Ornery.org
  Front Page   |   About Ornery.org   |   World Watch   |   Guest Essays   |   Contact Us

The Ornery American Forum Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Planned Parenthood exposed (Page 1)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 15 pages: 1  2  3  4  ...  13  14  15   
Author Topic: Planned Parenthood exposed
G2
unregistered


 - posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
A group called Live Action sent in a undercover reporter who posed as a pimp employing underage girls as young as 14 and 15. His goal was to get these girls setup for abortions, STD treatment, etc:
quote:
A Planned Parenthood manager in New Jersey coaches a man and a woman posing as sex traffickers how to secure secret abortions, STD testing, and contraception for their female underage sex slaves, and make their whole operation “look as legit as possible” in an undercover video released this morning.
So PP not only helped but also provided advice on how to make it appear legitimate. Live Action has exposed other PP offices with the same undercover approach:
quote:
• Falls Church – Abortions for underage girls from other countries only require a photo ID.

Planned Parenthood staffer: “We don’t necessarily look at the legal status, like I said. Abortion appointments do require photo ID. It’s nothing as far as records. It’s just photo ID that’s ever going to be required.”

• Roanoke – Birth control and STD testing for underage prostitutes is no problem

Planned Parenthood staffer: “From the age of 12 up, for birth control, you can just come in and do that. You don’t have to have a parent, OK?”

Planned Parenthood staffer discussing STD testing: “And the thing is, see this is the thing a lot of people don’t know that. . .Right, through the Health Department. And so, they’ll uh, they’ll track it. And they’re discreet. They’re confidential. They, you know, don’t tell people what’s going on, because – frankly – it’s nobody’s business.”

• Charlottesville – Birth control and testing for STDs and pregnancy for underage girls with no questions asked.

Planned Parenthood staffer: “Anybody here can help you. Everything here is confidential. We can’t give any information out.”

Yeah, great. Sexual exploitation of children is all cool at Planned Parenthood, they'll even help you keep it on the down low so it looks legitimate - what about pimping out children could even remotely look legitimate? I guess you just really have to love abortion enough that nothing else matters.

PP's response:
quote:
We were profoundly shocked when we viewed the videotape released this morning, which depicted an employee of one of our health centers behaving in a repugnant manner that is inconsistent with our standards of care and is completely unacceptable," Phyllis Kinsler, chief of Planned Parenthood of New Jersey, said in a statement. "The employee in the video was immediately suspended from her duties this morning and was terminated this evening."
Shocked! However, the pattern is well established. They're shocked they got caught ... again. That's all. Throw a few under the bus, try to manage the PR.

[ February 04, 2011, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: G2 ]

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pyrtolin
Member
Member # 2638

 - posted      Profile for Pyrtolin   Email Pyrtolin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Of course PP also contacted the FBI to have them investigate the prostitution angle. Aside from that this is pretty much empty outrage over the fact that they provided essential health services to people that needed those services

If you go into an ER with a gunshot wound, the ER docs aren't going to ask who shot you as a precondition to treating you.

Posts: 11997 | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
G2
unregistered


 - posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yet in one tape they have the manager enthusiastically advising how to avoid legal detection. So PP says something, and that's your reality. PP does something, that's actual reality.

quote:
Originally posted by Pyrtolin:
If you go into an ER with a gunshot wound, the ER docs aren't going to ask who shot you as a precondition to treating you.

This is a bad analogy that only confuses the reality, abortion is not generally an emergent procedure nor is STD treatment. None of the alleged underage girls went in for treatment.

This was a pimp that went in for help to plan abortions and STD treatment for children and got that help.

[ February 04, 2011, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: G2 ]

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 99

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ooo! Undercover pimps putting out edited tapes of them lying to social services agencies! It's like 2008 all over again!
Posts: 22935 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
G2
unregistered


 - posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
Ooo! Undercover pimps putting out edited tapes of them lying to social services agencies! It's like 2008 all over again!

Nope, the tapes are fully released in unedited format. You can see it all, in context. Nice try though.
IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pyrtolin
Member
Member # 2638

 - posted      Profile for Pyrtolin   Email Pyrtolin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Not how to avoid legal detection, how to get girls medical treatment they need. And of course they don't talk about how the manager then proceeded to report the guy to investigators in case he wasn't just trolling.
Posts: 11997 | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 99

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
See, my point hinged on the whole "undercover pimps trying to 'sting' service agencies" crap. But you're welcome to worry about the unimportant part. [Smile]
Posts: 22935 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Aris Katsaris
Member
Member # 888

 - posted      Profile for Aris Katsaris   Email Aris Katsaris   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Did PP contact the police, G2, yes or no? That should be independently verifiable.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/01/AR2011020106135.html?hpid=moreheadlines

"At least 12 clinics in six states received visits in January by men claiming to be engaged in sex trafficking, according to Planned Parenthood. In each case, the clinic's staff notified federal and local authorities."

So in short, Planned Parenthood behaved as it should in every case, while your undercover pimps had to go to more than a dozen clinics in atleast 6 states before they managed to discover an employee that behaved inappropriately.

Do you know the words "selective reporting"?

Posts: 3318 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Daruma28
Member
Member # 1388

 - posted      Profile for Daruma28   Email Daruma28   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
G2, will you please stop attacking Planned Parenthood!?!

Don't you understand how beneficial they've been for the invaluable service they have provided in furthering the goals of the Arayan Nation, the White Power Militia Movement and the likes of Stormfront.org?

WHITE POWER!!!!!!

Posts: 7543 | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 99

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yeah, you know what? I know a lot of people who have, at one point or another, worked for Planned Parenthood, and not one of them has done so in order to reduce the number of non-whites out there.
Posts: 22935 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Daruma28
Member
Member # 1388

 - posted      Profile for Daruma28   Email Daruma28   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hence the term: useful idiots. [LOL]
Posts: 7543 | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
RickyB
Member
Member # 1464

 - posted      Profile for RickyB   Email RickyB   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It's fascinating how Daruma claims to be post-partisan, to detest both liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans to the same extent - yet reserves his venom solely for one side. I guess the old Bush dittohead Daruma is still around...

Yeah, Margaret Sanger was a eugenicist. This is true. The GOP also used to be the black-friendlier party. Things change.

Posts: 19145 | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 99

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, to be fair, Daruma still hates feminists and rails against anything he associates with feminism. I imagine the latter is more to the point here than the former.
Posts: 22935 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Daruma28
Member
Member # 1388

 - posted      Profile for Daruma28   Email Daruma28   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
http://www.lifeissues.org/connector/display.asp?page=05oct.htm

quote:
Margaret Sanger’s legacy to society is represented and promoted today by Planned Parenthood. For years, pro-life leaders have insisted that Planned Parenthood has targeted African Americans for abortion by placing their abortion facilities in black communities. Two separate studies relying on Census 2000 statistics verify that this claim is indeed supported by the data. Randy Hall of CNSNews published results of the first study in a Feb. 7, 2005 article, “Abortion Causing ‘Black Genocide,’ Activists Say.”7 Although Planned Parenthood does not provide a comprehensive list of its abortion facilities, Hall obtained the locations of 160 US Planned Parenthood abortion outlets from the website of Stop Planned Parenthood (STOPP) International. Hall compared the percentage of African Americans in the cities where these facilities were located to the percentage of African Americans living in that particular state. The results showed that 62.5% of these Planned Parenthood facilities were located in cities having a higher black percentage than the state.

In a separate study, initiated by Life Issues Institute, a similar set of Planned Parenthood abortion facilities that existed in 2002-2003 was obtained from Life Dynamics, Inc., an investigative pro-life organization. This set included 151 Planned Parenthood abortion outlets and their locations in the United States. Using Census 2000 Summary File 1, each facility location was analyzed for the percentage of African American residents within one-, three- and five-mile radiuses of the facility, respectively. The percentages within the appropriate abortion facility radiuses were compared to the African American percentage of the city where the facility was located. This would determine if there was any indication that the facility was placed in a more predominantly black neighborhood. In addition, the radius and city percentages were compared to the state percentage to see if either of these was higher than the state overall. Using this set of criteria, 60% of the abortion facilities had surrounding black populations that were measurably higher than either the city or the state average. Significantly, 34% of the facilities had a black population more than 5 percentage points higher than the surrounding city or state. Considering that African Americans comprise only 12.3% of the national population, this is a notable variance.


Posts: 7543 | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 99

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Can you think of no reason why the locations of reproductive planning clinics intended to provide services to the poor correlate strongly to locations populated by the poorest American demographic?
Posts: 22935 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Daruma28
Member
Member # 1388

 - posted      Profile for Daruma28   Email Daruma28   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Tom...your intellectual honesty and sense of fairness with regards to myself is unexpected and commendable. [Smile]

Ricky - Things change, eh?

Instead of just outright saying it was designed to reduce the black population, they couch it in friendly PC language...but keep doing it. Which is why most facilities are located close to minority communities.

You're so hung up on "left" vs. "right." I care not for your obsession with choosing sides. I only care for observable truth.

Oh, and **** the right wing too. When they had Bush and a GOP majority congress and the chance to nominate some justices to potentially overturn R vs.W, they paid lip service to the base and did nothing substantial.

Right vs. Left is meaningless on the abortion debate. Both have been co-opted to ensure the status quo and black genocide continues.

Posts: 7543 | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Daruma28
Member
Member # 1388

 - posted      Profile for Daruma28   Email Daruma28   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
Can you think of no reason why the locations of reproductive planning clinics intended to provide services to the poor correlate strongly to locations populated by the poorest American demographic?

Sure, I could think about it. But why bother when you can read the words of the people like Sanger who founded the organization and promoted it?

I'll take her at her word. At least she was honest and forthright about what she and her cohorts at the ABCL intended.

Posts: 7543 | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wayward Son
Member
Member # 210

 - posted      Profile for Wayward Son   Email Wayward Son   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If you want to talk about "useful idiots," Daruma, you should talk about any White Supremacists who support Planned Parenthood to decrease the black population.

Black populations have been steadily growing along with their median incomes.

(Also note that, according to the site, the only significant rural black populations are in the South. Which means that "62.5% of these Planned Parenthood facilities were located in cities having a higher black percentage than the state" is entirely unsuprising, since most major cities would have higher black populations than the overall state. [Roll Eyes] )

If anyone thinks Planned Parenthood is hurting the black population, they really are "idiots." [LOL]

Posts: 8681 | Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Daruma28
Member
Member # 1388

 - posted      Profile for Daruma28   Email Daruma28   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Wayward...you're clueless. You're not even useful if you are gonna rely on such a dumb argument. You completely failed to comprehend that I was really just being facetious and sarcastic about how abortion furthers the aims of White supremacists, merely to highlight the intent of the founders of PP.

But that went right over your head. [Roll Eyes]

I'll stick to the basic facts so as not to confuse you:

1)The founder of Planned Parenthood was quite open in her reasoning.

2) The majority of Planned Parenthood clinics in this country are located near black (and other minority) communities.

3) Black abortions are a disproportionate amount of abortions performed in comparison to the total population.

The fact that black demographics are increasing does not mitigate any of that.

Posts: 7543 | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MattP
Member
Member # 2763

 - posted      Profile for MattP   Email MattP   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
1) Genetic fallacy

2) Many social service agencies are going to be located near black and minority communities because those communities are the most likely to be unable to afford the services otherwise. I would bet you'll also find YMCAs more prevalent in poor/minority communities than elsewhere.

3) Again, correlates with income/education, not race.

Posts: 3481 | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wayward Son
Member
Member # 210

 - posted      Profile for Wayward Son   Email Wayward Son   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Wayward...you're clueless. You're not even useful if you are gonna rely on such a dumb argument. You completely failed to comprehend that I was really just being facetious and sarcastic about how abortion furthers the aims of White supremacists, merely to highlight the intent of the founders of PP.
Considering how much you've argued over the current intent of the organization, it's hard to know how facetious you are being.

Fortunately it is obvious to even the most disinterested participant that the current aims of PP do not in any way coincide with your stated aims of the founder. (Your points 2 and 3 are easily explained by the rates of black poverty and the concentration of black populations, so they are totally unconvincing.) So bringing up the founder is merely sarcastic, and silly.

You have you clues, Daruma, but your addition is so bad they amount to nothing.

Posts: 8681 | Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Daruma28
Member
Member # 1388

 - posted      Profile for Daruma28   Email Daruma28   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Margaret Sanger quotes:

quote:
"The most merciful thing that a family does to one of its infant members is to kill it."
Margaret Sanger (editor). The Woman Rebel, Volume I, Number 1. Reprinted in Woman and the New Race. New York: Brentanos Publishers, 1922.

"Birth control must lead ultimately to a cleaner race."
Margaret Sanger. Woman, Morality, and Birth Control. New York: New York Publishing Company, 1922. Page 12.

"We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don't want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population. and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members."
Margaret Sanger's December 19, 1939 letter to Dr. Clarence Gamble, 255 Adams Street, Milton, Massachusetts. Original source: Sophia Smith Collection, Smith College, North Hampton, Massachusetts. Also described in Linda Gordon's Woman's Body, Woman's Right: A Social History of Birth Control in America. New York: Grossman Publishers, 1976.

"Eugenic sterilization is an urgent need ... We must prevent multiplication of this bad stock."
Margaret Sanger, April 1933 Birth Control Review.

"Eugenics is … the most adequate and thorough avenue to the solution of racial, political and social problems.
Margaret Sanger. "The Eugenic Value of Birth Control Propaganda." Birth Control Review, October 1921, page 5.

"Birth control itself, often denounced as a violation of natural law, is nothing more or less than the facilitation of the process of weeding out the unfit, of preventing the birth of defectives or of those who will become defectives."
[no source available at this time...]

As an advocate of birth control I wish ... to point out that the unbalance between the birth rate of the 'unfit' and the 'fit,' admittedly the greatest present menace to civilization, can never be rectified by the inauguration of a cradle competition between these two classes. In this matter, the example of the inferior classes, the fertility of the feeble-minded, the mentally defective, the poverty-stricken classes, should not be held up for emulation....
On the contrary, the most urgent problem today is how to limit and discourage the over-fertility of the mentally and physically defective.
Margaret Sanger. "The Eugenic Value of Birth Control Propaganda." Birth Control Review, October 1921, page 5.

"The campaign for birth control is not merely of eugenic value, but is practically identical with the final aims of eugenics."
Margaret Sanger. "The Eugenic Value of Birth Control Propaganda." Birth Control Review, October 1921, page 5.

"Our failure to segregate morons who are increasing and multiplying ... demonstrates our foolhardy and extravagant sentimentalism ... [Philanthropists] encourage the healthier and more normal sections of the world to shoulder the burden of unthinking and indiscriminate fecundity of others; which brings with it, as I think the reader must agree, a dead weight of human waste. Instead of decreasing and aiming to eliminate the stocks that are most detrimental to the future of the race and the world, it tends to render them to a menacing degree dominant ... We are paying for, and even submitting to, the dictates of an ever-increasing, unceasingly spawning class of human beings who never should have been born at all."
Margaret Sanger. The Pivot of Civilization, 1922. Chapter on "The Cruelty of Charity," pages 116, 122, and 189. Swarthmore College Library edition.

"The undeniably feeble-minded should, indeed, not only be discouraged but prevented from propagating their kind."
Margaret Sanger, quoted in Charles Valenza. "Was Margaret Sanger a Racist?" Family Planning Perspectives, January-February 1985, page 44.

"The third group [of society] are those irresponsible and reckless ones having little regard for the consequences of their acts, or whose religious scruples prevent their exercising control over their numbers. Many of this group are diseased, feeble-minded, and are of the pauper element dependent upon the normal and fit members of society for their support. There is no doubt in the minds of all thinking people that the procreation of this group should be stopped."
Margaret Sanger. Speech quoted in Birth Control: What It Is, How It Works, What It Will Do. The Proceedings of the First American Birth Control Conference. Held at the Hotel Plaza, New York City, November 11-12, 1921. Published by the Birth Control Review, Gothic Press, pages 172 and 174.

"The marriage bed is the most degenerative influence in the social order..."
Margaret Sanger (editor). The Woman Rebel, Volume I, Number 1. Reprinted in Woman and the New Race. New York: Brentanos Publishers, 1922.

"[Our objective is] unlimited sexual gratification without the burden of unwanted children..."
Margaret Sanger (editor). The Woman Rebel, Volume I, Number 1. Reprinted in Woman and the New Race. New York: Brentanos Publishers, 1922.

"Give dysgenic groups [people with 'bad genes'] in our population their choice of segregation or [compulsory] sterilization."
Margaret Sanger, April 1932 Birth Control Review.

"As we celebrate the 100th birthday of Margaret Sanger, our outrageous and our courageous leader, we will probably find a number of areas in which we may find more about Margaret Sanger than we thought we wanted to know..."
Faye Wattleton, Past-president of Planned Parenthood

Margaret Sanger, Founder of Planned Parenthood, proposed the American Baby Code that states, "No woman shall have the legal right to bear a child… without a permit for parenthood".

Margaret Sanger, Founder of Planned Parenthood, proposed the Population Congress with the aim, "...to give certain dysgenic groups in our population their choice of segregation or sterilization."

So Matt and Wayward, we have your speculative assertion that PP clinics are only near black communities because black communities are poor...

...and we have the founder of the organization openly stating the motivation and goals of Planned Parenthood.

Keep telling yourselves whatever it is you do to avoid cognitive dissonance.

Planned Parenthood was and is a eugenics organization.

Posts: 7543 | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wayward Son
Member
Member # 210

 - posted      Profile for Wayward Son   Email Wayward Son   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yep, and the word "gay" means happy, because things don't change over time.

You as so gay, Daruma. [Big Grin]

Posts: 8681 | Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 99

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
What influence do you believe Margaret Sanger has on the placement of Planned Parenthood clinics, Daruma?
Posts: 22935 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pyrtolin
Member
Member # 2638

 - posted      Profile for Pyrtolin   Email Pyrtolin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So, of that list of quotes, only one actually refers to blacks, and that's in the context of preventing misinformation from spreading precisely because she was trying to distinguish herself from people that were actually pushing for the elimination of blacks. And you fall into a correlation/causation trap on the placement of PP clinics. They're placed for the best access to the larges populations that need their services; near the urban poor. It's only coincidental that urban poor populations happen to be primarily black, not a direct motivation for placement.

There's lots of sure evidence that she strongly believed in eugenics (though is should be noted also that she was firmly opposed to abortion on moral grounds, instead promoting birth control and, in cases of infirmity, insanity, or retardation, sterilization). There's also plenty of evidence of xenophobia due to her anti-immigration stances, but the primary focus of her efforts were on alleviating poverty and limiting one of the key contributing factors to poverty- having an unsustainable number of children. The fact that this ended up encompassing mostly blacks was because blacks make up the greater portion of urban poor.

To get to the conclusion the she was trying to eliminate blacks, you have to completely ignore her express statements about promoting birth control to remove one of the key contributing factors to poverty, thus better enabling people to escape it and then be able to afford to have children. You have to take completely out of context her statements regarding eliminating inferior genes, which were made in reference to retardation, genetic diseases, and the like. And you have to start from the preconception that it is an inherent genetic factor that makes blacks represent the greater portion of the urban poor and then project that believe onto her, despite a complete lack of evidence for that link.

It's fully possible that she did actually harbor such attitudes, but it's also equally clear that the driving philosophy that she used in managing PP was to help people to escape poverty by giving them the tools they needed to avoid having children until they were financially prepared to support them. Whatever personal racial bigotry she might have harbored, she kept it to herself on all matters aside from immigration.

Posts: 11997 | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DonaldD
Member
Member # 1052

 - posted      Profile for DonaldD   Email DonaldD   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Pyrtolin:
 Whatever personal racial bigotry she might have harbored, she kept it to herself on all matters aside from immigration.

Did Sanger even display racial bigotry in her immigration policies?  In which of her writings?
Posts: 10751 | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Daruma28
Member
Member # 1388

 - posted      Profile for Daruma28   Email Daruma28   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oh Pyrtolin, it's so amusing to see you jump through the hoops of rationalizations and justifications since you are obviously a supporter of Planned Parenthoods ideological premises.

I'm sure you would go to similar great lengths to explain away any troublesome quotations from Republican/Conservative/Pro-life proponents!

[Exploding]

@ Wayward - not funny. I didn't realize you were homophobic. Shame on you.

[LOL] [LOL] [LOL]

Look people, I'm not trying to say "pro-choice" equals "racist, eugenecist!"

But it is rather interesting to note the tendency to minimize/rationalize or explain away Margaret Sanger's explicit attitudes and motivations, when she spoke rather plainly about her beliefs.

[DOH]

Posts: 7543 | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
RickyB
Member
Member # 1464

 - posted      Profile for RickyB   Email RickyB   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I love it when someone brings up something "horribly damning", the other side calmly admits the historic facts but counters the implications as to current policy, and then the first guy brays "it is rather interesting to note the tendency to minimize/rationalize or explain away....[whatever it is]"

You played your huge trump. It was easily parried. We're not ignoring it. We admitted the basic facts (Margaret Sanger was a eugenicist with racist attitudes). You're ignoring that it's not the winner you thought it was, any more than Prescott Bush being a proven nazi sympathizer said anything about his grandson.

Posts: 19145 | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Gaoics79
Member
Member # 969

 - posted      Profile for Gaoics79   Email Gaoics79   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If we accept Daruma's interpretation of Sanger's motives, and Ricky et al.'s interpretation of Planned Parenthood's current motives, the same policy may be equally serving both sides. The question is: Do the policies in question serve the goals of one or the other? Or can it be both? Is today's Planned Parenthood a dupe for the legacy of racist eugenicist, or has the racist eugenicist's legacy been subverted into something antithetical to her aims?

The interesting thing about this debate is that neither side's position is really all that inconsistent with the other's.

Makes my head spin [Smile]

Posts: 7629 | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 99

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
The interesting thing about this debate is that neither side's position is really all that inconsistent with the other's.
Yeah, I was just going to observe that it's not actually an "either/or" scenario. It is possible that Planned Parenthood is to some extent artificially depressing the minority population (although, frankly, I don't think it is doing so appreciably, and definitely not in the way Sanger hoped), and providing a useful service to people who want more say over when they have children (either through abortion or birth control.)

(I have to note here that, despite being generally opposed to abortion, I am hugely in favor of Planned Parenthood's policy of making subsidized birth control -- in a variety of surgical, pharmaceutical, and mechanical forms -- available to everyone.)

Posts: 22935 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JWatts
Member
Member # 6523

 - posted      Profile for JWatts   Email JWatts   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
(I have to note here that, despite being generally opposed to abortion, I am hugely in favor of Planned Parenthood's policy of making subsidized birth control -- in a variety of surgical, pharmaceutical, and mechanical forms -- available to everyone.)

I agree with that sentiment. Subsidized birth control is a form of socialism of which I'm firmly in favor. It has a very high return for the dollars invested.

[ February 07, 2011, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: JWatts ]

Posts: 4700 | Registered: Oct 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TheRallanator
Member
Member # 6624

 - posted      Profile for TheRallanator   Email TheRallanator       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
What influence do you believe Margaret Sanger has on the placement of Planned Parenthood clinics, Daruma?

She's a feminazi, and they're providing feminazi services. If you can't connect the dots and get a picture that says NWO then you're just another one of the sheeple [Big Grin]
Posts: 503 | Registered: Oct 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DonaldD
Member
Member # 1052

 - posted      Profile for DonaldD   Email DonaldD   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Knock it off with your ovine fantasies, Rallan...
Posts: 10751 | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
G2
unregistered


 - posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
New video release, this time from a NY office:
quote:
Prostitute: They just came over, they’re workin’ with us, and we’re helpin’ them out –

Parenthood Planned Staffer: Mhm

Prostitute: Just keeping them safe.

Pimp: Could we even sign off as guardians? Could we even sign off as a guardian, is that even possible?

Planned Parenthood Staffer: If you were writing the support letter, yeah, you could say –

Prostitute: Oh good

Planned Parenthood Staffer: that you take care of them, you support them.

Pimp: Cool!

Planned Parenthood Staffer: But nothing here, like, our patients, we don’t ask for guardian’s signature. Everything is the patient. Like a thirteen-year-old could come in and get the services she needed, by herself.

Pimp: So, how would you recommend for them best to do it? Cause we don’t want them getting confused or what not, and it’s kind of a sensitive subject, so we don’t want you know, them saying the wrong thing, you know getting refused or turned away, so how would you suggest they go about you know being able to get the access even in spite of what they do, you know?

Planned Parenthood Staffer: Yeah, like, like I said everything’s confidential, they don’t have to tell anybody what it is that they do when they make the an appointment, it’s just gonna be between them and the Physician they see.

Walking the pimp through the process of getting his 13 and 14 year old sex slaves abortions.

Reading this thread and damn, some of you people really love abortions.

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
RickyB
Member
Member # 1464

 - posted      Profile for RickyB   Email RickyB   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"Reading this thread and damn, some of you people really love abortions. "

Only for your mama, but too late for that.

Posts: 19145 | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JWatts
Member
Member # 6523

 - posted      Profile for JWatts   Email JWatts   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That statements pretty outrageous RickyB.
Posts: 4700 | Registered: Oct 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pyrtolin
Member
Member # 2638

 - posted      Profile for Pyrtolin   Email Pyrtolin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Walking the pimp through the process of getting his 13 and 14 year old sex slaves abortions.
In other words, making sure that kids get the care they need to prevent even worse damage to their lives, while reporting the abusers to the proper authorities so that there's some hope of rescuing them from the overall situation.

Seriously, all it seems like you're saying here is that the theoretical girls don't deserve critical health services.

Posts: 11997 | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pyrtolin
Member
Member # 2638

 - posted      Profile for Pyrtolin   Email Pyrtolin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by JWatts:
That statements pretty outrageous RickyB.

I'll agree there. It doesn't help anything to drop to that level.
Posts: 11997 | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MattP
Member
Member # 2763

 - posted      Profile for MattP   Email MattP   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
G2,

What do you believe the correct response should have been? How would you have responded in the same circumstances in a way which have resulted in improved circumstances for these girls?

Posts: 3481 | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Adam Masterman
Member
Member # 1142

 - posted      Profile for Adam Masterman   Email Adam Masterman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by JWatts:
That statements pretty outrageous RickyB.

Agreed, but so was what he was responding to. The more G2 breaks the rules here without consequence, the more people are going to start responding in kind. You should direct your complaints to the mod.
Posts: 4823 | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 15 pages: 1  2  3  4  ...  13  14  15   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
UBB Code™ Images not permitted.
Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Ornery.org Front Page

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.1