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Author Topic: Miscellaneous Chat - Part 2
AI Wessex
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In a continual effort to improve the quality of discussions that are engaged in here, one of our more storied and colorful members has pointed out numerous logical fallacies in the arguments made by other members. Since a great many of us are apparently susceptible to committing these common types of errors I thought it would be helpful to categorize them to make them easier to recognize and thereby avoid falling prey to. Scanning the list, you may find that similar arguments and even some of these same ones have indeed been evoked by members here. This can only be a partial list, as every day new opportunities to think and act illogically are presented to us:
quote:
AD HOMINEM. Attacking a person instead of making an argument. Barack Obama is an “Indonesian Muslim turned welfare thug.” —Tea Party spokesman Mark Williams, discussing the President.

AD MISERICORDIAM. Seeking pity instead of providing evidence. “Twenty years from now, if there is some obscure Trivial Pursuits question, I am confident I will be the answer.” —Ted Cruz.

AD POPULUM. Relying upon base opinion or prejudice. “Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?” —Rush Limbaugh.

APPEAL TO POVERTY. Allusion to the virtues of the poor. “When I was in college we used to take a popcorn popper—because that was the only thing they would let us have in the dorms—and we would fry squirrels in the popcorn popper.” —Mike Huckabee.

APPEAL TO THE PURSE. Allusion to the virtues of the wealthy. “The reason we worry about raising taxes on anyone—even raising taxes on the rich—it’s not that we’re looking out for the rich,” it’s that it “will hit the poorest among us the hardest.” —Senator Mike Lee.

ARGUMENTUM EX CULO. An invented position that is pulled right out of one’s imagination. “American scientific companies are cross-breeding humans and animals and coming up with mice with fully functioning human brains.” —Christine O’Donnell.

ARGUMENTUM E SILENTIO. Silence intended to dull understanding. “I don’t recall.” —Former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, during questioning.

ARGUMENTUM AD NAUSEAM. Repetition intended to dull understanding. “I don’t recall.” —Former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, uttering the sentence sixty-four times during questioning.

BAFFLEMENT. Argument by gibberish. “We’re not going to be disrespected. We have to get something out of this. And I don’t know what that even is.” —Representative Marlin Stutzman, explaining conservative strategy to get beyond the government shutdown.

BEGGING THE QUESTION. Assuming the thing to be proved. “President Obama’s shuck-and-jive shtick with these Benghazi lies must end.” —Sarah Palin.

CHERRY-PICKING. Selecting anecdotal evidence that proves one’s case. “I went to the movie this weekend with a gun. And surprise, surprise, I didn’t kill anybody!” —Glenn Beck

DEUS VULT. Asserting God’s will to support an argument. “We are in God’s end-time history … Rather than seeing this as a negative, we need to rejoice, Maranatha, come Lord Jesus. His day is at hand. When we see up is down and right is called wrong, when this is happening, we were told this: that these days would be as the days of Noah.” —Michele Bachmann, contesting Obama’s decision to aid Syrian rebels.

FALLACY OF THE UNDISTRIBUTED MIDDLE. A ridiculous conclusion caused by a leap in thinking that misses a critical step. “It’s like a derivative of actual pepper. It’s a food product, essentially.” —Megyn Kelly, analyzing the use of pepper spray on protesting students.

GROUPTHINK. Substituting pride of membership in the group for reasons to support the group’s policy. “Our blacks are so much better than their blacks.” —Ann Coulter.

IGNORATIO ELENCHI. A conclusion that is irrelevant to the premise. “Halloween is a liberal holiday because we’re teaching our children to beg for something for free.” —Sean Hannity.

IPSE DIXIT. A bold, sometimes absurd, statement. “I’m here as the modern-day Harriet Tubman, to kind of lead people on the Underground Railroad, away from that [Democratic] plantation into a sense of sensibility.” —Former Representative Allen West.

KETTLE LOGIC. Confusing listeners with multiple, incoherent stabs at an argument. “I never said I was pro-choice, but my position was effectively pro-choice. I changed my position. And I get tired of people that are holier than thou because they’ve been pro-life longer than I have. But I’m proud of the fact.” —Mitt Romney, clarifying his view.

LINE-DRAWING FALLACY. Using vagueness to avoid a response. “All of ’em, any of ’em.” —Sarah Palin, on what newspapers she reads.

LIP SERVICE. Asserting a position one doesn’t actually believe. “The House has done its work.” —Speaker John Boehner, explaining the shutdown of the U.S. government.

MISLEADING VIVIDNESS. Distraction with an arresting detail. “It is tragic what we do in the poorest neighborhoods, entrapping children in child laws which are truly stupid … These schools should get rid of unionized janitors, have one master janitor, pay local students to take care of the school.” —Newt Gingrich.

NON SEQUITUR. An incoherent inference. “Marriage is not a civil right. You’re not black.” —Ann Coulter, analyzing gay marriage.

PARADE OF HORRIBLES. Opposing a view by listing all the other nefarious positions that could hypothetically result. The hate-crimes bill “means you’d have to strike any laws against bestiality, if you’re oriented toward corpses, toward children, … pedophiles or necrophiliacs or what most would say is perverse sexual orientations.’ —Representative Louie Gohmert.

POISONING THE WELL. Providing adverse information to discredit an opponent. ”The Girl Scouts allow homosexuals and atheists to join their ranks, and they have become a pro-abortion, feminist training corps. If the Girl Scouts of America can’t get back to teaching real character, perhaps it will be time to look for our cookies elsewhere.” —Representative Hans Zeiger.

POST HOC, ERGO PROPTER HOC. Causally connecting one thing with another that happens to have followed it. “Twelve million illegal immigrants later, we are now living in a nation that is beset by people who are suicidal maniacs and want to kill countless innocent men, women, and children around the world.” —Fred Thompson.

PRESTIGIOUS JARGON. Use of ponderous twaddle to obscure thinking. “I would not say that the future is necessarily less predictable than the past. I think the past was not predictable when it started.” —Donald Rumsfeld.

REDUCTIO AD HITLERUM. Associating a position with one that is universally reviled. “Do you know, where does this phrase ‘separation of church and state’ come from? Actually, that exact phrase was not in Jefferson’s letter to the Danbury Baptists. … The exact phrase ‘separation of church and state’ came out of Adolf Hitler’s mouth, that’s where it comes from. So the next time your liberal friends talk about the separation of church and state, ask them why they’re Nazis.” —Former Delaware House candidate Glen Urquhart.

REGRESSION FALLACY. Finding cause where none exists. “A mere forty years ago, beach volleyball was just beginning … No bureaucrat would have invented it, and that’s what freedom is all about.” —Newt Gingrich.

SLIPPERY SLOPE. An argument that change will lead to adverse consequences. “You guys ever watch ‘Sixteen Candles’? You guys remember [the foreign student] Long Duk Dong at the end? That’s going to be us tomorrow, waking up on the grass, crashed automobile. That’s us.” —Representative Devin Nunes, discussing the behavior of his fellow-Republicans that led to the government shutdown.

TAUTOLOGY. Repetition posing as significance. “My job is a decision-making job. And as a result, I make a lot of decisions.” —George W. Bush.

TU QUOQUE. Attacking a position by suggesting that one’s opponents don’t abide by their own argument. “She lectures us on eating right, while she has a large posterior herself.” —Representative Jim Sensenbrenner, discussing Michelle Obama’s healthy-food initiative.

UNDERSTATEMENT. Expressing an idea as less than it is. “Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war.” —Donald Rumsfeld.

WISHFUL THINKING. Appealing to what is pleasing to imagine. “We know [Saddam Hussein’s] been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons, and we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons.” —Dick Cheney. Or: “My belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators.” —Dick Cheney. Or: “I think they’re in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency.” —Dick Cheney. Or: “Well, basically, we were hunting quail late in the day.” —Dick Cheney. Or: “I think Barack Obama is a one-term President.” —Dick Cheney.



[ October 20, 2013, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: AI Wessex ]

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scifibum
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Amusing, but the strictly partisan examples needlessly invite dismissal. I mean, we've got Pelosi.
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AI Wessex
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I wouldn't mind seeing a list with examples using Democrats. Someone can then follow with another set drawn from religious leaders, pundits, wealthy businessmen, professional athletes or Miss America contestants if they like [Smile] .
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AI Wessex
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Here, I'll give one to start the athlete list:
quote:
CONCUSSION DEFICIT: Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein. -- Joe Theismann

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Pete at Home
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http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/24/21109603-boy-11-brought-400-rounds-of-ammo-handgun-knives-to-school-cops?lite
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Pete at Home
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Unauthorized animated Calvin and Hobbes

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4193957/?ir=Entertainment

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JoshuaD
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Have you seen Hobbes and Bacon? They are nice.
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RedVW on a Laptop
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Happy Turkey Day.
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Pete at Home
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http://twerkersanonymous.blogspot.com/?m=1
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RedVW on a Laptop
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Ok is it just me or is 75 degrees and sunny a couple of days before Christmas a total bummer or what?
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Pete at Home
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You know why they keep remaking the Carrie movie?
They don't want it to turn into a period piece.

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Pete at Home
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Merry Christmas folks.
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D.W.
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Merry Christmas all.
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TommySama
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quote:
Originally posted by RedVW on a Laptop:
Ok is it just me or is 75 degrees and sunny a couple of days before Christmas a total bummer or what?

It was -30 (accounting for windchill) when I went to work yesterday morning.
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RedVW on a Laptop
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Sometimes life just sucks. Square one.
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AI Wessex
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Seneca posted a piece of the so-called Ornery guidelines the other day. I decided to look through the "Forum Rules" thread to re-read them, but stopped when I got to this one from September 2008:
quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
I have some suggestions.

1. Palin-related threads must link to pictures, and/or include some comment on her appearance.

2. No rule shall prohibit resurrection of winkey threads without advance warning

3. Responding to TommySama's autobiographical posts as if they are true gets you a gold star.

It reminded me of when we weren't so "rules PC" about talking about each other and could make playful or even serious digs at each other, and could fledge out our ironic wings from time to time without provoking an uber-partisan comeback (that usually falls flat). It was a way that we kept ourselves "on track" and in tune with each other, allowing and encouraging wagging and winking as well as nodding.

[ January 19, 2014, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: AI Wessex ]

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scifibum
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Heh, I had forgotten about that. I no longer remember whether I seriously doubted Tommy's veracity nor why.
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TommySama
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I am in Denver for the rest of today and maybe tomorrow morning as well, if any orneryans live in the area and want to get together (and believe that I'm really here) shoot me an email.
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OpsanusTau
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Ooo, if only it were next week, I would be in Denver too. Sorry to have missed you.
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NobleHunter
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Spurred by the tangent into alignments in the Utah adoption law thread.

I probably trend towards chaotic good. Though intellectually I probably trend towards lawful good 'cause rules are generally pretty useful (it's a Canadian thing?). The result is my head gets pretty weird sometimes:

"Smash the system"

"Dude, unintended consequences."

"Weee! God will know his own."

"No, seriously. Bad plan."

"Liberty, Equality, Fraternity!"

"Yeah, and you saw how that turned out."

"Death to the capitalist roaders!"

"Seriously, Maoism? The ****? Cultural revolution, remember?"

"Oh yeah, ****ing communists."

"Hey, we agree on something."

"We agree on lots of things, we just disagree on methods."

"Take a sad song and make it better?"

"Exactly. By lining the reactionaries up against the wall."

*headdesk*

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Pete at Home
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I concur. You're almost American sometimes. [Big Grin]

No seriously, you seem like me, a patriotic heart with a detached internationalist mind.

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NobleHunter
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I think internationalism comes easy to Canadians. So much the culture we consume is American that almost everything gets put into an international context. Even if it's just "how does this make us not-American."

For example, I probably know more about US law that Canadian. I know the Bill of Rights better than the Charter of Right and Freedoms, for example. Fun fact: the right agianst self-incrimination is in the 5th section of the Charter. So both Canadians and Americans can plead the fifth [Razz]

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Pete at Home
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Good afghan war article: http:www.vanityfair.com%2Fpolitics%2Ffeatures%2F2008%2F01%2Fafghanistan200801&ei=HysSU6PRBtLLkQf59oHoDA&usg=AFQjCNHOQBjTit_muavTyaZmWEJ8m5pYIg
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stilesbn
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Fixed link... I think.

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/01/afghanistan200801

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Pete at Home
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Thank you!

What"s the trick to getting shorter URLs?

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D.W.
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{URL=http://www.longaddressname.com}short name{/URL}

Replace{} with []
If that's what you were refering to...

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G3
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I just noticed, no posts from TomDavidson lately. I checked and it's been a month since he last posted. Way outside his normal posting habits - he's disappeared which I find very surprising. Anybody know if he's OK?
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scifibum
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He's OK.
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Pete at Home
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He said doesn't like the way the forum has changed. Surprisingly, I miss his voice here.
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G3
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Glad to hear he's OK.
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Pete at Home
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9 month old charged with murder in (where else?) Pakistan.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-26887186

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Pete at Home
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Hillary's new intern:
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8248/20080111133822119704288fg9.jpg

Does Hillary's very presence cause the temperature to drop? Is there a solution in the works for global warming?

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Pete at Home
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I'm going to have nightmares over this one ...
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Wayward Son
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If you drive a Mazda, you may have nightmares over this one, too. [Smile]
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Pete at Home
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I think "shoat" sounds better than "geep"


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26870598

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NobleHunter
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Sometimes I wish there was a way to subtweet on this forum.
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AI Wessex
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The alter ego (costumed super-hero) riseth...self-appointed hall monitors to your stations!

[ May 14, 2014, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: AI Wessex ]

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Seneca
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/06/23/clinton-im-not-truly-well-off/

That was pretty funny, in comparisson it is literally 10x worse than McCain's comments about what income level is "rich."

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AI Wessex
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True, she's filthy rich, but didn't make her wealth by engaging in dirty activities. I would think she would be an admirable example the right would use to extol the virtues of hard work and individual accomplishment. OTOH, one can look at Venture Capitalists who buy and break companies, people who off-shore personnel costs and shelter their $$M in off-shore accounts. Their money is not a lot different from blood money.
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Seneca
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So charging institutions, many of them educational who could use that money on scholarships for low income kids, 6 figures for speaking deals isn't dirty?

[LOL]

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