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Author Topic: The New World Order
Daruma28
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Or, as I submit, the Conspiracy theory IS TRUE.

The Constitution Party's 2008 Presidential Candidate, Chuck Baldwin, wrote a new column that breaks down in pretty good detail about this topic for which people here have been saying that I've been "jumping the shark" for referencing the Globalist conspiracy.

I'd be interested in seeing if there are any of you that are truly interested in objectively looking at this column and try to step out of the box of political theater that is our "two-party" system (Democans, Republicrats - no substantial difference...all NWO change agents, dupes and useful idiots) and see if what Baldwin describes sounds really outlandish...no mention of black helicopters or tin foil hats either. [LOL]

BTW - just a quick note: Baldwin is the guy Ron Paul endorsed for President when he withdrew from the campaign.

A VERY REAL NEW WORLD ORDER

By Chuck Baldwin
January 27, 2009


It is hard to believe, but a majority of Americans (including Christians and conservatives) seem oblivious to the fact that there is a very real, very legitimate New World Order (NWO) unfolding. In the face of overwhelming evidence, most Americans not only seem totally unaware of this reality, they seem unwilling to even remotely entertain the notion.

On one hand, it is understandable that so many Americans would be ignorant of the emerging New World Order. After all, the mainstream media refuses to report, or even acknowledge, the NWO. Even "conservative" commentators and talk show hosts such as Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Michael Savage, or Joe Scarborough refuse to discuss it. And when listeners call these respective programs, these "conservative" hosts usually resort to insulting the caller as being some kind of "conspiracy kook." One host even railed that if anyone questions the government line on 9/11, we should "lock them up and throw away the key." So much for freedom of speech!

This is an area--perhaps the central area--where liberals and conservatives agree: they both show no patience or tolerance for anyone who believes that global government (in any form) is evolving. One has to wonder how otherwise intelligent and thoughtful people can be so brain dead when it comes to this issue. It makes one wonder who is really pulling their strings, doesn't it?

The list of notable personalities who have openly referenced or called for some kind of global government or New World Order is extremely lengthy. Are all these people "kooks" or "conspiracy nuts"? Why would world leaders--including presidents, secretaries of state, and high government officials; including the media, financial, and political elite--constantly refer to something that doesn't exist? Why would they write about, talk about, or openly promote a New World Order, if there is no such thing?

Many of us recall President George Herbert Walker Bush talking much about an emerging New World Order. For example, in 1989, Bush told the students of Texas A&M University, "Perhaps the world order of the future will truly be a family of nations."

Later, Bush, Sr. said, "We have before us the opportunity to forge for ourselves and for future generations a new world order . . .. When we are successful, and we will be, we have a real chance at this new world order, an order in which a credible United Nations can use its peacekeeping role to fulfill the promise and vision of the U.N.'s founders."

Bush, Sr. also said, "What is at stake is more than one small country, it is a big idea--a new world order."

Bush, Sr. further said, "The world can therefore seize the opportunity to fulfill the long-held promise of a new world order . . ."

What was President G.H.W. Bush talking about, if there is no such thing as an emerging New World Order? Was he talking out of his mind? Was he hallucinating?

England's Prime Minister, Tony Blair, said, "We are all internationalists now, whether we like it or not." He continued saying, "On the eve of a new Millennium we are now in a new world. We need new rules for international co-operation and new ways of organizing our international institutions." He also said, "Today the impulse towards interdependence is immeasurably greater. We are witnessing the beginnings of a new doctrine of international community."

In 1999, Tony Blair said, "Globalization has transformed our economies and our working practices. But globalism is not just economic. It is also a political and security phenomenon."

What is Tony Blair talking about, if there is no emerging New World Order? What does he mean by "a new doctrine of international community"? What does he mean by "new world"? How can one have globalism, which includes "a political and security phenomenon," without creating a New World Order? Is Tony Blair hallucinating?

Likewise, former President George W. Bush penned his signature to the Declaration of Quebec back on April 22, 2001, in which he gave a "commitment to hemispheric integration and national and collective responsibility for improving the economic well-being and security of our people."

By "our people," Bush meant the people of the Western Hemisphere, not the people of the United States. Phyllis Schlafly rightly reminded us that G.W. Bush "pledged that the United States will 'build a hemispheric family on the basis of a more just and democratic international order.'"

Remember, too, that it was G.W. Bush who, back in 2005, committed the United States to the Security and Prosperity Partnership (SPP), which is nothing more than a precursor to the North American Community or Union, as outlined in CFR member Robert Pastor's manual, "Toward a North American Community."

If there is no such thing as an emerging New World Order, what was G.W. Bush talking about when he referred to "a hemispheric family" and an "international order"?

The public statements of notable world leaders regarding an emerging New World Order are copious. Consider the statements of former CBS newsman, Walter Cronkite.

In his book, "A Reporter's Life," Walter Cronkite said, "A system of world order--preferably a system of world government--is mandatory. The proud nations someday will see the light and, for the common good and their own survival, yield up their precious sovereignty . . ." Cronkite told BBC newsman Tim Sebastian, "I think we are realizing that we are going to have to have an international rule of law." He added, "We need not only an executive to make international law, but we need the military forces to enforce that law." Cronkite also said, "American people are going to begin to realize that perhaps they are going to have to yield some sovereignty to an international body to enforce world law."

If there is no emerging New World Order, what is Walter Cronkite talking about? Can there be any doubt that Cronkite is talking about global government? Absolutely not!

Now, when Bush, Sr. talks about fulfilling "the promise and vision of the U.N.'s founders," he was talking about the same thing former UN Secretary-General Boutros Boutros-Ghali was talking about when he said, "The time for absolute and exclusive sovereignty . . . has passed."

The United Nations has been on the forefront of promoting the New World Order agenda since its very inception. In 1995, the UN released a manual entitled, "Our Global Neighborhood." It states, "Population, consumption, technology, development, and the environment are linked in complex relationships that bear closely on human welfare in the global neighborhood. Their effective and equitable management calls for a systematic, long-term, global approach guided by the principle of sustainable development, which has been the central lesson from the mounting ecological dangers of recent times. Its universal application is a priority among the tasks of global governance."

If there is no emerging New World Order, what is "global governance" all about?

"Who are the movers and shakers promoting global government?" you ask. Obviously, it is the international bankers who are the heavyweights behind the push for global government. Remember, one cannot create a "global economy" without a global government to manage, oversee, and control it.

In a letter written to Colonel E. Mandell House, President Franklin D. Roosevelt said, "The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government of the U.S. since the days of Andrew Jackson."

"Old Hickory" did his best to rid the United States from the death grip that the international bankers were beginning to exert on this country. He may have been the last President to actually oppose the bankers. In discussing the Bank Renewal bill with a delegation of bankers in 1832, Jackson said, "Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time, and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out."

Unfortunately, the international bankers proved themselves to be too formidable for President Jackson. And in 1913, with the collaboration of President Woodrow Wilson, the bankers were given charge over America's financial system by the creation of the Federal Reserve.

Ever since the CFR and Trilateral Commission were created, they have filled the key leadership positions of government, big media, and of course, the Federal Reserve.

In his book, "With No Apologies," former Republican Presidential nominee Barry Goldwater wrote, "The Trilateral Commission is intended to be the vehicle for multinational consolidation of the commercial and banking interests by seizing control of the political government of the United States. The Trilateral Commission represents a skillful, coordinated effort to seize control and consolidate the four centers of power-- political, monetary, intellectual and ecclesiastical. What the Trilateral Commission intends is to create a worldwide economic power superior to the political governments of the nation-states involved. As managers and creators of the system, they will rule the future." Was Goldwater a prophet or what?

And again, the goals of the global elite have been publicly stated. Back in 1991, the founder of the CFR, David Rockefeller praised the major media for their complicity in helping to facilitate the globalist agenda by saying, "We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. . . . It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries."

How could Rockefeller be any plainer? He acknowledged the willful assistance of the major media in helping to keep the elitists' agenda of global government from the American people. To this day, the major media has not deviated from that collaboration. And this includes the aforementioned "conservative" talking heads. They know if they want to keep their jobs, they dare not reveal the New World Order. The NWO, more than anything else, is the "Third Rail" to the national media.

Is it any wonder that President Barack Obama has stacked his government with numerous members of the CFR? Among these are Robert Gates, Janet Napolitano, Eric Shinseki, Timothy Geithner, and Tom Daschle. Other CFR members include CFR President Richard Haass, CFR Director Richard Holbrooke, and founding member of the Trilateral Commission and CFR member Paul Volcker. Obama even asked a CFR member, Rick Warren, to deliver the inaugural prayer.

Still not convinced? Just a few days ago, when asked by a reporter what he thought the most important thing was that Barack Obama could accomplish, former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger said, "I think his task will be develop an overall strategy for America in this period when, really, a New World Order can be created. It's a great opportunity; it isn't just a crisis."

This is the same Henry Kissinger, you will recall, who said back in 1991, "Today, America would be outraged if UN troops entered Los Angeles to restore order. Tomorrow, they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told that there were [sic] an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by the World Government."

Even Gideon Rachman, the chief foreign affairs commentator for the Financial Times, wrote an editorial expressing his support for world government. In his column he said, "I have never believed that there is a secret United Nations plot to take over the US. . . . But, for the first time in my life, I think the formation of some sort of world government is plausible.

"A 'world government' would involve much more than co-operation between nations. It would be an entity with state-like characteristics, backed by a body of laws. The European Union has already set up a continental government for 27 countries, which could be a model. The EU has a supreme court, a currency, thousands of pages of law, a large civil service and the ability to deploy military force.

"So could the European model go global? There are three reasons for thinking that it might."


Rachman then goes on to explain the reasons why he believes world government is plausible.

Do you now see why it does not matter to a tinker's dam whether it is a Republican or Democrat who resides at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue? For the most part, both major parties in Washington, D.C., have been under the dominating influence of the international bankers who control the Federal Reserve, the CFR, and the Trilateral Commission. And this is also why it does not matter whether one calls himself conservative or liberal. For the most part, both conservatives and liberals in Washington, D.C., are facilitating the emerging New World Order. It is time we wake up to this reality.

Presidents Bush, Sr., Bill Clinton, and Bush, Jr. have thoroughly set the table for the implementation of the NWO, as surely as the sun rises in the east. All Obama has to do is put the food on the table--and you can count on this: Barack Obama will serve up a New World Order feast like you cannot believe!

That a New World Order is emerging is not in question. The only question is, What will freedom-loving Americans do about it? Of course, the first thing they have to do is admit that an emerging New World Order exists! Until conservatives, Christians, pastors, constitutionalists, and others who care about a sovereign, independent United States acknowledge the reality of an emerging New World Order, they will be incapable of opposing it. And right now, that is exactly what they are not doing.

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scifibum
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Was that just a list of public statements about a new world order (in small letters) provided as evidence of a secret conspiracy to for a New World Order?

In other news, all this talk about change proves Obama is part of a secret conspiracy to implement Change.

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Everard
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"If there is no emerging New World Order, what is "global governance" all about?"

Up until that line, I'm not arguing anything, and I don't think anyone else here is, daruma. The rise of a "new world order," and claims thereof is not why anyone is saying you've jumped the shark.

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Daruma28
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No, I was accused of jumping the shark when I dared take on the sacred cow of revisionist history regarding Abraham Lincoln by you, and than I was accused of it again by Rallan when I referred to the idea that Republicans and Democrats are all part of the same agenda, two sides of the same coin, designed as a grand fraud to divide and conquer the American people while they continue to move forward with the real agenda...global governance.
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Daruma28
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quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
Was that just a list of public statements about a new world order (in small letters) provided as evidence of a secret conspiracy to for a New World Order?

In other news, all this talk about change proves Obama is part of a secret conspiracy to implement Change.

Glad to see you took it seriously. Exactly what I was looking for...

...thanks for the laugh...

...watching useful idiocy in action can be quite entertaining. [LOL]

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Everard
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"No, I was accused of jumping the shark when I dared take on the sacred cow of revisionist history regarding Abraham Lincoln by you,"

Specifically, you jumped the shark by saying the confederacy was fighting for individual rights.

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Daruma28
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Now you're just full of ****. I posted an article detailing the ways in which Abraham Lincoln abrogated the Constitution, and cited quotations to back up the contention that he really didn't care about slavery as his primary impetus for prosecuting the Civil War, his primary concern was preventing the South from secession, when you decided to jump in and tell everyone that I've jumped the shark by making statements without the facts to back them up.
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Kent
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Another thread about another thread.
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JoshCrow
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What a kook. It's the tinfoil hat brigade!

Some people won't be happy unless they feel they have been chosen as the vehicle to receive some secret heretofore unknown wisdom that has eluded everybody else.

This guy strikes me as the sort who sees Elders of Zion in his oatmeal.

As if there wouldn't be leaks in the massive conspiracy boat he's describing... why is it that this sort of "information" always comes from someone outside the club? Wouldn't it be a little more likely that someone IN such a club would suddenly grab a megaphone (before being locked away or 'disappearing', but still).

[ January 27, 2009, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: JoshCrow ]

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Daruma28
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This is an area--perhaps the central area--where liberals and conservatives agree: they both show no patience or tolerance for anyone who believes that global government (in any form) is evolving. One has to wonder how otherwise intelligent and thoughtful people can be so brain dead when it comes to this issue.
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scifibum
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"This is an area--perhaps the central area--where liberals and conservatives agree: they both show no patience or tolerance for anyone who believes that global government (in any form) is evolving."

Right in line with a bunch of quotes from liberals and conservatives about the rise of a new world order.

What I don't get is the conspiracy angle. I get the world government thing, that we're moving in that direction...no argument. Don't see the puppet masters.

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Daruma28
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the international bankers who control the Federal Reserve, the CFR, and the Trilateral Commission.

The same guys that "guide" our economy by setting interest rates to orchestrate the boom and bust cycle of the economy.

Look no further than the latest "bi-partisan" (as if there are two separate and opposing parties genuinely engaged in substantive conflict...) vote to approve the "bailout" of the banks - despite both overwhelming Democrat and Republican voters opposition, there leaders all voted to pass it anyways.

Doesn't that give you a clue as to who is "pulling the levers."

It's certainly not "we the people."

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Daruma28
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Right in line with a bunch of quotes from liberals and conservatives about the rise of a new world order.

Which perfectly demonstrates why Baldwin wrote:

For the most part, both major parties in Washington, D.C., have been under the dominating influence of the international bankers who control the Federal Reserve, the CFR, and the Trilateral Commission. And this is also why it does not matter whether one calls himself conservative or liberal. For the most part, both conservatives and liberals in Washington, D.C., are facilitating the emerging New World Order.

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kenmeer livermaile
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I think we're currently evolving in several ways that will create more global interdependence and larger centralized structures of governance for those things that require centralized control. At the same time, other things traditionally centralized and large are now small and diffuse.

al-qaeda, for example, has had enormous impact on world affairs but is itself a nebulous thing.

Information dispersal is rapidly becoming decentralized.

As the population grows, it fills up the world, and some central governance will be need to form consensus on matters critically affected by and critical to such a large population.

But monolithism seems unlikely.

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Daruma28
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Not "evolving" kl. It's deliberate machinations in action.

Monolithism seems unlikely? Hah...I say, it's already here.

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kenmeer livermaile
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Daruma, not everything in life is runy mental moonbeam men.

yes there are deliberate machinations by powerful elites. Have been as long as civilization.

But life is much bigger than the grandest conspiracy.

You are displaying a condition known as idee fixee.

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Daruma28
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But life is much bigger than the grandest conspiracy.

Not when that conspiracy affects almost every aspect of your life.

Like our currently manufactured recession...it's not as if I'm ranting at some mythical entity - I'm deliberately trying to point it out.

And the reason why I do it here, is because this forum is an absolute, daily reinforcement of the "partisan political theater."

I simply point this all out, because I'm quite confident that the day will come when all you Obama believers will one day look back and realize he's taken you all for a ride, just as I now look at my former support for Bush and the GOP.

Our current political system, for which about 75% of this forum is so concerned with discussing, is all based on a false premise.

But whatever. Keep chanting the mantra of "change we can believe in." Because that change is the literal change of a free, sovereign country being changed into just another nation state beholden to a one world government.

And it will be a Brave New World Order...the perfect ammalgamation of the dystopian realities envisioned by Orwell and Huxley.

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munga
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and that is where I'll get off the ship....

I do care very much about slavery.

I'm not saying I won't work to remove the things that removing slavery somehow cost us, but I'm saying... its removal was so important I'm willing to pay that price. And fix it, if we can.

In the meantime, generations of people lived in peace (though in poverty) in their own homes.

how priceless is that?

[ January 27, 2009, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: munga ]

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Gaoics79
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quote:
This is an area--perhaps the central area--where liberals and conservatives agree: they both show no patience or tolerance for anyone who believes that global government (in any form) is evolving. One has to wonder how otherwise intelligent and thoughtful people can be so brain dead when it comes to this issue.
Intelligent people of all political persuasion can see the general stupidity of most conspiracy theories, particularly the elaborate ones that span centuries and would necessarily require the participation of thousands.

At what point are the architects of this conspiracy initiated into the group? At what point does an ordinary banker or politician or lawyer who grows up in America and goes to school and has a wife and kids and eats Kentucky Fried Chicken suddenly wake up and say "time to work on the conspiracy to take over the world!". When does he attend the secret meetings? When does he get initiated into the group? Or is this an "unconscious" conspiracy, where the conspirators don't know what they're conspiring?

Incidentally, the article you cited is transparently stupid Daruma. The author declares the existence of a "new world order", then cherry-picks a handful of random quotes where that phrase is employed and asks us to presume that they are one and the same with what he is discussing. In the WCW they had those wrestlers claiming to be part of the "new world order" too. They even had tee-shirts about it. By the author's logic, I suppose they're in on it too. When someone makes such a blatantly specious argument, why would I even bother to take them seriously?

And alluding to 911 conspiracy theories erodes the author's credibility even further. My sister watched the second jet hit the twin towers from her apartment. I guess maybe she was in on the conspiracy too.

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TomDavidson
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I ran into one of the Gnomes of Zurich the other day. Little guy. Fairly dapper, though, which I hadn't expected. Hat matched his shoes, and his silver beard was nattily done in a very patrician cut. I had no difficulty imagining that he and his tiny little friends were running the world.
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Daruma28
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They even had tee-shirts about it. By the author's logic, I suppose they're in on it too.

Oh yes, I guess Henry Kissinger, Tony Blair, both Bushes, Boutros-Ghali et al talking about it is exactly the same a WCW wrestlers...

As for 9/11 conspiracy theory...there are plenty of theories out there. Chuck did not allude to 9.11 attacks being staged or faked.

Only that it could certainly have been a Pearl Harbor type event...now does that REALLY sound so crazy? That the powers that be set it up?

I only know this...after years of thinking about it and all the tangential issues regarding 9/11, I no longer fall for the "Official" story line. A lot really stinks about the whole thing, and I'm not even talking about the whole "controlled demolition" theories. I think the primary point of suspicion for me arises in which the PATRIOT Act was "written" supposedly immediately in the aftermath, and both parties members immediately signed off on it without even bothering to read the whole thing (or so they say).

LIHOP, MIHOP, I have no idea...but it sure seems convenient when you look at the number of things that have directly resulted from that day...all of which involved centralizing power in the Federal Government and the blatant constitutional violations that have been enacted since than, all justified by a "WAR ON TERROR" that now seems awfully reminiscent and futile as all the other "WARS" our brilliant Federal Government has purported to wage...poverty, drugs...all "WARS" that all share a common thread: an abstract, undefinable "enemy" used as a justification for violating the Constitution and to further empower the State.

Finally, jason, the article points out specific entities of folks...is it really that hard to believe when it's easily researched facts like the membership roles of the Trilateral Commission, the Bilderberg group and the Council on Foreign Relations reads like a who's who list of world leaders (no WCW wrestlers...), and those very same groups produce studies, statements and fund all sorts of initiatives that advance Global Government?

I've actually read a lot of other material on this topic...and I'm certain there is most certainly a lot of crazy conspiracy sites that are off the wall...but than what better way to make people shrug off anything as "conspiracy theory" than to create a whole lot of fantastic, ridiculous misinformation peppered in with some truths to condition the average person to react to articles like this Baldwin one exactly as you have?

Does the movie "Wag the Dog" ring a bell?

I only posted this article because Baldwin connects the dots, and uses quotations from both liberal/conservative/democrat/republican political figures, demonstrating in fact that the whole two-party system is in fact a facade.

America the Republic has been irrevocably corrupted, and the super-rich elite owners of the Federal Reserve are the true powers behind the scenes. They manufacture crisis to implement their Globalization agenda, step by incremental step.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
Oh yes, I guess Henry Kissinger, Tony Blair, both Bushes, Boutros-Ghali et al talking about it is exactly the same a WCW wrestlers...
Question: if this is a conspiracy, why are all those people talking about it? Why can't it simply amount to a realization among the leaders of the world that ours is already a global economy and a global public sphere, rather than an insidious plan to force it into that mold?
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kenmeer livermaile
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It's OK, Daruma: Jesus will come to Earth and save us all in the end.
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Lina Inverse
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I don't really see how this is a conspiracy. Aren't all of these people pretty open about what they want to do? (Which is less "make global government so the Antichrist can sweep in and do... something" and more "tear down the barriers that keep up from becoming even more fabulously wealthy".) And am I the only one who remembers all those anti-globalization rallies they were having a while back? Did you support any of those, Daruma?
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RickyB
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Ain't we lucky we have Daruma to be smart for us? [Big Grin]
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Individual Persona
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Esoteric Agenda

If those of you who are willing to watch a full length movie on youtube, and those among those of you who will ignore the mystical parts of this movie and pay attention to the actual bits concerning the US government and world government...

you might find this entertaining, and not necessarily true but definitely thought-provoking, and related to what we're talking about here. I'd like to see what the reaction is.

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RickyB
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" And am I the only one who remembers all those anti-globalization rallies they were having a while back? Did you support any of those, Daruma?"

Oh no, those were organized by COLLECTIVISTS. Lina, the secret to Daruma is that he hates "the left/liberals" more than he's actually FOR anything. Remember that, and all will be clear. [Smile]

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rightleft22
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I find that the use of the words “New Word Order” unhelpful. The phrase is too vague to mean anything. Many of the quotes use in the article to show the conspiracy seem to have been taken out of context. I did note that most of the quotes were in reference to the economy and security.
Recognition of the need to monitor or regulate an economy which has become even more integrated and global in nature is more a recognition of the evolution of economics. But that’s not new. I do not doubt that there are people and organization that hope to manage the evolution and influence it for personal or national gain. That is not new.
Regulation/control is political. We are political by nature with a tendency to look out for our own first and I very much doubt that that will ever change so I won’t hold my breath for a “world order.”
I see no evidence of anything “New” and I’m too much of a cynic to believe in the possibility of a “world order.”

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kenmeer livermaile
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"And am I the only one who remembers all those anti-globalization rallies they were having a while back? "

WTO Summit, Seattle, 1999

It was quite a stinko. I wasn't there, but across the state in Spokane where I live the spillover was significant.

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munga
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On conspiracy-ness:

I'm not sure anyone can make a claim that there is any mastermind. It certainly isn't the bilderberg group or whoever those idiots are/were.

Daruma, I will meet you half-way to agree that there is strong evidence of intelligent design.

And no, Bush didn't do it. Bush isn't that smart and the entire system long predates him.

But being me, I see it as a facility- If in year 1900 I built a power facility on coal and steam turbines, I would have a very low-efficiency system.

The object of the next generation is to improve it: they add granulators to reduce coal particle size.

The next generation will increase the storage facility, so that in time they are more stable (and better able to command price for sheer reliability, capturing more market).

The next generation improves with a fluidized bed.

The next generation ....

People in general do not appreciate that there is even such a thing as financial engineering that is exactly mirroring this physical engineering example. They totally overlook it.

You see, I can easily see that what looks like a conspiracy is simply a long history of increased efficiency at the game (financial engineering) ---- getting all the money and power. America is the Monopoly Game, where it is legal as long as you aren't caught and have paid off the right people. We use the words "Market Share" to indicate how we have captured the cashflows.

[ January 28, 2009, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: munga ]

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KidB
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Belief in an over-arching conspiracy only leads to powerlessness.

I believe in a general set of class interests, and its requisite world-view and protocols. People at the top of the pyramid are used to behaving in a certain way.

I do not believe that people at the top control things universally. Rather, they exploit pre-existing trends, some of which are inherent to the human animal. Mostly, this happens through individual actors pursuing their own interests. Those at the top, who benefit from the system, are more liable to support it rather than oppose it. No master-control is necessary for this. Just the good 'ole reptilian cortex, with which we are all born.

This is why I believe civilized society should be based on reason, rather than obediance to mythical concepts like "nature" and "tradition."

Every society has had leaders and followers, but societies are rational to the degree that the pyramid is flattened, and the power shared. The more power is centralized, the more the power of reason which each individual possesses as a human being is threatened, because power relies on the usurpation of reason. No one political entity created this state of affairs - we inherited it from millions of years of evolution.

Our current society is a very mixed bag of reason and un-reason. It could be a lot worse. It could be a lot better. There are times when the "financial overlords" have more control over our political systems, and times when they have less. But in no way do I believe that they can engineer history over periods of decades or centuries. Influence, yes, of course, but that is no surpise to anyone. Control completely? The world is too complicated. There are too many unknowns. It cannot be done.

Honestly, if we have come to our current state of affairs because we are "sheeple," then there is no hope for us and we deserve what we get. It must be in our nature to obey! If it is so easy to gain such comprehensive control over us, then what's the alternative?

At the end of the day, the problem with the Rulers at the top is not that they think in such grandiose, historical terms, but that they are so small-minded. They perceive very little and care about even less. It's their disinterest in the world at large that creates this mess, not their grand designs upon it. I think if you actually met some of these billionaire overlords, you'd be surprised at how mundane their interests are. They have jobs that they enjoy, they spend the weeks working long hours in sparse offices, and they move numbers, write spreadhsheet, make phone calls. It's nothing mysterious or special. Let's stop acting like what's going on is something other than what is expected and human. The solution to it is only what it has always been - control those circumstances in your life that you can, and do your best to lift the world up a little.

Exuent.

[ January 28, 2009, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: KidB ]

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rightleft22
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Have you ever played the card game called President (it has other names) but the object of the game is to get rid of all your cards as soon as possible. The first player who is out of cards is awarded the highest social rank - for Americans this is President - the next is Vice-President, then Citizen and so on down. The last player to be left with any cards is known as the Beggar, Scum, ******* or by various terms of abuse.

The rules of the game favors the highest social rank so it becomes quite difficult to un-seat them. When your scum it often seems as if the cards are stacked against you… and they are! It’s not a conspiracy it just the way it works.

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kenmeer livermaile
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"Belief in an over-arching conspiracy only leads to powerlessness. "

But there is a sense of freedom and relief in that powerlessness:

"Oh, now I know why I can't xyz, why abc happens, and why it is useless for me to engage with either."

It provides comfort of a sort for awhile, sometimes a lifetime. It is like religious faith, which is not to say there isn't rational evidence to support the notion of powerful, manipulating, superficially legal but functionally sublegal, consortia for concentrating wealth and power for the few. The Carlyle group is a recent entry into the government spinoff of wealth game.

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KidB
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quote:
It provides comfort of a sort for awhile, sometimes a lifetime. It is like religious faith, which is not to say there isn't rational evidence to support the notion of powerful, manipulating, superficially legal but functionally sublegal, consortia for concentrating wealth and power for the few.
Exactly. *It* exists, but *it* does not explain everything we see. Not even close. Seeing it everywhere is like seeing God everywhere. It's comforting.
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Athelstan
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quote:
England's Prime Minister, Tony Blair, said, "We are all internationalists now, whether we like it or not." He continued saying, "On the eve of a new Millennium we are now in a new world. We need new rules for international co-operation and new ways of organizing our international institutions." He also said, "Today the impulse towards interdependence is immeasurably greater. We are witnessing the beginnings of a new doctrine of international community."

Tony Blair has designs on becoming the first President of Europe. This is a different role from the Commission President and the six month Presidency held at present by France. It is in the new Lisbon Treaty that EU leaders are trying again to ratify after being rejected by Ireland. Any talk of Tony Blair’s internationalist credentials must been seen in the light of him angling for a top job on the European gravy train.
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JoshCrow
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quote:
Originally posted by Athelstan:

Tony Blair has designs on becoming the first President of Europe... Any talk of Tony Blair’s internationalist credentials must been seen in the light of him angling for a top job on the European gravy train.

Did he tell you this personally, or did you, y'know, come up with this yourself?
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Daruma28
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quote:
Originally posted by RickyB:
" And am I the only one who remembers all those anti-globalization rallies they were having a while back? Did you support any of those, Daruma?"

Oh no, those were organized by COLLECTIVISTS. Lina, the secret to Daruma is that he hates "the left/liberals" more than he's actually FOR anything. Remember that, and all will be clear. [Smile]

Sorry Ricky....you're snarking on the Daruma of at least a year or more ago.

I hate communitarian-collectivist ideology, true...but I hate the so-called "conservatives" that are the other side of the coin just as much. In fact, they are almost worse in my book, because they are able to achieve things no openly declared liberal would get away with, because of the blind support they receive from their base.

But if you want to keep being a sarcastic ******* and deride me and attack me for what you think is crazy or ridiculous coming from my keyboard, it's all good. I still get a laugh at some of the things you contribute here that I think are bat-**** crazy too...I just don't make it a point to constantly weigh in and reiterate it like you seem to enjoy doing with me. [Razz]

KidB wrote: I do not believe that people at the top control things universally.

It's easy to read the things I write about here and refer to and just write it off as too fantastic and unrealistic...but I don't believe so.

One need only take a step back, and look at the observable truths and connect the dots to see that a New World Order movement is in fact a very real movement being carried out.

It's all about the super-wealthy...the elite owners of the multi-national corporations and the central banks that control the money and global economy.

You all think it's crazy, but I tell you, this "economic crisis" is a deliberate "event" designed to further the process. And I KNOW this economy is affecting just about every person in this country.

So, pay no attention to the men and women behind the curtain, pulling the levers. Laugh in derision at anyone who dares to try and rip it open and show everyone else just who is behind it and what they are actually doing and call 'em crazy.

Keep believing in the beautiful lies the media and socially engineered culture tells you to keep the ugly truth from exposure.

Believe in your illusion of "power" by participating in our so-called "democracy." Who cares if the loss of privacy, the loss of individual free agency, the loss of private property rights, and the loss of the right to defend yourself and your family are all flushed down the drain. As long as you all have the right to vote, and you exercise that vote, you can keep telling yourself you live in a free country!

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Athelstan
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I'll be president of Europe if you give me the power - Blair
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KidB
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Daruma,

I just don't see what's "new" about it. It seems a continuation of the usual power plays.

And I don't see how the current crisis is engineered. I *do* see that it was caused by government intitiatives, and that those initiatives were passed for reasons other than those publicly stated (i.e. - to fleece the public by increasing their debt-load), and I see that the govt. bailout in its present form proceeds largely according to the needs of the elite. But no design is required to explain this pattern - it proceeds naturally from entrenched patterns of behavior. It is more easily, more accurately explained by shortsightedness, than by a long-term strategy. Power is maintained in a general sense by a conspiracy of sorts, but if you wanted to engineer a financial meltdown, you could do it a LOT more comprehensively than what we're seeing.

I'm sorry, I'm just too much a believer in chaos theory. It makes much more sense to me that people favored short-term gain over wisdom, and failed to understand the consequences of the new instruments they were implementing.

[ January 28, 2009, 05:41 PM: Message edited by: KidB ]

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Everard
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"And I don't see how the current crisis is engineered. I *do* see that it was caused by government intitiatives,"

Eh. I think a significantly larger part of the crises is caused by lack of government oversight. The levereging that was going, the way loans changed hands, how loans were rated, etc... this had nothing to do with government, and a lot to do with the crisis.

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