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Author Topic: Students Kicked Off Campus for Wearing American Flag Tees
JWatts
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quote:
Originally posted by DonaldD:
This is enough to hit my 'suspicion' button. What we do have is a mother's interpretation of her child's interpretation of events, and this presented as fact.

It seems likely that if the account were far off the truth then the superintendent of schools and/or the principal would have said something to that affect.

quote:
Mike Brusa, the superintendent of schools, told FOX in a written statement that he had contacted the principal and that the issue “was taken care of to their (the parent’s) satisfaction.”

“The school administration and the parents did not view this as significant enough to bring it to the superintendent’s office,” he wrote.


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Grant
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quote:
Originally posted by The Drake:
from the flag code:

(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free.

(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like...

(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume


Those kids were far from showing respect to America, its symbols, or its principles.

Far from it for me to argue with the flag police. I have no doubt that the children were violating the mighty flag code, and should be brought to flag jail.

American soldiers and marines wear the American flag on their right shoulders. Are they in violation of the flag code? Overseas workers often wear the American flag on their apparel, are they in violation of the flag code as well? The BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA, the closest thing we actually have to a flag police in the country, wear the American flag on their uniforms.

I question weather the flag code is being misinterpreted or is out of date in these cases. I can see a guy walking down Mainstreet, wearing nothing but a flag, draped like a toga, is being disrespectful. Do I think Michael Jordan was being disrespectful when he draped himself in the American flag following the victory of the 1996 Olympic basketball team? No I don't. I can see that a guy wearing a tee-shirt with the american flag on it and words written underneath that say "F*@# AMERICA" is being disrespectful, he's also protected by the first amendment.

The flag code is neither law nor does it seem to be iron clad in every case.

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DonaldD
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Nothing in what was written suggests that the specifics of the incident were discussed with the pricipal, only that the superintendent gave a PC "no comment" to the journalist.
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edgmatt
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quote:
The flag code is neither law nor does it seem to be iron clad in every case.
Not to mention it's completely irrelevant in these two cases. They weren't told to remove the shirts because of the disrespect to the flag. They were told to remove the shirt because of a perceived disrespect to someone else. The same goes for the drawing of the flag. Even without the teacher praising the other picture of the President, it's ridiculous.

What if a different student had drawn a picture of President Obama holding a U.S.A flag?

I could argue, that in one sense, a picture of the U.S.A. flag and a picture the President of the U.S.A. are nearly the same thing. They both are symbols of the U.S.A.

Despite the words being put in their mouths by some people, there is no evidence whatsoever that these children had any intention of insult or disrespect.

I'll digress and pretend that they were trying to insult and disrespect the Mexican holiday. As Ricky said:
quote:
Nobody has the right to be offended by the American flag on American soil. Of course they can be offended, but they don't have the right to have anyone respect their sense of offense.

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Michelle
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Cinco de Mayo is not a Mexican holiday, it's an American holiday for Mexicans, akin to St Patrick's day being promoted as an American holiday originally to honor Irishmen serving under George Washington in the continental army.

Cinco de Mayo was a point in Mexican history exploited solely for the good intent of improving relations between Anglo-Saxons and Latinos in this country. How's that going?

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Grant
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Hmmmm, so wearing an english flag on my shirt during St.Paddy's Day would cause problems? I guess if I walked into an IRA bar in south Boston....

It does seem to be American soil the school was situated on. I can't see why an American flag would insult or bother Chicano children. I can see how a Nazi flag might bother a Jewish kid. I can see how a Japanese flag might bother a Korean kid, in Korea. I can even imagine how an American flag might bother a Sioux kid, depending on what atmosphere he has been brought up in. I guess I can imagine how a confederate flag might bother an African-American, but quite frankly I think they've learned to deal with those people.

As long as it is still the United States, the flag of the United States should generally not cause people to get angry, and if it does, why are they here? I admit I'm really confused by this whole thing. I don't get it. Everybody has a right to be pissed at the US government, burn flags, etc. But I can't see how that extends to burning other people's flags or telling them to take it off their shirts.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
there is no evidence whatsoever that these children had any intention of insult or disrespect.
Yeah, they just all spontaneously decided to wear the American flag on Cinco de Mayo because, hey, it was a convenient date in May.

*rolls eyes*

Dude, you are not that clueless.

----------

quote:
I can't see why an American flag would insult or bother Chicano children.
I've spent a lot of words explaining this. Are you still having trouble?
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Grant
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
there is no evidence whatsoever that these children had any intention of insult or disrespect.
Yeah, they just all spontaneously decided to wear the American flag on Cinco de Mayo because, hey, it was a convenient date in May.

*rolls eyes*

Dude, you are not that clueless.

----------

quote:
I can't see why an American flag would insult or bother Chicano children.
I've spent a lot of words explaining this. Are you still having trouble?

[Crying] Man, I guess I still am having trouble getting it. Sorry.

It's an American flag, worn by an American kid, in an American school.

I just can't imagine a Mexican school sending one of it's children home for wearing a Mexican flag on the fourth of July, if school wasn't out already. I can't see a Canadian school sending one of it's kids home for wearing a Canadian flag on the fourth of July, if the school was open.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
I just can't imagine a Mexican school sending one of it's children home for wearing a Mexican flag on the fourth of July, if school wasn't out already.
That's because you are, I suspect, being willfully ignorant of the context.

The context is this:
The school has a large number of Hispanic students, and some of the non-Hispanic students feel that "their" culture -- the majority culture of their homeland -- is being ignored or actively suppressed. To protest this suppression, they chose to make a show of American nationalism on a day when they fully expected the Hispanic minority to be making a show of Hispanic nationalism. They did so to make a point: this is America, not Mexico, and your (Hispanic) culture is not one we wish to welcome.

Your hypothetical examples -- which all involved someone choosing to wear another country's colors on the Fourth of July -- fail precisely because they do not recognize the obvious fact: America is the dominant world culture. Moreover, expat Americans -- except in a very few specific cases, in which cases I actually might expect to see situations like these -- are not a significant and rapidly-growing minority in most international school systems.

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JWatts
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
The school has a large number of Hispanic students, and some of the non-Hispanic students feel that "their" culture -- the majority culture of their homeland -- is being ignored or actively suppressed.

LOL [Big Grin] Your absolutely right Tom. Clearly the Mexican culture in the US is being actively suppressed. [Roll Eyes]

There were no Cinco de Mayo celebrations in the US. Cinco de Mayo is not predominantly an American holiday. All non-Mexicans shunned it. And the margarita industry is in dire straights. [Wink]

By the way, how does the fact that two of the five that wore the American apparel are actually Mexican-Americans fit into your world view?

Source


Also, Cinco de Mayo is NOT a Hispanic celebration. It's a Mexican-American holiday. How do you think the non-Mexican Hispanic kids feel? What holiday do they get? Were they sent home for showing a non-Mexican flag? Think of the children. [Eek!]

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Grant
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
I just can't imagine a Mexican school sending one of it's children home for wearing a Mexican flag on the fourth of July, if school wasn't out already.
That's because you are, I suspect, being willfully ignorant of the context.

The context is this:
The school has a large number of Hispanic students, and some of the non-Hispanic students feel that "their" culture -- the majority culture of their homeland -- is being ignored or actively suppressed. To protest this suppression, they chose to make a show of American nationalism on a day when they fully expected the Hispanic minority to be making a show of Hispanic nationalism. They did so to make a point: this is America, not Mexico, and your (Hispanic) culture is not one we wish to welcome.

Your hypothetical examples -- which all involved someone choosing to wear another country's colors on the Fourth of July -- fail precisely because they do not recognize the obvious fact: America is the dominant world culture. Moreover, expat Americans -- except in a very few specific cases, in which cases I actually might expect to see situations like these -- are not a significant and rapidly-growing minority in most international school systems.

Man, you are right about me being ignorant, but I don't think it's willfull. I really didn't understand a dang thing you wrote. What does any of that up there have to do with saying that it was wrong to wear the american flag on that specific day? Because it was antagonistic? How many kids wearing yankee caps were sent home from boston public schools last november? If the kids really were being jerks, was that the right response? Wearing a shirt is one thing. If the kids were mouthing off or being verbally antagonistic, that's another. But just wearing a shirt? How sensitive were these Chicano kids?

Maybe I just don't get it, but being a quarter Mexican probably makes me immune to understanding. This immunity has led me to be ignorant. But I promise it is not willful, I do try to understand where you are coming from, but I don't get it.

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Grant
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quote:
Originally posted by JWatts:
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
The school has a large number of Hispanic students, and some of the non-Hispanic students feel that "their" culture -- the majority culture of their homeland -- is being ignored or actively suppressed.

LOL [Big Grin] Your absolutely right Tom. Clearly the Mexican culture in the US is being actively suppressed. [Roll Eyes]

There were no Cinco de Mayo celebrations in the US. Cinco de Mayo is not predominantly an American holiday. All non-Mexicans shunned it. And the margarita industry is in dire straights. [Wink]

By the way, how does the fact that two of the five that wore the American apparel are actually Mexican-Americans fit into your world view?

Source


Also, Cinco de Mayo is NOT a Hispanic celebration. It's a Mexican-American holiday. How do you think the non-Mexican Hispanic kids feel? What holiday do they get? Were they sent home for showing a non-Mexican flag? Think of the children. [Eek!]

I think Tom was trying to say that the AMERICAN-AMERICAN children thought THEIR culture, the "dominant world culture" was under attack by cinco-de-mayo. This caused them to transform into Red State mini-hicks who hate Mexican culture and detest tacos and tequila. Because of their evil ways they were sent home. That's how I understood it.
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Individual Persona
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I recall reading an article in the local paper long ago. It was an entire article saying "shame on you" to Laura Bush for wearing a cross around her neck while making public speech.

I apologize for not being able to post the article. And in retrospect I wonder if the columnist responsible wasn't being flippant or sarcastic. But I can recall no indication that the author wasn't completely serious about being offended.
Offended that the First Lady would openly display her religion, during a public speaking, subjecting all viewers to her religious pressure.

It was a few years ago but I remember the author being completely, hopelessly, and personally offended, as if he wrote a letter to Laura requesting her not to wear religious symbols and she wore it anyway, for a public speaking, to spite the writer directly.


Now we have high school kids behaving like kids, and there are a bunch of adults here in this forum trying to determine every possible interpretation of what may or may not have been the case.

And this is exactly how different denominations came to be. Jesus is quoted as saying "This is my body, broken for you" and now you have all churches arguing over whether or not the bread actually transforms into Jesus' body when you eat it at communion.

Let's lay this to rest. Kids and immature adults will always try to claim something for their own, and hold it up high as if nobody can possibly have anything better. Be it a nationality, a basketball team, or a car. And the kids will fight for what they believe in. The stupid ones will kill or die for what they believe in before they know what it means to truly believe in something. This Cinco de Mayo business is ridiculous, and political correctness is getting ridiculous. And the way everybody expects the authority figures to step in and make everything perfect is ridiculous.

And you know when this ridiculousness started? When someone had the bright idea of making everyone other then himself responsible for his own happiness. And yes, I consciously left the feminine pronouns out. If you can get the Latin based language speakers to include both genders in their speech, then I will do so as well. Then we can celebrate Cinco/Cinca de mayo/maya with all the chicanos/chicanas en los/las escuelos/escuelas.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
What does any of that up there have to do with saying that it was wrong to wear the american flag on that specific day?
It wasn't wrong to wear the flag. It was "wrong" to wear the flag, en masse, in symbolic opposition to a celebration of Hispanic culture.

quote:
political correctness is getting ridiculous
This is, of course, exactly what the people pretending to be stupid in this thread are trying to insinuate. But they're not actually that stupid, I hope.
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Grant
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Soooooooo.....

A kid flipping the bird to cinco de mayo is in "symbolic opposition" to Hispanic culture? Really?

How exactly has the American flag oppressed or opposed Hispanic culture? I would personally think that the USA is the best thing that ever happened to Central and South America. Without the USA, I wouldn't exist cause some of my people would still be living in decrepitude down in Mexico.

I understand what you're trying to tell me. I do understand that some of those poor Chicano kids really were threatened and hurt by the American flag. But don't you think they were being a bit thinthitif?

Sorry, this is all horse cac. This is an argument by two groups of teenagers and somehow I've been drug into it and feel completely soiled. If you're offended by the American flag while living in the US, I've got bad news for you.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
A kid flipping the bird to cinco de mayo is in "symbolic opposition" to Hispanic culture? Really?
Yes.

quote:
How exactly has the American flag oppressed or opposed Hispanic culture?
Excuse me while I blink at you in absolutely incredulous amazement for a while. Is this something that you really need explained to you?

But before I let that issue potentially distract me, let me again point out that the issue is not that the flag itself is somehow the problem, or that some sort of direct oppression needs to be occurring here. I suspect you know that, though.

quote:
But don't you think they were being a bit thinthitif?
If a schoolyard bully punches my daughter, she will probably cry. If that same bully punches me, I probably won't. Should a teacher not get involved if a bully punches my daughter because, hey, she wouldn't be crying if she weren't so much more sensitive than I am?

quote:
If you're offended by the American flag while living in the US, I've got bad news for you.
See, you keep dragging out this dumb sound byte, but what gets lost in the willfully dumbed-down translation is that it was not the mere display of the flag that actually offended. The kids could have, for example, stood up in the lunchroom and loudly sung "America the Beautiful," and that would have been just as offensive. The message -- "Mexicans shut up or get out" -- is what offended. And it takes a real effort not to recognize that that was the message.
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philnotfil
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quote:
Originally posted by edgmatt:
What if a different student had drawn a picture of President Obama holding a U.S.A flag?

Teacher's head A Splode.
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simplybiological
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OK, so as some of you know, I'm a high school teacher. From my experience, I will say the following:

a) The teachers/administrators at the school know the students in question well enough to know if their choice of clothing was accidental or deliberately incendiary.

b) Proving this is quite another matter.

c) As a teacher at a school with general harmony but a lot of racial awareness and occasional tension, I would have pulled aside a student wearing an American flag deliberately on May 5th and talked to them about how their actions might be perceived by other students. I probably would not have turned them into the admin.

d) I can TOTALLY see why the admin acted as they did.

e) I can TOTALLY see why people don't think it's justified.


I have a recurring issue with a kid wearing a confederate flag and can never decide exactly how I feel about it or what to do about it. It's not the same, but it is, but it isn't. Which is basically the argument on this thread, no?

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cherrypoptart
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This seems like we are getting into thought crime territory here, and I'll admit to the racist element. Racist against white people.

If these white kids were black students wearing representations of the American flag, would they have been sent home? What if they were Hispanic students? So it's not what they did that was wrong, but their race and what they were assumed to be thinking.

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DonaldD
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simplybiological!!! Oh my goodness, it's been so long. Welcome back.
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Grant
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quote:
Originally posted by cherrypoptart:
This seems like we are getting into thought crime territory here, and I'll admit to the racist element. Racist against white people.

If these white kids were black students wearing representations of the American flag, would they have been sent home? What if they were Hispanic students? So it's not what they did that was wrong, but their race and what they were assumed to be thinking.

Actually, from what I can gather, some of the kids wearing the flag were Mexican American. The crime was wearing a symbol of a culture that has oppressed the Mexican race, and the rest of the world, during a Hispanic-American themed holiday, with the intent to oppress the other Mexican-American kids who found the wearing of the flag on that particular day offensive.

Basically equating wearing the American flag on cinco-de-mayo to wearing the Nazi flag on passover.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
Basically equating wearing the American flag on cinco-de-mayo to wearing the Nazi flag on passover.
Not quite. Wearing a swastika would be considerably worse, of course.

It would be much more like organizing a bunch of people to wear "God is Dead" T-shirts on Easter, or shirts with the face of David Duke on them on Martin Luther King's birthday.

The intent, of course, is to publicly broadcast an opinion without having to have the courage to actually say anything; it's like wearing a sign. Basically, it's passive argumentation.

And while I will be the first person to defend anyone's right to argue a point -- passively or not -- in most venues, I do have to point out that doing so in schools has long since been verboten. (My own feelings on that subject should be well-known.) In other words, this is not a case of anti-American bias or political correctness run amok; this is a case of school authorities reacting to shut down a potentially offensive "conversation" lest they become legally liable for the offense.

If you want to talk about whether or not kids should be free to voice their opinions at school, that's one thing. But this isn't about whether kids should or shouldn't be able to wear the flag.

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simplybiological
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quote:
but their race and what they were assumed to be thinking.
High school kids are many things, but subtle is not one of them. If these kids meant this to be a protest of sorts, they telegraphed that loud and clear. Like I said, when you have a kid in your class all year, you know them well enough to know if they are attempting a statement or simply wearing a shirt.

The issue is not whether the students have a right to wear a shirt with the American flag on it. Of course they have that right, and I doubt any teacher or admin at that school would dispute that.

The issue is whether or not this choice of clothing had the potential to escalate racial tension and create an unsafe atmosphere. That is a judgement call made by the administration based on the students involved, the response of other students, and lots of other data that is unfortunately highly subjective and hard to document.

The cost of letting this slide and risking racially-motivated fights is pretty high- the cost of a few kids changing shirts is low. If there was a way to prove that this decision prevented violence, no one would be questioning it.

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Grant
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
Basically equating wearing the American flag on cinco-de-mayo to wearing the Nazi flag on passover.
Not quite. Wearing a swastika would be considerably worse, of course.

It would be much more like organizing a bunch of people to wear "God is Dead" T-shirts on Easter, or shirts with the face of David Duke on them on Martin Luther King's birthday.

Ahhhh, I understand now. Wearing the American flag is like wearing a shirt that says "cinco-de-mayo sucks", or "tequila and tacos taste like s#$%" on a Mexican-American holiday. Because after all, that is what the American flag represents, the oppression of Mexicans and the dominance of America over all other nations and races in the world.

Question: Does the American flag represent repression and oppression of the Mexican peoples only on cinco-de-mayo, or on every day? What if I wore the American flag on my chest during black history month? What if I wore an American flag to a native American tribal gathering?

If we can equate the American flag to wearing a picture of David Duke on Martin Luther King Day, does that make the American flag essentially the same as wearing a picture of Cortes? Because after all, doesn't the American flag and Cortes represent the same concept of oppression and hatred?

Is wearing a picture of David Duke or a swastika to school wrong only on certain days? I mean, can I wear my swastika on any day besides Rosh Hoshanna, Yom Kippur, or Passover? Can I wear my David Duke t-shirt on Easter? Just not on Martin Luther King Jr. Day?

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DonaldD
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The american flag symbolizes whatever the person wearing it, hanging it or wielding it wants it to symbolize. Interestingly, it also symbolizes what other people who see it think that person wants it to symbolize. That is the nature of a symbol - it has no inherent meaning outside of what people associate to it.

To believe that a symbol has a constant, immutable meaning is a bit bizarre, frankly. And yes, take the swastika as just one example - if a bunch of Hindu or Buddhist students took to all wearing swatika motif clothing on Yom Kippur, I would think that suspicious, even absent other knowledge if those students, whereas the same students wearing such attire somewhat independently and irregularly throughout the year might not raise concerns.

Similarly, when the KKK marches down main street waving american flags, do those flags mean the same thing as the flag draped over the coffin at a military funeral?

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Grant
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So if I believe that My Little Pony is evil, and I use My Little Pony as a symbol of evil, and if another individual interprets My Little Pony as evil, then My Little Pony is a symbol of evil.

If I want the symbol "1" to represent "2", then it does for me. Thus nothing has any meaning other then the meaning we assign to it ourselves. Everything is relative and subjective.

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DonaldD
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quote:
So if I believe that My Little Pony is evil, and I use My Little Pony as a symbol of evil, and if another individual interprets My Little Pony as evil, then My Little Pony is a symbol of evil.
That really wasn't so hard, was it?
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LetterRip
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Grant,

interestingly the meaning of the swastika started out as being highly honorable.

Then it was used to represent a nationalistic movement.

That movement involved many evil actions. The honorable association of the symbol was lost to many people, leaving only the evil association.

Now the majority of people in western nations associate the symbol with evil.

So yes in fact symbols only have the meaning we assign them.

quote:

If I want the symbol "1" to represent "2", then it does for me.

It can indeed. Certainly you've heard of 'substitution cyphers', where the meaning of one symbol is now used to represent the meaning of another symbol.

quote:
Thus nothing has any meaning other then the meaning we assign to it ourselves. Everything is relative and subjective.
The interactions of the universe have independent meaning. Symbolic interpretation is purely a matter of assigned meaning. We often find it convenient to agree to interpret some symbols the same since it can be useful for communication.
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Grant
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Then the crux of the problem is that we do not agree that the American Flag, as a symbol, symbolizes anything to be offensive to Mexican-Americans, regardless of what day it is, and regardless of what the intent of an individual to wear it has.

If a person walks into my Vodka Lovers Society meeting with a t-shirt depicting Fozzy Bear, runs up to me pointing at it and yelling "In your face vodka lovers!", I will not understand what the heck is his problem. Despite the individuals belief that Fozzy Bear symbolizes the superiority of whiskey, the symbolism is lost on me. The Anti-Vodka league can adopt Fozzy Bear as their mascot, but I and my fellow Vodka lovers will only scratch our heads.

The question remains: Is the American Flag a symbol of disrespect to the Mexican-American people? If one group of people believe it is, and another do not, then we have miscommunication.

I honestly challenge that if a student truly did walk into a school quoting Nietzsche on his T-shirt on Good Friday, and if he was forced to remove it, there would be another turdstorm of equal proportions from some group.

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scifibum
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quote:
The question remains: Is the American Flag a symbol of disrespect to the Mexican-American people? If one group of people believe it is, and another do not, then we have miscommunication.
No. This is disagreement, not miscommunication. Symbolic meaning isn't exclusive and objective.
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MattP
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quote:
The question remains: Is the American Flag a symbol of disrespect to the Mexican-American people?
Is it? In general, no. Can it be? Sure. Suppose someone posted a flyer around the school saying "Let's remind these Mexicans what country they're in. No one celebrates July 4 in Tijuana, why should we care about Cinqo de Mayo here? Wear an American Flag on May 5 to let these foreigners know that this is our country and if they don't like it they can go home."
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DonaldD
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quote:
The question remains: Is the American Flag a symbol of disrespect to the Mexican-American people?
You claim to understand, but if sincere (which you now seem to be) you really don't seem to 'get' it.

First off, the "is" gets you off on the wrong foot. The "of" is also problematic. And talking about "the Mexican-American people" as a uniform group means you are arguing against something completely different than what we are claiming on this thread.

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Grant
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quote:
Originally posted by MattP:
quote:
The question remains: Is the American Flag a symbol of disrespect to the Mexican-American people?
Is it? In general, no. Can it be? Sure. Suppose someone posted a flyer around the school saying "Let's remind these Mexicans what country they're in. No one celebrates July 4 in Tijuana, why should we care about Cinqo de Mayo here? Wear an American Flag on May 5 to let these foreigners know that this is our country and if they don't like it they can go home."
But was the American Flag the problem? Or was the writing on the flyer the problem? You see, the flag did not offend, the writing did.
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MattP
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In the context of the flyer the American Flag would become an offensive symbol on that day. A group of students had specifically declared that when they are displaying the flag they are doing it to convey their agreement with the message of the flyer.
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Grant
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quote:
Originally posted by MattP:
In the context of the flyer the American Flag would become an offensive symbol on that day. A group of students had specifically declared that when they are displaying the flag they are doing it to convey their agreement with the message of the flyer.

I disagree. If the flyer had only the American flag on it, and no words, then there is no offense. If the flyer had only words on it, then the flyer would still be offensive. The flag in and of itself is not offensive, coupled with incendiary language, it is still not the offender.

If the KKK march with the American flag, that does not make the American flag a symbol of the KKK, despite the KKK attempting to use it as such. This is my subjective opinion because I do not see the American Flag, which is a symbol and represents the United States, and being representative of the goals and methods of the KKK.

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MattP
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I think my last comment in the trolling thread best describes the situation - when both parties to a communication agree about the meaning of a symbol then *that* is what the symbol means. That's the definition of symbolic communication.
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Pete at Home
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That's completely unacceptable. The kids that complained should get detentions, the staff should get black marks and required apologies, and all should get remedial tolerance lessons.

It would have been likewise outrageous for kids to complain and teachers to discipline kids that wore a Mexican flag on the fourth of July.

Bet the little worthless losers that made a stink about it don't even know what historical event that the Cinco de Mayo commemorates.

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DonaldD
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Grant, I assume you do not dispute that the nazi party, having marched down many streets with swastikas, did not make the swastika symbolic of certain radical fascist philosophies.

Is there something special about the qualities of the colour, fabric or pattern of the US flag that makes its symbolism absolutely immutable? (that, BTW, was sarcastic, not socratic [Smile] )

Seriously, what aside from the value that you associate with the flag makes its meaning absolutely non-subjective to all other people?

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Pete at Home
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quote:
Basically equating wearing the American flag on cinco-de-mayo to wearing the Nazi flag on passover.
Given that May 5 commemorates Mexico's victory over Napoeleon, that comparison has got to be the dumbest thing that I've ever heard on Ornery since ______ left.
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JWatts
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quote:
Originally posted by Pete at Home:
That's completely unacceptable. The kids that complained should get detentions, the staff should get black marks and required apologies, and all should get remedial tolerance lessons.

It would have been likewise outrageous for kids to complain and teachers to discipline kids that wore a Mexican flag on the fourth of July.

Bet the little worthless losers that made a stink about it don't even know what historical event that the Cinco de Mayo commemorates.

No, punishing the kids who complained about the presence of the "American flag" and "American Constitution", should just be told of what the constitution means. Freedom of speech should be at the top of the list.

Punishing them, other than having them write an essay on "Freedom of Speech" would be overkill. I believe the Hispanic vice-principal was disciplined or at the least his actions were disavowed.

Tolerance is a two way street.

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