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Author Topic: Recruiting the children
kenmeer livermaile
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Nope. Not mandatory:

"On September 8, 2009, history will be made. Will you be a part of it?

"At 12:00 p.m., Eastern Time (ET), President Barack Obama will deliver a national address to the students of America. (Please note that this is a change from the originally scheduled time.) During this special address, the president will speak directly to the nation’s children and youth about persisting and succeeding in school. The president will challenge students to work hard, set educational goals, and take responsibility for their learning.

"The U.S. Department of Education encourages students of all ages, teachers, and administrators to participate in this historic moment by watching the president deliver the address, which will be broadcast..."

Next case.

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kmbboots
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
No President has ever demanded the attention of the entire public school population.
I dunno. When my brother was in high school, George Bush the elder gave speeches over Channel One, the old TV "news" boondoggle almost every school in the country had.


He should count his blessings. I had my childhood tainted by Nixon.

[ September 02, 2009, 07:23 PM: Message edited by: kmbboots ]

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Lina Inverse
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quote:
Originally posted by Gina:
Who has ever demanded the attention of every public school child in America for 20 minutes?

We simply haven't had the technology and infrastructure to do it until fairly recently. I don't think there's anything inherently bad about the President talking to children, anyway; it's good to make them feel included in the conversation, whether they agree or disagree with what he says.

quote:
Which President has centered so much of his foreign policy around his own personal magnetism?
I don't know what you're referring to here. Are you saying this because foreign nations generally regard him better than Bush? Again, I don't really see how that's inherently bad; I wouldn't say it was bad if their parties were reversed, either. And AFAICT a lot of governments prefer Obama's foreign policy to Bush's; I don't really think there's enough personal magnetism in the world to get them to go against their own interests.

quote:
What speech of Barack Obama is not full of me-me-me?
No moreso than other politicians, as far as I can tell. All of them are raging egomaniacs on some level.
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Gina
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I conclude that TomDavidson (edit: and JoshCrow) is suffering from the same delusion that Obama does: Thinking his far left ideology actually IS moderate. He (Obama) has been so cocooned in leftist academia and politica that he simply doesn't know that he doesn't know, as his cluelessness about "bitter clingers" and their concerns shows.

The description I read today is that of a fish asking another fish, "what's this water that everyone keeps talking about?"

I really don't know what Obama would have to do to prove himself a leftist to you. I hope I never get to see it.

[ September 02, 2009, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: Gina ]

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Gina
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
That list was G2's. They're almost certainly not the same person.

?? I gave you a list.

Are y'all still laboring under the suspicion that G2 and I are the same person and/or related? Good night. You'd think you'd never come across a conservative before.

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Gina
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quote:
Originally posted by Lina Inverse:
quote:
Originally posted by Gina:
Who has ever demanded the attention of every public school child in America for 20 minutes?

We simply haven't had the technology and infrastructure to do it until fairly recently.


Schools have had TV's, haven't they? Obama certainly isn't shy about demanding air time. If he wanted, he could have his speech broadcast.

quote:
I don't know what you're referring to here. Are you saying this because foreign nations generally regard him better than Bush?
No, because Obama and his advisors have claimed since the campaign that our international relations are going to change just because of who Obama is. I can find you some quotes later. This ignores basic realities about the world, besides being narcissistic and naive.

[ September 02, 2009, 08:41 PM: Message edited by: Gina ]

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TomDavidson
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quote:
I gave you a list.
Yes, I see that now. I'm sorry. I had actually asked G2 for even a single example of a leftist policy, not expecting that you -- as someone who is not G2 -- would answer for him. I even "corrected" someone about that, for which I apologize.

quote:
The description I read today is that of a fish asking another fish, "what's this water that everyone keeps talking about?"
Someday, Gina, you will travel to another country. And your mind will be blown. [Smile] Seriously, this is probably the only developed country in the world where someone could call Obama a "leftist" without being laughed off the stage. I'm pretty sure Chavez -- just as an example -- would disagree. So, most likely, would the Swedes.
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Lina Inverse
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quote:
Originally posted by Gina:


Schools have had TV's, haven't they? Obama certainly isn't shy about demanding air time. If he wanted, he could have his speech broadcast.

TVs that videos could be played on, yes. TVs with antennas for broadcast? For every classroom, or else a big screen in the gym that could get broadcasts? Not so sure about that.

quote:
No, because Obama and his advisors have claimed since the campaign that our international relations are going to change just because of who Obama is. I can find you some quotes later. This ignores basic realities about the world, besides being narcissistic and naive.
I'll have to wait on the quotes, then.

[ September 02, 2009, 09:19 PM: Message edited by: Lina Inverse ]

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Gina
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
Someday, Gina, you will travel to another country. And your mind will be blown. [Smile] Seriously, this is probably the only developed country in the world where someone could call Obama a "leftist" without being laughed off the stage. I'm pretty sure Chavez -- just as an example -- would disagree. So, most likely, would the Swedes.

I've traveled all over the world and lived in two different countries for a total of 6 years. (I also have a degree in international affairs and work for an international company, have done training in cross-cultural adaptation, etc.) Typical that you would assume I hadn't been off the farm.

Chavez?! Even Chavez and Castro seem to be surprised by Obama. LOL

Edit: Oh, and Tom, my European managers are both no fans of Obama, and definitely consider him a leftist. Next time you decide to take an ignorant conservative to school, try a different ignorant conservative.

[ September 02, 2009, 10:13 PM: Message edited by: Gina ]

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kenmeer livermaile
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(popmpous law school professor voice) Tom D, never ask a question you don't know the answer too, right?

And don't proceed in ignorance on an assumption about another, even if you're only doing to for rhetorical effect.

People think the way they do because they think the way they do, and that's that.

[ September 02, 2009, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: kenmeer livermaile ]

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TomDavidson
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quote:
I've traveled all over the world and lived in two different countries for a total of 6 years.
I'm actually aware of this; you've mentioned this a couple times when it's been necessary for you to assert your cosmopolitan credentials. That was the reason for the smiley, in fact. I was trying to point out that you would be hard-pressed to compare Obama's policies to the policies of any other developed country on Earth and conclude that they're leftist by comparison. Obama's considerably less socialist than the leadership of Israel, for God's sake, and that's not a country I'd hold up as an exemplar of the left wing.

quote:
Even Chavez and Castro seem to be surprised by Obama.
Heh. You mean you fell for that one, too?

The sad thing about this, Gina, is that I'm pretty sure I can tell you what media outlets you're reading/watching just based on how you reply. [Smile]

[ September 02, 2009, 10:21 PM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]

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threads
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quote:
Originally posted by Gina:
Chavez?! Even Chavez and Castro seem to be surprised by Obama. LOL

Surprised about what specifically?
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kmbboots
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I don't recall outrage about this:

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/09/13/us/bush-urges-youngsters-to-help-friends-on-drugs.html

Did I miss it?

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kenmeer livermaile
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Don't bother her w/specifics, threads.
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kenmeer livermaile
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"That was the reason for the smiley, in fact. "

(pompous law professor bangs head on desk, realizing yet again the reason he teaches law is that he sucks as an attorney)

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kenmeer livermaile
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But, for the record, while Israel today has been dominated by fairly rightist administrations, it did arise from decidedly socialist roots. FWIW

You know me, fair and balanced like a fox.

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Gina
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
Heh. You mean you fell for that one, too?

The sad thing about this, Gina, is that I'm pretty sure I can tell you what media outlets you're reading/watching just based on how you reply. [Smile]

Ah, you're just playing dumb games. My mistake.

So tell me: What am I reading and watching? I'm breathless.

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kenmeer livermaile
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We know you is but what am us?
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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by Gina:
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
Heh. You mean you fell for that one, too?

The sad thing about this, Gina, is that I'm pretty sure I can tell you what media outlets you're reading/watching just based on how you reply. [Smile]

Ah, you're just playing dumb games. My mistake.

So tell me: What am I reading and watching? I'm breathless.

You got the sketch backwards. He's supposed to say "Glenn Beck", then you pull that question out of the envelope.
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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by threads:
quote:
Originally posted by Gina:
Chavez?! Even Chavez and Castro seem to be surprised by Obama. LOL

Surprised about what specifically?
How much he tries to rely on capitalism and private business for such a radical, I suppose.
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TomDavidson
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quote:
while Israel today has been dominated by fairly rightist administrations, it did arise from decidedly socialist roots
Oh, no argument there. The salient point, however, is that it's very difficult to come up with a modern nation led by someone less socialist than Obama. I won't say it's impossible, because I can't even name all the nations of the world anymore. But I'd be surprised if G* could do it. [Smile]
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Gina
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
The salient point, however, is that it's very difficult to come up with a modern nation led by someone less socialist than Obama.

I've really had it with talking to you, but to belabor just a bit more- salient to what? For one thing, European and American politics really can't be compared. For another, saying that people in Europe would never find Obama to be a leftist is just dumb. They certainly do, if they know anything about American politics at all (as opposed to the spin that many of them imbibe because their political news is filtered through American wire services). Merkel even resisted Obama's Keynesian "solution" to the market collapse, and has been proved wise in doing so.

But of course, it wasn't Keynesian enough for a nutty NYT columnist, so that proves Obama is really a Republican in disguise.

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kenmeer livermaile
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I agree, Tom. It eerily reminds me of Germany, which went from being a vanguard of liberalism to the 3rd Reich.

Obama is a hard-core technocrat, methinks.

[ September 02, 2009, 11:57 PM: Message edited by: kenmeer livermaile ]

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kenmeer livermaile
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"I've really had it with talking to you"

But Tom, will she stay true? (walks away whistling So Early In the Spring)

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kenmeer livermaile
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This Merkel?

quote:
Following major falls in worldwide stockmarkets in September 2008, the German government stepped in to assist the Mortgage company Hypo Real Estate with a bailout which was agreed on October 6, with German banks to contribute €30 billion and the Bundesbank €20 billion to a credit line.[20]

On Saturday October 4, following the Irish Government's decision to guarantee all deposits in private savings accounts, a move she strongly criticized,[21] Merkel said there were no plans for the German Government to do the same. The following day, Merkel stated that the government would guarantee private savings account deposits after all. [22] However, it emerged on October 6 that the pledge was a political move and would not be backed by legislation.[23] This confusion led to major falls in worldwide stockmarkets with the FTSE 100 and DAX stock exchanges falling 6% at one point. Other European governments eventually either raised the limits or promised to guarantee savings in full.[23]


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TomDavidson
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quote:
For one thing, European and American politics really can't be compared.
And yet they're compared all the time. Heck, calling someone a socialist without referring to European politics is almost nonsensical. I mean, what other yardstick is there to use?

(I love the idea, by the way, that Paul Krugman is a nutty columnist whose opinions on Keynesian economics are to be summarily dismissed, but Glenn Beck is considered a valid source.)

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kenmeer livermaile
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I'm also scratching my head for reasons to believe that Germany is in any better shape than other nations. What I read echoes the American position: slight upturn in some factors but still rising unemployment and emerging deflation.

Can someone clue us into why Germany is better?

You know how I hate relying on those nutty NYT columnists.

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kmbboots
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Particularly those Nobel laureate nutty NYT columnists.

Gina, nothing to say about President Bush addressing school children? As I recall (and I barely do as there was surprisingly little hysteria considering that presidents who talk to schoolchildren are clearly eeeeevil) the worst people thought was that the message was a tad simplistic.

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TomDavidson
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To be fair, Kate, a few of the more partisan Democrats at the time complained that it amounted to self-promotion, and a bunch of Republicans stepped forward to defend the practice.
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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by kenmeer livermaile:
I'm also scratching my head for reasons to believe that Germany is in any better shape than other nations. What I read echoes the American position: slight upturn in some factors but still rising unemployment and emerging deflation.

Can someone clue us into why Germany is better?

Recession is measured in terms of GDP, so they've managed to to get that rising again somehow. If not thorough increased business spending and exports, then it must be through increased consumer or government spending.
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G2
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Obama is apparently backing up on this:
quote:
The Obama administration is rethinking its course recommendations for students ahead of President Obama's address to the the nation's schoolchildren next week, rewriting its suggestions to teachers for student assignments on how to "help the president,"

The Washington Times reported Thursday that presidential aides acknowledged they helped the U.S. Education Department write the suggested assignments, which stirred criticism by many who say Obama is trying to indoctrinate the education system.

White House aides said the language was supposed to be a inspirational, pro-education message to America's youths, but its unintended consequences were evident.

Among the activities initially suggested for pre-K to 6th grade students was to "write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president."

Another assignment for students after hearing the speech was to discuss what "the president wants us to do."

So Obama's aids came up with the assignments and, once caught, recognized the unintended consequences that were so evident to everyone else. Heh, all of you that defended this just got tossed under the bus.

You think they just weren't aware of the consequences? Nah, they're not stupid people. They know what they're doing. They just got exposed and are now backpedaling. Really makes you wonder what they'll come up with now ...

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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by G2:
So Obama's aids came up with the assignments and, once caught, recognized the unintended consequences that were so evident to everyone else. Heh, all of you that defended this just got tossed under the bus.

All of who? The educational aides were mostly left out of the discussion here hafter the initial mention.

I think this is a silly move by the administration, if they're actually backing down on good educational technique due to rampant paranoia and cutting out supplimental material that will help kids internalize the message rather than just making it into a 20 minute break from class.

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Lobo
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Life was so much better when the only thing piped into schools was "Electric Company". All I ever needed to know I learned from Spider Man...
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kenmeer livermaile
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"If not thorough increased business spending and exports, then it must be through increased consumer or government spending. "

What I read said it was guv stimulus and increased corporate spending to rebuild inventory.

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kenmeer livermaile
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"Among the activities initially suggested for pre-K to 6th grade students was to "write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president."

God forbid people try to assist the leader of their nation. This isn't exactly a presidential election season. It's not like they're going to brainstorm how Obama should achieve reelection. They're supposed to ponder how making an effort in school academics and extracurricular activities aimed at community service (the horror! the horror!) would assist the president in elevating basic community concerns that affect us all.

"Another assignment for students after hearing the speech was to discuss what "the president wants us to do."

Well, y'know, it will be that guy, um, you know, the president, who will be delivering the speech and exhorting the kids. Should we have them discuss what Barney wants them to do?

This is more classically false and deliberately misleading drivel from the people who brought you death panels, Obama wants to get whitey, and the curious notion that Sarah Palin is a meaningful political figure.

Carry on, droolheads. The braingoo looks kinda pretty as it dries in the late summer sunlight.

Come fall, we'll give you a teapot to pee your tempests into.

[ September 03, 2009, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: kenmeer livermaile ]

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TomDavidson
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quote:
if they're actually backing down on good educational technique due to rampant paranoia and cutting out supplimental material that will help kids internalize the message rather than just making it into a 20 minute break from class
Of course they are. Obama has demonstrated nothing if not a willingness to compromise on behalf of the crazy people.
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G2
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quote:
Originally posted by Pyrtolin:
I think this is a silly move by the administration, if they're actually backing down on good educational technique due to rampant paranoia and cutting out supplimental material that will help kids internalize the message rather than just making it into a 20 minute break from class.

That's the problem, is wasn't "good educational technique" and it was not just rampant paranoia. Team Obama is backpedaling fast because they know it was not "good educational technique".
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TomDavidson
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G2, two questions:

1) What exactly were the aids involved?
2) Which ones do you not think constituted good educational technique, and why?

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G2
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
G2, two questions:

1) What exactly were the aids involved?
2) Which ones do you not think constituted good educational technique, and why?

[Roll Eyes]
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TomDavidson
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I would say that these are perfectly legitimate questions. You have reached a conclusion about the quality of these educational aids. Presumably you are qualified to evaluate their educational value. Not having seen them myself, I do not feel as qualified.

I would like to know what, specifically, is wrong with them.

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