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Author Topic: Glen Beck's "Restoring Honor" march
Rallan
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I've got a fair idea of what Glen Beck's worldview is, but what the heck was that march about? I can't find any media coverage that goes into detail on any actual demands or ideology.
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Pete at Home
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I suspect he just baited some silly Lefties into proclaiming August 28 as "Whitey should shut up and stay at home day." [LOL]
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Al Wessex
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The message is pretty confused, but at its simplest I think it was an attempt to fuse Christianism with politicism. It was organized and headlined by a right-wing entertainer on FOX and co-headlined by a right-wing political dilettante, who also appears on FOX. Its goal was to use the implicit message of King's mission to increase the "respectability" of groups that feel oppressed or shut out of or marginalized from the political process, which many white Christians feel describes themselves.

At a deeper level, there was an implied racist theme to it, because there always is. This is a white Christian nation, but a black man sits in the White House who many people in that crowd believe is not a Christian, and some feel he wasn't even born here. That's 3 strikes against him, and because we aren't talking about politics, we'll ignore strikes 4 and 5 for his Party and his political philosophy.
quote:
Catherine McDonald of Buckhead, head of the Atlanta chapter of the 9.12 Project, a group formed by Beck to promote conservative values, said Beck was providing a forum for people who believe [b]the nation has lost its sense of honor[/i] and focus on God.
What exactly does she mean to say we lost our sense of honor? Is she (aka Beck, because she heads the Atlanta Beck Project) saying that the War in Iraq was not honorable, the stimulus package...what?
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sfallmann
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I'll give some facts instead of assumptions like our buddy, Al.

One of the focuses was honoring the military. Money was raised for the Special Operations Warrior Foundation which "provides full scholarship grants and educational and family counseling to the surviving children of special operations personnel who die in operational or training missions and immediate financial assistance to severely wounded special operations personnel and their families."

Special Operations Warrior Foundation

It wasn't overtly political from everything I read about.

Here's a summary from a someone on the left which I think has some bias (because we all do), but was attempting to be fair.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/zontv/

The implied racism exists only in the world that many on left live in where most (which I suspect in private they think all) on the right are <Victim-group>phobes and <Victim-group>haters, ignorant, blah blah blah.

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DonaldD
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Do you think that " honoring the military" and being perceived as doing so publicly is not political in the USA today? It is a veritable shibboleth of US nationalism and unfortunately is used as a means of clobbering political opponents too often to be perceived of as a-political.
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TomDavidson
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quote:
The implied racism exists only in the world that many on left live in...
Beck, for his part, said he intended for the march to be a way to "reclaim" the Civil Rights Movement. Which does, to my mind, imply that he thinks it went wrong some time after King's speech.
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sfallmann
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
The implied racism exists only in the world that many on left live in...
Beck, for his part, said he intended for the march to be a way to "reclaim" the Civil Rights Movement. Which does, to my mind, imply that he thinks it went wrong some time after King's speech.
That would be racist in what way? Emphasizing not judging people by color but by their character and thinking that's no longer the case is racist?
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sfallmann
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quote:
Originally posted by DonaldD:
Do you think that " honoring the military" and being perceived as doing so publicly is not political in the USA today? It is a veritable shibboleth of US nationalism and unfortunately is used as a means of clobbering political opponents too often to be perceived of as a-political.

I think it can be political, but people on the left can always change their minds and decide that it's good to honor the military.
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TomDavidson
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quote:
That would be racist in what way? Emphasizing not judging people by color but by their character and thinking that's no longer the case is racist?
Instead of coming up with a straw man, try to come up with a legitimate answer. I'll wait.
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Pete at Home
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Al, your striking leap of logic from honor to religion to racism is strikingly reminiscient of Beck's own show:

quote:
Originally posted by Al Wessex:
At a deeper level, there was an implied racist theme to it, because there always is. This is a white Christian nation, but a black man sits in the White House who many people in that crowd believe is not a Christian, and some feel he wasn't even born here.

Are you pulling "white" out of anything that Beck or his fellow fearmongers said, or out of your ass? Are you intentionally using Beck techniques to fight Beck? Or is it Beck that's scaring you by using techniques that race and gender fearmongers on the Left have used for decades, and thought that they owned?
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PSRT
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quote:
I think it can be political, but people on the left can always change their minds and decide that it's good to honor the military.
Thank you for demonstrating exactly why "Honoring the Military," is a hostile political action in today's United States.
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Greg Davidson
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quote:
One of the focuses was honoring the military. Money was raised for the Special Operations Warrior Foundation which "provides full scholarship grants and educational and family counseling to the surviving children of special operations personnel who die in operational or training missions and immediate financial assistance to severely wounded special operations personnel and their families."
Ah, but the small print says that first all of the donations go to pay for all the costs of the event, including he compensation for those who appeared. Will there be headlines when it becomes clear that almost none of the money they raised goes to veterans or their families?

[ August 29, 2010, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: Greg Davidson ]

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sfallmann
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quote:
Originally posted by Greg Davidson:
quote:
One of the focuses was honoring the military. Money was raised for the Special Operations Warrior Foundation which "provides full scholarship grants and educational and family counseling to the surviving children of special operations personnel who die in operational or training missions and immediate financial assistance to severely wounded special operations personnel and their families."
Ah, but the small print says that first all of the donations go to pay for all the costs of the event, including he compensation for those who appeared. Will there be headlines when it becomes clear that almost none of the money they raised goes to veterans or their families?
I don't know. Why don't you look into it?
Must there always be nefarious forces at work?
Right-wingers screwing people?

Can't you just allow that people you normally think are **** can do a good thing once in a while?

From what I understand, what you are pointing out is s.o.p for events like this.

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sfallmann
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
That would be racist in what way? Emphasizing not judging people by color but by their character and thinking that's no longer the case is racist?
Instead of coming up with a straw man, try to come up with a legitimate answer. I'll wait.
You said:
Beck, for his part, said he intended for the march to be a way to "reclaim" the Civil Rights Movement. Which does, to my mind, imply that he thinks it went wrong some time after King's speech.

No question there.

I'll answer if you ask. How about you answer my questions? It's even got a question mark at the end so you can't miss it.

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sfallmann
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quote:
Originally posted by PSRT:
quote:
I think it can be political, but people on the left can always change their minds and decide that it's good to honor the military.
Thank you for demonstrating exactly why "Honoring the Military," is a hostile political action in today's United States.
Glad I didn't disappoint.
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Paladine
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quote:
Beck, for his part, said he intended for the march to be a way to "reclaim" the Civil Rights Movement. Which does, to my mind, imply that he thinks it went wrong some time after King's speech.
Does thinking that the Civil Rights Movement went wrong some time after MLK's speech mean that one's a racist? If so, why? If not, what are you talking about?
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TomDavidson
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quote:
Does thinking that the Civil Rights Movement went wrong some time after MLK's speech mean that one's a racist? If so, why?
Again, I'll let you think on that one.
I'm supremely confident that you can come up with an answer, provided you're willing to open your mind a bit and think past your own stubborn preconceptions.

If I must, I will translate. But I truly believe that it won't be necessary.

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Paladine
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I know what I think the answer to that question is; I'm asking what you think, in light of what you've written here. Any reason you'd rather have us play guessing games about what you think instead of simply and clearly stating it? I'm *supremely confident* that you're capable of it.
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Greg Davidson
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quote:
I don't know. Why don't you look into it?
Must there always be nefarious forces at work?
Right-wingers screwing people?

It is unclear what principle you are espousing through your sarcasm. There are not always nefarious forces at work. Sometimes there are (of course, that depends on how you define "nefarious"). I believe that in this instance the notion of charity for veterans (and their families) is being used as cover. Arguably, that might be okay if the veterans and their families actually got some money out of this, but I am skeptical in this instance that much of the money will trickle down to the intended recipients.

And, there is the irony of a "pro-veterans" theme for a thinly veiled partisan event designed to benefit the political party that has generally opposed the Democrats and on occasion fought against increases in veteran's benefits.

[ August 29, 2010, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: Greg Davidson ]

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sfallmann
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quote:
Originally posted by Greg Davidson:
quote:
I don't know. Why don't you look into it?
Must there always be nefarious forces at work?
Right-wingers screwing people?

It is unclear what principle you are espousing through your sarcasm. There are not always nefarious forces at work. Sometimes there are (of course, that depends on how you define "nefarious"). I believe that in this instance the notion of charity for veterans (and their families) is being used as cover. Arguably, that might be okay if the veterans and their families actually got some money out of this, but I am skeptical in this instance that much of the money will trickle down to the intended recipients.

And, there is the irony of a "pro-veterans" theme for a thinly veiled partisan event designed to benefit the political party that has generally opposed the Democrats and on occasion fought against increases in veteran's benefits.

I wasn't being sarcastic.

Your first reaction wasn't "Hey - they are doing something good in all the nonsense". You went and had to find fault, looking for some underlying, ill-intentioned ulterior motive. Hmm..I can't find anything anything on the surface, but if I dig enough I'm sure I can find a problem with it!

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sfallmann
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Here's Newsweek's take on it, for what it's worth. I'm sure that some of you here think that Newsweek is too right-wing and therefore suspect.

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/08/28/is-glenn-beck-runing-for-office.html

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tonylovern
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I'm a little confused. where did this march start? where did they march to? what was the total distance covered by this crowd of thousands of people?

I havent seen these details anywhere in the coverage of this event.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
I'm asking what you think, in light of what you've written here.
The overall question is: why are people detecting racist over- (and under-) tones in this little stunt of Beck's? The question presented to me, following my reminder that Beck himself has said that he intended his event to "reclaim" the Civil Rights movement (for his fans), is whether someone can think the Civil Rights movement needs reclamation without being a racist.

I submit that this followup question is the wrong followup question. More importantly, I submit that every person that has asked that followup question here has both the intelligence and the ability to connect the necessary dots between my reminder and the original question.

So: what might be perceived as racist in Glenn Beck's desire to reclaim the Civil Rights Movement for the Tea Party, symbolically starting from the last place before that movement went wrong?

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sfallmann
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
I'm asking what you think, in light of what you've written here.
The overall question is: why are people detecting racist over- (and under-) tones in this little stunt of Beck's? The question presented to me, following my reminder that Beck himself has said that he intended his event to "reclaim" the Civil Rights movement (for his fans), is whether someone can think the Civil Rights movement needs reclamation without being a racist.

I submit that this followup question is the wrong followup question. More importantly, I submit that every person that has asked that followup question here has both the intelligence and the ability to connect the necessary dots between my reminder and the original question.

So: what might be perceived as racist in Glenn Beck's desire to reclaim the Civil Rights Movement for the Tea Party, symbolically starting from the last place before that movement went wrong?

I'm not sure that anyone claimed that the movement "went wrong" right after the event 47 years ago. Claims have been made that it's not the same these days, but I don't think a specific date was given.

The only reason I can think of that anyone can accuse anyone associated with the event of being racist, is if they are white and conservative. That usually is enough to justify it.

Wait - they are probably christian too, so you can add your hatred or phobia of choice.

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TomDavidson
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Okay, let me elaborate. As part of the same paragraph in which he explains why he's "reclaiming" the Civil Rights movement, he has this to say about it:

"We are on the side of individual freedoms and liberties and damn it, we will reclaim the civil rights movement. We will take that movement, because we were the people that did it in the first place!"

I have serious difficulty coming up with a "we" that includes Glenn Beck that also includes the people who "did" the Civil Rights movement in the first place. Unless he's going to say that his opposition to universal healthcare means that he falls into the same camp as people who objected to Jim Crow laws.

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Greg Davidson
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quote:
Your first reaction wasn't "Hey - they are doing something good in all the nonsense". You went and had to find fault, looking for some underlying, ill-intentioned ulterior motive.
Why would you believe that this is my first reaction? Glenn Beck has repeatedly demonstrated that he is dishonest and manipulative. Based on demonstrated prior behavior, I am suspicious.
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sfallmann
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
Okay, let me elaborate. As part of the same paragraph in which he explains why he's "reclaiming" the Civil Rights movement, he has this to say about it:

"We are on the side of individual freedoms and liberties and damn it, we will reclaim the civil rights movement. We will take that movement, because we were the people that did it in the first place!"

I have serious difficulty coming up with a "we" that includes Glenn Beck that also includes the people who "did" the Civil Rights movement in the first place. Unless he's going to say that his opposition to universal healthcare means that he falls into the same camp as people who objected to Jim Crow laws.

I don't know what "we" means here. But how does that make him a racist or anything he said as "racist". Stupid. Ignorant. Nonsensical. Those might apply unless you know what the "we" means. Hell - even if you know you might disagree. But racist?
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sfallmann
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quote:
Originally posted by Greg Davidson:
quote:
Your first reaction wasn't "Hey - they are doing something good in all the nonsense". You went and had to find fault, looking for some underlying, ill-intentioned ulterior motive.
Why would you believe that this is my first reaction? Glenn Beck has repeatedly demonstrated that he is dishonest and manipulative. Based on demonstrated prior behavior, I am suspicious.
Why believe it's your first reaction? Based on demonstrated prior behavior, I am suspicious.
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Paladine
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quote:
I have serious difficulty coming up with a "we" that includes Glenn Beck that also includes the people who "did" the Civil Rights movement in the first place. Unless he's going to say that his opposition to universal healthcare means that he falls into the same camp as people who objected to Jim Crow laws.
How about people of faith? The abolition and civil rights movements were very much tied up with religious people and organizations.
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TomDavidson
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Glenn Beck is no more a person of faith than Al Sharpton is.
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G2
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
I'm asking what you think, in light of what you've written here.
The overall question is: why are people detecting racist over- (and under-) tones in this little stunt of Beck's?
People are not detecting it. Liberals are claiming it in an attempt to discredit and smear Beck and anyone else that may support non-liberal viewpoints. This is standard liberal playbook tactics. It used to work but now it just looks silly.
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Greg Davidson
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I have made an assertion, but let's turn it into a bet: let's check back August 2011 and see how much of the money actually winds up helping veterans and their families.
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TomDavidson
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quote:
Liberals are claiming it in an attempt to discredit and smear Beck and anyone else that may support non-liberal viewpoints.
That's certainly one possible rationale, although it is in my opinion a far less likely one. But why not spend a moment looking for other possibilities? I know you can.
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Viking_Longship
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quote:
Originally posted by G2:
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
I'm asking what you think, in light of what you've written here.
The overall question is: why are people detecting racist over- (and under-) tones in this little stunt of Beck's?
People are not detecting it. Liberals are claiming it in an attempt to discredit and smear Beck and anyone else that may support non-liberal viewpoints. This is standard liberal playbook tactics. It used to work but now it just looks silly.
And if Keith Olberman or Micheal Moore had organized it would you be giving them the benefit of the doubt or looking for some socialist/unpatriotic/mullah lover subtext?

Do I agree that it's a distortion? Probably but I'd have to be from Pluto not to know that everybody right and left is using the "liberal playbook" these days.

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Viking_Longship
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quote:
Originally posted by Greg Davidson:
quote:
Your first reaction wasn't "Hey - they are doing something good in all the nonsense". You went and had to find fault, looking for some underlying, ill-intentioned ulterior motive.
Why would you believe that this is my first reaction? Glenn Beck has repeatedly demonstrated that he is dishonest and manipulative. Based on demonstrated prior behavior, I am suspicious.
Do you have any evidence that the man is actually manipulative and dishonest that isn't attributable to being inconsistant and fickle?
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Jordan
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I do not believe the rally can safely be called "apolitical".

It was organised by Glen Beck, and the standout speakers were Alveda King and Sarah Palin. Alveda is an interesting and immediately politicising choice of speaker. She is the niece of Martin Luther King, Jr., a relationship she is not shy of publicising, and considers herself a strong supporter of his civil rights agenda. However, she has publicly excoriated his widow Coretta Scott King, who took up the mantle of the movement following his assassination, for having significantly expanded the civil rights agenda. Martin Luther King III, MLK Jr's eldest son, also disagrees with Alveda concerning his father's .

Glen Beck could have invited MLK III, a more immediate relation to the great MLK, but did not, and given his own affiliations and the presence of Sarah Palin, it is not difficult to guess why he considered Alveda a more fitting choice. I doubt that he would have invited Coretta were she still alive.

It is not difficult to see how a rally titled "Restoring Honor" (I swear, you Americans and your missing us are killing my childhood, one British schoolday at a time [Wink] ) with strong support from conservative Republicans might be seen as making a political statement. The statement could be seen as especially pointed given that it was held on the anniversary of MLK Jr.'s celebrated speech, on the site where it was held; that it was distinguished by the attendance of Alveda King, a relative of MLK Jr. and a prominent critic of several other current, high-profile civil rights agendas; that it was held in a time when such movements have appropriated the language of the black civil rights movement, a manoeuvre strongly rejected by many who would find shared political ground with Glen, Palin and Alveda.

Superficially, it seems like an expedient move. Canards like bigotry and racism are often used as politicised insults, as recently demonstrated by the storm in a teacup over the supposed racism of the Tea Party movement—a movement which I understand Glen Beck supports. Although this march has hardly quietened these accusations, it may go some way to galvanising his supporters against them for a while.

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Jordan
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quote:
Viking:
[I]f Keith Olberman or Micheal Moore had organized it would you be giving them the benefit of the doubt or looking for some socialist/unpatriotic/mullah lover subtext?

One would need to be rather silly indeed to assume that a political pundit of any bent is likely to organise such a high-profile event without there being some subtext. The cotemporaneous Reclaim the Dream rally was no doubt similarly politicised, although I am having a harder time finding coverage or details to offer any concrete criticism.

[ August 29, 2010, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: Jordan ]

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Greg Davidson
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quote:
Do you have any evidence that the man is actually manipulative and dishonest that isn't attributable to being inconsistent and fickle?
I can't truly know his motivations, but he acts to manipulate public opinion, and does so in a way inconsistent with fact. If it were inconsistent and fickle, then wouldn't he have to be pro-government, pro-Obama and pro- Democratic Party on some days?
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Viking_Longship
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quote:
Originally posted by Greg Davidson:
quote:
Do you have any evidence that the man is actually manipulative and dishonest that isn't attributable to being inconsistent and fickle?
I can't truly know his motivations, but he acts to manipulate public opinion, and does so in a way inconsistent with fact. If it were inconsistent and fickle, then wouldn't he have to be pro-government, pro-Obama and pro- Democratic Party on some days?
There's enough internal contradiction amongst conservative factions to keep him busy without having to cross the party lines.
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Viking_Longship
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quote:
Originally posted by Jordan:
quote:
Viking:
[I]f Keith Olberman or Micheal Moore had organized it would you be giving them the benefit of the doubt or looking for some socialist/unpatriotic/mullah lover subtext?

One would need to be rather silly indeed to assume that a political pundit of any bent is likely to organise such a high-profile event without there being some subtext. The cotemporaneous Reclaim the Dream rally was no doubt similarly politicised, although I am having a harder time finding coverage or details to offer any concrete criticism.
It's one thing to presume a pundit has a political agenda, it's another to imply that agenda is based on an evil motivation like racism.

I agree with G2 that smearing Beck as a racist is sticking him with one of the stock insults liberals use for conservatives. However it's not the kind of thing that conservatives don't do themselves, they just have a different set of insults.

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