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Author Topic: Supreme Court Chief Justice Orders Obama to Provide Valid Birth Certificate by Dec. 1
cherrypoptart
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I very much doubt this story will go away. There are still enough journalists and investigative reporters more interested in a good story, in getting the scoop, than in hiding the truth for the sake of "insert excuse here".

Now here is what I'm talking about. More questions than answers, but all of the right questions:

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79900

A Free Press For A People
MoneyNetDaily

Doubts persist about Obama birth certificate
Considerable evidence still points to candidate's birth in Kenya

Posted: November 02, 2008
9:21 pm Eastern

By Jerome R. Corsi
© 2008 WorldNetDaily

Gov. Linda Lingle, R-Hawaii

HONOLULU – Even though Hawaii officials now claim to have verified the authenticity of Sen. Barack Obama's birth certificate – in hopes of ending widespread speculation and even multiple lawsuits challenging the Democrat candidate's constitutional qualification to be president – it turns out there is still reason for serious questioning.

In fact, there is considerable evidence that Obama was born in Kenya, not in Hawaii as the candidate and his campaign have maintained.

As WND reported from Honolulu last week, Gov. Linda Lingle instructed the Hawaii Department of Health to make sure no one in the press obtains access to Obama's original birth certificate. Lingle's letter to WND made clear that the original doctor-generated and hospital-released birth certificate on file with the state's health department would be released to the press if Obama so requested – but to date the candidate has made no such request.

The governor's communication with WND also left ambiguous whether the Obama birth certificate on file with the Department of Health was originally generated by a Hawaii doctor after giving birth to Obama in Hawaii, or generated in Kenya and subsequently registered by the Obama family in Hawaii.

On April 5, WND conducted a telephone interview from New Jersey to Kenya with Sayid Obama, brother of Barack Obama senior and the uncle of Sen. Barack Obama. The interview is reported in the book "The Obama Nation: Leftist Politics and the Cult of Personality" on pages 21-25, 26-28, 29, 30, 34 and 103.

In the interview, Sayid acknowledged he was not sure whether his brother, Barack Obama senior, practiced Islam or whether Barack Obama junior was born in Kenya or in Hawaii.

He did remember distinctly that Obama junior had visited Africa in 1987, then a second time in 1992 when Obama junior traveled to Kenya with his wife-to-be Michelle; and a third time, as a U.S. senator, when Obama returned with Michelle in 2006.

Sayid acknowledged that his father (Sen. Obama's grandfather) was wealthy in the Luo tribe, a practicing Muslim who traveled the world with the British, and insisted that Barack Obama senior attend school and was quite intelligent in school.

WND had scheduled a second telephone interview for April 25 with Auma Obama, Sen. Barack Obama's sister in Kenya, but Auma canceled the interview and apologized to WND after Sen. Obama's campaign forbade her or any other of the Obama family to conduct any further interviews with WND, following the interview with Sayid Obama.

The issue of the authenticity of Obama's original birth certificate is further muddied by communications from Sen. Obama's half-sister, Maya Soetoro, who has claimed Obama was born in two different Hawaii hospitals.

In a November 2004 interview with the Rainbow Newsletter, Maya told reporters her half-brother Sen. Barack Obama was born on Aug. 4, 1961, at Queens Medical Center in Honolulu; then in February 2008, Maya told reporters for the Honolulu Star-Bulletin that Obama was at the Kapiolani Medical Center for Women and Children.

Last week in Hawaii, WND retained a top private investigator with extensive FBI training and tasked with visiting both the Queens Medical Center and the Kaliolani Medical Center to investigate claims that Obama birth certificates existed at either hospital.

But the private investigator reported that on Thursday and Friday of last week, sheriff's deputies were stationed at both hospitals to fend off press inquiries about Obama's birth certificate.

Get the book that started it all, Jerome Corsi's "The Obama Nation," autographed by the author, exclusively from WND's online store for the amazing low price of just $4.95.

On Thursday, KGMB9 News reported that Hawaii's top health official, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, was trying to defuse rumors that Barack Obama was born in Kenya by saying she had seen the birth certificate herself, but said Hawaii laws aimed at stopping identity theft prevented her from releasing the document despite multiple requests to do so.

Fukino failed to resolve the controversy by disclosing whether the "official document" she saw had been generated in a Kenyan hospital or in a Hawaiian hospital.

The controversy is further fueled by a video posted on YouTube in which Obama's Kenyan grandmother Sarah claims to have witnessed personally Obama's birth in Kenya. The YouTube.com video tape also features Sayid Obama who was interviewed by WND.

To date, Obama and his campaign have refused to disclose the name of the doctor delivering the candidate or the precise hospital where he was born.

The main reason doubts persist regarding Obama's birth certificate is this question: If an original Hawaii-doctor-generated and Hawaii-hospital-released Obama birth certificate exists, why wouldn't the senator and his campaign simply order the document released and end the controversy?

That Obama has not ordered Hawaii officials to release the document leaves doubts as to whether an authentic Hawaii birth certificate exists for Obama.

Rather, the failure to release the document fuels the theory – true or not – that the Obama family, shortly after Obama's birth overseas, returned to Hawaii and registered at the Hawaii Department of Health the original Obama birth certificate that had been issued by the doctor and hospital that delivered Obama in Kenya.


----------------------------------------

So far the answers we've gotten have been non-answers mired in obvious obfuscation. Obama is worried about being a victim of identity theft? Maybe he should get Life Lock!

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Ron Lambert
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Canadian, that is a good question. But contrary to the image most liberals (a.k.a. Democrats) seem to have of Fox News, it is not really a conservative, right-of-center organization. It only seems that way by way of contrast with all the other media organizations that are so far out to the left that the middle looks like the right. Fox News is the best TV news source because it is the only one that still tries to provide a balanced view. Bill O'Reille is closer to the middle-moderate than he is to the conservative right. Sean Hannity is probably the only real conservative staff member. And like most conservative professionals, he appears to want some good evidence, real substance, before he runs with something. As when he broke the Jeremiah Wright sermon tapes. The question about Obama's status as "natural born" is only a question at present, and there is not much anyone can add until the Supreme Court has decided whatever it is going to decide on Dec. 5. Since the election is over, and the majority made the deplorable decision they did, there is no real point in taking this up on air. My only point has been that there is a still existing issue, that still is going to be addressed in some fashion by the Supreme Court. Unless they decide to duck it.

[ November 25, 2008, 05:52 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]

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Wayward Son
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Here's a simple question that can be answered right away:

If someone was born somewhere else, would the Certificate of Live Birth list "Honolulu, Oahu, Honolulu" as the location of birth?

I would assume the answer would be "no." So if the Certificate of Birth reflects the information on the Birth Certificate, why does anyone need to see it?

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cherrypoptart
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I would think the answer would be no, unless there was fraud involved. If Obama was born in a hospital in Hawaii, who was the doctor? Is he or she still alive? Seems quite easy enough to clear up.

One other potential problem we have with all this cover up is pretty obvious. Many times the crimes committed in the cover-up are orders of magnitude worse than the original one, if there even was any original crime at all. So there is the potential for key individuals with vital information to start getting "Vince Fostered". That's why this should be cleared up as soon as possible, before we let time drag on and people die from various causes, natural and otherwise.

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NSCutler
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So, if Obama's first act as president is to launch airstrikes on Kenya, I guess some people are going to feel vindicated.
[Roll Eyes]

What is taking Mr. Berg so long with that recorded confession of Obama's grandmother anyway? My 10 year old nephew could have had that thing converted to an MP3 and put on the internets in two shakes of whatever it is the kids are shaking these days.

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cherrypoptart
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> NSCutler

> So, if Obama's first act as president is to launch airstrikes on Kenya, I guess some people are going to feel vindicated.

As they say in Mexico: Silver? Or lead? Your choice.

My guess is people will probably choose the silver. Obama and his henchmen will have plenty to go around now.

So though it's possible to have some Vince Fosters lying around soon enough, it's also entirely possible some people are going to see mysterious deposits in their bank accounts, or for those who like to keep their money fresh, perhaps they'll store it in plastic bags in their freezer. Maybe they'll get an ox or whatever they value over there in Kenya. So let's not get hasty with the jumping to conclusions yet about all the dirt naps. It's still possible to come to some understanding. An offer they can't refuse.

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TomDavidson
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You know, in all seriousness, I find this entire line of inquiry disgusting. It's petty beyond belief.
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Pete at Home
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And would you find this line of inquiry as disgusting if applied to McCain, Tom? 'Cause if memory serves correctly, you defended the crapper cop line of inquiry when applied to a Republican. I'm hard-pressed to contemplate a more disgusting line of inquiry than that one.
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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by cherrypoptart:
I would think the answer would be no, unless there was fraud involved. If Obama was born in a hospital in Hawaii, who was the doctor? Is he or she still alive? Seems quite easy enough to clear up.

His mother was a US citizen. Nothing more matters, unless someone can provide a primary source that there is a legitimate law that says otherwise.
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flydye45
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(Gets up from scanning horse) He's dead Jim!
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Ron Lambert
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Pyrtolin, for the third or fourth time, the U.S. Constitution has a special requirement for presidents, that they must be "natural born" citizens. As defined by the laws at the time that Barack Obama was born, his mother merely being an American citizen was not enough to confer on him the status of "natural born," if he were born in Kenya. If Obama was born in Kenya, then it would be a violation of the U.S. Constitution for him to assume the presidency. Period. No appeal. That is it. Unless because of the popularity of "Messiah" Obama, the consensus is to toss aside the Constitutional "natural born citizen" requirement. Without a vote to change the Constitution. Just arbitrarily ignore the highest law in the land. And if that decision is made, then why can't Governor Arnold Shwarzenegger of California run for president, even though he was born in Austria, and is only a naturalized citizen?

Arnie is very popular, though too liberal for my preference. I would prefer Sarah Palin in 2012. She is a genuine conservative.

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Ron Lambert
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Tom, the question of whether we should ignore the highest law in the land is not "petty beyond belief." If we want the Constitution changed, there is a prescribed course for changing it. Just arbitrarily tossing aside the "natural born citizen" requirement would not be responsible or legal. And if our government is not going to abide by the Consitution, then we are no longer a Constitutional Democracy.
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cherrypoptart
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It's going to be funny watching Obama take the oath to defend and uphold the Constitution if it's the case that he'll be breaking it by taking it.
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KnightEnder
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Damn it, Jim! I'm a doctor not a birth-certificatoligist!

Cherry, those dirty Mexicans stole that line from "Chisulm" a John Wayne movie. A Mexican bandit had stolen The Duke's cattle and when The Duke showed up to get them back the Mexican bandit told him he would sell them back to them. He asked The Duke if he brought gold? The Duke said; "No." Mexican Bandit; "Silver perhaps?" The Duke; "Nope, just lead." You can imagine what happened after that. Especially since Billy Bonny, Pat Garret, and Pepper were with him.

KE

[ November 26, 2008, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: KnightEnder ]

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Michelle
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
Tom, the question of whether we should ignore the highest law in the land is not "petty beyond belief." If we want the Constitution changed, there is a prescribed course for changing it. Just arbitrarily tossing aside the "natural born citizen" requirement would not be responsible or legal. And if our government is not going to abide by the Consitution, then we are no longer a Constitutional Democracy.

This is so true. If he was born in Kenya, at the very least all parties involved are committing an act of fraud, at the most, an act of treason.

I doubt seriously, that this is the case. I just can't see the Governor of Hawaii, who is a republican, as well as a good friend of Sarah Palin's playing along. It sounds more like to me the Governor sealed his birth-certificate record to respect his privacy. She is preventing his birth certificate from being posted all over cyber-space. Without the document to salivate upon, this has just blown into a kooky conspiracy.

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KnightEnder
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It's gonna be funny if it turns out his real name is John Doe Smith from Nowhereville, Kansas.

KE

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TomDavidson
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quote:
Tom, the question of whether we should ignore the highest law in the land is not "petty beyond belief."
That's not the question. The question of whether or not Obama is a natural-born citizen of this country has been pursued. Even ignoring the fact that every legal document examined has verified his birth status, the spirit of the Constitutional requirement -- that the President be a true native, unbeholden to another power -- is also fulfilled here.

To harp upon this, to speculate that maybe the documents certifying his status have been forged or altered or lied about, is not the behavior of sensible people. It is the behavior of xenophobes looking for any reason to reject someone who doesn't seem "American" enough. It is the behavior of cynical pundits trying to set up a Republican governor who'd otherwise be an unconstitutional pick. It is the last-ditch, desperate attempt of some pathetic losers to prevent the inevitable. And it is a feeble, grinding amusement for people who, deprived of success, must seek to irritate and degrade those who have succeeded.

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G2
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
Tom, the question of whether we should ignore the highest law in the land is not "petty beyond belief."
That's not the question. The question of whether or not Obama is a natural-born citizen of this country has been pursued. Even ignoring the fact that every legal document examined has verified his birth status, the spirit of the Constitutional requirement -- that the President be a true native, unbeholden to another power -- is also fulfilled here.

I don't think it has been pursued, not fully. Maybe what has been presented so far is "fake but accurate". The media has standards that are too low to rely on.
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:

To harp upon this, to speculate that maybe the documents certifying his status have been forged or altered or lied about, is not the behavior of sensible people. It is the behavior of xenophobes looking for any reason to reject someone who doesn't seem "American" enough. It is the behavior of cynical pundits trying to set up a Republican governor who'd otherwise be an unconstitutional pick. It is the last-ditch, desperate attempt of some pathetic losers to prevent the inevitable. And it is a feeble, grinding amusement for people who, deprived of success, must seek to irritate and degrade those who have succeeded.

Yeah, it would be like questioning the records from time in the Air National Guard in the 70's or something.

It the game the left created Tom. Don't get too worked up when the right decides to play.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
Cause if memory serves correctly, you defended the crapper cop line of inquiry when applied to a Republican. I'm hard-pressed to contemplate a more disgusting line of inquiry than that one.
As a side note: yes, I thoroughly defended the decision to arrest someone for illegally soliciting sex in a public bathroom. If Craig hadn't wanted such behavior to be illegal, he was in a better position than most people to see it legalized.

----------

quote:
I don't think it has been pursued, not fully. Maybe what has been presented so far is "fake but accurate"
We've already seen people on this thread suggest that no document could be presented to prove this to their satisfaction, and instead eyewitnesses to the birth must be produced. And I'm confident that the veracity of those eyewitnesses would be questioned if they vouched for the "wrong" answer.

[ November 26, 2008, 06:31 PM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]

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scifibum
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I really hate "you started it" justifications.

---
quote:

Ode to straw graspers

Oh ye of little doubt -
What strength of mind you clout
your opponents with.
What extrapolations you extract
from merest aspirants to fact.

The celebrations you conjure
for your idee fixe du jour!

How comest thou to such vigor?
What substitutes for mental rigor?

Strive on, noble seekers of Truth,
and let not odds you sway, forsooth.
Plumb the depths of every rumor,
lest we stem an executive tumor.



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Everard
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"I don't think it has been pursued, not fully."

Fully? No. We haven't yet tracked down the midwife. Short of that, its been fully pursued. If you remain unconvinced, its solely because you operate in a realm where evidence is not an indicator of reality.

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jimskater
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By my calculations, it's after Dec 1st in DC. Evidently, Barack Obama has proven to the satisfaction of SCOTUS that he is a native born citizen.

I guess this thread can be locked now?

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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
Pyrtolin, for the third or fourth time, the U.S. Constitution has a special requirement for presidents, that they must be "natural born" citizens. As defined by the laws at the time that Barack Obama was born, his mother merely being an American citizen was not enough to confer on him the status of "natural born," if he were born in Kenya.

Prove it. People keep claiming that, but no one has yet to provide chapter and verse to make that a valid claim.
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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by jimskater:
By my calculations, it's after Dec 1st in DC. Evidently, Barack Obama has proven to the satisfaction of SCOTUS that he is a native born citizen.

I guess this thread can be locked now?

Dec 5 was the day. Till then we have to keep putting up with rabid conspiracy theorists who keep this joke alive.
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The Drake
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I predict that even if a photograph were produced with the gynecologist holding up a copy of the Honolulu Star-Bulletin next to a squalling Barack Obama, we'd still see people claiming illegitimacy. The photo would be fake (just like people first claimed the "certificate of live birth" was fake, before they claimed it was inadequate), or he lost his natural-born status when his Mom moved to Indonesia, or some other garbage. The standard of proof met is already enough for the State Department to confirm citizenship. That is the law.

There is no law that says you must produce original documentation from your actual birth date in order to be considered a natural-born citizen. What is being asked for now is beyond the law. What foolishness to claim that this is just about following the law.

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munga
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by "natural born" they meant, "naturally born white"
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cb
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quote:
Originally posted by The Drake:
I predict that even if a photograph were produced with the gynecologist holding up a copy of the Honolulu Star-Bulletin next to a squalling Barack Obama, we'd still see people claiming illegitimacy.

All anyone has asked for is the original, typewritten birth certificate. That is all that has been asked for the last 2-3 years. You're right, by law Obama doesn't have to produce it. But, “why doesn't he” is really the biggest question isn’t it?

quote:
We've already seen people on this thread suggest that no document could be presented to prove this to their satisfaction, and instead eyewitnesses to the birth must be produced.
No, all we want it the original, typewritten BC. Eye witnesses and placenta are not necessary. It's not like it's the first time an original BC has been requested and made available to the public by a public official.

There are citizens with some questions. Clear them up Obama. What are you hiding? You say you are the Red States' president just as you are the Blue; so show respect for some Red Sate people with a legitimate question and show the original BC.

quote:
by "natural born" they meant, "naturally born white"
Oh munga, that was totally beneath you. [Frown] Only the very leftish kind of lefty cries "bigot" every time someone comes up with something against their guy. There is so much about Obama’s politics to despise; his not being white is so far from being an issue it's laughable. [Eek!]

quote:
It is the last-ditch, desperate attempt of some pathetic losers to prevent the inevitable. And it is a feeble, grinding amusement for people who, deprived of success, must seek to irritate and degrade those who have succeeded.
This sounds vaguely familiar. Didn’t you people need counseling after Bush won? Yes now I remember “"post-election selection trauma," or PEST, which include: feelings of withdrawal, feelings of isolation, emotional anger and bitterness, loss of appetite, sleeplessness, nightmares, pervasive moodiness including endless sulking, and being excessively worried about the direction of the country. [Embarrassed]

How soon you all forget that you were the losing party for the last 6 of 8 years and how very poorly you took it. I find it mildly amusing that the acidic "Bush Haters" who spent the last 8 years tearing down a sitting president, refusing to call him Mr. President, looking under every rock and stone for some dirt on the man, now think those who simply want assurance that Obama, who has done some pretty slippery things in his past elections, isn’t going to get away with causing a Constitutional Crisis and we are somehow out of line! [Roll Eyes]

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scifibum
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"those who simply want assurance that Obama, who has done some pretty slippery things in his past elections, isn’t going to get away with causing a Constitutional Crisis"

This is such a load of crap.

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kenmeer livermaile
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I see the my side is the right side partisan inanity has found its new self.

What about those missing military records?

I wanna Swift Boat for Xmas too!

Does this tinfoil make my head look fat?

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Wayward Son
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Nice summary, scifibum. [Smile]

The problem is, we have a document that was written based on the information from the original birth certificate, that shows there is no problem with Obama's birth status. If there were, it should be reflected on the document. Yet, this is not good enough.

Why does anyone expect to find out any more information from the original birth certificate?

Which means, of course, that once the original typewritten birth certificate is released, it will be scrutinized for any imperfections that might indicate a problem. From that, it will be extrapolated that there is a problem, and more evidence will be required to prove that there isn't a problem. Then that evidence will be scrutinized for any imperfections, which will then be claimed to show that it isn't true, etc. etc. etc.

You can play this game forever.

I would wager that, if those critics only wanted to verify what is written on the original birth certificate, Obama would immediately release it. But they don't want to do that. They want to question the accuracy of that document. And as long as they can question the accuracy and legitimacy of every piece of evidence that is presented, they can keep alive the hope of keeping Obama out of office.

It is a common game among conspiracy theorists, and one Obama apparently is not willing to play.

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munga
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CB-

it wasn't "beneath" me, it was just clever.

Obama is so American this is a joke of the tin-foil class of KKK and it is very silly to watch and deserves all the poking and enjoyment we can get from it, inasmuch as it is also a reminder of how far we really need to come.

Please, let us have our laughs so we can explain the tears.

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cherrypoptart
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There is another question here that I alluded to earlier when asking about whether it would even matter to a lot of Obama supporters if he was born abroad.

And that new question is regarding the fairness of this whole line of inquiry.

No matter what actually happened, Obama was in America very shortly after his birth, either right after it or within a few days. Isn't that good enough?

What are the odds of anyone becoming President of the United States of America?

Just ball-parking it, but... pretty long. Obama went through all of his life in preparation for this culminating victory. He's obviously studied hard by his eloquence, intelligence, and knowledge. He's played a very deft game of trying not to alienate too many people, and run a masterful campaign with promises vague enough to inspire hope in so many people, hope for whatever they imagined needed most to get done. Okay... getting off track here, but the point is that he did it. He said "yes we can" and he made it happen.

Now all of that should be taken away?

And for what?

Just because maybe his mom didn't pull a Palin and fly while pregnant to have her son born in the right place? Obama had very little say in the matter. It's not his fault. Why take away everything he's worked so hard for, take away the hopes and dreams and expectations of the millions of people who voted for him? And do it just because of where he was born. He was only a few days old, but he still managed to get here as fast as he could!

---------------------------------------------

I think this kind of sentiment is at the heart of the denial for the necessity of absolute clarity, of full disclosure, on the issue. In the end, to many Obama suppoters, it really doesn't matter. And they have their reasons why that is so, even if they won't admit it, even to themselves.

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Adam Masterman
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quote:
But, “why doesn't he” is really the biggest question isn’t it?
How many times does this have to be answered for you to even acknowledge that someone responded to you? Answering legitimate concerns shows transparency and builds public trust. Responding to unreasonable claims from conspiracy theorists, however, is a losing game. Further engagement ALWAYS leads to further wild claims, and demands for more and more "answers". Such inquiries are not designed to find any objective truth, but merely to create the impression of guilt through the ongoing engagement and leading questions like yours, quoted above. Obama gains nothing by engaging such requests; he would merely be feeding the trolls.

Adam

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kenmeer livermaile
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"the tin-foil class of KKK"

Brilliant. I can see them now, silvery hoods and robes, chafing at the tinfoil that digs even through their undergarment bedsheets but protects them from setting each other on fire by accident which, you know, does tend to make one a bit... cross.

And so reflectively luminous. Not only visually scintillant but reflecting all that heat on the street away from their pristine white bodies. They'd all be wearing shades, of course.

The KKK: cool at last. Protecting racial purity from ET genetic experiments. What a cool new century this is proving to be.

[ December 02, 2008, 01:13 PM: Message edited by: kenmeer livermaile ]

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kenmeer livermaile
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Kitty Kooks Klan

[ December 02, 2008, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: kenmeer livermaile ]

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kenmeer livermaile
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When Poor People Can't Afford Official Star Wars regalia for their Clone Wars reenactments.
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kenmeer livermaile
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"How easily we forget, Luke," said Obie Wan. "The Clone Wars weren't so very long ago. Your father fought bravely in them. Best -- and youngest -- pod fighter in the fleet."
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munga
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Cherry,

quote:
I think this kind of sentiment is at the heart of the denial for the necessity of absolute clarity, of full disclosure, on the issue. In the end, to many Obama suppoters, it really doesn't matter. And they have their reasons why that is so, even if they won't admit it, even to themselves.
You are misunderstanding our fun for concession of the point. I don't think there is any way in hell Obama wasn't born in Hawaii of an American mother. After that, it doesn't matter no matter how hard they try but it can make us cry to watch it.

[ December 02, 2008, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: munga ]

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TCB
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cb asked:
quote:
But, “why doesn't he” is really the biggest question isn’t it?
I bet Obama isn't even aware that anyone views his birth status as controversial. It's not like the man has time to click around on right-wing blogs every day.

And if you were one of his aids would you want to waste his time proposing that he debunk conspiracy theories? If you did, you probably wouldn't be his aid for long.

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kenmeer livermaile
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'My fellow Americans, rumors that I was born on Mars have gotten out of hand. In order to dispel these myths, I have shaved my head to show there are no antennae stubs...'
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