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Author Topic: No, I'm not above this thread
Funean
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So, Gov. Sanford! Anybody else read this trainwreck?

First thing I said when they reported his wife as saying (tersely) that she didn't know where her husband was: "He's having an affair."

Only illicit booty makes people act like such morons. Note to narcissists: You're not as clever as you think you are.

So, gawking aside, do you think he should resign as Governor? Why or why not? I'm inclined to think he should; not because of the affair (though he's a lying, entitled scumbag) but because he vanished without leaving anyone in charge, let alone telling anyone where he was.

And does anyone think this will do damage to the GOP's efforts to restore its "brand?" (yes, that's the word everyone's using...BRAND, as though the party's platform and ethos were a variety of paper towel)

(edited for dreaded inappropriate apostrophe)

[ June 24, 2009, 07:29 PM: Message edited by: Funean ]

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NobleHunter
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He should go. Personal indiscretions are one thing, but when you start blowing off work to go get... That indicates a lapse in judgment that goes beyond being a damned fool (if we insisted on every politician that was a damn fool resign, all the legislatures would be empty).

As for the "brand?" Why would it hurt? This isn't that much worse than other stories that have been floated recently. It's just another scandal for another day. In a few weeks, people will forget all about it.

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Kuato
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The conservatives are reaping the whirlwind for setting themselves up as "lights."

They should never have exalted themselves, because they are exactly as personally fallible as the next man, making the distinction idiotic. Liberals have not exalted themselves and so look far less stupid when caught in bathrooms stalls or Argentina.

(really, on this, you have to blame the churches. They pretend that they are, I'm afraid this is an accurate quote, "Godly men" and if that isn't alarming I don't know what is)

For leaving the Entire State of South Carolina without a head, yes, he gets to resign.

[ June 24, 2009, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: Kuato ]

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hobsen
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FOX News allegedly identified him as a Democrat.
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Kuato
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now, THAT is funny
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hobsen
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Yes, I felt sorry for the governor and his wife. But FOX News can be hilarious.
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Kuato
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they do it to themselves.

if you read the transcript of the conference, the man is right back at Stupid: he identifies...... MORE Godly upright men- spiritual giants, in fact (whom he has disappointed, of course).

*If I gave them a gun, would they ONLY think to play Russian Roulette with it? Do Conservatives EVER develop higher functions?

[ June 24, 2009, 09:22 PM: Message edited by: Kuato ]

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Greg Davidson
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Fox did label him as a Democrat; this is a frequent past practice for disgraced Republicans.
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scifibum
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The transcript is my new favorite piece of absurdity. There's just so much going on:

The "please don't get mad at me" setup - Spending minutes upon minutes expressing contrition mixed liberally with flattery for an as yet unidentified transgression. Yes, we're very endeared to you. Now what did you do, kiddo?

The devil made me do it - OK, to be fair this is where he says that if he'd obeyed God's laws he'd never have done this. But the insistent subtext is "I'm not a bad person."

Tender tenderness - wherein he feels the need to explain what a great lady is his illicit lover.

I'll take it like a man - Yeah, after you ramble and reminisce and simper for 10 minutes, you just take your medicine like a man. Yup.

We're working on it - The wife has known for five months and you're still sneaking off to make visits? You've had time to come to an understanding or sever one chain or the other.

Entitled is right. Somehow he's managed to keep hope alive for five months after getting found out. Who knows what kind of wheedling and whingeing went into that waffle?

Funean, I said something similar on Hatrack: it seems like 90% of bizarre behavior is related to sneaky infidelity.

Well, now it occurs to me maybe the rambling and nonsensical affirmations are supposed to somehow set him up for an insanity plea with the wife & kids. But it seems more likely it's the externalization of a cognitive dissonance with titanic amplitude.

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Kuato
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Sci,

That was an absolutely perfect analysis.

what a treat.

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TommySama
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"I lay it out. It's going to hurt.."

That's what.. he said?

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Jordan
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quote:
Kuato:
Liberals have not exalted themselves[…]

I should leave this for one of our conservative posters to dispute… but in the interests of bridging partisan divisions, I think it's fair to say that we have, and every bit as much as conservatives have. Both sides do so in rather different ways, though: to use a sweeping and unfair generalisation, conservatives call themselves "correct" and "moral," liberals call themselves "sophisticated" and "enlightened". What's more, I suspect neither side sees it as a matter of exhaulting itself—rather, exhaultation is in the eye of the beholder.
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PSRT
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The whole fox news tactic of labeling disgraced republicans (or not-conservative-enough republicans) as democrats is really convincing evidence that fox is more concerned with promoting the republican party than providing information. If they did it once, then it could be excused as a mistake. The pattern of mis-labeling disgraced politicians, however, makes it disgraceful.
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rightleft22
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What is it about “illicit booty that makes people act like such morons”?

Makes one wonder of the power of the shadow side of our natures and how self destructive we can be.

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Rallan
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quote:
Originally posted by Funean:
So, gawking aside, do you think he should resign as Governor? Why or why not? I'm inclined to think he should; not because of the affair (though he's a lying, entitled scumbag) but because he vanished without leaving anyone in charge, let alone telling anyone where he was.

Yeah I'm leaning towards your reasoning on this one. I don't think a guy who has an affair is unsuitable for an important administrative position (I mean really, how many CEOs would get voted out just for something like that?), but literally vanishing for an entire week without anyone being able to get in contact with him was just grossly irresponsible. Even a janitor or a shelf stacker would get fired for this, and they don't have nearly as much riding on their job as a state governor does.

I'm not gonna join the "Republican hypocrisy, lol" crowd just yet though. I don't know this guy from a bar of soap, so I don't know whether what he did was negligent and hilariously hypocritical or just plain negligent.

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Mormegil
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He should resign or be impeached just for being a COMPLETE FOOL. He was surprised to find out people wondered where he was. What a moron.

The man is a scumbag for committing adultery, but he is a FOOL as well, letting his hormones drive him to idiotic acts, no state deserves a guy like that in charge!

If any pro-family-values people are taking a hit because one of their own fell like this... well, it's your fault for supporting the Republicans in the first place. YOU are fools for thinking a POLITICAL PARTY cared about your values! They do not. They care about power. They are politicians. Republicans are not the party of God, or virtue, or values, or anything. They may support such things sometimes, as part of their means to power. You made the mistake of letting that buy your loyalty to the PARTY, instead of forming an uneasy and tenuous alliance to further *your* goals.

But conservative = Republican = God's Party in the mind of so many... of course it comes crashing down when the curtain is lowered and we all see the party contains power-hungry morons like... every other political party EVER.

So Fox News (which is a Republican news service, NOT a godly or family-values one!) has to falsely label the jerkface as a democrat to deceive it's sheep-like base. And of course it's deliberate, it has happened with so much frequency it's just prima facie.

It is a little funny though, the idea "a man cheated on his wife, he must be a democrat" thing. Since so many Democrats defended adultery so vociferously when Clinton did it, it's easy to believe if not paying attention. But the riposte is simply this: If a man cheats on his wife with a woman, he's a Democrat. If he cheats with a man, he's a Republican. Zing!

I really don't think an entire party is tarnished for the actions of one of its members... IF the party repudiates that member. Democrats flocked to defend Clinton... will Republicans defend Sanford? Will they ignore the issue as much as they can (almost worse, since it's cowardly)? Or will they say "he's betrayed the Republicans because we really do believe in family values"?

I'm betting on the cowardly option, to quietly ignore, then go back to listening to talk radio and watching Fox news where the pundits blast the liberals.

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Mormegil
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Ugh, I finally started to read Sanford's own words... what a scumbag. scifibum's analysis is correct. It's all excuses and weaseling out of it. Which is to be expected. You don't fly out of the country to cheat on your wife without usually feeling pretty justified doing so. I mean, that is pretty seriously pre-meditated.
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hobsen
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What rather surprises me is that there must be no telephones in Argentina. Otherwise the governor could have phoned his staff to let them know he was alive at least, rather than letting them worry he had been in a car wreck somewhere.
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rightleft22
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I have often wondered about the fall of men in power. It is all about sex?

Recently a well respected minister in my community was caught in an affair.
24/7 part of this mans job was to carry the projections of his congregations of a wise compassionate religious leader. What does a man of power do when the persona he has taken upon himself and or been asked to carry gets in the way of seeing the self?

We have all I think at times felt like a fake in our personal lives, in our jobs in are own sense of being. Thinking that if people really knew what we were like they wouldn’t like us very much. – Basically a realization that people, even family, maybe especially family, don’t ‘see’ us. It is a realization of being alone. In such a case a affair is often a rejection of the persona and an affirmation of ones shadow thoughts. It isn’t just about sex its about ‘seeing’ our selves.

While in my twenty’s after visiting my family for a few days I would visit a strip club on the way back to my home. In my family I got caught up in the role of playing the good Christian son and the strip club was a rejection of a persona by the embracing the worse of what I thought I really was. At the time of course I was unaware, untill I noticed the pattern and asked myself why as I never really enjoyed going to strip clubs.

[ June 25, 2009, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: rightleft22 ]

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hobsen
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To quote Benjamin Franklin, "I shall never ask, never refuse, and never resign an office."

Presumably the state has some means of impeaching a governor and removing him from power if that is desired. Let the legislators do so, if they want to set such a precedent. But the governor has a right to require them to specify exactly on what grounds they are disregarding the will of the voters who elected him to office, and to conduct any defense he chooses. Frightening a governor out of office by a lot of public clamor works only against one who is spineless, which may well be true in this case.

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Viking_Longship
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From what he said he has a long time personal relationship with the woman in question. I don't really know what the state of his marriage was like so I'm not going to throw stones about his personal life. People have affairs sometimes.

As for leaving South Carolina ungoverned for a few days, well you don't show up to work for four days and don't call in you get fired.

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Mormegil
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Handy Republican Sex Scandal Flowchart

Heheh.

quote:
People have affairs sometimes.
So what? There's hardly anything foul that you can't say that about.

Anyway, his wife issued a statement indicating she believed very strongly in marriage, that she tried to forgive and reconcile with him after discovering his infidelity, but eventually asked him to leave.

Sounds like he's just a scumbag.

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hobsen
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This from Associated Press may explain a lot:
quote:
Marshall C. Sanford Jr. is about as lame as a lame-duck governor can be. Term-limited and marginalized by opponents within his own party, the 49-year-old Republican was essentially waiting out his last 18 months in office as people speculated about his presidential prospects in 2012.
Perhaps he did not have a lot to lose.
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Mormegil
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quote:
Perhaps he did not have a lot to lose.
Just respect in the eyes of his children, I guess.

For me that's priceless, but his mileage varies, apparently.

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Viking_Longship
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quote:
Our best estimates, which come from studies done in the last five to ten years, reveal that 45-50% of married women and 50-60% of married men engage in extramarital affairs at some point in their relationships. So somewhere around half of all Long Term Love Relationships (LTLRs) are marked by this ultimate betrayal.


Divorce mag

I am going to refrain from throwing stones. Unlike murder or theft it's a pretty common sin. I'm sure not going to throw around around the word "scumbag".

The day that all democratic politicians live eniromentally friendly lives and send their kids to public schools I'll start crowing about Republicans failing to meet their own moral standards.

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Wayward Son
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quote:
The day that all democratic politicians live eniromentally friendly lives and send their kids to public schools I'll start crowing about Republicans failing to meet their own moral standards.
The day Democrats criticize particular Republicans for not living environmentally-friendly lives and for not sending their kids to public schools is the day I'll agree that there is some sort of equivalence between those and the way Republicans handle adultery. [Smile]
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hobsen
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That is a pertinent observation, Mormegil. I meant he did not have a lot to lose politically, not that he was right to start an extramarital affair. Clearly his marriage was troubled, and perhaps it could not be saved, and perhaps he had even met a woman with whom he could be happier. But more responsible people try to reach a decision on whether they will divorce or attempt to reconcile, and take appropriate action, before throwing adultery into the mix. That almost invariably makes a friendly parting difficult, and hurts the children involved, more than would otherwise be the case. That he did not do so probably happened - in addition to his perhaps being a scumbag - because he would have preferred the public announcement to take place after he left office. What actually happened was, as Funean remarked, a trainwreck. That is common enough, but it is certainly not the best way in which marital differences can be handled, either for the parties most involved or for their children.
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Redskullvw
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The guy belongs to a party that holds a promise given is one you should keep. There is a fudge factor if you promise all sewer lines will be built in 3 years and instead it takes 4. But when you tell a woman that you want her hand in marriage, and then state before god and the public that you promise to always be faithful to her, most people think there isn't any room for fudge factoring.

The guy banged an Argentinean behind his wife's back. If he cannot live up to his sacred promise to his wife, why would anyone expect him to keep his word about any political promises he makes. If a Democrat does this, they get a pass because its always a "private" matter. And that is fine, because in general most Democrats see marital failings as fairly normal especially amongst their political leaders. But Republicans represent that they take marriage more seriously and hold family values as being centrally important to how they govern. So when a Republican breaks such a vow, it isn't like the rank and file is asking him to fall on his sword for the good of the party.

We are asking him to fall on his sword because we don't like liars. If you lie to your wife, it certainly isn't harder to lie to the voters or the public once you are in office. Guy needs to resign ---yesterday.

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Redskullvw
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Oh and as to Fox initial breaking news report he was a Democrat- they have also gotten Democrats indentified as republicans during breaking news. For that matter MSNBC and CNN often get party affiliations wrong.

I used to love reading CNN's crawler when errors would go un corrected for hours.

But I don't jump on a bandwagon saying CNN is definitely a Democratic Party organ as a result of these frequent errors.

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hobsen
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If you have seen such errors frequently, obviously FOX is not alone in making them. FOX News broadcasts did idenify Sanford as a Republican repeatedly during the time his affair was a hot topic, so they were not imposing a blackout on that fact.
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Wayward Son
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quote:
So when a Republican breaks such a vow, it isn't like the rank and file is asking him to fall on his sword for the good of the party.

We are asking him to fall on his sword because we don't like liars. If you lie to your wife, it certainly isn't harder to lie to the voters or the public once you are in office.

Although I applaud this ideal, Red, I don't see it practiced very well.

Sure, when the scandal breaks, there is a hue and cry for blood. But after the initial outrage dies down, Republicans go back to listening to and trusting adulterers as much as Democrats. It is more the Democratic adulterers that become pariahs, regardless of how long the publicized event occurred.

Otherwise, how can you explain Newt Gingrich's current popularity? [Smile]

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Redskullvw
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wayward

Yep our republican scum seems to think that the rank and file will forgive them because the alternative is a democrat in office often as a result. The thing is we really do think he don't lie to your wife. If you do lie to your wife, it means that you don't even care about the person who is presumably the most important in your life.

As to Newt, we indeed appreciate his conceptual policy and commentary. But even in Georgia, I seriously doubt republicans would vote him into an elected office- and he knows why. As an elected leader, to stiff his wife as he did demonstrated conclusively to the voters that he could not be a leader. Newt intellectually understood this of his supporters. Its why he resigned and also why he hasn't run for office again, even though many of the solutions he offers are wildly supported by the republican rank & file.

We have forgiven him for his failures, but we wont be electing him again into a political leadership.

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TommySama
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"As an elected leader, to stiff his wife as he did demonstrated conclusively to the voters that he could not be a leader."

Wait, if he did this, whats the problem?

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Redskullvw
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Tommy if you tell a woman that in return for mutual faithfulness that you will never again stick your penis into another woman's vagina - and then you do it anyway- then you have pretty conclusively demonstrated that when it comes to important promises where you must tell the truth- you don't tell the truth even if it concerns the person who should be the most important human on the planet to you.

So while Newt is a nice guy and just as human as the rest of us, he did decide that sticking his penis into another woman was more important than telling that other woman that he made a promise to his wife that he must uphold. Which is why as a voter, I'd take anything he said campaigning for office with a grain of salt.

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TommySama
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Oh you mean he stiffed some other woman than his wife. Now I get it [Wink]
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Redskullvw
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Yes I meant literally stiffed. I figured it was common knowledge, but I see why you missed it. My bad.
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RickyB
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So when he presented his just-out-of-cancer-surgery wife with divorce terms demanding that she sign, and then left her and the kids so destitute that the church had to pass the plate around for them - that didn't disqualify him, only sticking his dick in a woman not his wife broke the camel's back?

OK.

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Redskullvw
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I didn't say it was a happy first marriage. And yes he was a jerk about it concerning his wife, but then again she was not exactly a very nice person at the time either, having claimed Newt was a failure and wouldn't gain further office on her back. So yeah kinda a sucky marriage. They lived down the street from me at the time. And no I wasn't particularly fond of either one of them at the time.

But he didn't violate his vows until he divorced her. As to his second wife, reputedly a very nice charming person who had no clue the marriage was in danger or that Newt was screwing around with a woman who would become his third wife. Which is why the issue is now a political issue because as speaker of the house he was not living up to his mandate as being honest and faithful.

But then again you aren't from Cobb County and can't possibly understand small town politics at that time. Nor I guess can you understand people here could deal with the legal dissolving of a pretty ugly marriage and not consider either one to be a pariah. But by the time he was in Washington and we learned that he was stiffing someone else instead of his wife, and that consensus was that she was still a very nice person who didn't deserve the treatment we got- most of us called the Speaker's Office and told him to resign and never run again.

The two divorce episodes as related to his career timeline now a bit more clear?

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Wayward Son
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quote:
As an elected leader, to stiff his wife as he did demonstrated conclusively to the voters that he could not be a leader. Newt intellectually understood this of his supporters. Its why he resigned and also why he hasn't run for office again, even though many of the solutions he offers are wildly supported by the republican rank & file.

We have forgiven him for his failures, but we wont be electing him again into a political leadership.

I'm glad that Georgian Republicans feel so very strongly about personal integrity in their leadership.

If only the rest of the Republicans agreed with them.

But (as Keith Olbermann recently pointed out), there are still a few other Republican adulters out there.

Senator Ensign, Senator Vitter, and Governor Sanford are all currently still in office (IIRC) after admitting to affairs.

Rudy Guiliani made a decent run for the Republican Presidential nomination.

And John McCain made a decent run for President as the Republican nominee.

And let's not count out Newt for the 2012 nomination just yet. [Smile]

As I said before, although I applaud the ideal, I just don't see it practiced very well.

[ June 29, 2009, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: Wayward Son ]

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hobsen
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Gingrich was elected to his 11th term in the House of Representatives on November 4, 1998 and resigned on November 6, 1998. The vote totals were:

Gingrich (R) Pelphrey (D)
164,966 68,366
70.7001% 29.2999%

That result showed a big increase of support for Gingrich in his home district compared to the 1996 election, which he won with 57.8% of the vote. So I find it hard to believe he resigned because Republican voters had turned against him two days later. Had he cared to continue in the House, experience suggests voters would have forgotten about his marital conduct over the next two years, or at least not cared enough to vote for anyone else. Even now he remains very popular.

[ June 29, 2009, 04:24 PM: Message edited by: hobsen ]

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