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Author Topic: The Speech
G2
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Tonight The One lays it out. From one of my favorite blogs I learned tonight that according to CBS News's Mark Knoller this will be the 29th speech Obama has made devoted exclusively to health care. 29, jesus. Speeches where Obama simply addresses it: 121. So what will we hear tonight that different from all those other times? What will be new? The leaked stuff so far is ... nothing new. If he demands the public option be in the bill (very long shot) then maybe we have something here otherwise this is going to be just another simple retread of the previous 28 speeches anyone with an interest in this has already heard.

Who's he trying to convince? Congress? They aren't going to move much based on yet another speech. The public? Save it Barry, they either heard it the first 28 times or they're not interested - the premier of "So You Think You Can Dance" is on in the same time slot, you ain't got a chance with the American public watching you repeat the same tired falsities. As one commenter on MSNBC said:
quote:
Old Obama: "Magical health care ponies for all!"

New Obama "By God, there WILL be magical healthcare ponies for all!"

Since we can be as nearly certain as we can be that there won't be anything new, what's the point here? Who's left to impress?

How about the media? Yeah, that sounds about right. We already know the MSM will give rave reviews about the brilliance of Obama's reading of the teleprompter. They will go on and on about the delivery, the magic of the moment, the way he honors the memory of Kennedy (watch for it, no way he can pass this up), his great oratory skills are known fact™ - sure, but can anyone recall anything he said beyond "Let me be perfectly clear ..."? Obama could belch the alphabet and it wouldn't change the MSM's review of it, those reviews are probably already written. But if he can get them all fired up, get Matthews' leg tingling again and drive the MSM into a full blown O-gasm that lasts a few days, then maybe, just maybe he can get this thing back.

You know, he probably will get a post speech bump as the MSM goes all tingly and maybe then he will strike while the tingles keep everyone distracted and get Pelosi and Reid to hold that vote and try a hail mary to ram it through. Within 3 or 4 days max, people will see through the fawning media once again and he'll be right back where he was after the first 28 speeches. So is this the hail mary speech?

[ September 09, 2009, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: G2 ]

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Michelle
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G2, take your meds.
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G2
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quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
G2, take your meds.

LOL, so what do you think it's about then? Who is the target audience? Mindless personal shots are cheap, dime a dozen around here. Why don't you try to stand out from the crowd a bit, see if you actually got something to say?
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G2
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Just to highlight the retreading:
quote:

First, no matter what you've heard, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor under the reform proposals that we've put forward. If you like your private health insurance plan, you can keep it. If your employer provides you health insurance on the job, nobody is talking about messing with that.

quote:
First, if you are among the hundreds of millions of Americans who already have health insurance through your job, Medicare, Medicaid, or the VA, nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have. Let me repeat this: nothing in our plan requires you to change what you have.
Which one is from his speech on Aug 20th and which one is from the released excerpts for tonight? LOL, does it matter?

[ September 09, 2009, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: G2 ]

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RickyB
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G2, when Michelle, far from an Obama worshiper, tells you to take your meds... the red ones, not the yellow ones.
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G2
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Reading the excerpts are hysterical, Obama bemoans:
quote:
Instead of honest debate, we have seen scare tactics.
Soon after which Obama will say:
quote:
Everyone in this room knows what will happen if we do nothing. Our deficit will grow. More families will go bankrupt. More businesses will close. More Americans will lose their coverage when they are sick and need it most. And more will die as a result. We know these things to be true.
The scare tactics are deplorable so vote for my plan or people will die!!!! LOL, you think anyone read this thing before publication?

[ September 09, 2009, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: G2 ]

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kenmeer livermaile
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Yup. Most of them had their eyes open, though.
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Michelle
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quote:
Originally posted by G2:
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
G2, take your meds.

LOL, so what do you think it's about then? Who is the target audience? Mindless personal shots are cheap, dime a dozen around here. Why don't you try to stand out from the crowd a bit, see if you actually got something to say?
Well that's just it, G2. I actually haven't be battered into avoidance of you yet, so I risk reading the thread. Unfortunately, your spiel was confuddling me brainacles.

What is the point of the speech? Isn't that a question best ask after hearing it? [Confused]

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G2
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quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
Well that's just it, G2. I actually haven't be battered into avoidance of you yet, so I risk reading the thread.

You can't last much longer, the truth is a brutal cudgel and you will be battered with it before long.
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
Unfortunately, your spiel was confuddling me brainacles.

Should I use those words like "Quel"?

quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
What is the point of the speech? Isn't that a question best ask after hearing it? [Confused]

If you don't know already, then you prove my point. If the first 28 didn't work, what is the point?
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cherrypoptart
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They keep thinking the problem is that the salesman hasn't been slick enough when the real reason people aren't buying it is because the product sucks.

It doesn't matter how smooth the pitch is when he's trying to sell a pile of poop.

That's what the Democrats insist on refusing to understand.

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kenmeer livermaile
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If I were to define conservatism based on Ornery's more outspokenly self-avowed conservatives, I would conclude that conservatism meant "thinks he can read other's minds".

Maybe that's why the current Republican party is faring so badly. Mentalism as a political philosophy can only go so far before it's seen as self-delusion.

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kenmeer livermaile
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Hey! User-friendly data!
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philnotfil
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I just wish they would quit clapping and let him give the speech. (same for the state of the union)
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kenmeer livermaile
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I just wait for the text.
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0rnery
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"Not add one dime to the deficit..."

Why does that sound familiar? Oh yeah, "I can make a firm pledge," he said in Dover, N.H., on Sept. 12. "Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes. You will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime." (I need a cigarette...)

Only way that can happen, is to force people to buy policy's they don't want, and tax the bejesus out of the people who create jobs, to pay for the ones who can't afford it.

Oh, and how many of those 47 million uninsured are illegals? Good luck getting them to pay their share.

[ September 09, 2009, 09:23 PM: Message edited by: 0rnery ]

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Lina Inverse
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Public option is still on! \o/
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kenmeer livermaile
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Ornery, don't worry: there's no plan to insure red herrings.

[ September 09, 2009, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: kenmeer livermaile ]

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0rnery
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Obama Healthcare Misinformation: 47 Million “Americans” Uninsured, Illegal Immigrants and Healthcare Coverage

The “47 million” figure originated from a survey done by the Census Bureau, The Income, Poverty, and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2006.

What you won’t find in the survey: words or terms such as “illegal immigrant”. Instead, illegal immigrants are referred to as “foreign born households maintained by a person who was “not a citizen”.

According to the National Coalition on Healthcare, or HCHC, there are 46 million uninsured, where the “large majority”, or 80%, are native, or naturalized citizens. This means that 20%, or 9.2 million of “Americans” are non-native or non-naturalized, or in simpler terms: illegal immigrants.


More than a quarter of the uninsured are foreign-born. By Census Bureau estimates, about 10 million uninsured are not citizens and half of them are illegal immigrants.

[ September 09, 2009, 10:24 PM: Message edited by: 0rnery ]

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kenmeer livermaile
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Get thee to a town hall, Ornery.
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Lina Inverse
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I know many foreign-born people who are not citizens and maintain households in the US. All of them have legal visas to work or attend college here, and they all pay US taxes.
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0rnery
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Nevermind, the transcript shows Obama dropped it from 47million, to 30 million:

There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage.

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Funean
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But seriously, "non-native, non-naturalized" does not equal "illegal immigrant." Is this what's being bandied about on talk radio? That these terms are synonymous?

Work visas, student visas, married-to-a-citizen, waiting to become a citizen....lots of folks here legally, and paying taxes just like citizens do.

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MattP
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Yep. I have a British coworker that's been here now for something like 15 years. Pays taxes, takes his kids to little league, etc. The only clue that he might not be a citizen is the lingering English accent. I've worked with several people like this over the past decade or so. It's pretty common in my industry.
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The Drake
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The following is the letter that I have written to my representatives in Washington.

quote:
After hearing President Obama's speech tonight, and after many months of deliberation, I have come to the conclusion that health care reform cannot wait. Too many of my friends and family are having difficulties under our current system. The free market has failed us, and we are simply paying far too much to serve the uninsured in our overburdened emergency rooms. We need to embrace this change now. I understand that many of your colleagues in the Senate are concerned that this will be a costly program, but I think that it is clear that it costs more not to act. I urge you to help craft a policy with your fellow legislators that aligns with the President's vision. You have an opportunity to make a remarkable positive change for our fellow Americans. I hope that you will embrace it and relieve the suffering of our citizens. We need your help.
I thought the speech and the proposed policy were remarkable, and it left me with no option than to voice my support.
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Greg Davidson
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For those who favored the speech, call your Senators and provide your support. For those who opposed, do the same.
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MattP
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Can't I just bitch on Facebook?
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hobsen
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Since I was away from home, I missed the beginning of this. But the following is a link to a transcript of Obama's speech provided by CBS News:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/09/politics/main5299229.shtml

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hobsen
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Rep. Charles Boustany's Republican Response

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/HealthCare/charles-boustany-republican-rebuttal-obama-health-care-speech/story?id=8527214

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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by cherrypoptart:
They keep thinking the problem is that the salesman hasn't been slick enough when the real reason people aren't buying it is because the product sucks.

It doesn't matter how smooth the pitch is when he's trying to sell a pile of poop.

That's what the Democrats insist on refusing to understand.

Just the opposite- most people never bothered to look at the product because they've been convinced that the salesman is bad.

When shown the product absent him, they think it's just dandy.

The speech was directed at the Blue Dogs and the undecided moderates, not really at the people who are completely lost to Big Lie politics. And the initial reactions seem to indicate that it reached them pretty well. We'll see where the polls go, but all he really needed to do was get enough Blue Dogs confident enough in support from their voters that they'll vote in favor of one of the proposals on the table.

Since the Senate is one short for the near future, I wouldn't be surprised at this point if the final details end up being hashed out in the reconciliation process.

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The Drake
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I'm not a Democrat, cherry, so why don't you tell me why I should hastily retract my support? What element of the plan laid out do you disagree with?

What's so "poopy" about the framework that the President described? Share your insight.

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DonaldD
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What immediately struck me about Boustany's response was that the first substantive criticism of Obama's proposal was the following
quote:
Replacing your family's current health care with government-run health care is not the answer
It's as if he heard the speech, then decided to simply ignore its content and talk about something else.
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kmbboots
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Who is talking about "replacing"?
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MattP
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I think they are counting on the fact that people often just listen to "their guy" in this sort of thing. A lot of Democrats will listen to just Obama and not care at all about what the opposition's response is and a lot of Republicans are going to just listen to the response and glean Obamas position from that.

Knowing that there is the potential for this sort of non-critical analysis, it makes some political sense to present a caricature of the other guy's position rather than his actual position. If you're called on it you can always argue later that you're just pointing out that what you were really presenting were the natural conclusions of the other guy's position. It's a slick slide to the slippery slope.

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cherrypoptart
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I've listened to Newt on many occassions now and I like his incremental approach a lot better than the comprehensive one Obama proposes.

This all or nothing gamble seems like a gambit to throw a lot of money at a problem with no real idea if it's going to make things better or worse overall.

An incremental approach, breaking up healthcare reform into managable bits and pieces would more easily allow us to see what works and what doesn't, and have better control over the effects of healthcare reform.

Allowing insurance plans across state lines to promote competition, co-ops to help buyers take advantage of the the better purchasing power that comes in numbers, and a lot of other ideas could be tried before this complete government takeover.

Yes, I realize that Democrats say there won't be a government takeover, but that's just unbelievable. When you look at the details, a lot of what is described as myth is actually very possible with the language they've used.

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Pyrtolin
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What complete government takeover? What details? Is is a "complete takeover" when a large company uses its pool of employees as a single risk pool to offer consistent rates and guaranteed coverage?

There's no gamble here. Every major company has used this system for years. This is about as old hat as you can get.

How can you, in the same sentence advocate allowing cross state competition and co-ops, the proposals for which are strictly regional?

"Incremental" means "small pieces that we can independently filibuster while still pretending to support reform". It's just a way to try to candy coat their obstructionism by pretending to compromise.

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cherrypoptart
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I'm thinking incremental means small pieces that we can keep a close eye on to help prevent waste, fraud, and abuse.

I couldn't help but notice that the massiveness of the stimulus made it quite easy to have billions siphoned off to constituents with no one the wiser.

Obama keeps talking about all the money we're going to save by getting rid of waste, fraud, and abuse. So what's stopping him?

Make that happen first, then he'd have some credibility to ask for more government control and more of our tax dollars.

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DonaldD
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quote:
Yes, I realize that Democrats say there won't be a government takeover, but that's just unbelievable. When you look at the details, a lot of what is described as myth is actually very possible with the language they've used.
Which details? Is this the language you were talking about?
quote:
Madam Speaker, Vice President Biden, members of Congress, and the American people:

As any American ... I ... seek ... our .. decisive ... and ... collective failure, year after year, decade after decade, everyone ... on welfare.

Since health care represents one-sixth of our economy, I believe it makes more sense to build ... an entirely new system from scratch. (Applause.) And that is precisely what those of you in Congress have tried to do over the past several months.

Here are the details that every American needs to know about this plan. First, if you are among the hundreds of millions of Americans who already have health insurance through your job, or Medicare, or Medicaid, or the VA ... this plan will require you or your employer to change the doctor you have. (Applause.) Let me repeat this: ...our plan requires you to change what you have.


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Greg Davidson
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quote:
Yes, I realize that Democrats say there won't be a government takeover, but that's just unbelievable.
If you are incapable of holding any belief other than Democrats innately must perform a government take-over, then you are taking on faith what you wish to persuade us. What is the basis of your faith?


quote:
I couldn't help but notice that the massiveness of the stimulus made it quite easy to have billions siphoned off to constituents with no one the wiser.
In truth, it is hard to eliminate all corruption just like it is hard to get rid of all cockroaches. But what specifically did you notice? By the phrase "siphon" I presume that you mean an inappropriate transfer, otherwise it is quite unremarkable that stimulus funds went to constituents (can you imagine how odd it would be to have a stimulus package than mandated that the funds could not go to American citizens?).
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The Drake
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Back when Newt was actually relevant to national politics, a piecemeal incremental approach might have been tried. It is far too late in the day. The American people can no longer suffer as health insurance companies fail to live up to the most basic ethical standards.

People with pre-existing conditions must not be handed a choice between bankruptcy and the grave.

People must not be left to die because they didn't mention a visit to the doctor for acne medication.

The insurance companies had their chance to act responsibly, and they failed that test miserably. I am almost always a small government guy. I *heart* Ron Paul. But this time, I disagree with him.

Regarding the public option, Obama made an outstanding point. State universities are subsidized by tax dollars, but Harvard and MIT haven't exactly bit the dust because of competition from the University of Massachusetts. The US postal service hasn't exactly wiped out FedEx and UPS, either.

My message to the health insurance companies - be excellent. Some politicians have compared the public option to the DMV. Should it be hard to provide better customer service than the DMV? Should it be hard to provide faster payment of claims than the SSA? I think it is crazy to claim that an INFERIOR PRODUCT would defeat you in the marketplace. Justify your price-point, Blue Cross. Or just go away.

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G2
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Well, there it was. It was indeed just a regurgitation of the previous 28 speeches with nothing but the same half truths and outright falsehoods. BTW, did I call it on the ode to Kennedy or what? [Wink]

Joe Wilson called him out on the illegal aliens lie, that was good. When the president is being blatantly dishonest he should be called out. For those that don't know or simply accept everything Obama says as true, let's break that one down. The legislation does say it will not fund illegal aliens *but* the legislation also prevents anyone from checking on the citizenship status of any person seeking healthcare. This is very artful deceit, Obama has it both ways here and you have to actually know what's going on in order to see that falsehood here.

Obama once again said he would not force the government option on anyone *but* the current bill provides a rather strong incentive for private employers to dump their employees onto the government plan and if an employee switches jobs, they must get on a government approved plan and then can never get off it. So as long as you stay with one employer not willing to dump you onto the government plan, Obama is telling the truth but that ruth has the standard Obama expiration date. As H.R. 3200 is currently written, the sale of insurance by private companies is outlawed by 2013. Again, another very artful lie.

Obama also claimed that this $900 billion plan will not add to the deficit and will be paid for it without tax increases. Here he's depending on you being too stupid and/or ideologically driven to understand. He says he can make up the cost by reforming health care. Why not try that out first Barry? If you know how to cut billions out of the costs, let's see the details on how you're going to do that. Unfortunately, there are no details:

quote:
That’s part of the President’s problem. He did not overcome his biggest obstacle last night, which is the common sense understanding of the American people. You cannot give better coverage to those who have insurance, put millions people more into the system, pay for it by ending waste and abuse, claim you will lower health care costs, create a government-run exchange, include government health care coverage and not spend a dime -- all at the same time. That’s a fairy tale.
On funding abortions:
quote:
He [Obama] said that the plan won’t fund abortions. But it will. In fact, the Democrats specifically cut out of the legislation clear language to prevent funding of abortions. Moreso, the Hyde Amendment, which Barack Obama hides behind, would not apply to this legislation because the Hyde Amendment only applies to Department of Health and Human Services appropriations and, get this, the Democrats have decided that healthcare expenditures will not be in the HHS budget. Therefore, abortions will be paid for.
Obama accused anyone opposed to the Democrat's plan of not offering any ideas of their own - simply untrue. Congressional Republicans have a comprehensive reform bill in committee and had copies of it in the chamber when Obama gave his speech. Several Republican members in the chamber held up the bills they’ve introduced while Obama said that. that was a downright stupid lie although he can count on it not being reported in the MSM so it's a calculated stupidity.

As Ed Morrissey says:
quote:
It [dragging Kennedy's cadaver out] did provide a fitting conclusion to an ugly, partisan, and completely counter-productive speech. Instead of offering something new, Obama dared those disaffected by ObamaCare to stop it. His only hope will be that people quickly forget it. Far from a reset, the speech sets the stage for even further disenchantment with this administration.

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