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Author Topic: Supreme Court Chief Justice Orders Obama to Provide Valid Birth Certificate by Dec. 1
Ron Lambert
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Is the election really over? The results are not final until the Electoral College votes on Dec. 15. And overlooked by the mainstream media is the fact that the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, David Souter, in addition to dismissing attorney Phillip J. Berg's lawsuit challenging Barack Obama's status as a "natural born citizen," also sent to Obama a Writ of Certiorari requiring him to provide a valid birth certificate by Dec. 1.

So far, all that has been provided is a "certificate of live birth," that does not list the hospital where Obama was born, and lacks other verifications that would be on a valid Birth Certificate. It is claimed that the birth certificate for some reason has been sealed by order of the governor of Hawaii, Linda Lingle.

Berg's lawsuit was dismissed because he lacked standing, as a private citizen, to make the challenge. But the court, as defender of the Constitution, does have the right on its own initiative to issue the writ Souter issued requiring that Obama prove he is a natural born U.S. citizen.

Here is a link to an article discussing these issues:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=80072

The certificate of live birth could have been issued after Obama's mother returned to Hawaii after giving birth to Obama in Kenya. Several of Obama's Kenyan relatives say he was born in Kenya, including his grandmother.

Here is a link to a YouTube recording of Obama's grandmother claiming this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4FqVRWgrNw&eurl=http://blog.barofintegrity.us/2008/11/01/barack-nate-dhalani.aspx?ref=rss

Obama supporters may not even be aware of this issue, since they suppose that with the dismissal of Berg's suit, the issue of Obama's standing as a natural born citizen has gone away. But Justice Souter has given Obama a deadline: he must produce a valid birth certificate by Dec. 1.

If this is not done, then Obama will be in defiance of the U.S. Supreme Court, which does not take kindly to any disregard for its authority.

The electors who vote in the Electoral College on Dec. 15 are not bound by law to vote the way the states they represent voted. If in fact the U.S. Supreme Court does not certify Obama meets the requirement of the Constitution for being a natural born citizen, then the electors will have to choose whether to abide by the constitution or ignore it. This would be no small thing for them to decide.

Also, at the swearing-in ceremony for the president, he is administered the oath of office by the chief justice of the Supreme Court. What if Souter refuses to do this?

We thought the courts were involved in the election of 2000. Just wait--it may be we haven't seen anything yet!

If the mainstream news media had done a professional job, and properly vetted Obama two years ago, when he first announced his candidacy for president, we would not be facing the horrendous prospects we are facing now, of the election coming unraveled by a Supreme Court Ruling and an Electoral College vote that really means something. How in the world is the governor of Hawaii being allowed to get away with sealing Obama's birth certificate--if it even exists?

[ November 20, 2008, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]

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MattP
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quote:
Mr. Berg has been receiving phone calls today asking for a copy of "the order from the Supreme Court requiring that Obama produce his citizenship documentation."

Mr. Berg has not received notification of any such order or anything similar to it, nor is it posted on the Supreme Court website.

This must be regarded as an unfounded rumor until it appears on the Supreme Court website or Mr. Berg receives notification.

http://www.obamacrimes.com/index.php/news/56-rumors-of-order-form-the-supreme-court-unfounded

That note is from Philip J. Berg's web site and since Berg is the source of these rumors...

[ November 20, 2008, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: MattP ]

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Ron Lambert
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MattP, this report I have related appears in hundreds of blogs and other websites. Beware of letting yourself be persuaded by wishful thinking.

Berg is the not authority. He is a private citizen who was ruled not to have the standing necessary to make a constitutional challenge. Souter and his staff are the authority for whether he issued the writ of certiori. If you want to prove this is a false story, you need to get an official denial of it from them. It would seem like requiring a valid birth certificate is very reasonable, and the Supreme Court does have for its first duty upholding the constitution.

We will know after Dec. 1 if this is true or not; if it is, we will certainly hear about it. Even the New York Times will not be able to ignore it.

[ November 20, 2008, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]

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MattP
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quote:
MattP, this report I have related appears in hundreds of blogs and other websites. Beware of letting yourself be persuaded by wishful thinking.
Of course it's on hundreds of blogs. It's juicy stuff. Only there's no evidence that it's actually true. Those that source the rumor name Berg, including the article you linked which says:

quote:
Berg said he was told by a clerk for Souter that his application for an injunction to stay the election was denied. But he also said the defendants "are required to respond to the Writ of Certiorari" by Dec. 1.
Berg is now the one saying it is an unfounded rumor.
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Storm Saxon
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It's been grist for the conservative rumor mill for months.
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scifibum
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quote:
MattP, this report I have related appears in hundreds of blogs and other websites. Beware of letting yourself be persuaded by wishful thinking.
Irony just sploded my brain.
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KnightEnder
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God, I thought I was the only one who saw it! [LOL]

KE

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DonaldD
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Just another case of Matt being wrong.
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DonaldD
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BTW Ron - that would be a writ of Certiorari
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The Drake
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http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

among other things, you'll find a reproduction of the original birth announcement in the Honolulu paper and a long description of Hawaii's practices regarding certificates. The one shown is sufficient to prove citizenship to the State Department and get a passport issued. (despite the fact that it doesn't list the hospital, room number, and the nurses on duty).

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Pete at Home
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Note that Souter is one of the three justices with the strongest anti-Bush opinion in the Bush v. Gore decision.
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Jordan
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I just learned something new! I thought that any citizen, no matter their country of birth, could run for President. [Smile]
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G2
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Check out the 2008 term court orders from the SC. Nothing there about this that I saw. The blog storm it created is impressive but I'm gonna have to call bull**** on this story.
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DonaldD
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just keeping track - that makes it MattP, The Drake and G2 all wrong so far.
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MattP
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quote:
just keeping track - that makes it Matt, The Drake and G2 all wrong so far.
I admit, the odds of a triple refutation seem extremely slim.
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DonaldD
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Well, you have all disagreed with Ron on a point of fact, so...
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beefprime
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quote:

Also, at the swearing-in ceremony for the president, he is administered the oath of office by the chief justice of the Supreme Court. What if Souter refuses to do this?

Souter is not the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.
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G2
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quote:
Originally posted by MattP:
quote:
just keeping track - that makes it Matt, The Drake and G2 all wrong so far.
I admit, the odds of a triple refutation seem extremely slim.
I suppose the only thing left is a triple dog refutation? Or does etiquette demand a double dog refutation before the triple refutation? I think it does ... where's Ralphie when I need him?
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DonaldD
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beefprime, you haven't been following: Souter is now and was at the time Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.
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Haggis
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Beefprime, just to let you know, Ron has never, ever, ever been refuted on these boards. Therefore, you are wrong and Souter must, by definition, be the chief justice of SCOTUS.
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JoshCrow
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Ron, I hear the Onion is recruiting new talent these days.
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Gaoics79
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Well you know, fair is fair. If Obama can't produce the valid birth certificate, then he can't be president.

I'm sure the Democrats, and particularly the African American community will understand. The law is the law.

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DonaldD
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jason, that humour is too dry even for me. My lips are chapping.
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RickyB
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Ron, when G2 abandons ship, you may want to say "It seems I was wrong about this one".
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Storm Saxon
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I'm just curious what's going to happen on December 2d with this rumor. I mean, it's too juicy to die, so what's the excuse going to be? Liberal cabal? Super Obama Powers? ACORN secret agents?
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Wayward Son
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Oooh..."The Man from ACORN." Now that sounds like a hit TV series if I ever heard one... [Smile]
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DonaldD
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Storm Saxon - haven't you heard of the Law of Fungibility of Reality (the RL axiom)? One option is that it will remain December 1 until, among other things, Souter had been acknowledged as the chief justice of the SC
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Haggis
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quote:

I'm just curious what's going to happen on December 2d with this rumor.

Hello! It will be proof that Obama has begun to consolidate his power as a first step to becoming the American Hitler.

The lack of any reporting on this by the MSM will serve to corroborate this hypothesis.

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Storm Saxon
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Donald,

I think stopping time is beyond even the formidable powers of the conservative blogosphere, but I'm open to the idea. I guess it would be kind of like Groundhog Day for America until one day the country wakes up and realizes what a horrible mistake its made and makes amends by throwing Obama into a volcano.

By the way, I just realized what a cool name 'groundhog' is.

[ November 20, 2008, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: Storm Saxon ]

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G2
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quote:
Originally posted by RickyB:
Ron, when G2 abandons ship, you may want to say "It seems I was wrong about this one".

Abandon ship? Was I ever on board? The only thing I see unlikely here is the SC order. I have no idea what Obama's status is as a natural born citizen. If it came down to it, I really think most of you wouldn't care.
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DonaldD
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Once again, G2 fails the motive speculation test.

Why do you believe that those who disagree with you wouldn't care that the president elect was actually illegitemate?

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G2
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Recent history.
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DonaldD
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Because a president elect in recent history was shown to be illegitimate, is that it?
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G2
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No, because his supporters are exactly what your last post demonstrated.
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DonaldD
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Errr... his supporters tend to show you the flaws in your reasoning?

Seriously, you made an accusation "I really think most of you wouldn't care [whether, having been elected, Obama could legally be considered ineligible for office]"

You've essentially accused "most of you" (most people making fun of Ron? Most Obama supporters?) of supporting illegal activity, specifically as it relates to selecting the person in charge of running the country. It's a pretty strong accusation. And you don't have the nads to back it up?

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Gaoics79
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quote:
Abandon ship? Was I ever on board? The only thing I see unlikely here is the SC order. I have no idea what Obama's status is as a natural born citizen. If it came down to it, I really think most of you wouldn't care.
See G2, my take on this is that now that Obama has been elected, even if you could prove that he wasn't a natural born citizen, for the good of the country, I'd happily bury the evidence and whistle real loud if anyone tried to bring it up.

This is something any patriotic person who does not want to see his country blow up in mass riots and chaos would do.

I realize you really really wish that the Republicans had won the election instead of the Democrats, but at what price is victory? What's the point of winning an election if the country is torn to pieces in the process?

Would you really want to overturn Obama's presidency at this stage in the game over something as trivial as where a person was born?

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Stevarooni
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quote:
Originally posted by jasonr:
See G2, my take on this is that now that Obama has been elected, even if you could prove that he wasn't a natural born citizen, for the good of the country, I'd happily bury the evidence and whistle real loud if anyone tried to bring it up.

Not to say that this isn't total B.S. from the very beginning that's been disproven long ago, but...well, this is more than a legal requirement. It's a Constitutional requirement for the job. While I agree that it would have some very nasty results (I'd stop short of "civil war") I much prefer living in a shaken country run by the rule of law than one in which the law is discarded when it's inconvenient.
quote:
Originally posted by jasonr:
Would you really want to overturn Obama's presidency at this stage in the game over something as trivial as where a person was born?

I wouldn't want to overturn a Presidency over something trivial, but given the short list of requirements for the Presidency, I don't think that any of them are trivial. I would want the election 24-year old Representative or 29-year old Senator to be overturned, as well.

[ November 20, 2008, 07:14 PM: Message edited by: Stevarooni ]

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FiredrakeRAGE
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jasonr,

I agree to a point. I would prefer Obama to be a citizen (proven or otherwise). However, should evidence prove the contrary, where he was born is not trivial - it is in the Constitution.

[ November 20, 2008, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: FiredrakeRAGE ]

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Haggis
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Of course, this is a complete non-issue. It's a fabrication cooked up and incubated in the lab of right-wing talk radio.

Talk about The Big Lie...

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Gaoics79
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quote:
Not to say that this isn't total B.S. from the very beginning that's been disproven long ago, but...well, this is more than a legal requirement. It's a Constitutional requirement for the job. While I agree that it would have some very nasty results (I'd stop short of "civil war") I much prefer living in a shaken country run by the rule of law than one in which the law is discarded when it's inconvenient.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that if it ever came before a court and it was shown that he was not born in the USA, the court should ignore the constitution.

What I'm saying is that given the consequences of overturning this election, I'd be quite happy to stick my head in the sand, bury the issue, and just not talk about it at all.

quote:
I wouldn't want to overturn a Presidency over something trivial, but given the short list of requirements for the Presidency, I don't think that any of them are trivial. I would want the election 24-year old Representative or 29-year old Senator to be overturned, as well.
It's a tricky point. The policy underlying the rule certainly isn't trivial, but in an individual case such as Obama's, there is simply no reason to see why his not being born in the USA is a detriment to his ability to be a good president. In a very real sense, in this specific instance, it is a trivial issue.

So yes, if it ever came before a court I would concede that the court would have no choice but to enforce the constitution. But why you would be eager to dig into this and push the issue, knowing the horrendous consequences of being right, is beyond me.

Like the atom bomb, the question of what is possible and what we actually ought to be doing are not always in agreement. Before taking a course of action, however legal, it behooves us to ask ourselves if the consequences are worth whatever benefit we think we're getting out of it.

I would hope that even someone like Ron Lambert would see the horrible destructive effect reversing the election at this stage in the game would have on American democracy and society, not to mention race relations in the country.

But then again, he probably thinks Obama is the anti-Christ, so maybe I'm taking too much for granted.

[ November 20, 2008, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: jasonr ]

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