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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » The Great Martin Eisenstadt Hoax (Page 1)

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Author Topic: The Great Martin Eisenstadt Hoax
Ron Lambert
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quote:
[Martin] Eisenstadt is the fabrication of two filmmakers, Eitan Gorlin and Dan Mirvish, who, as The New York Times first reported Wednesday, succeeded at an elaborate hoax that fooled countless media outlets into believing Eisenstadt was a real political insider.

Over the course of the past year and a half, Gorlin and Mirvish -- under the guise of Eisenstadt -- infiltrated political coverage on several occasions, when media outlets picked up on their fake political commentary on their blog postings and video clips.

The most recent incident came right after Election Day, when Fox News cited anonymous McCain aides as having claimed that Gov. Sarah Palin did not know Africa was a continent.

Link: http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=6250151&page=1

The two filmmakers hired an actor to help them purpetrate their hoax on most of the mainstream media, and it went on for a year and a half. Countless news reports cited Eisenstandt as "a senior McCain campaign official," or some other pundit or fellow of a Washington D.C. think tank, as he was variously represented as being. He came out with bizarre claims, such as a wierd story linking Paris Hilton with Sarah Palin, that were accepted at face value by professional news media outlets that should have known better than to publish something that was not properly vetted for source. But of course some major news outlets around the country have been doing that for months to report anything negative about John McCain or Sarah Palin. Even MSNBC got taken in (some might say, OF COURSE MSNBC got taken in).

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Ron Lambert
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This kind of lends confirmation to the declaration by Henry Morris (a contributor to Fox News) that journalism as a profession died in America in 2008.
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TomDavidson
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Journalism died a lot earlier than that. I left the field in disgust in 2000, remember.
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Gaoics79
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This reminds me of the great Sokal Hoax. Not quite as spectacular an indictment of mainstream media as Sokal was of academia, but very interesting.

I will, however, note the fact that the story you linked to is of course ABC news, which shows that at least the mainstream media gets it right sooner or later.

I will also point out that if it had been anyone but Palin, nobody would ever have believed the Africa story was true. McCain managed to nominate the only person so spectacularly stupid and ignorant, that people really had no difficulty imagining that she did not know that Africa was a continent. No small feat on their part.

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Stevarooni
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quote:
Originally posted by jasonr:
I will also point out that if it had been anyone but Palin, nobody would ever have believed the Africa story was true.

What, you wouldn't have believed it of President Bush, or Dan Quail? Maybe Ronald Reagan? There are tons of people who could be painted as so stupid as to make such a ludicrous story seem reasonable. [Razz]
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jimskater
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Depending on which President Bush, the answer is "No" in the case of the elder. In the case of the younger, He had it coming! given the planted reporters in the White House press room. [Wink]

Ronald Reagan, probably not.

Dan Quayle, easily.

[ November 17, 2008, 12:29 AM: Message edited by: jimskater ]

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Stevarooni
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quote:
Originally posted by jimskater:
Depending on which President Bush, the answer is "No" in the case of the elder.

Well, good to know that you don't actually think that Gov. Palin is the only one of whom people would believe such an absurdity.
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TommySama
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None of those guys is as stupid as Palin. Not even close.
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Rallan
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
Even MSNBC got taken in (some might say, OF COURSE MSNBC got taken in).

I like that desperate twist on the end to try and imply that somehow, through reasons even you and the finest Freeper logic available can't explain, foul play by the Liberal Media is at least partially to blame [Big Grin]
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DonaldD
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hmmm... where was Fox news in all of this?
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Rallan
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quote:
Originally posted by DonaldD:
hmmm... where was Fox news in all of this?

Why must you be so mean to Ron? [Smile]
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Viking_Longship
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Not to worry Palin has plenty of other genuinely stupid things on the record.

I went to journalism school. Journalists are just ordinary people. That's why they aren't that hard to convince of anything they really want to believe.

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RickyB
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Um, from the article:

"Mirvish and Gorlin weren't the original anonymous source, but jumped at the opportunity to make fun of what they call the media's propensity to use anonymous sources."

emphasis mine.

[ November 17, 2008, 06:28 PM: Message edited by: RickyB ]

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Gaoics79
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quote:
What, you wouldn't have believed it of President Bush, or Dan Quail? Maybe Ronald Reagan?
No, no and no. Even Dubya isn't that ignorant. Palin is in her own league.
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Redskullvw
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Dude

Palin was falsely accused, you bought it, and now you think she is the stupidest vp candidate ever. Did Fox talk about the Africa crap? Yep, noting that it was being reported in other sources on other outlets, but that they had yet to confirm it. Regardless, the story was false, but it fooled a lot of very smart people, including you, so successfully that even on Ornery people were declaring her to be dumb as a rock.

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DonaldD
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Well, I didn't buy it (I have proof on the other thread.) So do I get to call her the stupidest vp candidate ever?

(For the record, I don't think she is a moron; just that she was supremely unprepared, either for the p[osition or even for running for the position.)

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munga
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I think she wasn't smart enough to realize that her position as a VP pick arguing againnnst re-distribution or progressive tax code was extremely undercut by the record of Alaska (sharing wealth with the people) which she made more progressive.

She doesn't have the lights to figure out what she's talkin' about, let alone collate the issues into a coherent position.

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flydye45
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Yes, Red. Rather, Jack Ryan, Eisenstadt. Editorial...malingering. Pushing unflattering stories on one party, quieting unflattering stories the other. Bald character assassination of Palin (not that I disagree with Donald for once. Palin wasn't ready NOW. Too bad everyone in media tried to "Ford" her like Chevy Chase did so she will NEVER have an opportunity to run again. Can't have a charismatic Republican)

No media bias. No sir. All these things are truly coincidental.

(Holds envelope to head) January, expect TONS of good coverage from Iraq...much of which is reporting from CURRENT events. Because things happening now isn't news until it's useful.

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Gaoics79
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quote:
Dude

Palin was falsely accused, you bought it, and now you think she is the stupidest vp candidate ever.

I think I was already on the record as thinking she was the most ignorant, least prepared VP candidate ever prior to the Africa story.

I'll admit though, she may not be the stupidest. Certainly she's probably up there, but maybe there were a few that were stupider.

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flydye45
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So having apparant faux reporting driving your knowledge of Palin, you still think you have an accurate snapshot?

Granted, she cannot name all 57 states, but did anyone decide to probe Obama with any kind of quizzing questions? If we are playing that game, let's be bipartisan. Imagine if the MSM (it is to laugh) ran the 57 question gaffe for 3 days straight? I'd say that's worth a percentage point or two. The best thing to happen to Obama was the death of Tim Russert.

quote:
Couric shed some light on her preparation for the interviews: Beforehand, she sought advice from former senator Sam Nunn and Council on Foreign Relations president Richard Haas [actually, it’s Haass]. They told her to draw Palin out on her geopolitical worldview and urged her to let the governor speak at length without interrupting her. Maybe she should bring them along with her when she takes over at Meet the Press?
Did anyone attempt to do this with Obama? Not Katie. Nunn's working on Obama's transition team, btw.
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RickyB
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Um, yet again: These pranksters are NOT the ones who spread the story, meaning their existence and antics don't matter to the story one bit. It has yet to be proved or disproved. We know she didn't know who the NAFTA signatories are. If that's not enough, ESADSFAFM
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DonaldD
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I'm unclear on why allowing her to speak without interruption is a bad thing.

And what is this thing about 57 states?

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TommySama
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Obama was on Meet the Press at least one, AFAIK.

I think if the Dems had thrown out a candidate who was so clearly ignorant they would have also been targeted him/her.

And whether or not this is true (these guys did not start the rumor apparently), there are plenty of other examples of how unprepared and ig'nant Palin was. Maybe Obama would have gotten torn up by Russert the second time around. Palin got taken apart by Katie Couric the first time around, during a controlled interview.

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flydye45
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Oh really? Who controlled it?

Obama has visited all 57 of them and still had one more to go, according to him. If we are going to highlight gaffes and make them primary fodder for our knowledge of candidates, then it needs to be fair. No doubt you know all about the "100 Year" quote from McCain. Yet your ignorance on the 57 state thing just proves my point. One side had air cover, the other didn't.

I won't say that this was sufficient to sink McCain's campaign by itself. He worked very hard to do that. Palin made some uninformed observations. However, bias is bias. The Right has few friends in the media, period.

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flydye45
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I said Tim Russert. Not that partisan hack Tom Brokaw. If you check back in May of 2008, Russert held his feet to the fire in ways that bobblehead Couric and Tom Brokaw do not. Honestly, I think Russert pulled his punches as well, but that's me.
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OpsanusTau
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Oddly, letting Obama, McCain, or Biden speak without interruption displays all of them as intelligent and well-informed statesmen who occasionally misspeak or make gaffes but have a clear idea of what they are trying to say and how to convey it to an audience.

Letting Palin speak without interruption displays her as a person who literally cannot connect one thought to another in a coherent way for her audience.

Fly, I don't know why you are still defending this woman. She was a losing battle from the start, and it had nothing to do with her being "conservative" (which in my opinion she is not, really).

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Gaoics79
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quote:
So having apparant faux reporting driving your knowledge of Palin, you still think you have an accurate snapshot?
I didn't come to my conclusion about Palin based on any "faux pas". I came to my conclusion based on watching her in action, during the Couric interview, and then subsequently in the vice presidential debate. Her performance in both unscripted events, was abysmal.

In the Couric interview, it's not even the fact that she didn't know what specific "Bush doctrine" Couric was asking about. That was, perhaps, an unfair question. And if Palin had said "which Bush doctrine", or given some answer to suggest that she had the foggiest idea what Couric was talking about, well that would have been something.

But she didn't seem to know of any Bush doctrine, or have any idea how to even approach the question. She was like a deer caught in the headlights. Then she started rambling into non-sequiters. It was just embarrassing.

In the debate, she would just completely ignore questions and start rambling off onto her prepared stump speech.

The woman was so hopeless that after a while, they could only have her give joint interviews with John McCain, who basically was there to play defence for her. She was so completely outmatched that she couldn't even handle an interview on her own.

Even Bush could get in front of a camera and talk for a few minutes without embarrassing himself, at least 85% of the time.

So what happened Fly, did the liberal media apply a special "idiot" filter to her live TV appearances to make her appear to be an ignorant bumpkin totally out of her depth, or was that her deliberate campaign strategy to appeal to the anti-intellectual idiot vote, i.e. Joe Sixpack?

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flydye45
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[LOL]

Let BIDEN speak at length. Biden? Please don't tease me like that. It would be a gift from Heaven.

quote:
But speaking from the kishkas can get a politician into trouble, and as Biden prepares to debate Sarah Palin tomorrow, some Democrats are worried. On the trail last week, the downside was on full display, as Biden mangled historical facts and twice contradicted his own campaign. The gaffes piled up at such a rate that Republicans dedicated a website to tracking them.

His emotional reactions sometimes appear to drive him to fudge answers. When CBS's Katie Couric prodded him about an Obama ad criticizing McCain for not knowing how to use a computer, Biden called one of his own campaign's ads "terrible" and declared that if he'd known about it beforehand, "we'd never have done it." Later, he not only had to soften his criticism but also admit he had never even seen the ad.

Waxing indignant about President Bush's response to the financial crisis, he also told Couric that when the stock market crashed in 1929, "FDR got on television" and explained to the American people what happened. In fact, Herbert Hoover was president and radio was the medium of the era.

Even for a politician in a fiercely competitive campaign, Biden has an overdeveloped sense of hyperbole. He speaks sotto voce about the gravity of the historical moment, dispenses hard-luck father's cheer to the downtrodden with a lusty growl - "Get up!" - and at times weeps at the mention of his wife and infant daughter's deaths in a car accident 36 years ago.


web page

HIS fudge is a tasty treat. Not like that Palin hussy.

But I am not defending Palin; I'm excoriating the press.

Their idiot (Biden) gets a lovable puff piece on how he connects to the crowd, despite his bouts of idiocy. Palin gets a piece about her idiocy, despite connecting well with the crows.

But I'm used to that.

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flydye45
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quote:
So what happened Fly, did the liberal media apply a special "idiot" filter to her live TV appearances to make her appear to be an ignorant bumpkin totally out of her depth, or was that her deliberate campaign strategy to appeal to the anti-intellectual idiot vote, i.e. Joe Sixpack?
Are you denying that editing can make a HUGE difference? (Also, see above re Palin)

Let me posit an interview. Bolded areas are snipped...purely for timing issues [Wink]

Couric: Mr. Obama, what is your position on Tbilisi?

Obama (Temporary brain fart): Tbilisi?

Couric: The capial of Georgia?

Obama: OH!

Tick

Tick

Tick

Tick


Obama: That is a difficult question. It has less to do with what we want to do, then what we CAN do. My policy position is...

Not that any news organization would do something like that...

[ November 18, 2008, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: flydye45 ]

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RickyB
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Obama referred to the 57 states he visited. He omitted the "and territories" part.

And Biden has foot-in-mouthitis. Not the same at all as not knowing the very basics. Please, fly. The elections are over. You can admit the woman is ignorant about most world affairs.

[ November 18, 2008, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: RickyB ]

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KnightEnder
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She should join Ornery. I am ashamed of how ignorant I was of what was going on in the world, other than sports and...well sports, until I joined here. And then y'all turned me into a flaming liberal. Maybe that will happen to her.

Really though I find her lack of knowledge less disturbing than McCain picking her as his running mate (though Bush wasn't all that knowledgeable before he was elected so maybe he figured it was no big deal)

Are we going to get the old McCain that I really liked and would have been okay voting for now? I sure hope so.

Sorry for the slight derail. I still haven't figured out what this thread is about.

KE

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KnightEnder
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Although I could have named NAFTA countries and I bet she could as well. You never have those moments when your bran freezes? You know; damn if you hadn't asked me I'd have known the answer? Maybe the pressure got to her a little. Some people freeze up under certain kinds of pressure. (I don't know what the circumstances were in which she was asked that question?)

It's over. She's not the smartest woman in the world, apparently Hilary is, but if she will quietly go back to Alaska I'd like to leave her alone. As much as I love Tina Fey she has talent and can do a lot of other stuff.

KE

[ November 18, 2008, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: KnightEnder ]

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RickyB
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Bush wasn't that knowledgeable after he took office either. You gotta be curious to learn stuff, and ole George never was. First he had the certainty of the silver spoon, and then the certainty of the imaginary friend. Certainty precludes curiosity.
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RickyB
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KE, she had way too many of them. I bet she could name all three, but wasn't sure there weren't others.

You have to remember - she's not your average ditz. She's a religious freak.

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Stevarooni
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quote:
Originally posted by RickyB:
KE, she had way too many of them. I bet she could name all three, but wasn't sure there weren't others.

In all fairness, I can understand this to some degree; if it weren't something I'd read up on a bit, I might wonder if Guatemala or Belize had just kind of been added. Sure, I'd say the countries that are in North America, but many times a name is just a bit off.
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Pinochio
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Obama can say all the dumb things he wants and the press and hacks will never question his intellect.

I fail to see how a 'stupid' woman could have out-maneuvered the embeded GOP in Alaskan politics and beat them at their own game. Palin has had every disadvantage at every turn in her political career in Alaska and she has always outsmarted and out performed her opposition who had a thousand times more money, power and pull than she did.

Only a damn idiot could have the audacity and elitist mindset to be able to call this very accomplished women 'stupid'.

Of course I'm just a dumb right-wing farmer who doesnt know anything and has no business questiong who liberal elitist think are stupid.

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Haggis
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quote:
I fail to see how a 'stupid' woman could have out-maneuvered the embeded GOP in Alaskan politics and beat them at their own game. Palin has had every disadvantage at every turn in her political career in Alaska and she has always outsmarted and out performed her opposition who had a thousand times more money, power and pull than she did.

An impressive feat, indeed, considering the population of Alaska is roughly the same size as Austin, Texas. There are 15 other U.S. cities that have more residents than the entire state of Alaska.
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Pinochio
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I'd challenge you to throw the incumbent GOP or DNC out of the county you live in. Consrvatives have been trying to get rid of the corrup GOP in my county for 30 years - and its a near impossibility (of course you would actually have to have some experience to understand these things) Even an elitist like yourself would crumble and fail miserably. What Palin went up against was a major feat regardless if you are able to comprehend it or not. Even more impressive is the fact that her political career would have came about much easier if she simply gave up her values and fell in line with the incumbent GOP. This would be a much easier path but she choose the more difficult but virtuous route --- a little fact that liberal elitist simply cant grasp.

Your arrogance, however, tells me that you wouldnt be able to see real leadership and ability if it was staring you in your face.

What Palin accomplished the DNC couldnt do for decades and left wing zealots will never give her credit. absolutely pathetic.

[ November 18, 2008, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: Pinochio ]

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Pinochio
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..

[ November 18, 2008, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: Pinochio ]

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DonaldD
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Haggis you... dirty elitist you!
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