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Author Topic: Latest South Park show about censorship is censored
JWatts
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quote:
Originally posted by TommySama:
Killed one person, right?

In a word, No.

quote:
The Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy began after 12 editorial cartoons, most of which depicted the Islamic prophet Muhammad, were published in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten on 30 September 2005. The newspaper announced that this publication was an attempt to contribute to the debate regarding criticism of Islam and self-censorship.

Danish Muslim organizations, who objected to the depictions, responded by holding public protests attempting to raise awareness of Jyllands-Posten's publication. Further examples of the cartoons were soon reprinted in newspapers in more than 50 other countries, further deepening the controversy.

This led to protests across the Muslim world, some of which escalated into violence with police firing on the crowds (resulting in a total of more than 100 deaths), including setting fire to the Danish Embassies in Syria, Lebanon and Iran, storming European buildings, and desecrating the Danish, Dutch, Norwegian, French and German flags in Gaza City. Various groups, primarily in the Western world, responded by endorsing the Danish policies, including "Buy Danish" campaigns and other displays of support. Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen described the controversy as Denmark's worst international crisis since World War II.

Source
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RickyB
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"Do Muslim extremists have symbols to represent their lives?"

the crescent and star, the sword or swords (a famous verse popularized in the Showtime series "Sleeper Cell" states that "The Garden of Allah is in the shadow of the swords" - a reference to the story of Eden, actually), and calligraphic renderings of Quran verses. There may be other things as well.

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TommySama
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"In a word, No."

quote:
This led to protests across the Muslim world, some of which escalated into violence with police firing on the crowds (resulting in a total of more than 100 deaths), including setting fire to the Danish Embassies in Syria, Lebanon and Iran, storming European buildings, and desecrating the Danish, Dutch, Norwegian, French and German flags in Gaza City.
Okay so a handful of people claimed to have murdered in response to the cartoons, a couple failed assassination attempts, and the police were responsible for the vast majority of the remaining associated deaths surrounding these cartoons. Based on the rhetoric, I'd have expected at least 1/10,000 Muslims to go out and kill a Christian in response to this. But we're not even getting one revenge killing per 100,000,000 Muslims.
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JWatts
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quote:
Originally posted by RickyB:
"Do Muslim extremists have symbols to represent their lives?"

the crescent and star, the sword or swords (a famous verse popularized in the Showtime series "Sleeper Cell" states that "The Garden of Allah is in the shadow of the swords" - a reference to the story of Eden, actually), and calligraphic renderings of Quran verses. There may be other things as well.

Thanks, that was good info.
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Adam Lassek
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quote:
Pete said:
There's a lot of value in South Park, and utility even in some of the offensive mocking stuff, but what you describes sounds simply stupid, useless, masturbatory.

To the contrary, that scene was brilliant social commentary. Trey and Matt are making a clear statement in one succinct moment: they can show Buddha doing coke and Jesus watching Internet porn, but Buddhists and Christians won't make death threats against them. Simply showing Mohammad on-screen (in a bear costume!) is enough to get that reaction from Muslims. They're actually paying you a complement.
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Aris Katsaris
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One notices that it is in the specifically both imperialistic and anti-Western nations of Syria and Iran that the most noteworthy protests took place -- which indicates that, far from being impromptu Muslim anger at depictions of Mohammed, these protests were merely state-supported imperialist intimidation techniques by the specific nations.

If it was about supposed Muslim barbarism, you'd see similar levels of protests across muslim populations, from Nigeria to Indonesia to Saudi Arabia.

Even if it was about level of commitment to that belief, you'd still expect Saudi Arab or Nigerian protests to be bigger than Syrian ones, as SA and half of Nigeria follows Shariah law, and Syria doesn't.

Instead, the major protests happened not in the most fanatically Islamic of nations, but in the most imperialistic of such. Syria (ambitions against Lebanon and Israel) and Iran (ambitions against Iraq). And of course Hamas & Hezbollah which are genocidally imperialistic.

Which in turns indicates that actual muslims don't really care, except when instigated by their imperialistic governments.

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Pyrtolin
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Also, the basic rule about not depicting Mohammed isn't exactly hard and fast to begin with:
http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/islamic_mo_full/

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JWatts
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quote:
Originally posted by Aris Katsaris:
Which in turns indicates that actual muslims don't really care, except when instigated by their imperialistic governments.

That ignores the death threat against the South Park writers, which was posted on a New York based web site. Granted, the post could have been from Syria or Iran, but that's doubtful. It is a pretty specific threat with actual relevant details, including the house the writers rent.

quote:

The American broadcaster Comedy Central this week censored the programme after the episode's depiction of the Prophet Mohamed dressed as a giant teddy bear drew a warning on an Islamist website that the show's creators, Matt Stone and Trey Parker, would be murdered. The warning was posted on the New York-based website Revolution Muslim. In an article that suggested that Parker and Stone would "probably wind up like Theo Van Gogh for airing this show", a writer calling himself Abu Talhah al-Amrikee listed the addresses of Comedy Central's New York office as well as Stone and Parker's production office. He also posted a link to a piece giving details of the house that the two rent.

Source
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Aris Katsaris
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quote:
"That ignores the death threat against the South Park writers, which was posted on a New York based web site."
You can find isolated threats and lone terrorists anywhere about any issue. I'm talking about the mass protests that supposedly indicated Muslims as a whole (or most of them, or many of them) had a problem with this.
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JWatts
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quote:
Originally posted by Aris Katsaris:
quote:
"That ignores the death threat against the South Park writers, which was posted on a New York based web site."
You can find isolated threats and lone terrorists anywhere about any issue. I'm talking about the mass protests that supposedly indicated Muslims as a whole (or most of them, or many of them) had a problem with this.
To what point? The vast majority of people in general don't care about what happens in another country. It's the few that can behead an artist or drive planes into skyscrapers that matter.

The vast majority of Muslims weren't actively protesting the US presence in Saudi Arabia, but we still had 3K+ civilians killed and two of the tallest skyscrapers on the planet leveled in the heart of one of the biggest cities in the world.

If every Muslim in every other country in the world were peacefully protesting the South Park episode, it might have driven a lot of debate but Comedy Central wouldn't have censored it. It was the specific threat from New York that drove them to cower down and violate the shows creators' principles.

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Aris Katsaris
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It's your point I don't get. Are you saying that a few fanatics can cause a lot of damage and instill a lot of fear? If so, we are agree. I never disputed that.
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philnotfil
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The really funny thing about all of this is that Mohammed wasn't in the bear suit, it was Santa Claus.
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TommySama
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They also took the episode that played before 9/11 off of their website.
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by Adam Lassek:
quote:
Pete said:
There's a lot of value in South Park, and utility even in some of the offensive mocking stuff, but what you describes sounds simply stupid, useless, masturbatory.

To the contrary, that scene was brilliant social commentary. Trey and Matt are making a clear statement in one succinct moment: they can show Buddha doing coke and Jesus watching Internet porn, but Buddhists and Christians won't make death threats against them.
I said that it sounded stupid and masturbatory the way that it was previously described. The way you described it just now is quite different. Thank you for clarifying.
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by Aris Katsaris:
It's your point I don't get. Are you saying that a few fanatics can cause a lot of damage and instill a lot of fear? If so, we are agree. I never disputed that.

Aris, have you ever engaged conversation on a Muslim website? I was a little surprised at the prevalance of certain beliefs ... for example, many folks blame Salman Rushdie for the murders of his editors and translators.
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by TommySama:
Killed one person, right?

quote:
Originally posted by JWatts:
In a word, No.

quote:
The Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy began after 12 editorial cartoons, most of which depicted the Islamic prophet Muhammad, were published in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten on 30 September 2005. The newspaper announced that this publication was an attempt to contribute to the debate regarding criticism of Islam and self-censorship.

Danish Muslim organizations, who objected to the depictions, responded by holding public protests attempting to raise awareness of Jyllands-Posten's publication. Further examples of the cartoons were soon reprinted in newspapers in more than 50 other countries, further deepening the controversy.

This led to protests across the Muslim world, some of which escalated into violence with police firing on the crowds (resulting in a total of more than 100 deaths), including setting fire to the Danish Embassies in Syria, Lebanon and Iran, storming European buildings, and desecrating the Danish, Dutch, Norwegian, French and German flags in Gaza City. Various groups, primarily in the Western world, responded by endorsing the Danish policies, including "Buy Danish" campaigns and other displays of support. Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen described the controversy as Denmark's worst international crisis since World War II.

Source
If you can't blame Christianity for it, it doesn't really register with some people.
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cherrypoptart
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> Pete at Home


> Aris, have you ever engaged conversation on a Muslim website? I was a little surprised at the prevalance of certain beliefs ... for example, many folks blame Salman Rushdie for the murders of his editors and translators.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Verses

"As of early 2010 Rushdie has not been physically harmed, but others connected with the book have suffered violent attacks. Hitoshi Igarashi, the Japanese language translator of the book, was stabbed to death on 11 July 1991; Ettore Capriolo, the Italian language translator, was seriously injured in a stabbing the same month; William Nygaard, the publisher in Norway, barely survived an attempted assassination in Oslo in October 1993, and Aziz Nesin, the Turkish language translator, was the intended target in the events that led to the Sivas massacre on 2 July 1993 in Sivas, Turkey, which resulted in the deaths of 37 people."

-------------------------------------------

That's a good point to remember about the translators. Jeez, had to kill a Japanese translator? What the ...? Was that really necessary?

I don't see how or why anyone would try to make excuses for, downplay, and minimize this monstrous evil.

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G2
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quote:
Police in New York are investigating whether a car bomb in Times Square was targeted on the makers of South Park over a controversial depiction of the Prophet Muhammad.

The device, which failed to detonate, was left near the offices of Viacom, which owns the irreverent cartoon series.

Last month postings on an Islamic website warned the creators of South Park - Matt Stone and Trey Parker - that they could face violent reprisals after an episode of the show featured Muhammad in a bear suit.

A posting on the website of a US-based group called Revolution Muslim warned Stone and Parker that they would “probably wind up like Theo Van Gogh”, the Dutch film-maker who was murdered in 2004 by a Muslim angered by his film about Muslim women.


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edgmatt
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Where did you find that G2?
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JoshCrow
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quote:
Originally posted by edgmatt:
Where did you find that G2?

Newsweek has the same "angle".
Link

It's just a rumor at this point.

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G2
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quote:
Originally posted by edgmatt:
Where did you find that G2?

Local news station and also being reported in UK media. Looks like it's a lot more than just rumor.

[ May 02, 2010, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: G2 ]

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edgmatt
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I think JoshCrow is saying the theory that it's an attack on the South Park crew is just a rumor, not the attempting bombing.
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TommySama
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A neighbor growing up had a brother on the FBI 10 most wanted list. He poisoned/shot a couple of wives, and blew one of them up with a car bomb (think she survived, somehow).
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G2
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quote:
Originally posted by G2 April 27:
Seattle cartoonists chickens out:
quote:
In declaring May 20th to be “Everybody Draw Muhammad Day,” Seattle artist Molly Norris created a poster-like cartoon showing many objects — from a cup of coffee to a box of pasta to a tomato — all claiming to be the likeness of Muhammad.

[...]On Friday, Norris told a radio talk show host in Seattle that she came up with the idea because “as a cartoonist, I just felt so much passion about what had happened…” noting that “it’s a cartoonist’s job to be non-PC.”

That passion, it appears, has lessened. And fast.

Her stark website today reads: “”I am NOT involved in “Everybody Draw Mohammd [sic] Day!”

[...]

Once it became a national story she reeled back, asking [blogger Dan] Savage — in an email he provided to The Ticket — if he would “be kind enough to switch out my poster” with another one — a much tamer version which has no images attributed to Muhammad.

“I am sort of freaked out about my name/image being all over the place,” her e-mail reads.

Someone must have mentioned to her how muslims kill people that do that.
So back in April Molly tried to back out but it was apparently too late:
quote:
A charismatic terror leader linked to the botched Times Square car bomb has placed the Seattle cartoonist who launched "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day" on an execution hitlist.

The Yemeni-American cleric Anwar al-Awlaki - the radical who's also been cited as inspiring the Fort Hood, Tex., massacre and the plot by two New Jersey men to kill U.S. soldiers - singled out artist Molly Norris as a "prime target," saying her "proper abode is Hellfire."

FBI officials have notified Norris and warned her they consider it a "very serious threat."

Appeasement. Hows that working out for Molly? Why should any of use think an appeasement strategy will work out any different for us?
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G2
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Two months later and the Seattle Weekly announced that Molly Norris has gone into hiding:
quote:
The FBI told her she had to because otherwise it couldn't protect her against death threats from Muslims she'd angered.
Molly is in a lot of trouble and getting a very personal tutorial on the lesson she should have learned on the morning of 9/11/2001.
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TomDavidson
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What lesson is that?
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G2
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I know, you probably forgot all about it. Try googling 9-11 and you can get up to speed. Tell you what you can try, put on a shirt with a cartoon of Muhammad on it and head down any street in the ME. Send us a full report of what you learn...if you make it back. However, I'm betting a little intentional obtuseness (again) is about all you intend to actually deliver.

[ September 21, 2010, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: G2 ]

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TomDavidson
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No, I'm serious: what lesson do you think cartoonists should have learned from 9/11?
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cherrypoptart
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I'd tell you but then someone would have to kill me.
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by cherrypoptart:
> Pete at Home


> Aris, have you ever engaged conversation on a Muslim website? I was a little surprised at the prevalance of certain beliefs ... for example, many folks blame Salman Rushdie for the murders of his editors and translators.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Verses

"As of early 2010 Rushdie has not been physically harmed, but others connected with the book have suffered violent attacks. Hitoshi Igarashi, the Japanese language translator of the book, was stabbed to death on 11 July 1991; Ettore Capriolo, the Italian language translator, was seriously injured in a stabbing the same month; William Nygaard, the publisher in Norway, barely survived an attempted assassination in Oslo in October 1993, and Aziz Nesin, the Turkish language translator, was the intended target in the events that led to the Sivas massacre on 2 July 1993 in Sivas, Turkey, which resulted in the deaths of 37 people."

-------------------------------------------

That's a good point to remember about the translators. Jeez, had to kill a Japanese translator? What the ...? Was that really necessary?

I don't see how or why anyone would try to make excuses for, downplay, and minimize this monstrous evil.

Funny thing is that last statement you said sounds very much like something the Muslims I spoke to said. Except they attribute the "monstrous evil" to the writing of the Satanic verses. Their spin on things is why did Salman Rushdie have to go get that poor Japanese translator killed? Look at all the suffering his book has led to?

Amazing, isn't it?

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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by Aris Katsaris:
One notices that it is in the specifically both imperialistic and anti-Western nations of Syria and Iran that the most noteworthy protests took place -- which indicates that, far from being impromptu Muslim anger at depictions of Mohammed, these protests were merely state-supported imperialist intimidation techniques by the specific nations.

If it was about supposed Muslim barbarism, you'd see similar levels of protests across muslim populations, from Nigeria to Indonesia to Saudi Arabia.

Even if it was about level of commitment to that belief, you'd still expect Saudi Arab or Nigerian protests to be bigger than Syrian ones, as SA and half of Nigeria follows Shariah law, and Syria doesn't.

Instead, the major protests happened not in the most fanatically Islamic of nations, but in the most imperialistic of such. Syria (ambitions against Lebanon and Israel) and Iran (ambitions against Iraq). And of course Hamas & Hezbollah which are genocidally imperialistic.

Which in turns indicates that actual muslims don't really care, except when instigated by their imperialistic governments.

I like that analysis. But weren't there demonstrations in Afghanistan, or am I confused with the reaction to the Koran rumor incident?
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cherrypoptart
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/10/11/cartoonist-seeing-red-muhammad-cartoon-yanked/?test=latestnews

"An award-winning cartoonist is seeing red after editors at The Washington Post and other newspapers pulled a "very tame" cartoon that alluded to the Prophet Muhammad.

Wiley Miller, whose "Non Sequitur" comic strip has won several national awards and appears daily in roughly 800 newspapers, said he was not surprised by the decision to yank the single-panel, "Where's Muhammad?"cartoon because even the word itself is such a "dicey thing" nowadays.

"That's all they saw," Miller told FoxNews.com of the word Muhammad. "[Editors] didn't see the satire was on them, of being petrified to run anything related to him. But this whole thing has just gotten so silly over the years. It's something I can't lay off. It's my job as a satirist to point out the stupidity in the world. And the editors fell right in line with proving how stupid it is."

The cartoon, which was originally submitted in August and had been scheduled to appear in newspapers nationwide on Oct. 3, depicts a lively, seek-and-find-esque park scene complete with a giraffe, a skateboarder, a cyclist, frolicking children and a large hippopotamus. An accompanying caption reads: "Picture Book Title Voted Least Likely to Ever Find a Publisher … Where's Muhammad?"

Miller, 59, of Maine, said the cartoon was intended to be a satirical reference to the global furor that followed the 2006 decision by a Danish newspaper to solicit depictions of Muhammad. It also invoked "Everybody Draw Muhammad Day!," a free-speech-inspired call to action this year originally jump-started by a cartoonist now living in hiding after receiving death threats from Muslim extremists.

Miller said he frequently uses Biblical references in his work, citing "great metaphors" he can draw upon throughout his comic strip. But the decision not to run this drawing, Miller said, is an example of being overly sensitive due to the subject matter.

"They proved me wrong by not running it, by being afraid of running it," Miller said. "It was a tame cartoon. The satire was on media, not Islam."

Miller said he has yet to receive a single piece of correspondence from fans who were upset or offended by the drawing.

"Quite the contrary, they loved it," he said. "Who the hell knows what Muhammad looks like?!"

Meanwhile, Andrew Alexander, ombudsman for The Washington Post, wrote on Sunday that he thought editors at the newspaper were "wrong" to withhold the cartoon.

"Clearly, Miller has a right to draw the cartoon, and The Post has the right to run it," Alexander wrote. "But 'Non Sequitur' followers expect that. And there's a difference between provoking anger and provoking readers to think."

Ned Martel, the newspaper's Style editor, said he decided to yank the cartoon after conferring with others, including Executive Editor Marcus Brauchli, because it "seemed a deliberate provocation without a clear message."

The "point of the joke was not immediately clear," Brauchli added, according to Alexander.

For his part, Miller said he intends to lampoon a new target in the near future -- editors.

"The irony is rife," he told FoxNews.com. "How the editors mishandled it and only compounded it with their spin on it, it's a matter of sitting back and letting them hang themselves. They don't need any help from me."

Photo credit: Non Sequitur © 2010 Wiley Miller. Dist. by Universal Uclick. All rights reserved.

----------------------------------------------

He's right about the irony. And that's the tastiest part of this whole little treat.

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Pyrtolin
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quote:
"Who the hell knows what Muhammad looks like?!"
Well, on that one we could easily consult the dozens of pictures of him painted by Islamic artists, especially over the first several hundred year after he founded the faith...
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