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Author Topic: Would you drop a potential boy/girlfriend if they listened to conservative radio?
Omega M.
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Just curious. I'm wondering when I should mention to my next girlfriend that I listen to conservative talk radio by default when I'm driving. I don't believe everything they say---I look at Media Matters almost every day to find out what they're not saying---but I find it more entertaining and less snobbish than, say, NPR. (Air America does not seem available in the Philadelphia area.)

(Yes, this is similar to my topic "Are video games a deal breaker with women?" at Hatrack. Hopefully the title is less confrontational!)

[ January 28, 2009, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: Omega M. ]

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Wayward Son
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When did you mention it to your last girlfriend (and how'd it turn out)? [Big Grin]

If you just listen to it for the entertainment value, and don't buy everything they say at face value, then I don't see it as a real problem. It's the conservative-radio attitude--mindless contempt of everything labeled "Liberal"--that is so obnoxious. As long as you don't embrace that attitude, I don't see it as being a real problem. At least, until you take a long trip with the gal and have to decide what you two will listen to. [Smile]

Of course, if you do embrace that attitude, then it really doesn't matter when you tell her. She'll figure it out pretty quickly when you start parrotting the talking points. [Smile]

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Omega M.
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I never mentioned it to my last girlfriend. Occasionally I'd mention some news story I'd heard "on the radio" knowing that it was from Sean Hannity et al. But I didn't do that much, because she seemed to have no interest in any non-celebrity, non-entertainment, non-travel news (one of the things that eventually became too much for me to take from her).

Whenever we were together in the car, we listened to regular music stations, which was fine.

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Kent
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Michael Medved is great and Glenn Beck is pretty funny, but if you are listening to Hannity she probably should dump you.
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Storm Saxon
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quote:

but I find it more entertaining and less snobbish than, say, NPR.

If this is the way you perceive the two mediums, then I'm pretty sure the truth will come out at some point. [Wink]
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Gaoics79
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Depending on what she looked like, she could listen to Nazi radio and I might still stay with her [Smile]
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scifibum
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In a second. I can't have them knowing I'm un-American.
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OceanRunner
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No, obviously not. I wouldn't even dump someone for listening to liberal radio (when I was still single). Personally, I find it pathetic when people are so narrow-minded and partisan that a different political perspective, no matter how carefully thought out and respectful, is repugnant to them.

However, I do hate talk radio with a passion, and don't allow it in the car with me. So whatever DH listens to, and whatever previous boyfriends listed to, was really not an issue.

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Psudo
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quote:
It's the conservative-radio attitude--mindless contempt of everything labeled "Liberal"--that is so obnoxious.
You seem to think this is a much larger trend than I've seen. There are some truly mean-spirited conservative hosts (Mark Lavin comes to mind), but of the dozen or so radio hosts I know by name only two or three of them are really angry like that (and Micheal Savage doesn't count, since he is equally angry at right-wingers).

There are also a few libertarian or moderately right-wing hosts on the radio who have less of the venom for liberalism in their shows. And it helps to understand that right-wing hosts are typically bashing an ideology by metaphor when they seem to be bashing people they call "liberals". They're universally lousy at clarifying that, probably intentionally in hopes controversy will increase their ratings.

I don't especially like Sean Hannity, but he's civil about 90% of the time. The other 10% is offputting, I admit. And the joy he gets from liberals bashing on him is just stupid. He was better earlier in his career.

Rush Limbaugh is perhaps the most demonized of the conservative hosts. His personality on the show is the least like his portrayal elsewhere, usually because so many people can't tell the difference between his expression of his views and his satirical portrayal of outsiders' ideas of what it is to be conservative.

That's not very clear... I'll give an example. Rush once gave a "tax the poor" speech, wherein he declared that the poor in this country were too rich when compared with the poor internationally. They typically have two cars and three TV sets, he argued. Thus, we should have them sell all but one car and all but one TV set and give the money to the IRS. We'd get enough money from that to correct all the fed's budget deficits and get us back on track.

This, of course, is ridiculous. It might or might not work mathematically, but it's stupidly cruel and an obvious hoax. He was playing into the stereotype that conservatives have no compassionate for the poor to create an example of the injustice of punitive taxation on wealth that critics of conservatism would understand. It was a brilliant way to demonstrate that many critics of conservatism already agreed that wealth does not excuse harsh taxation by getting them to argue against a plan that did just that. Then, once they were calling in en masse and using the argument he himself believed, he admitted the hoax and revealed to them how those same arguments demonize high tax rates for the rich.

That was a big one, but he makes little jokes along the same line every day. He doesn't explain them unless someone asks (and usually a lot of someones), but it's a common theme to his show. These quotes are frequently cited as proof that he is racist or cruel or something by people who clearly don't understand the show. Thus, there's this huge gap between his actual self and his media portrayal.

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Omega M.
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quote:
Originally posted by Psudo:

I don't especially like Sean Hannity, but he's civil about 90% of the time. The other 10% is offputting, I admit. And the joy he gets from liberals bashing on him is just stupid. He was better earlier in his career.

It is painful when Sean gets "owned" by a caller, as in this conversation---it's like watching The Office:

CALLER: Sean, since you like Reagan so much, I was wondering what you have to say about Iran-Contra.
SEAN: Nothing. [long pause] And if that's the best you liberals can come up with, it's no wonder you keep losing elections. Okay, let's go to ...

(from long before the 2008 elections, obviously)

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rightleft22
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No I would not.

That said if the potential girlfriend debated or argued in the same manner as what I hear from some of these talk host personalities when we were discussing or trying to work through a problem or some such. That would be a deal breaker.

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Wayward Son
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quote:
Psudo said:
You seem to think this is a much larger trend than I've seen.

I suspect that the reason you have not seen the trend is due to perception rather than the lack of a trend. Unless you have Liberal sympathies, you may not notice how offensive, contemptuous, sarcastic and dismissive they are toward Liberals.

Normally I last only about five minutes with the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Mike Galligher, Laura Ingraham and Michael Mevded, before I turn them off and scream at them for being so partisanly blind. (Although I must admit I’ve lasted 15-20 minutes with Rush, at times.) Their complete and utter lack of understanding of the Liberal viewpoint, and their incredible distortion of that viewpoint, is annoying beyond words.

This is not “media perception.” This is my own experience.

And I am not a “flaming Liberal.” Although I tend to the Liberal side of many issues, I do recognize that pure Liberalism is not the answer. There has to be a balance between the rights of the individual and the rights of the collective. I just often believe that conservatives swing too far in defending the rights of the individual over the collective. But there is no acknowledgement of that in the Conservative Media. You are either with them or against them; far Left or dogmatically Right. Anything less is a betrayal of the Creed.

For example, I recall Laura Ingrahams’ opposition to Presidential Candidate John McCain in the last election. She felt he was a terrible candidate because he wanted to work with Liberals instead of defeating them. Her words. No media. No spin. No satire.

My reaction was predictable: “If you want war, bring it on, babe! We will crush you!” (And we did. At least, for this election. [Big Grin] )

Admittedly, the Left has some of this, too. I recall a Tom Tomorrow comic that used the same words as Laura. But I wasn’t as offended by Tom, because he wasn’t attacking my values. He wasn’t declaring war on what I believe is important.

Which is where perception comes in. Making fun of Bush is fun if you’re a Democrat, while making fun of Clinton is fun if you’re a Republican. Your hopes and values aren’t being attacked, so it isn’t such a big deal. But when your guy is getting the short end of the schtick, watch out! It is far more noticeable.

Thus the condescension of the Conservative Pundits is far more noticeable to Liberals.

To get a feeling of what it’s like, watch Keith Olberman’s “Countdown” for a while. He’s just as bad as most of the conservative radio and TV hosts: presents only the worst quotes from the Right, often out of context, with as much leftist spin as possible, and with a sarcastic, dismissive attitude that all conservative politicians and pundits are corrupt and hypocrites. The only difference is that I don’t recall seeing him attack Conservatism per se. He mainly focuses on the people more than the ideology. The Conservative Pundits also seem to target Liberal ideology. But to a true conservative, I’m sure he’s like salt in the wound. Especially when he catches one of the Pundits in some hypocritical or mindless quote. (I especially like the “Worst Person in the World” segment. [LOL] )

I think the trend is there. I suspect you just may not be sensitive to it.

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TommySama
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I broke up with a girl because she likes Macs and we got into a big argument.

But that's important stuff. I'm dating a Libertarian right now. We talk, she quotes Ron Paul, I tell her she clearly has a personality disorder, we laugh... unless you go out with a total psyco you can probably get over the conservative radio.

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Daruma28
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quote:
Originally posted by TommySama:
I broke up with a girl because she likes Macs and we got into a big argument.

But that's important stuff. I'm dating a Libertarian right now. We talk, she quotes Ron Paul, I tell her she clearly has a personality disorder, we laugh... unless you go out with a total psyco you can probably get over the conservative radio.

Pat yourself on the back Tommy, because you're dating someone smarter than yourself. [Razz]
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Mormegil
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I've definitely lost respect for people I found out listen to Michael Savage. If I was dating someone and they thought he was great, that'd sure be a deal-breaker.

Of course, the minute people find out my opinion, they backpeddle and claim they don't agree with everything he says, it's just something to listen to, he has a few good points, even though he's mean, blah blah blah. It could be true, I suppose. I know I listen to left-wing stuff that I sure don't agree with. But at least lefties lie and pretend they aren't jerks. The righties seem to be proud of their heartlessness.

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Daruma28
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quote:
Originally posted by Mormegil:
I've definitely lost respect for people I found out listen to Michael Savage. If I was dating someone and they thought he was great, that'd sure be a deal-breaker.

Of course, the minute people find out my opinion, they backpeddle and claim they don't agree with everything he says, it's just something to listen to, he has a few good points, even though he's mean, blah blah blah. It could be true, I suppose. I know I listen to left-wing stuff that I sure don't agree with. But at least lefties lie and pretend they aren't jerks. The righties seem to be proud of their heartlessness.

I've unplugged from talk radio...all TV news shows, newspapers etc. for quite some time now - perhaps 2 years or more since I even listened to any talk radio that wasn't sports related.

But I certainly understand the appeal of Michael Savage, and why I used to be a daily listener of his.

He gives vent to the rage conservatives feel when they are surrounded by a world of liberal orthodoxy as the mainstream, norm.

When you're at a cocktail party or a dinner, or some social event, it's fairly common to have a group of liberal/progressive folks discuss politics and take the tone that everyone MUST agree with their point of view...only uneducated, ignorant right wing rednecks would DARE to disagree.

Many conservative-minded folks like I used to be, will often bite their tongues and not interject or argue, but just go along to get along.

This happened to myself ALOT. All five years of attending University where democrat liberal consensus is nearly unanimous, and two years working in the State Government (where it is not nearly unanimous...it WAS unanimous), I found myself in that position literally hundreds of times.

But than it helps to tune Savage in when he's absolutely apoplectic, screaming into the microphone about how "liberalism is a mental disorder"...it's quite cathartic. [Big Grin]

He gives an acceptable outlet and you get to vicariously live through him, all of the that pent up frustration and rage you experience as a silent conservative - he says what you think every time you sat their in silence so as not to upset the group-think consensus of the brilliance of liberal ideology.

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swbarnes2
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quote:
Originally posted by Psudo:
He was playing into the stereotype that conservatives have no compassionate for the poor

So when the Wall Street Journal editorial page called poor people "lucky duckies", were they being satirical too?
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Psudo
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quote:
For example, I recall Laura Ingrahams’ opposition to Presidential Candidate John McCain in the last election. She felt he was a terrible candidate because he wanted to work with Liberals instead of defeating them. Her words. No media. No spin. No satire.
Some conservatives argue that that's the same point on which Bush went wrong.

The thinking is this: if this way works and that way doesn't, why compromise on a mix of the two? Take the way that works.

It's possible that compromise between Democrats and Republicans caused the financial crisis: Democrats wanted programs that encouraged banks to provide mortgages to low-income individuals who probably couldn't pay them back and federal insurance to protect banks from negative consequences, and Republicans wanted deregulation and reduced government oversight. The combination of incentive to make risky loans, the lack of any consequence if they weren't, and the lack of oversight to see the problem coming allowed banks to run stupid risks and, when the risks didn't pan out, demand a government bailout. Either the Democrat ideal (strong oversight and incentive toward risk) or the Republican idea (no oversight, and banks succeed or fail on their own) would have been better than the compromise.

Larua's is not a totally irrational statement, nor is it a discriminatory statement that calls liberals subhuman. It's the idea that fully reasonable is better than partly reasonable. The only conflict between you and her is where you think "reasonable" is.

quote:
To get a feeling of what it’s like, watch Keith Olberman’s “Countdown” for a while.
Pretty much all of my political discussions are with liberals of various stripes; it's boring talking with someone who agrees with you. I know what it's like in reverse, and I do pretty much the same thing liberal callers do on Rush's show - dispute those views as best I can.

quote:
I think the trend is there. I suspect you just may not be sensitive to it.
Maybe we're looking for different things. Sure, they think liberals are wrong, and they enjoy saying so. But Jon Stewart enjoys making Bush look stupid, too; I still enjoy his show. I don't mind the ideological views, I mind the pure bashing rhetoric. I've never heard anything on Rush's show that compares with Mark Lavin's vicious rants about how liberals are destroying America; even when I agree with Lavin's ideological point, his rhetoric offends me beyond my ability to listen.

It's not about their ideology or their willingness to compromise. It's about their entertainment value. Morose anger isn't entertaining, at least not to me.

quote:
But I certainly understand the appeal of Michael Savage, and why I used to be a daily listener of his.
I enjoyed him for a while. I think I have his book, Savage Nation, around somewhere. But I didn't need that catharsis, and gradually his anger started to bug me. I was pretty much ready to give him up with the local radio station replaced him with Michael Reagan. He's a lot more laid back and sociable rather than pent up and vicious, but he's also not as smart or articulate. It was an interesting trade.
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TommySama
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quote:
Originally posted by Daruma28:
quote:
Originally posted by TommySama:
I broke up with a girl because she likes Macs and we got into a big argument.

But that's important stuff. I'm dating a Libertarian right now. We talk, she quotes Ron Paul, I tell her she clearly has a personality disorder, we laugh... unless you go out with a total psyco you can probably get over the conservative radio.

Pat yourself on the back Tommy, because you're dating someone smarter than yourself. [Razz]
She's much older, too. I rule!
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elk
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quote:
He gives an acceptable outlet and you get to vicariously live through him, all of the that pent up frustration and rage you experience as a silent conservative - he says what you think every time you sat their in silence so as not to upset the group-think consensus of the brilliance of liberal ideology.
I mildly relate to this. I no longer listen to talk radio due to the lack of an extended drive to work, but when I did I couldn't take more than a couple minutes of Laura Ingraham. She annoyed the hell out of me.
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Daruma28
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Heh...my in-laws are ALL lock-step, Democrat Liberals...literal "Obama is the Messiah" type guys. And for over ten years now, they have no idea about my politics or views.

But I've sat there year after year at family events, and just bit my tongue or nodded in faux-agreement with my Wife's uncles and aunts anti-conservative/GOP diatribes and going on and on about the brilliance of Liberals/Democrats. Sometimes, I only made it through those moments by tuning them out and hearing Savage's voice in my head. "LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER!!!!" [LOL]

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Psudo
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quote:
Originally posted by swbarnes2:
quote:
Originally posted by Psudo:
He was playing into the stereotype that conservatives have no compassionate for the poor

So when the Wall Street Journal editorial page called poor people "lucky duckies", were they being satirical too?
I suppose it depends on who wrote the editorial, but if written by a conservative it most likely was intended to point out the disproportionate government help the poor get compared to those on the other side of the poverty line. There is no inherent moral difference between a poor person and a rich person, yet the rich are punished with higher taxes and the poor are rewarded with charity and welfare. It's not altogether unreasonable to question the morality of such a distinction, especially when you are one of the taxpayers who have no choice but to pay for such programs and have the voting power to influence change if you want it.

But I don't actually read the Wall Street Journal, nor were my remarks in this thread ever directed towards them. I don't know their character and have no urge to defend strangers' views.

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Brian
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So if Rush is just joking around, here is my question -

What is the difference between a tightly held opinion that you never let go, and a 'joke' opinion that you never let go because no-one (or, apparently, not enough people) call you on it?
The corallary is:
What is the difference between backpeddaling when the opposition turns up the heat, and running a gag which you only admit if the oppostion turns up the heat?

If he claims to not really hold these opinions, but he never admits to it if no-one calls him on it how do you know he isn't just backing down, without the courage to defend his convictions?


On another note, why is Bill O'Reilly going off the air?

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KnightEnder
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I don't think that it's that the rich have no compassion for the poor. I think they just have no conception of what being poor means.

My monther-in-law used to say they were "broke" when she couldn't buy her new monthly car. Or go on her bi-monthly vacation. And she was completely sincere. And I think Bush is the same way. They have absolutely no concept of what it means to have "no money". When Stacy and I said we were broke it meant we had to choose between feeding the kids and paying the bills. Thank God those days are over (Over because I'm white and can speak proper English and have decent clothes to play the part. Something most "poor" people can't do, even if they wanted to.)

KE

[ January 30, 2009, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: KnightEnder ]

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RickyB
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They cut down on the loofa budget at Fox.
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KnightEnder
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Wow, they are hurting.

KE

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KnightEnder
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Seriously; My company is "hiring" young people because our workforce is getting way old with no young people to take their place, and I have an 18 year old black friend, who has a 25 year old girlfriend with two kids, and I would love to get him on with us, but all joking aside; I can barely understand what he is saying sometimes. He just doesn't have the tools to even 'begin' to be taught a trade. And 'he knows' how poor our Houston schools are. And it's not just the speech problems; it's a whole slew of cultural problems that make him ineligible. [Frown] (Rap and other rebellious things like deliberately saying "axe" instead of "ask" and dressing in ways that make it impossible, okay, very hard, for him to get a solid job.) Maybe I should start a thread on the problems of cultural differences keeping the poor down?

I mean what am I supposed to do, tell him he speaks "wrong"? Dresses "wrong"?

Sorry for the derail. I'll start it up somewhere else. Sean Hannity is evil and mean much more often than 10% of the time. I assume that was a joke. I'd say he's not mean and evil towards liberals about 10% of the time, not vice versa. And he is worse than Rush or Big Daddy Bill or any of them. He might be the anti-Christ. (Now we're back on track. [Smile] )

KE

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elk
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No, Hannity isn't the anti-Christ, the anti-Christ would deliberately say "axe" instead of "ask" [Smile]
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Stevarooni
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Finding someone who agrees 100% on politics isn't a relationship-breaker, I don't think, but given today's attitude that "the personal is political", having sharp divergences from your Sweetie's basic political beliefs can make a relationship difficult. Dharma & Greg was funny precisely because it's fantastically unlikely...and even then, most of their friction was solved once Greg realized just how pigheaded he was being and gave in to her. [Razz]
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G2
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quote:
Originally posted by Mormegil:
I've definitely lost respect for people I found out listen to Michael Savage. If I was dating someone and they thought he was great, that'd sure be a deal-breaker.

I like Savage - he's comedic gold. [LOL] I laugh everytime he opens his mouth.
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Omega M.
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I find that I get a lot angrier (internally) at dumb liberals than at dumb conservatives. Usually dumb conservatives haven't had much education, so they might not know better; whereas dumb liberals typically have had more than enough education.
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Wayward Son
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Well, at least they're dumb in a smart way... [Smile]
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munga
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Savage is hilarious, not that we agree. If I drank, Savage would be my new best friend.
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Rallan
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Yeah I'd dump someone for listening to conservative talk radio. But then, I'd also dump someone for listening to top 40 radio [Smile]
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