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Author Topic: Recruiting the children
G2
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On September 8th (next Tuesday), The One will be beamed directly into K-12 classrooms to address the children directly. The first time a president has ever done such a thing according to Education Secretary Arne Duncan. I doubt anyone is surprised, the left has a long history of pushing into the schools:
quote:
The activist tradition of government schools using students as junior lobbyists cannot be ignored. Zealous teacher’s unions have enlisted captive schoolchildren as letter-writers in their campaigns for higher education spending. Out-of-control activists have enlisted their secondary-school charges in pro-illegal immigration protests, gay marriage ceremonies, environmental propaganda stunts, and anti-war events.
I'm sure we've all seen those over the last 8 years unless you've been living in a cave. So what's new here? There are event-related guides developed by the U.S. Department of Education’s Teaching Fellows where grade-school students will be told to “listen to the speech” and “could think about the following”:
quote:
  • What is the President trying to tell me?
  • What is the President asking me to do?
  • What new ideas and actions is the President challenging me to think about?

Students can record important parts of the speech where the President is asking them to do something. Students might think about:
  • What specific job is he asking me to do?
  • Is he asking anything of anyone else? Teachers? Principals? Parents? The American people?

After the speech, teachers will ask students:
  • What do you think the President wants us to do?
  • Does the speech make you want to do anything?
  • Are we able to do what President Obama is asking of us?

The event guide then directs the teachers to get the kids to
quote:
  • Create posters of their goals. Posters could be formatted in quadrants or puzzle pieces or trails marked with the labels: personal, academic, community, country. Each area could be labeled with three steps for achieving goals in those areas. It might make sense to focus on personal and academic so community and country goals come more readily.
  • Write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president. These would be collected and redistributed at an appropriate later date by the teacher to make students accountable to their goals.

Obviously this not a simple morale boosting, 'stay in school' type of message being planned. He's going to ask children to do something and will extend that to all the others listed above and try to hold them accountable. No idea what that something could be, we'll have to wait until Tuesday unless somebody leaks it before then.

So what's the concern? Recall Obama's deep association with Bill Ayers and the Chicago Annenberg Challenge (CAC). According to the WSJ:
quote:
… The CAC’s agenda flowed from Mr. Ayers’s educational philosophy, which called for infusing students and their parents with a radical political commitment, and which downplayed achievement tests in favor of activism.
Put the historical education goals of Obama/Ayers/CAC with Obama's unprecedented push into the classroom and what should we surmise is the ultimate goal of this effort? What specific job will the president be asking the children to do? Assuming he will follow the philosophy he and Ayers promoted at the CAC, is everyone cool with the president attempting to turn children into activists for his agenda?

[ September 02, 2009, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: G2 ]

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scifibum
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quote:
Obviously this not a simple morale boosting, 'stay in school' type of message being planned. He's going to ask children to do something and will extend that to all the others listed above and try to hold them accountable. No idea what that something could be, we'll have to wait until Tuesday unless somebody leaks it before then.
Somebody like the Dept of Education?

quote:
President Obama announced that on September 8 — the first day of school for many children across America — he will deliver a national address directly to students on the importance of education. The President will challenge students to work hard, set educational goals, and take responsibility for their learning. He will also call for a shared responsibility and commitment on the part of students, parents and educators to ensure that every child in every school receives the best education possible so they can compete in the global economy for good jobs and live rewarding and productive lives as American citizens.
That's from a week ago, BTW.

[ September 02, 2009, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: scifibum ]

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Wayward Son
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Oooooooo. Now the Obama is after our children! You'd better watch out, or the Obama's gonna gitcha! Booga, booga, booga!! [Eek!]

G2, the teacher's guides you posted look like the same old tired lesson plans that we've all been subjected to since grade school. Nothing new there. It will be interesting to see what the President has to say to our kids. But I rather doubt it will be much more than what they are all ready being taught.

I know the tin-foil-hatters and conservative demagogues will be howling about whatever Obama has to say, but why don't we wait to find out exactly what he does say before worrying about it? It may turn out to be "a simple morale boosting, 'stay in school' type of message." [Smile]

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MattP
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"shared responsibility" - Communism
"global economy" - New World Order
"productive lives" - Stalin talked a lot about being productive. Also, wasn't there something about the death panels making medical decisions based on productivity?

G2 was right!

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scifibum
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quote:
It may turn out to be "a simple morale boosting, 'stay in school' type of message."
Unless the announcement about the subject matter of the speech is just a red herring.

BTW, the think about being accountable is under this heading: "Extension of the Speech: Teachers can extend learning by having students..." There's no hint that the Dept. of Education will be following up to hold students accountable for obeying the President.

(Accountable for doing their best to get a good education.)

[ September 02, 2009, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: scifibum ]

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Lobo
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Are schools required to participate?
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threads
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quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
quote:
President Obama announced that on September 8 — the first day of school for many children across America — he will deliver a national address directly to students on the importance of education. The President will challenge students to work hard, set educational goals, and take responsibility for their learning. He will also call for a shared responsibility and commitment on the part of students, parents and educators to ensure that every child in every school receives the best education possible so they can compete in the global economy for good jobs and live rewarding and productive lives as American citizens.
That's from a week ago, BTW.
(open question)

What do people find objectionable about this?

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DonaldD
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quote:
Are schools required to participate?
If they are, that decision would need to come from the school boards. Was this question leading somewhere, or did you not realize where school policies are set?
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G2
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quote:
Originally posted by Wayward Son:
Oooooooo. Now the Obama is after our children! You'd better watch out, or the Obama's gonna gitcha! Booga, booga, booga!! [Eek!]

G2, the teacher's guides you posted look like the same old tired lesson plans that we've all been subjected to since grade school. Nothing new there. It will be interesting to see what the President has to say to our kids. But I rather doubt it will be much more than what they are all ready being taught.


Yeah, you were also sure the C4C would pay everyone too ...

If Obama sticks to education and personal achievement in his speech, there should be no controversy. Standard fare for classrooms. You think he's going to stick to that message after his unprecedented free fall in the polls and the beating he's taken over the last month? Or will this be his opportunity to work it from another angle?

It will be interesting to see and it's quite a fine line he will have to walk with this one.


quote:
Originally posted by Wayward Son:
I know the tin-foil-hatters and conservative demagogues will be howling about whatever Obama has to say, but why don't we wait to find out exactly what he does say before worrying about it? It may turn out to be "a simple morale boosting, 'stay in school' type of message."

It may, but I suspect there is very little he could say to these kids that would worry you. You're a true believer, there are no boundaries. [Smile]
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scifibum
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threads, I imagine that people who disagree with the concept of 'shared responsibility' might not like it - libertarians and small government advocates. In other words, people who are probably against public schools in the first place.

But I think G2 is demonstrating a response of a different kind - not that the announced subject of the speech is objectionable (since I started typing he mentioned that would cause 'no controversy'). Rather, he's helping to spread the idea that Obama might be trying to recruit little Leftists. I suppose the imagined version of the speech would include things like 'everyone should have health care' and 'don't cling to your religion'. [Wink]

It's still possible that Obama will do something like this, of course. But it would be very surprising, because it would alienate a large percentage of the country and Obama would anticipate this, and also because he's said he's going to do something else.

I think he'll stick to the announced subject matter. Those who are trying to make political hay out of this don't seem to bother to say they don't believe the President will stay on the announced topic - instead, they seem to be trying hard to avoid mentioning it.

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G2
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quote:
Originally posted by threads:
quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
quote:
President Obama announced that on September 8 — the first day of school for many children across America — he will deliver a national address directly to students on the importance of education. The President will challenge students to work hard, set educational goals, and take responsibility for their learning. He will also call for a shared responsibility and commitment on the part of students, parents and educators to ensure that every child in every school receives the best education possible so they can compete in the global economy for good jobs and live rewarding and productive lives as American citizens.
That's from a week ago, BTW.
(open question)

What do people find objectionable about this?

Nothing. Why do you think they would?

What people find objectionable is the educational philosophy promoted by Obama "..which called for infusing students and their parents with a radical political commitment, and which downplayed achievement tests in favor of activism." A guy that pushes this type of agenda wants to exhort children to do something and we're not entirely sure what yet. I know, Obama said something. Obama says a lot of things and they rarely turn out true so let's skip what Obama says and look at what he's done.

The true believers would have you simply accept that all is well and there be no need for any concern when it comes to the government caring for children and prompting them to do something (no need to even know what that something is it seems). The left has a little history, as I noted in the OP, of using school children to political ends. Obama has promoted a philosophy of doing that very thing. I think a little concern is in order but hope that, in the end, it's unwarranted.

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scifibum
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quote:
If Obama sticks to education and personal achievement in his speech, there should be no controversy. Standard fare for classrooms. You think he's going to stick to that message after his unprecedented free fall in the polls and the beating he's taken over the last month? Or will this be his opportunity to work it from another angle?
There's a problem here. You simultaneously suggest that Obama might use this an opportunity to improve his standing in polls of adults, and that he's got a really long range commitment to the Democrat party such that he needs to get kids on the right side.
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Gina
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Predictably, the left pooh-poohs this, though if it were a Republican President demanding air time in every school in America, we'd be hearing a different tune.

I am sure this is not just about pushing his policies, but also about branding. I went to a state university that adopted Pepsi as its "official soft drink" in exchange for sizable donations to the sports teams. The rationale on Pepsi's part was that forcing students to drink their product and see their logo everywhere would create lifetime Pepsi-drinkers. Obama is all about the Obama brand, and if he can create Obama sycophants early, they'll be more open to progressive stuff later.

The Obama administration not only doesn't understand the dignity of the office they hold, they simply don't care. It's the perpetual campaign. They are creating and maintaining a brand.

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Wayward Son
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quote:
Yeah, you were also sure the C4C would pay everyone too ...
Actually, I still think they will pay all dealers, although it is taking longer than anyone planned. Hopefully, none will go bankrupt because of the delays.

Or can you point out to me specific dealers that know they will never be paid?

quote:
You're a true believer, there are no boundaries. [Smile]
You know, it is getting very tiresome hearing you call me "a true believer." I believe that Obama is a decent, intelligent person, leaning to the left but basically working for the good of the country. But I am open to change that opinion if there is evidence to show that. Someone open to changing his opinion is not a "true believer" in my book.

Of course, this thread offers absolutely no proof that I am wrong, since it is simply speculating (and rather wildly, IMHO) on what may happen during Obama's speech. If wanting to wait until there is proof makes me a "true believer," then I will accept that label with pride.

But what does that make you, then? [Wink]

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scifibum
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quote:
Predictably, the left pooh-poohs this, though if it were a Republican President demanding air time in every school in America, we'd be hearing a different tune.
Maybe. But I doubt you'd hear it from people who have posted in this thread.
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scifibum
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quote:
The Obama administration not only doesn't understand the dignity of the office they hold, they simply don't care. It's the perpetual campaign. They are creating and maintaining a brand.
What is undignified about encouraging children to take education seriously?

Maybe you mean IF he uses the speech to try to persuade the schoolchildren that they ought to be Democrats?

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kenmeer livermaile
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Jesus. So Fearless Leader uses the bully pulpit to encourage kids to excel in school.

Wow. What a friggin' conspiracy. I would have had NO problem with Dubya doing this. In fact, he should have, considering his No Child Left Behind, um, mandate, requiring schools adhere certain p[olicies as demanded on a federal level.

But that wasn't a push into public school, was it?

G2 and Gina, will you learn to distinguish a mountain from a molehill on some basis other than your personal biases? That's not an exhortation, it's a question. Sort of a challenge. But I won't ask you to chart any goals you might have in this regard and write them down.

There are some real issues with the Obama admin: his velvet-glove treatment of the financial industry that has received so much money from us; his to-date limp-wristed approach to dealing with the torture authorized by the last administration.

There are serious issues Obamadmin should be taken to task over.

But this? This is just more of an unremitting stream of attempts by certain Orneryans to score brownie points by pointing at largely nonexistent skidmarks in political underwear not declaredly right of center.

This is meaningful political discourse? I mean, in context of the overall circumstances we face as a nation?

It was a joke when people accused the Bush admin of using terror alerts to score political points. Oh, they may well have, and polls suggest it would have been a valid political tactic, but so what? What the **** does a terror alert *mean*?

Means ****. Orange, chartreuse, dead gothic alabaster, purple mountains' majesties: yee-haw. Doesn't keep us safe from squat.

(al-qaeda voice: "Cancel the attack! The Americans have raised the terror alert to red! Now they will know what we plan to do! ai-YEEE!")

So, now that at least some political buttwax has been removed from those with ears to hear, let me ask:

Is there potentially meaningful, significant, and metrically detectable good to be had from Obama doing the above? If 1% of schoolkids are inspired to achieve more via public schooling because of this, will this have been a worthwhile investment of Obama and the public schools' time?

And for those who see socialist Ethiopians lurking in every democratic woodpile, I ask, would this plausibly possible improved achievement outweigh any plausibly probable government inroads into our public school systems?

If Obama addressed every class once a year to encourage them to do better, this would be socially detrimental just *how*, exactly?

And some people wonder why I don't play nice with certain kids in the Ornery schoolyard. Yeesh.

[ September 02, 2009, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: kenmeer livermaile ]

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kenmeer livermaile
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"Obama says a lot of things and they rarely turn out true"

You should be on talk radio. If you'd at least substituted 'that' for "and they", this would stand.

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Gina
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quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
quote:
The Obama administration not only doesn't understand the dignity of the office they hold, they simply don't care. It's the perpetual campaign. They are creating and maintaining a brand.
What is undignified about encouraging children to take education seriously?

Maybe you mean IF he uses the speech to try to persuade the schoolchildren that they ought to be Democrats?

No, I mean that the man obviously can't get enough of hearing his own voice and seeing his image flickering across TV screens. They've demanded more prime-time air time than most Presidents got away with, and now they're demanding air time in schools. If he could get away with it, Obama would no doubt make it socially unacceptable- if not illegal- to not listen to him drone for a specified amount of time every week.

I call to mind the faces of North Koreans with their plastered-on smiles listening to Dear Leader crank on and on and on, clapping at all the required moments. Kim Jong-Il no doubt includes lots of mushy niceness in his speeches, too- do well in school, work hard for the people, etc. etc. It's not the content, it's the packaging, the narcissism of it all, that is creepy and nauseating.

We would have regular school activities suspended at times to watch the news, but that was when actual world or national events were happening, not when Obama got an itch to give another Historic Moment In Political Rhetoric.

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TomDavidson
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I have to admit that it must be really creepy to have a popular president you dislike. The T-shirts with Bush's face on them didn't sell so well.
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threads
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Gina, it's not clear to me what you object to. Is it that Obama in particular is giving this speech or do you find the idea of this speech, and the goals quoted by scifbum above, objectionable in general? If your problem is with Obama giving the speech then doesn't it make more sense to actually listen to it before criticizing it?

[ September 02, 2009, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: threads ]

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scifibum
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quote:
Originally posted by Gina:
quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
quote:
The Obama administration not only doesn't understand the dignity of the office they hold, they simply don't care. It's the perpetual campaign. They are creating and maintaining a brand.
What is undignified about encouraging children to take education seriously?

Maybe you mean IF he uses the speech to try to persuade the schoolchildren that they ought to be Democrats?

No, I mean that the man obviously can't get enough of hearing his own voice and seeing his image flickering across TV screens. They've demanded more prime-time air time than most Presidents got away with, and now they're demanding air time in schools. If he could get away with it, Obama would no doubt make it socially unacceptable- if not illegal- to not listen to him drone for a specified amount of time every week.

I call to mind the faces of North Koreans with their plastered-on smiles listening to Dear Leader crank on and on and on, clapping at all the required moments. Kim Jong-Il no doubt includes lots of mushy niceness in his speeches, too- do well in school, work hard for the people, etc. etc. It's not the content, it's the packaging, the narcissism of it all, that is creepy and nauseating.

We would have regular school activities suspended at times to watch the news, but that was when actual world or national events were happening, not when Obama got an itch to give another Historic Moment In Political Rhetoric.

Well, I won't pretend that I think Obama hasn't thought about how this will help his image. [Smile] However, I think there's probably a good motive wrapped up in there with the narcissism and ambition. He probably really does think he can make a small difference, and recognizes that he's uniquely situated to have an impact. And mostly, I don't think there's anything wrong with what he's said he'll do. (I'm happy to reassess afterward, in case he does something else.)

The comparison to Dear Leader is a bit of a stretch, though.

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sfallmann
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
I have to admit that it must be really creepy to have a popular president you dislike. The T-shirts with Bush's face on them didn't sell so well.

It's funny that you still think he's so popular. Bush was more popular at this point in his presidency.
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TomDavidson
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It depends, of course, on how you define "popularity."

But it doesn't matter what I think; all I was talking about was T-shirt sales. Gina's the one afraid of having Obama's face plastered everywhere.

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JoshCrow
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I'm starting to think that if Obama came out in support of "puppies and happiness", G2 and Gina would call him out over it. I don't think there's anything Obama could do that wouldn't draw their fire. I've been openly critical of certain decisions Obama has made, but I have not once heard G2 greet an Obama decision with anything but scorn. It would really mix things up a bit if, just once in a while, they said something nice just to throw us all off.
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sfallmann
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I would like to see his speech prior to this school event. It would be a good idea to address concerns some people have over this.

I would like to know in what context my kid would be expected to be helping Obama.

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Pyrtolin
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Isn't it standard form for Presidents to visit schools and talk to the kids? Heck wasn't there a bit of scuffle about Bush reading to kids durning 9/11? (Since there wasn't a heck of a lot he could do that his staff couldn't do as well in the situation, I don't think it all that out of place that he decided to try to avoid raising a panic, really)

The only difference here is that Obama is much more technophilic and is choosing to talk to every school at once rather than just picking one or two for a special visit.

The use of technology is unprecedented, not the actual part about talking to kids in school; that's old hat.

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sfallmann
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A president going to a school for a photo op and reading a story is harmless. If he did that, no one would give a rat's ass.

It's another thing for him to give a speech to all kids and have a call to service and have school work based on that speech.

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kenmeer livermaile
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"No, I mean that the man obviously can't get enough of hearing his own voice and seeing his image flickering across TV screens."

Are we discussing politics or engaging in cult of personality high school clique gossip? If Obama were a member of Ornery, you would have been so repeatedly guilty of motive inference ol' hobbs would've had to put you in the thou shalt not corner.

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Lina Inverse
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quote:
Originally posted by sfallmann:
It's funny that you still think he's so popular. Bush was more popular at this point in his presidency.

It is impossible for two presidents to be popular.
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kenmeer livermaile
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Meanwhile, we're still yakking about inconsequential horseshyte.

I got it! GIna and G2 are Obama plants! Their mission is to distract us from REAL problems in the adminstration with useless jive!

Wow... I just realized: Beck and Hannity and Limbaugh and Coulter and on and on are ALL parts of Dear Leader's master plan! Keep the silly people busy debating meaningless bat guano while Herrbama imposes mandatory sex changes and other socialist evils on America!

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kenmeer livermaile
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"I'm starting to think that if Obama came out in support of "puppies and happiness", G2 and Gina would call him out over it. "

Well, you know what a bad thing it was for the Clenis to go to NK and negotiate the release of American hostages. Imagine how bad it must be for Obama to encourage USA schoolkids to strive to learn.

The horror!

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kenmeer livermaile
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"A president going to a school for a photo op and reading a story is harmless. If he did that, no one would give a rat's ass.

It's another thing for him to give a speech to all kids and have a call to service and have school work based on that speech. "

Wow. You grasp distinction. Impressive.

Now, I urge you and ALL schoolkids to work on grasping the concept of 'significant' vs. 'meaningless'.

I know you can do it, kids, because I am the Magic Negro president, Jesus Obama Happy Hope'n'Change Breakfast Cereal!

[ September 02, 2009, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: kenmeer livermaile ]

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Gina
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My main objection is this: Children in a public school setting, where they are expected to appear and be attentive, are a captive audience. You should not exploit that captive audience for political purposes.

You can't tell me that's not what Obama is doing. He's the biggest political animal I've seen in that office, and that is saying something, since I lived through the Clinton years. I don't expect him to come out with an overtly partisan message; he's too subtle for that. As I said upthread, he will rely on his personal brand to carry the message.

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DonaldD
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Right. We get it. It is bad because Obama is doing it. Trust me, we hear you.
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Lina Inverse
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What sort of subtle partisan message are you expecting him to express, within the context of this speech?
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TomDavidson
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quote:
You should not exploit that captive audience for political purposes.
If we accept that this is the problem, then why did you not object to previous presidents' decisions to read to schoolchildren in class?
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kenmeer livermaile
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"You can't tell me that's not what Obama is doing."

Ladies and gennulmenz, I rest my case. One can't hold rational exchanges of perceived meaning with someone who holds their hands over their ears.

You're free, Gina.

[ September 02, 2009, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: kenmeer livermaile ]

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G2
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quote:
Originally posted by JoshCrow:
I'm starting to think that if Obama came out in support of "puppies and happiness", G2 and Gina would call him out over it. I don't think there's anything Obama could do that wouldn't draw their fire. I've been openly critical of certain decisions Obama has made, but I have not once heard G2 greet an Obama decision with anything but scorn. It would really mix things up a bit if, just once in a while, they said something nice just to throw us all off.

Probably should be another thread ... but what could it be he's done so well? He has staggered from one failure to another. The non-stimulus stimulus has been a failure along with minimal, if any, success in any other domestic policy and all his other domestic plans not implemented are on permanent hold or life support. The healthcare plan was his "Waterloo" and it's not looking so good for him right now. He is driving the country to the brink of financial ruin with the second greatest increase in debt in history that, unlike the 1st, will not be scaled back.

Foreign policy-wise, he's becoming the object of ridicule and scorn. He's losing the war in Afghanistan and there's growing talk of simply surrendering the battlefield there. Iran refuses to "unclench it's fist" and engage in dialog, Iraq is losing it's momentum and failing. North Korea has nukes with no penalty.

If you think I'm wrong, look at his polling data. His polling numbers have fallen faster than any president's since polling began. Obviously most Americans see it the way I do as far as his successes and his plans for the country.

Obama is about only two things: first and foremost, Obama. Second, a radical left wing agenda. He is not and will not be a centrist unless he thinks it will help him personally (see the sell out of the public option). Consequently there is very little he will come out with I can support. I'm happy to see him go into self-preservation mode and furiously try to back out on the public option he was so intent on getting. That's a good thing. Now if he'll drop the rest of it and can find a way to force Congress to do the same, I'll say something nice but I'm guessing that's not the kind of nice you want.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
Obviously most Americans see it the way I do as far as his successes and his plans for the country.
Just to clarify: is it now your opinion that most Americans should be trusted? That, for example, when most Americans insisted that George Bush was doing a terrible job and you insisted otherwise, you were wrong?

-------

quote:
Second, a radical left wing agenda.
Okay, this I'm not seeing. What policy -- even suggested policy -- of Obama's would you consider "radically left wing?" Can you name one?

[ September 02, 2009, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]

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