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Author Topic: Canadian Coup d'Etat!
Gaoics79
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Canadian Coup D'Etat

Well it's happened. There's been a coup and our government is on the verge of collapse.

Actually, it's one of the most fascinating and dramatic political events I can recall in my lifetime.

Here's the scoop: In last month's election (October 16, 2008), the Conservative party, under the leadership of Stephen Harper, won 143 seats, up about 124 from the last election. The Liberals, under the leadership of Stephane Dion, were badly humiliated and beaten, sinking lower than they've ever been, to 76 seats. The NDP under Socialist Jack Layton earned a respectable 37 seats, and the separatist Bloc Quebecois under Gille Duceppe picked up 50 seats.

So if you do the math, the Conservatives ended up with a minority, but a pretty strong one, bordering on majority. In a country as left-leaning as Canada, this was a pretty big win for them. Not the majority they wanted, but a great victory nonetheless.

Stephane Dion, the Liberal leader, was widely panned, his "green shift" plan considered a total dud at the polls. His own party rejected him, and it was expected that he would resign immediately. Instead, he decided to hang on for about 6 more months, just until a new leader could be selected. But it was a given that he was a dead duck in politics.

Well just a few days ago, the biggest surprise happened. Following Prime Minister Stephen Harper's proposal, which included a plan to scrap public funding for political parties, and did not include a substantive economic stimulus package, the Liberals under Dion have pulled a coup d'etat.

They are joining forces with the socialist NDP (that's real socialist, not Barack Obama socialism, LOL), with support from the separatist Bloc Quebecois. That's right, the Bloc Quebecois, in case you were wondering, has as its raison d'etre the independence of Quebec from Canada. They are a secessionist party. They have been the arch enemy of the Liberal party for decades, going all the way back to the first sovereignty referendum nearly 30 years ago.

But now Dion has joined forces with them to topple Harper and to make a Chimeric government with the NDP's Jack Layton as his partner.

Incidentally, this was exactly what they promised NOT to do during the election.

I have never seen anything like this in my life. The Governor General has been recalled to Canada. As the Queen's representative, she is in the unprecedented position of deciding the fate of the government.

Will Dion and his band of usurpers wrest control of the government? Will she give Harper the breathing room he needs to regroup by allowing him to postpone the no-confidence vote until mid January? Or will she outright call an election, less than two months after the last one? Nobody knows.

Harper has launched a PR campaign to get the Canadian people on his side. He has characterized this as a deal with the devil, as a sell-out to the separatists. In the house debates, he came just shy of accusing Dion of treason.

Meanwhile the Liberals have spun this as a necessary step to overthrow a Prime Minister who has refused to respond to a looming economic crisis, for the good of the Canadian public.

Public opinion seems to be divided among those that hate Harper and want him gone, and those that hate the very concept of the coalition. And no one really wants another election.

But what is going to happen? How does a leader coming off the biggest defeat in his party's history, who was shunned and rejected as soundly as any leader in recent memory, who just a month ago was facing a choice between resignation now versus resignation in 6 months, suddenly seize control of the government and become Prime Minister?

How does a party supposedly representing the people of Canada make a deal with a party dedicated to the destruction of Canada, giving them veto power and a huge influence, possibly even senate seats? (sort of like Obama giving cabinet appointments to Al Quaida, LOL).

And how did Stephen Harper, as politically savvy as he is, miscalculate so badly? How did we get into this mess?

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Funean
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How...how....unCanadian!

What do you think is most likely to happen, jason?

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Gaoics79
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Personally, I want another election. I want to go to the polls and vote against this coalition abomination. I will even do what I've never done in my life and write a cheque for $100 to the Conservative party. This time it's personal.

Will I get what I want? Hard to say. The two most likely options seem to be that Harper gets the delay he wants, which gives him time to get a new proposal out and also gives the coalition time to fracture.

Or, the coalition seizes power. Dion becomes Prime Minister. No election. Just business as usual, only now with the Separatists holding the Veto button.

As an Anglo born in Quebec, who has grown up hating the separatists, this latter scenario is about as appealing as a Palin presidency.

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Storm Saxon
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quote:

I have never seen anything like this in my life. The Governor General has been recalled to Canada. As the Queen's representative, she is in the unprecedented position of deciding the fate of the government.

Can you elaborate on this, please?
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cherrypoptart
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That does seem pretty dramatic. Of course Americans are clueless. I am too except for what you've explained here, so can't offer any predictions. But thanks for the heads up!

It's fascinating though. So I guess they don't throw around words like "public mandate" up there. Or "will of the people". Well, I suppose they do, but it doesn't seem to mean anything to this new coalition. I can see why a lot of people would be quite perturbed by these developments.

The Coalition of the Beaten. They shall rise again.

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canadian
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A quick and dirty primer

LeGG

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canadian
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To be fair, the Conservatives accepted that same deal with the devil 2 years ago when the BQ backed the Harper minority government's budget. They've manouevered themselves ( the BQ) into a nice little Kingmaker position these past few years.

Percentage of voters for the Conservative gov't?

hovering in the low 40's

Math.

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Gaoics79
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quote:
To be fair, the Conservatives accepted that same deal with the devil 2 years ago when the BQ backed the Harper minority government's budget. They've manouevered themselves ( the BQ) into a nice little Kingmaker position these past few years.

Percentage of voters for the Conservative gov't?

hovering in the low 40's

Math.

There's a big difference between making a one-off situation deal with the devil on a specific measure, versus forming an actual government where you are wholly dependent on them for support, and even hand over to them veto power over major decisions. And what else went into this deal? Are we going to see the appointment of Bloc Senators? Who knows? Do I think that the Bloc agreed to this pact without getting a thing in return? Even if they get nothing else, the prestige alone is enough to give them new wind in their sales. The separatist movement was in the pits, but now Mr. Dion is breathing new life into their cause. The irresponsible twit.

And incidentally, the percentage this "coalition" got? 0%

They explicitly promised they weren't going to do this during the election. And for good reason. They would have been smashed even more completely had they done so, and Harper would have gotten a majority.

My father, for example, always votes Liberal. Why does he vote Liberal? Because he doesn't want to stir up the Parti Quebecois (the Provincial equivalent of the Bloc) by having an antagonistic Conservative government. He votes Liberal basically to keep the separatists down.

Without speaking to him, I guarantee that a joint venture with the Bloc was certainly not what he signed on for.

And I guarantee you that Prime Minister Dion was not what people signed on for on October 16! The absolute chutzpah of this guy. He is actually going to appoint Green Party leader Elizabeth May to a Senate or cabinet position. You should have seen that smug lady on TV yesterday. You wouldn't know from her listening to her that she had been defeated in her own riding and failed to win a single seat for her party. Suddenly this nobody is all high and mighty because Dion says so.

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DonaldD
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"coup d'etat" is more than a bit of hyperbole, jason. By definition, this wouldn't be unconstitutional, neither would it be at the hands of a small part of the state establishment - rather, by a majority of the members of parliament. You've been drinking the kool-aid, jason [Smile]

As to how Harper miscalculated - he tried to continue his bullying tactics from the last session: the Liberals would seem to be in just as weak a position as previously, but somehow they managed to grow a pair in the ensuing months. That, and/or they realized they could not seem to be tacitly holding up the government at the expense of their purported ideals. That cost them hugely in the last election, and they couldn't afford that being used against them the next time around.

My guess - prorogue until January.

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Gaoics79
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quote:
As to how Harper miscalculated - he tried to continue his bullying tactics from the last session: the Liberals would seem to be in just as weak a position as previously, but somehow they managed to grow a pair in the ensuing months. That, and/or they realized they could not seem to be tacitly holding up the government at the expense of their purported ideals. That cost them hugely in the last election, and they couldn't afford that being used against them the next time around.
Well I'm pissed at Harper for letter this fiasco happen too.

In fact, that reminds me of another scenario I forgot to mention. Harper could resign and step aside for another Conservative to take his place.

Since this coalition was largely motivated and driven by personal Hatred for Mr. Harper and his totalitarian ways, getting him out of the picture could be enough to take us back from the brink.

Of course, the likelihood of that happening seems to get less and less.

I agree Donald. It's going to be a prorogue, unless the GG says no.

But you know Harper could always pre-emptively have the GG removed by the Queen (which is within his power to do) install a more favourable GG, and go with that. That of course would be one step ahead of bringing tanks into the capital, which I am not against doing, if they use them to flatten Dion and Elizabeth May before they roll out [Smile]

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TomDavidson
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quote:

My father, for example, always votes Liberal. Why does he vote Liberal? Because he doesn't want to stir up the Parti Quebecois (the Provincial equivalent of the Bloc) by having an antagonistic Conservative government. He votes Liberal basically to keep the separatists down.

Wow, your family really doesn't like the separatists, eh? [Wink]
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JoshCrow
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I would sooner kiss a wookiee than see a separatist in power in my country.

I've always complained that Canadian politics are dull. Now they're suddenly exciting - and unacceptable.

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DonaldD
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The problem with labelling the Bloc as 'separatist' is that that is not how they have been marketing themselves for the last 10 years at least. They have been 'the best party to protect the interests of Quebec' and, in this last election (and this is important) 'the one party capable of denying Harper of a majority'.

As such, many people voted Bloc in direct opposition to a potential Conservative government. To ignore this as the Conservative party is now doing is both dishonest and an insult to the intelligence of quebecers who voted Bloc.

The biggest risk in this whole farrago is a further radicalization of the east/west split. That's my biggest problem with the coalition, and now the Conservatives are trying to ride Western separatist sentiment to solidify their base and destabilize the other national parties.

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Storm Saxon
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quote:
Originally posted by canadian:
A quick and dirty primer

LeGG

Blech.
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JoshCrow
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Heehee, this situation is creating such ludicrous drama... I almost can't believe the circus I'm witnessing.

Montreal Gazette:
quote:

To save his job and his government, Prime Minister Stephen Harper is expected to suspend Parliament this week while his party blitzes the country with a public-relations campaign aimed at discrediting the notion of a Liberal-led coalition government propped up by the separatist Bloc Québécois.

The Conservative Party began airing radio ads yesterday while ministers and other Tory representatives were appearing on as many all-news television channels and talk-radio programs as they could to push their party's message that they will not, in the words of one of Harper's senior advisers, "allow a new radical government without the people's consent."

The key attack line from the Tories is that the Liberals are betraying their federalist principles by agreeing to demands from the Bloc.

"This deal that the leader of the Liberal Party has made with the separatists is a betrayal of the voters of this country, a betrayal of the best interests of our economy, a betrayal of the best interests of our country, and we will fight it with every means we have," Harper said in the House of Commons.

"The highest principle of Canadian democracy is that if one wants to be prime minister, one gets one's mandate from the Canadian people and not from Quebec separatists."

But NDP leader Jack Layton shot back that Harper himself was prepared to align himself with Gilles Duceppe and the Bloc Québécois in 2004 when he was the opposition leader trying to bring down the government of Paul Martin.

"I didn't hear any of this high and mighty language and moral indignation from the prime minister when he signed a document along with myself and (Bloc leader Gilles) Duceppe a few years ago," Layton said.

The Liberals challenged Harper to call a confidence vote.

"Every member of the House has received a mandate from the Canadian people to deliver a government that will face the economic crisis," Liberal leader Stéphane Dion said.

"The prime minister has failed. The prime minister does not have the support of the House anymore."

"Will he allow a vote to test if he has really the confidence of the House, as it must be in a parliamentary democracy?"

Dion and Harper engaged in a heated, even explosive, exchange.

At one point, Harper accused Dion of removing the Canadian flags from the room before signing the deal with Layton and Duceppe.

News organizations, including Canwest News Service, took several photographs that clearly showed there were two Canadian flags, as well as the flags from all the provinces, directly behind the leaders as they read their statements - along with a third separate Canadian flag behind the table where they signed the agreement.

Harper's defiant demeanour in the House yesterday was in marked contrast to the previous day, when he and many other Conservative MPs seemed resigned to losing power.

But sources in the Prime Minister's Office say he regained his fight while watching the signing Monday of the tripartite accord.

They say Harper was particularly incensed at Layton's comments at the news conference that followed, during which he called on Harper to accept his fate with dignity and accept his new role as leader of the opposition. According to those close to the prime minister, Harper said he felt Layton and the other leaders failed to show him any respect.

During question period yesterday, the Conservatives leaped to their feet on several occasions to give the prime minister standing ovations.

Insults flew from both sides of the Commons, with the Tories labelling Dion a "traitor" and the Liberals shouting at Harper, "You are not the president."

After question period, the Conservatives showered the prime minister with chants of "Harper! Harper!" in the government lobby before breaking out into the national anthem.
...

Hahah! I've seen high-school model U.N's with more dignity than this. This is an embarassment for the Liberals and the country. I can't believe they've managed to get me to support the Conservative party... it's unthinkable, but that's where I am now! You get in bed with the Bloc Quebecois, you're going to take it in the rear.

[ December 03, 2008, 12:25 PM: Message edited by: JoshCrow ]

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DonaldD
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Josh, you say this as if the Conservative party didn't sign an equivalent agreement with the Bloc just two years ago...
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JoshCrow
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quote:
Originally posted by DonaldD:
Josh, you say this as if the Conservative party didn't sign an equivalent agreement with the Bloc just two years ago...

Oh, I know! Believe me, I know! If they continue to take turns being idiots, I have no choice but to continue taking turns voting for the other guy.
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DonaldD
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Except you are not, since the Conservatives will just turn around and align themselves with the Bloc after you vote for them anyway [Smile]

Essentially, you'll be buying into the spin. But hey, if you actually support a party that is willing to use the current recession to garner cover for not just transparently-partisan but actually partisan to the point of anti-democratic policies, hey, it's a free country [Smile]

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canadian
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I'm an Albertan through and through. I've grown more centrist and gasp! possibly liberal as I've grown older (I know, the opposite tack of most young folk, but when you live in a land of conservatism what are you gonna do?), but I've also grown more dispassionate and objective.

Let's not jump into hysterics because the Bloc could gain power as part of a Coalition Government. Nothing corrupts ideals more thoroughly than power, and if this actually happens, I think you'll find that the Bloc tones down its separatist rhetoric (as they have already been doing) more and more each day. What possible benefit to split up a Canada where you have power?

None.

Duh.

Proroguing Parliament would be a huge mistake. It gives the Opposition more time to make a reasoned case to Canadians and dig up the nasty past of the Reform Party and further point out the ineffectual policies of the Conservatives in this time of crisis. The Conservatives may want a delay to bolster their own position, but the longer this plays out, the more acceptable this move will become to the majority of Canadians who would rather see "their guy" in power since the majority voted against Harper in the first place.

Power, that's all it comes down to. Everyone wants their own team to win, and let's face it, the laissez-faire methods the government has been taking in this time of economic woe (an attitude I actually kind of support, since I believe the bigger players in the world market can right this ship far more effectively than a pint-sized economy like Canada's), will seems less and less satisfactory to Canadians by and large.

And in the end, if this coalition serves the best interests of all Canadians, great!

If it doesn't, the Conservatives slide into an easy majority in a few years. No biggie.

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canadian
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Also, here's a better analysis of what the current Governor General's duties and decisions amount to in this situation:

Damned if you do....

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Paladine
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quote:

Essentially, you'll be buying into the spin. But hey, if you actually support a party that is willing to use the current recession to garner cover for not just transparently-partisan but actually partisan to the point of anti-democratic policies, hey, it's a free country

Canada? Since when?
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canadian
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Since the Patriot Act, i guess...

Everything's relative.

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JoshCrow
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I think we should just throw all our political parties in the fire.
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Gaoics79
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quote:
The problem with labelling the Bloc as 'separatist' is that that is not how they have been marketing themselves for the last 10 years at least. They have been 'the best party to protect the interests of Quebec' and, in this last election (and this is important) 'the one party capable of denying Harper of a majority'.
HA! Tell that to Jacques Parizeau.

Parizeau delighted at Bloc deal

This guy is to Quebec separatism what Bin Laden is to global Islamic Jihad. A good rule of thumb: when someone like Parizeau is happy, all of Canada needs to be very sad.

quote:
Wow, your family really doesn't like the separatists, eh? [Wink]
You're either with us, or you're ****ing thrice damned separatists. (a.k.a. my enemy) That's pretty much the motto of us anglos in Quebec. Always has been. I wouldn't say there are no separatist sympathizers among the Quebec anglo community, just like there might be a few Jewish anti-semites. But you won't catch too many of them being open about it [Smile]
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canadian
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You'd no doubt be surprised at the separatist feelings in the West.

But hell, that's what makes Canada! Everyone wants to feel special, downtrodden, or bloody well right.

We just smile and nod, though, most of the time.

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DonaldD
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jasonr, Bin Laden claimed to support Obama - it didn't mean anything then, and Parizeau declaiming anything now is just as meaningless... he's just trying to sound relevant, but knows he is 13 years past his best before date.
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Gaoics79
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quote:
jasonr, Bin Laden claimed to support Obama - it didn't mean anything then, and Parizeau declaiming anything now is just as meaningless... he's just trying to sound relevant, but knows he is 13 years past his best before date.
Wrong. Unlike Bin Laden, whose motives are unclear, Parizeau has very clear motives. He has absolutely no reason to say that the Bloc deal will destabilize the government, because this only undermines confidence in the deal, and therefore helps Harper make his case. It makes no sense for him to lie, because he is only hurting the Bloc, which we know he supports.

So why would Parizeau say something that he knows will be used against the Bloc? Simple. The same reason he said that Quebecers were like Lobsters going into the pot on the eve of the referendum, or that the referendum was lost because of "money and ethnics". The guy has his foot perpetually rammed into his mouth. He just can't keep his big mouth shut. That's classic Parizeau.

Bottom line, even if you don't agree with him, there's absolutely no reason to doubt Parizeau's sincerity on this point. As far as the arch separatist is concerned, this deal is a boon for the Bloc, and a boon for PQ aspirations.

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DonaldD
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Eh, right - Parizeau has been shown to say just about any stupid thing. It doesn't mean he is right, and usually means the opposite, if anything. It's like saying "ooh look! neo-nazi's support McCain!".

Since the only commitments that the Bloc require have been positions that both the NDP and the Liberals already support, and since the Bloc is committed to voting with the coalition exactly 3 times (one throne speech, 2 budgets) the whole Bloc issue is just a red herring.

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Gaoics79
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quote:
Eh, right - Parizeau has been shown to say just about any stupid thing. It doesn't mean he is right, and usually means the opposite, if anything. It's like saying "ooh look! neo-nazi's support McCain!".
Wrong again. Or at least, you're only part-right. Parizeau has been known to say stupid things, in the sense that it was stupid of him to say them when he did, in public.

They were not, however, stupid in the sense of being wrong . I 100% agreed with his lobster in the pot comment. And frankly, he was probably right about money and ethnic votes.

I also happen to think he's right about this coalition destabilizing the Federal government too. Or did you think that this Chimera was going to rule without a hitch with Dion at the helm?

quote:
Since the only commitments that the Bloc require have been positions that both the NDP and the Liberals already support, and since the Bloc is committed to voting with the coalition exactly 3 times (one throne speech, 2 budgets) the whole Bloc issue is just a red herring.
Firstly, we don't know what other kinds of goodies and perks have been thrown in to appease the Bloc. I do not for one instant buy this quaint Liberal notion that the Bloc were just happy to volunteer their services out of the goodness of their hearts. They are getting something out of this, and something big. Let me remind you, no matter how the Liberals claim that the Bloc aren't officially members of the coalition, without the Bloc, there is no majority and therefore no confidence in the house. So I say again, what did that twit Dion promise the Bloc for their support that he isn't mentioning publicly?

Finally, this whole thing has only raised the Bloc's profile nationally, revitalized and legitimized their cause. Even if it accomplishes nothing else, it will be a booster shot in their arms, and may even resurrect the flagging separatist movement in Quebec. And I'm not exactly unconcerned with the fact that we happen to have a Provincial election coming up in a matter of days. The Liberals were well ahead in the last polls, but who knows what effect this fiasco will have?

If I wanted to be REALLY cynical and paranoid, I might even suggest that Duceppe was hoping this fiasco would provoke Harper into doing exactly what he's doing now, which is attacking the separatists ferociously and publicly. The people of Quebec are a funny bunch. They may not support sovereignty, but if they see a Conservative from Alberta wailing on the Bloc and practically calling everyone who associates with the Bloc traitors, it might just make them feel unwelcome in this country. Just the shot in the arm the Bloc needed to revive the sovereignty debate, perhaps?

[ December 03, 2008, 10:54 PM: Message edited by: jasonr ]

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canadian
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You don't have to feel paranoid, Jason. Just understand that for the past few weeks Harper has been seriously losing his sh!t. I don't know why, but he's becoming increasingly ineffective.
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DonaldD
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And jason, you're still making the mistake of seeing the Bloc as a practical arm of the sovereignty movement. It no longer is. It hasn't for the last 3 election cycles. There has even been on-going, persistent debate within the party over its relevency. It is a de facto regional party now. Parizeau may be hoping that saying it will make it come true.

And on that note... I disagree that Harper is being provoked - the man has simply calculated what he thinks he needs in order to survive politically. And what is that? The rest of the country at war with Quebec. This whole separatist bugaboo exists nowhere - let me repeat - nowhere - except due to the actions of the conservatives.

The Bloc itself would have been wiped off the political map in Quebec this election cycle, but instead, Harper played to his right-wing base with anti-Quebec policies and resurrected the Bloc again. If you had been around Quebec for the last two weeks of the campaign, you would have seen that the Bloc's advertising was all about the conservative attacks on Quebec's socially liberal ideals, and on denying the Conservatives a majority. Sovereignty was simply not on the table during any part of the campaign.

Now, Harper is actually painting all Quebecers as separatists, based on the support for the Bloc, which only exists because of the Conservative party's abject failure in the last election.

And by doing so he is creating an anti-Quebec backlash in the rest of Canada, as well as an equivalent, opposite effect in Quebec. And that (not the fact that the Bloc would support the Liberal/NDP coalition) is the real key to reigniting the sovereignty push. The man is unbelievably dangerous.

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DonaldD
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BTW - best case from my perspective: prorogue until January, and in the meantime, Flaherty replaces Harper as PM. The conservatives at that point invite the Liberals and NDP to join a national unity government.

If the coalition were to be successful, I really fear a western backlash. If Harper stays on, there will be a sovereignty resurgence.

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Gaoics79
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quote:
And jason, you're still making the mistake of seeing the Bloc as a practical arm of the sovereignty movement. It no longer is. It hasn't for the last 3 election cycles. There has even been on-going, persistent debate within the party over its relevency. It is a de facto regional party now. Parizeau may be hoping that saying it will make it come true.
Bah. This is like claiming that Hamas is no longer a terrorist organization, just because they've toned it down slightly to stay with the times.

The Bloc may have modified their rhetoric in recent years to avoid being out of step with public opinion in Quebec, but it will be a cold day in hell before guys like Duceppe give up on sovereignty. I am old enough to remember the last referendum, #2 in my lifetime, the one we won by less than a percentage point, as I recall.

The Bloc is still a sovereignist party and their dream is dormant, not dead.

quote:
And on that note... I disagree that Harper is being provoked - the man has simply calculated what he thinks he needs in order to survive politically. And what is that? The rest of the country at war with Quebec. This whole separatist bugaboo exists nowhere - let me repeat - nowhere - except due to the actions of the conservatives.
So in other words, in response to a direct threat to his government, less than two months after he soundly won the election with a stronger minority than ever, he is doing what he needs to do to survive. How is this not "provocation"?

quote:
The Bloc itself would have been wiped off the political map in Quebec this election cycle, but instead, Harper played to his right-wing base with anti-Quebec policies and resurrected the Bloc again. If you had been around Quebec for the last two weeks of the campaign, you would have seen that the Bloc's advertising was all about the conservative attacks on Quebec's socially liberal ideals, and on denying the Conservatives a majority. Sovereignty was simply not on the table during any part of the campaign.
Firstly, Bloc propaganda about the Conservatives is not the issue. Of course the Bloc said that. Duuuuh. That doesn't mean it was true.

In point of fact, the Bloc propaganda was failing until Harper made the mistake of cutting funding to the arts, which set off a big backlash in Quebec. It was that specific issue alone that the BQ latched onto and used to defeat the Conservatives in Quebec.

And again, the Bloc is a sovereignist party. They may have been hiding their colours these past few elections out of expedience, but your implication that they have given up sovereignty as their goal is preposterous.

quote:
Now, Harper is actually painting all Quebecers as separatists, based on the support for the Bloc, which only exists because of the Conservative party's abject failure in the last election.

And by doing so he is creating an anti-Quebec backlash in the rest of Canada, as well as an equivalent, opposite effect in Quebec. And that (not the fact that the Bloc would support the Liberal/NDP coalition) is the real key to reigniting the sovereignty push. The man is unbelievably dangerous.

I agree on the backlash part, but I disagree on the cause. The artist issue may have propelled the Bloc to victory in the last election at the Conservatives' expense, but this was hardly a definite defeat. The Conservatives may have been beaten, but their bridges were not burned completely. It is this latest unholy alliance with the Bloc, which has forced Harper's back to the wall and forced him to do the real bridge burning.
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rightleft22
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I am so disappointed in the lack of leadership being demonstrated. Each party is placing there personal and party agendas over the good of the nation. And worse each seems incapable of realizing the difference.
IMO the rationalization that what is good for me and or my group must therefore be good for everyone is at the root cause behind the current economic and political crises.
As a society (I am generalizing) we have become a nation of short term thinking where leadership consists of reactionary short term goals instead of measured responses.

I’m so pissed that we have no viable alternative. Stick with the Conservatives and we have a leader unable to see beyond his own ideology and needs.
As for the coalition… they have seen it prudent to stand behind a leader that has already given notice that he will step down, a lame duck.

What is the overall result; Canada has no one manning the ruder during a time of economic crises. When Canada needed leadership and a sure hand we get petty party politics.

I have no confidence in any of the parties so hope the GG dissolves parliament and forces a election and that each of the current “leaders” are forced to step down.

I have never been ashamed of being a Canadian which sadly is no longer true.

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JoshCrow
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I'm more amused and apathetic than ashamed, which is a function of knowing that Canada is much better than its politics (and in spite of them, too)
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scifibum
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Canada has politics? [Exploding]
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Gaoics79
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Ha! The Governor General has just agreed to Harper's request to prorogue parliament until late January!

Governor General agrees to suspend parliament!

What does this mean? Basically, if I understand this correctly, it closes down this session of parliament and gives Harper a mulligan on any outstanding confidence issues.

The coalition can come back in January and try it again, but of course they'll have to stew in their own juices in the meantime, and of course they will no longer have the element of surprise.

My prediction is that the coalition is doomed. If they had been able to pull it off right away, it could have succeeded. But they will not be able to survive nearly two months without fracturing.

Harper has barely squeeked by with his skin. Take that Dion, you separatist loving backstabbing nitwit [LOL]

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Pete at Home
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"The highest principle of Canadian democracy is that if one wants to be prime minister, one gets one's mandate from the Canadian people and not from Quebec separatists."

Does that mean that Canadian democracy agrees with the Quebec separatists that Quebec separatists are not Canadian People? [Wink]

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canadian
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Stupid.

Prorogue Parliament?

This plays right into the hands of the Opposition Parties. Their main selling point was that nothing was being done for Canadians to alleviate hardship during this recession. That argumnent has just been bolstered.

Rather than doing their job, it will appear that the Conservatives are instead finding ways to desperately cling to their power. As the next six weeks roll by the argument will be made:

What's more democratic? A Conservative Party with a minority of votes, or all the other parties setting aside differences and working together to help average Canadian families?

Also, the issue that started all this talk of non-confidence: the botched budget. No help for Canadians, plus a very interesting little detail...

Cutting federal funding for Opposition Parties. In other words, squeeze out the dissenting voices in a Parliamentary Democracy, leaving one Party to Rule Them All.

Nevermind the naked aggression of this move, but consider the hypocrisy. The Conservatives benefitted from said funding all the years they lay wounded, licking their wounds and rebuilding.

And the disservice to the majority of Canadians who DID NOT vote Conservative is staggering.

We'll see how good the Tories are at selling their side of the story vs the Opposition parties. Short term I think they could have made a case based on fearmongering and creating divisions, but in the long term, they're screwed.

---

As an aside, I find it crazy that jasonr has descended deep and quickly into this generation's version of Godwin's Law and no one has called him on it.

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canadian
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I sure hope Harper isn't planning to set fire to the Parliament building and then blame the Bloc!

[Wink]

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