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Author Topic: So Long Ornery
KnightEnder
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I told Stacy I was thinking of unregistering so I went to my email to see if the OM had responded to any of my letters, nothing. But while I was there I saw I had several letters from other OA members, both sides, basically saying good-bye. So I guess I'm not alone in my feeling that Ornery has fallen further than ever before and just isn't worth it any more. We've lost so many great members, again, on both sides, and the jene se qua (?) (that certain something) that made Ornery unique just isn't there anymore. Don't know if I'm going to unregister or just take a long break but I wanted to say good-bye to all my friends. It has been a great run and the place, you people, mean a lot to me and will always mean a lot to me. If I ever find somewhere that is like OA used to be or I end up some other place I'll email you. You all have my email address so keep in touch. I wish you all the best and hope life is good for you and your families.

KE
John
knightender@gmail.com

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0Megabyte
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Well, shoot.

Check your email, though I dunno if you'll see it here.

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RickyB
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I dunno dude, you tend not to return emails sometimes... [Big Grin]

Seriously, just take a break. Yeah, it's a pit. So's the world. [Smile]

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TommySama
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This is way less whiny and self-absorbed then the goodbye posts that were made when I first joined Ornery. (Remember that little kid who'd quote books from antiquity. Farewell post: "Sic Transit Gloria Mundia"). Just proves to me that OA has improved since then [Smile]
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The Drake
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I'm just curious as to what you thought Ornery used to be, that it is not now? It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. Do you feel you have done your part to maintain the quality of this place?

That said, I've certainly had my moments where I take a break, and I have become more selective about which threads I choose to participate in.

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Dave at Work
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So Long KE. I've been more lurking than participating lately myself and I wonder if it might be for similar reasons.
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TommySama
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Yeah you never answer emails, so I'll say bye here. Bye-bye. Don't kill that guy you work with !
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Kuato
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KE,

I'm going to miss you terribly. Not 100% why, but that I feel you are a Texan I relate to.

I think I am pulling back just a little myself but my reasons are

1) Everything I'm "rooting for" - politically and economically - is on the schedule at this point, whether or not entirely recognized, and the problem isn't persuading people anymore, the problem is making sure the decision gets executed the way I want and I can't get that from Ornery.

2) It's just the huge lull in politics. We aren't doing much different at the moment, but trying to do the things we decided to do, so no particular antics by politicians to enjoy and post and jaw about....

I'm seriously going to miss you, though. Please don't lose touch.

And don't forget a most important truth Economics provide for the feasibility of all things!

[ June 12, 2009, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: Kuato ]

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JoshuaD
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I'll miss you KE.
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Kent
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I've always loved that libertarian streak in you John. Take care.
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LetterRip
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quote:
I'm just curious as to what you thought Ornery used to be, that it is not now?
Not speaking for KE, but for myself, the frequency of worthwhile posts has gone down drastically. We no longer have much in the way of skilled advocates for the conservative nor liberal position.

quote:
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. Do you feel you have done your part to maintain the quality of this place?
Again, speaking for myself, no. I no longer have the time or patience to do well researched posts, or to point out the flaws that I find in others arguements.

It used to be something important to me the whole 'I can't sleep now, someone is wrong on the internets!', but I've lost much of my love of arguing and 'proving myself right', and while I care that my friends are well informed I've realized that the discussions are entirely futile in that they have zero impact on anything important. It really doesn't matter if everything that members of this site believe about energy, economics, environment, or social policy are entirely contrary to the truth.

LetterRip

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D Pace
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If you read this, Mr. Best Screen Name Ever, I appreciate eavesdropping on everything you have to say.

I had also recently wanted to ask you directly the contact information for your Mexican dentist. (you could set up an Ornery U on selecting and choosing a Mexican dentist). Seriously I will probably email you directly to ask if you never post it back here, but I'd appreciate the info if cheapskate me wanted to get a crown from the Same Guy that Saved John Myers III $x thousand dollars.

Your candor, honesty, coolness, care and self-awareness make it very worthwhile to listen here.

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DaveS
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quote:
We no longer have much in the way of skilled advocates for the conservative nor liberal position.
There's a lull in the political stuff, with the still virulent Rushophiles and ankle-biters remaining merely to squeeze the last bitter juice out of the conflict that was resolved for most of us with Obama's election. Beating up on G2 or Cherry is like trying to get meat off a bone. Aren't we all happy now? Can't we all just get along?

We used to discuss knowledge-based topics more, and in more depth. I miss that terribly. In any case, we are who we are and we change with every post.

Sayonara, KE. Best of luck to you!

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Colin JM0397
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LR, well said and I second that... Or third it - whatever... But it's still fun to dabble on occasion.

KE, you know you'll be back.

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kenmeer livermaile
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Yeah, he will. I owe his monkey $$. [Wink]
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LetterRip
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I agree that we have our ups and downs, but the ups have been lower peaks, and the downs seem like greater depths.

There are still good threads and posters, fer instance "The evil of scientific consensus" I'll definitely want to get around posting in.

OF course I'm aware that part of it is the Grandpa effect 'Back in my day...'.

LetterRip

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cperry
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wow, Knight. Really. Wow. I can't imagine Ornery without you. I hope you just take some time off and watch for things to turn. Don't abandon this community forever; there's still a lot here.

Missing you already.
CP

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rightleft22
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It isn’t Ornery, it is but it isn’t

For me Ornery has been reflection of the thinking of America in general, IMO, the level of discourse has fallen to an all time low (in reference to my memory). Just listing to what passes for news sends shivers down my back. Of all the fears we face in the world today this inability and or apathy to real dialog concerns me the most. And it’s reflected here on Ornery, everything is agenda, labeled, certain, Right, Left.. exhausting.

On the positive many have learned that it’s ok to be wrong and that it ok when others think we are wrong, we have learned to let go. But do we let to much go?

I would ask you not to go KE, take a break, but do not give up. If we give up discourse what do we reflect?

(In the military when you step off you go left-right-left it is because I am almost always out of step that I am rightleft22 )

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cherrypoptart
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I just saw something on Glenn Beck and like him or not it made a good point about the level of discourse across the country, in the media, over the water cooler, in the teachers' lounge, just about everywhere is going down because it seems like there is no longer any room for compromise or even respect for different positions.

It's the flip side of Bush's with us or against us mentality. Now everyone is doing it.

I just did a paper on change management and it was pretty interesting applying some of the concepts to what is going on in America today.

I guess the article I read isn't online, but here is a bit of something like it:

http://www.amazon.com/Harvard-Business-Review-Change-Paperback/dp/0875848842

From the Back Cover
Organizational change is a double-edged management tool. It can build a tighter, more focused business-or unleash a backlash of unrest and turbulence. Harvard Business Review has been a leader in exploring both the advantages and pitfalls surrounding corporate change initiatives, and with Harvard Business Review on Change comes an opportunity to reconsider, reassess, or discover for the first time many of these landmark ideas. From inspiring confidence and support while leading change, to understanding why employees so often resist transitions, this is the most comprehensive resource available for embracing change-and using it to your company's greatest advantage.

---------------------------------------------

The point I got out of it is that a lot of times people see disagreement and concern about change implementation as stonewalling or undermining it and if the changes failed, many times the people who refused to get on board get blamed for not helping the process enough to let it succeed, or indeed for sabotaging it.

So, there are hard feelings all around and it would really take a deft hand to manage it well. I hate to say it but on such a scope as this with so many entrenched beliefs it's pretty surely impossible to get everyone on board, and so both sides see the other in quite the unfavorable light. It probably doesn't help either that the stakes couldn't be higher.

Oh well, just stating the obvious again without much of a solution I'm afraid. It's easy to say don't take it so seriously, but easier said than done. I think I generally do okay because my wife and sister both are 180 degrees out of alignment with me politically and we talk all the time without losing respect for one another. Just have to take it easy. Relax. Realize that what's said on here, in the grand scheme of things, probably isn't going to change the world. Don't make it personal in any bad way. Just talk about the ideas.

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scouser1
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KE, you are an asset to this board.
Your warmth and welcomness knows no bounds.
I am very sad to see you go but I totally respect you and your decision.
You don't have to, but do keep in touch, maybe on facebook I dunno.
Stacy and the boys are so lucky to have a person like you in their lives.
You're awesome [Smile]

Lisa x

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hobsen
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Looks like no one wants KE to leave permanently. I concur.

Cherrypoptart noted, "It's the flip side of Bush's with us or against us mentality. Now everyone is doing it."

As I recall Cherry and I got into a furious debate almost the first day he arrived - and I learned some things. The sort of observation above is why no one should label him as mindlessly conservative.

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Ben
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Blink and I think I miss something. I haven't been participating (aka lurk and post a bit here and there) as much lately, given my life's changes the past half year, but I do count KE as a big part of Ornery and hope KE does go on hiatus rather than quit. Best wishes all around.
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Pyrtolin
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It's a shame to see anyone go, but everyone needs a little space from time to time to get themselves into order. Good luck, and I hope you can find a way back at some point.

quote:
Originally posted by cherrypoptart:
I just saw something on Glenn Beck and like him or not it made a good point about the level of discourse across the country, in the media, over the water cooler, in the teachers' lounge, just about everywhere is going down because it seems like there is no longer any room for compromise or even respect for different positions.

The only quibble I have with that is that "no longer" rests on a false implication that there ever really was such. It may be that its easier for people to chime in nowadays, but the level really hasn't changed all that much, only time, which wears the edge off of events as they get further behind us.

[ June 13, 2009, 11:20 PM: Message edited by: Pyrtolin ]

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RickyB
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cherry - the point when Beck saying something like this is not "like him or not, he has a point" - it's that coming from him, it's mealy mouthed. Even more than it would be, say, from me. I throw fire bombs, but I would toot my own horn and risk saying I make way more effort than he does to be fair - and still it's not a sentiment I would feel comfortable advancing, at least not without copious *personal* mea culpas.

Beck is an inflammatory ass, one of the very worst offenders, clearly intent on deposing the likes of Hannity and Savage from their respective niche perches. You can't go all out in the rat race and then gain deepness and morality points for saying something so heartfelt about how the rat race is an awful pursuit. Unless of course this augurs a totally new Glen...

[ June 14, 2009, 05:52 AM: Message edited by: RickyB ]

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PSRT
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flydye unregistered.
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Omega M.
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Did flydye say why? I see that Everard is unregistered, too; anyone know what happened?
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PSRT
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DaveS also unregistered.
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Redskullvw
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Fly told me succinctly that he was over it.

As to the "it" i'll just drop it there and comment no further.

As for DaveS I can't say I am shocked anymore than Everard unregistering without an explanation. Both were assets and both burned out I suppose.

As for KE, I really can't imagine the place without his input. It was never very weighty, but it usually was common Texan sense. Plus not knowing how his family is will create a small void.

The only way to fix it is if people debate ideas not the individual. And if people who lurk out of some sort of fear of engagement instead start hitting the reply button.

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Jordan
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I have to say that with Everard, flydye and KE gone, I'm actually starting to feel a bit morose about the Ornery situation.
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cperry
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This is making me sad. [Frown]
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Funean
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I'm willing to go on record as betting they will all be back. Besides, I plan on internet-stalking them. [Smile]
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kenmeer livermaile
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Ornery-stalking. Like Twitter on tequila and 'roids.

Could be fun.

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Omega M.
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I tend not to unregister from forums unless I don't want them having my email address. How do I know I won't decide a few months later to take a look and find something I want to comment on?
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rightleft22
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"The only way to fix it is if people debate ideas not the individual."

And or one could consider that within this communication medium it's meaningless to take offence on perceived attacks on ones self or written thoughts.

The experience on this site is limited to the sensory ability to read and write. We do not see, we do not hear, we do not feel, we do no listen, we do not taste, we cannot ‘know’… even as the words are seen, tasted, felt and heard - all that occurs within the self.


In some sense and at best in this virtual reality we are each others shadows. When you attack a characters identity or feel attacked you are merely fighting or fleeing some aspect of yourself.

[ June 30, 2009, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: rightleft22 ]

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kenmeer livermaile
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It is hard to debate ideas rather than the individual when most people cannot separate themselves from their ideas.

This is the essence of what is often considered to be Kenmeerian Curmudgeonry. Or, put rudely for emphasis' sake:

why should I distinguish your stupidity from your head when you can;t tell the difference, you stupidhead?

(Say it with a bad Puerto Rican accent and it's sublime.)

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