I'm not new to the forum, I just don't post very often and I keep losing my damned password...
I just read most of this post, and I'm finding it more than a little baffling as to how you people can keep arguing like this...what exactly are you arguing about anymore, anyway? I kind of lost you after the third page.
I think the problem is that you don't actually have anyone to argue with--the two of you hold nearly the same beliefs as far as I can tell, yet you're so ready to bash each other over the head with rhetoric and semantics. You should really discuss this over a couple of beers; I can imagine you'd end up going home with your arms on each other's shoulders laughing at yourselves. You're threatening each other now but it's hard to imagine a couple of guys who don't know each other actually going at...well at least going at it without being paid for a public match on Fox.
The atmosphere of anonymous posting seems to foster much hostility. Perhaps the display of overwhelming belligerence is just a release of tensions which remain unexpressed in real-world lives. It's easy to curse someone out when there's no consequence.
Then again, having just signed up for a new user name, I'm reminded of that manifesto for the ornery forum; if OSC happened by your post I think he would be unpleased by your behavior.
And, yes--I really am omnipotent. I get it from this omnipotence machine I bought from Jerry who can be found on third avenue between the hours of 12 and 3 in the morning. But not on Sundays. Sundays are free meals night.
Edit: Uh, I meant to post this on the homosexualaty page, but I guess this is a good place to rant about other people ranting about pointless and nonsensical topics.
[This message has been edited by JonathanTheOmnipotent (edited September 23, 2002).]
I never meant the discussion was trivial. I meant you guys were arguing over trivial points; you both seem to believe gays and lesbians should have the same rights as everyone else, but you seemed to have ended up yelling at each other over...actually it seemed so trivial I don't even remember.
But don't take it personally. Everyone deserves a good rant now and then.
As far as Ev vs Red, it doesn't matter what type of government is in charge, so long as you can trust the leaders not to take advantage of the people. Modern Democracy seems to have worked best thus far, providing a higher standard of living for a greater amount of people than ever. But if Ev or Red are trustworthy, hey let's take it for a spin.
If I might speak in my defense. The truth is Eddie is afraid of me because I don't quail easily (oh I have had an assault charge, Oh I can bench press more than you, lions and tigers and bears oh my!), it comes from leading a full and challenging life. I do not approach things with Eddie's triviality. Generally that includes following through with my ideals. I should have more sympathy for Eddie, as a foolish child he really doesn't know much, but my approach has always been that those with whom I dialogue with are at least of a certain level of knowledge, and while I at times am disdainful of an idea I try to keep it within the confines of an idea, I have been attempting a more civil approach. Some think that youth is an excuse for excess and lack of civility. I worked in the coal mines once thinking that way, until a less educated redneck brought me to my senses (I suppose its the diffrence between knowledge and wisdom).
As to Ev and Red. I have had my arguments claiming Red and Ev both believe in the same diamond, just unique facets of that same diamond (FA Hayeks book "Road to Serfdom" 1938). I intend to(upon increasing my knowledge of economic fascism versus economic communism) to bring both to full circle so that Red will bow to me in humility (it may take a while). Still, he and I do see eye to eye on a number of other issues and I find his unique perspective helpful in more fully explaining mine.