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Author Topic: Planned Parenthood exposed
JWatts
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I think they should have immediately called the cops. They most certainly should not have coached them on how to get around the rules.

And since they fired the staffer in question, I don't think there is any doubt that the staffer was in the wrong.

quote:
Live Action also filmed Planned Parenthood staff helping sex traffickers in New Jersey and the nurse who aided the alleged traffickers there has already been fired and the state health department is looking into the problems further.
quote:
Planned Parenthood’s Vice President Stuart Schear said that, “There is no training that could prevent this from happening. This was a complete breakdown in judgment. We don’t understand what happened with this employee.’”
Furthermore, Planned Parenthood has implicitly admitted their staff was improperly trained:

quote:
Officials at the abortion centers should have shown great concern about the potentially illegal activities and immediately reported them to authorities. Because that was not done, Planned Parenthood said Monday it would retrain thousands of staff people across the country in the proper procedures for dealing with sex traffickers in the future. The abortion business also said it would fire any staffers violating those procedures.
Link

It looks like Planned Parenthood was engaged in widespread illegal activities and they are now responding to this with retraining thousands of their staff to be in compliance with the law.

If you are confronted with a child sex slave, you call the cops and get the slave away from the slaver! You don't advise the slaver on the best way to beat the system.

You guys sound like some KKK members from the 1920's, rationalizing plantations as places designed to look after the poor benighted negroes who weren't capable of looking after themselves.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
I think they should have immediately called the cops. They most certainly should not have coached them on how to get around the rules.
How do you believe they should have kept the fake slaver on the premises while they called the cops?
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JWatts
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
I think they should have immediately called the cops. They most certainly should not have coached them on how to get around the rules.
How do you believe they should have kept the fake slaver on the premises while they called the cops?
[DOH]
Why should they even have to try? If a known child kidnapper walks into a restaurant, you call the cops. Maybe you try to detain him if you think it won't endanger the kid, but you certainly don't sell him a meal, advise him on the best way to avoid the road block up ahead and recommend that he stick the kid in the truck so no one else notices.

I would have stopped the process immediately. Called building security. Then, told the pimp that underage prostitution is illegal, pimping is illegal and what he was describing sounded a lot like slavery. If he ran, then when the cops showed up they would have gotten my testimony and could then go look at the buildings security camera footage.

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TomDavidson
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And this is why Republicans are bad at social services. [Smile]
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OpsanusTau
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quote:
I have to note here that, despite being generally opposed to abortion, I am hugely in favor of Planned Parenthood's policy of making subsidized birth control -- in a variety of surgical, pharmaceutical, and mechanical forms -- available to everyone.
As well as their policy of providing pregnancy testing and prenatal care to under-served populations.
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G2
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
And this is why Republicans are bad at social services. [Smile]

And that is why democrats destroy the heart and soul of people. [Smile]
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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by JWatts:
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
I think they should have immediately called the cops. They most certainly should not have coached them on how to get around the rules.
How do you believe they should have kept the fake slaver on the premises while they called the cops?
[DOH]
Why should they even have to try? If a known child kidnapper walks into a restaurant, you call the cops. Maybe you try to detain him if you think it won't endanger the kid, but you certainly don't sell him a meal, advise him on the best way to avoid the road block up ahead and recommend that he stick the kid in the truck so no one else notices.


Wait- you wouldn't serve him a meal, despite that being the best way to keep him in one place lone enough for the cops to show up?

And the rest of your comparison is completely false. It would be better to say that you wouldn't serve the kid a glass of water while the kid was in his company despite the fact that the kid is obviously nearly completely dehydrated. PP didn't tell him anything about how to avoid being caught running a prostitution ring, only about how get proper medical care for girls that needed it.

quote:
I would have stopped the process immediately. Called building security.
And right there set up yourself for liability for civil rights violations because your security wouldn't have any right to do anything but ask him to leave. Private security doesn't have the authority to arrest or detain anyone.

quote:
Then, told the pimp that underage prostitution is illegal, pimping is illegal and what he was describing sounded a lot like slavery. If he ran, then when the cops showed up they would have gotten my testimony and could then go look at the buildings security camera footage.
And meanwhile, the pimp has gone to ground and doesn't let the girls go anywhere near the medical services they need.

In your actions, not only do the girls go untreated, but you've just completely squandered your ability to actually help serve as a useful element of a sting operation against such activity, and perhaps opened up a loophole to get the case dismissed on a technicality.

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JWatts
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quote:
Originally posted by Pyrtolin:
quote:

If a known child kidnapper walks into a restaurant, you call the cops. Maybe you try to detain him if you think it won't endanger the kid, but you certainly don't sell him a meal, advise him on the best way to avoid the road block up ahead and recommend that he stick the kid in the truck so no one else notices.

Wait- you wouldn't serve him a meal, despite that being the best way to keep him in one place lone enough for the cops to show up?

And the rest of your comparison is completely false. It would be better to say that you wouldn't serve the kid a glass of water while the kid was in his company despite the fact that the kid is obviously nearly completely dehydrated. PP didn't tell him anything about how to avoid being caught running a prostitution ring, only about how get proper medical care for girls that needed it.

[Confused] Yes, I would feed him a meal if it gave time for the cops to show up.

No, she didn't give him advice on how to run a prostitution ring , she did give him advice on how to appear legit. (In other words, how to avoid the authorities). And she was fired for this advice.

quote:
Originally posted by Pyrtolin:
quote:
I would have stopped the process immediately. Called building security.
And right there set up yourself for liability for civil rights violations because your security wouldn't have any right to do anything but ask him to leave. Private security doesn't have the authority to arrest or detain anyone.

Wrong! That's just factually wrong. If the building has a licensed security officer then they certainly can arrest you.

quote:
Originally posted by Pyrtolin:
And meanwhile, the pimp has gone to ground and doesn't let the girls go anywhere near the medical services they need.

[Roll Eyes] So of course, you would just recommend letting the pimp have all his 13 year old girls go through with the abortions, because it's better to spend your childhood as a sex slave than risk an unwanted pregnancy?


quote:
Originally posted by Pyrtolin:
In your actions, not only do the girls go untreated, but you've just completely squandered your ability to actually help serve as a useful element of a sting operation against such activity, and perhaps opened up a loophole to get the case dismissed on a technicality.

And if the pimp never comes back? I would much rather risk the pimp getting freed on a technicality and immediately stop the harm to the children than hope the cops can catch him later.
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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by JWatts:
WNo, she didn't give him advice on how to run a prostitution ring , she did give him advice on how to appear legit. (In other words, how to avoid the authorities). And she was fired for this advice.


No, she gave advice on how to get service at a PP facility, absolutely nothing to do with avoiding legal authorities. Especially because she then raised a red flag to said authorities. The only thing she advised him around was bureaucratic red tape designed to prevent people from getting services; he'd already tripped the part of the system that resulted in legal authorities being notified.

quote:
Wrong! That's just factually wrong. If the building has a licensed security officer then they certainly can arrest you.
In PA, all that means is that they can carry a gun. They're still private citizens, and unless the local county or municipality has made a specific allowance, they're limited to the same rules as a private citizen as far as actually having to witness a felony to make a Citizen's Arrest.

quote:
So of course, you would just recommend letting the pimp have all his 13 year old girls go through with the abortions, because it's better to spend your childhood as a sex slave than risk an unwanted pregnancy?
As opposed to being a sex slave that's additionally trapped by unwanted pregnancy, and eventually having a child that the pimp can use for additional leverage? You expect that he's some how going to let her go just because she's sick or pregnant? And again, the legal authorities were notified, so no one was actually allowing him to continue, only making sure that, in the mean time, at least some basic measure of protection was given to the girls.


quote:
And if the pimp never comes back? I would much rather risk the pimp getting freed on a technicality and immediately stop the harm to the children than hope the cops can catch him later.
If he never comes back, then that's no worse than the best you can hope for if you try to catch him yourself. At least you can provide credible evidence against him. Even if you manage to get him picked up there on the spot, you haven't actually protected any children as they're still out there, just pushed off to the next abuser to find them and take over.
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TomDavidson
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quote:
No, she didn't give him advice on how to run a prostitution ring , she did give him advice on how to appear legit.
Read the transcripts again.
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jasonr
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quote:
As opposed to being a sex slave that's additionally trapped by unwanted pregnancy, and eventually having a child that the pimp can use for additional leverage? You expect that he's some how going to let her go just because she's sick or pregnant? And again, the legal authorities were notified, so no one was actually allowing him to continue, only making sure that, in the mean time, at least some basic measure of protection was given to the girls.
[Eek!] Really? You wouldn't detain someone with a child sex slave if it was in your power to do so? I mean okay, if you're just a private citizen on the street and you don't think you can detain him safely that's one thing. But you have armed security on hand and you'd just let the guy walk out the door with his child sex slave?!

I get the argument that doing so would risk other pimps running to ground and destroy the ability of the clinic to provide medical care to child prostitutes. I don't really understand the logic that says that this is better for this specific girl to be allowed to walk out the door with her pimp.

As for lawsuits, let the pimp sue you. Let the child sex slaver bring a claim against you for false imprisonment. That's what liability insurance is for. Let the scumbag find a lawyer to represent him and break his teeth on your insurance company.

[ February 08, 2011, 08:38 PM: Message edited by: jasonr ]

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TomDavidson
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Try proving he's a slaver. All he needs to do is claim he was filming you for a sting operation.
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jasonr
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quote:
Try proving he's a slaver. All he needs to do is claim he was filming you for a sting operation.
I'd say him showing up with an underage girl who is not related to him and claiming to be her pimp is pretty suggestive. And if he claims it's a sting operation, then he's admitting that he gave you justification to suspect he was a pimp.

The burden is on him to prove his case.

I think if anyone were stupid enough to bring a lawsuit like that they'd be torn to shreds and risk drawing alot of unwanted attention on their lives.

If it were me, I'd take the risk of having to pay the deductible on my liability insurance policy if it meant the chance of saving a child sex slave.

[ February 08, 2011, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: jasonr ]

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TomDavidson
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*sigh* I hate to say this, but have you ever known any underage prostitutes? Confronting this guy in a clinic has a vanishingly small chance of successfully freeing the girl with him. It's all very well and good to play cowboy, but surely it's better to effectively work to improve her situation.
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jasonr
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quote:
*sigh* I hate to say this, but have you ever known any underage prostitutes? Confronting this guy in a clinic has a vanishingly small chance of successfully freeing the girl with him. It's all very well and good to play cowboy, but surely it's better to effectively work to improve her situation.
I guess I'm naive but can't she just be forcibly taken away from him and put in foster care? Does she even get a say in the matter?
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TomDavidson
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Forcibly taken away by whom?
I think you're seriously overstating the ability of this secretary to array forces against this guy and his teenage accomplice.

You let them leave after making an appointment, then inform the police. Throwing down in the lobby of your clinic does no one any good.

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JWatts
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
No, she didn't give him advice on how to run a prostitution ring , she did give him advice on how to appear legit.
Read the transcripts again.
Actually, I have read the transcripts.

quote:
AMY WOODRUFF, CLINIC MANAGER: “If they come in for pregnancy testing, um, s**t, at that point I’d still be. You never got this from me. Just to make all our lives easier. If they’re fourteen and under just send them right there if they need an abortion. Okay?”

And when the man acting as a pimp asked about birth control…

AMY WOODRUFF, CLINIC MANAGER: “Here’s the thing, too. If they’re minors, just tell them to put down that they’re students. Just..”
FAKE PIMP: “Students.”
AMY WOODRUFF, CLINIC MANAGER: “Yeah. Just kinda play along that they’re students. We want to make it look as legit’ as possible.”

Transcript


quote:
Originally posted by Pyrtolin:
quote:
Wrong! That's just factually wrong. If the building has a licensed security officer then they certainly can arrest you.
In PA, all that means is that they can carry a gun. They're still private citizens, and unless the local county or municipality has made a specific allowance, they're limited to the same rules as a private citizen as far as actually having to witness a felony to make a Citizen's Arrest.

First, this video was from New Jersey, so PA law is pretty irrelevant. Second, I said arrest which is wrong. I meant detain. A licensed security officer can detain criminals and not just in the cases of observed felonies. Security officers search and detain shop lifters all the time. Even in cases where they didn't personally observe the activity.

[ February 09, 2011, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: JWatts ]

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Pyrtolin
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quote:
. Security officers search and detain shop lifters all the time
That's because people who are unaware of their legal rights allow them to, not because they actually have the right to detain anyone that hasn't explicitly been detected shoplifting. (In NJ Licensing requires 24 hours of training and is a basic prerequisite to be a security guard at all, it doesn't grant any special powers)

Here's the relevant part of NJ law. Reasonable suspicion creates a limited power to detain; it's not a natural ability of security guards:

quote:
When someone commits an act of shoplifting, it gives rise to certain rights on behalf of the storekeeper. In certain situations, it may be rightful for the storekeeper to detain a shopper he suspects of theft. When a shopkeeper, security guard, or police officer has probable cause to believe someone has shoplifted and has purposely concealed items on him, the shopkeeper can detain the shoplifter. Probable cause requires the shopkeeper to have a reasonable basis to conclude that theft has occurred. Additionally, the theft must have occurred in front of the shopkeeper.

Even if detention is rightful, it must still be carried out in a reasonable manner so that only reasonable force is used. Additionally, the detention must not last longer than the reasonable time period necessary to determine whether the individual has the items and secure them. For example, if a merchant believes he witnessed a customer concealing an item in his coat and the merchant detains that person and finds that there is nothing in the coat, the merchant must release the customer upon that finding. If the customer is held over the reasonable time period, the merchant will not be immune from civil or criminal liability for the detention, and may be charged with false imprisonment.

Many areas are slowly granting security guards more powers because of the limited availability of police officers, but that doesn't stop them from taking advantage of people's respect for apparent authority and ignorance of their rights.

And, unless you've got the dumbest pimp in the world on your hands (which he might be if he's being as blatant as someone trolling for reactions) he's going to be more actively aware of just how far powers and rights extend than someone that doesn't have to depend on such in their day to day life.

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JWatts
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quote:

Reasonable suspicion creates a limited power to detain; it's not a natural ability of security guards:

Yes of course, just like a normal police officer must have a reasonable suspicion to detain you.

I think you've pretty much proven my point that a licensed security guard in NJ could have detained an admitted child pimp.

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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by JWatts:
quote:

Reasonable suspicion creates a limited power to detain; it's not a natural ability of security guards:

Yes of course, just like a normal police officer must have a reasonable suspicion to detain you.

I think you've pretty much proven my point that a licensed security guard in NJ could have detained an admitted child pimp.

No- that doesn't fall into either witnessing a crime or the explicit shoplifting extension.
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JWatts
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quote:
Originally posted by Pyrtolin:
No- that doesn't fall into either witnessing a crime or the explicit shoplifting extension.

First you said Security Guards couldn't detain.

Now you are changing your argument to say Security Guards can't detain unless they witness a crime. Furthermore, your very own quote does not support this new argument.

quote:
When a shopkeeper, security guard, or police officer has probable cause to believe

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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by JWatts:

Now you are changing your argument to say Security Guards can't detain unless they witness a crime.

In other words, they can make a Citizen's Arrest (something that can only be done if the citizen witnesses the crime) which is explicitly what I said above.


quote:
Furthermore, your very own quote does not support this new argument.

quote:
When a shopkeeper, security guard, or police officer has probable cause to believe

Sure, if you cut the sentence off in the middle right before the qualifier:
quote:
someone has shoplifted and has purposely concealed items on him,
Not any crime, only one specific crime, given that this comes from the laws about shoplifting, not from the laws about when a citizen can detain someone.
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G2
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Live Action addresses the PP "response":
quote:
“We reported this to the FBI”

Planned Parenthood wrote the FBI a letter a week AFTER our investigation, only after they realized that Live Action had conducted the sting. They say this themselves. As much as they may pretend, Planned Parenthood was not attempting to help send human traffickers to jail; they were attempting to pre-empt the release of Live Action’s footage.

If Planned Parenthood really cared about reporting potential sex traffickers to authorities, they would have called police while the pimp was in the clinic, or immediately after. Not wasting a minute. Planned Parenthood, where are the reports from the now SIX clinics we’ve released, that you immediately called the police?

Why did all your staffers, instead of refusing service or gathering information from the pimp about his sex ring to inform authorities, GIVE the pimp information about how to access the Planned Parenthood system for secret services?

So yeah, PP did notify the FBI but it's obvious that was a preemptive action to deflect criticism once they knew they would be exposed.
quote:
Live Action Videos Are All “Doctored” and a “Hoax”

We have heard this tired claim from Planned Parenthood every time we release a video. Yet every time we’ve released a video, we post the full, unedited footage online for all to see, and send the full, unedited footage to state and federal authorities. Planned Parenthood can’t argue with the full footage.

See Vice-President Stuart Schear on camera claiming our tapes are doctored, then admitting he hasn’t even seen them.

Planned Parenthood, if you really think our videos are “fake”, “doctored” and a “hoax”, why did you yesterday claim that you will be retraining your entire staff of 11,000?

This was one of the first ones tried here too. TomDavidson claimed this despite never seeing them either, it's simply a knee jerk response. Good question at the end ... why do they claim retraining if this was the result of faked video? Everything should be fine, no training needed. In other words, everything is fine but we're gonna fix it too! [LOL]

quote:
This is an “isolated incident”

A favorite of Planned Parenthood’s. Every time Live Action releases a video (and we’ve released over 16 now), it is “an isolated incident”. Let the facts speak for themselves. Look at the evidence. For over three years our team has been investigating the institutional sex abuse cover up at Planned Parenthood abortion clinics. Even before the human trafficking footage, we released 10 clinics that revealed the sexual abuse cover up of minors as young as 13. In these 10 clinics, we had actors posing as the underage girls, self-reporting abuse and asking for help. In every case, Planned Parenthood worked to cover up the abuse of the underage girl and did not comply with the mandatory reporting laws for sexual abuse. Instead of help and safety, the underage girls are coached by Planned Parenthood staffers on how to cover up abuse and get secret abortions.

Live Action has now released video from six more clinics in the past week, all showing Planned Parenthood workers, at all levels of the organization, willing to aid and abet the human traffickers of underage girls.

This is an institutional crisis that has engulfed the whole organization. No matter how many times Planned Parenthood’s PR firm says “isolated incident”, the growing body of evidence still stands.

That's a whole lot of “isolated incidents”. [Roll Eyes]

There were others but those pretty much encapsulate it.

[ February 09, 2011, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: G2 ]

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Rafi
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Inspired by the recent thread necromancy and in light of recent events, how's the defenders of planned parenthood feeling today?
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TomDavidson
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Pretty good, since the most recent "events" are prompted by a another edited hoax video. It only reinforces the conclusion that modern conservatives are dishonest when they're not just stupid.
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Wayward Son
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Or that conservatives can be dishonest and stupid at the same time. [Smile]

You might want to start with PolitiFact, Rafi, although there are several that debunk this particular piece.

quote:
"(Clinics) want to do this, but they want to do it in a way that’s not going to impact them, and it’s much much less about money. You could call them up and say, ‘I’ll pay you double the money,’ and they’re almost more inclined to say no, because it’s going to look bad. … To them, this is not a service they should be making money from, it’s something they should be able to offer this to their patients, in a way that doesn’t impact them.

"Again, affiliates don’t — affiliates are not looking to make money by doing this. They’re looking to serve their patients and just make it not impact their bottom line.

"At the end of the day we just want to keep the doors open. And we don’t want to let jeopardize keeping the doors open. We just want (the cost per specimen) to be reasonable for the impact it has on the clinic. This is not a new revenue stream the affiliates are looking at. This is a way to offer the patient the service that they want. Do good for the medical community.

"Like I said, is to give patients the option without impacting our bottom line. The messaging is this should not be seen as a new revenue stream because that’s not what it is."

Remember hearing that on the video? [Wink]

As a poster on Snopes nicely summarized it, "[T]his video was edited to make it look like PP was selling fetus, but they aren’t. They were discussing the tissue donations that some patients choose to do, which is totally legal, and the cost of transport."

So, how are you feeling today, being duped once again by the conservative propoganda machine? [Big Grin]

[ July 21, 2015, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: Wayward Son ]

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Rafi
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Wow, such hysterics. Calm down.

So when you guys say it's a "hoax" and "debunked", what parts of this story are, in your opinions, not true?

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Wayward Son
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The part where Planned Parenthood is supposedly "illegally profiting" from selling fetal tissue.

Much like some of our Presidential candidates have said.

quote:
Rick Perry, July 14: The video showing a Planned Parenthood employee selling the body parts of aborted children is a disturbing reminder of the organization’s penchant for profiting off the tragedy of a destroyed human life.

Rand Paul, July 14: … a video showing [Planned Parenthood]’s top doctor describing how she performs late-term abortions to sell body parts for profit!

Carly Fiorina, July 14: This latest news is tragic and outrageous. This isn’t about “choice.” It’s about profiting on the death of the unborn while telling women it’s about empowerment.

Tells you something about the caliber of the candidates, don't it? [Wink]

This is what you were talking about, isn't it, Rafi? Or was it somehow shocking to discover that Planned Parenthood had been legally providing fetal tissue for medical research without profitting from it, something that has been going on for decades? That is the obvious thing you were referring to. Were you referring to something else?

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Rafi
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Ok, so why are you in such hysterics? Do you work at one of these? Calm down, dude. Let's go a step at a time.

So PP is dismembering infants before they're born and chopping them into parts to sell. That's something that is so painfully obvious to you, and anyone else, that to think otherwise is absurd. Do I have that correct so far?

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Wayward Son
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As part of the abortion procedure, the fetus is often dismembered, yes, whether intentionally (as for late-term abortions) or unintentionally (because of the suction process). From what I read, they sometimes have to reassemble the pieces to make sure everything is there. So, yeah, basically that is true, although they are not "chopped," since that implies intentional dismemberment.

And they are fetuses or earlier, not "infants." Terminology is important here to be clear.

"Into parts to sell" is incorrect. They are not dismembered for selling purposes, and they are not sold. The tissue is donated.

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scifibum
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The "sell" part is wrong. They will ship the fetal tissue elsewhere for research purposes, and charge for the shipping. There's no profit motive.
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kmbboots
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Rafi, do you have a problem with organ donation? Would you say that hospitals that participate in that chop up people to sell?
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TomDavidson
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quote:
so why are you in such hysterics?
I'm genuinely curious: what sentence in the last few posts would you say was "hysterical" in tone? I understand why it's important to you to spin the response in that way, but which choice of words in particular do you believe gives you that opportunity?

quote:
So, yeah, basically that is true, although they are not "chopped," since that implies intentional dismemberment.
Actually, to be fair, I believe there is indeed some intentional chopping going on. It's not like they just shove a stick blender up there and set it to puree. The general goal is to kill the fetus and then take it apart methodically.

And, yes, I'm squicked out by this in a way that I'm not squicked out by organ donation, since there's arguably less consent; you'll recall that I'm opposed to third trimester abortion precisely because I think there's a substantial chance that we're dealing with sentience by that point. But if we're going to allow abortion based on the argument that a fetus is not a person and the woman carrying it is entitled to oversee its treatment, this is a reasonable and even sensible result.

To argue in the other direction -- to say that this result is squicky, and therefore abortion must not be allowed even if the fetus isn't a person -- doesn't make much logical sense; it's a pure appeal to emotion, on the order of "gay sex seems icky and awkward to me."

[ July 21, 2015, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]

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Rafi
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Strange how hard we try to work the wording to distance ourselves from what's happening. So, I'm stuck on a mobile device, pardon me as I try to string it all together.

They are intentionally dismembered. Whether during th initial procedure or afterward inoreperation for sale and shipping, at some point a human body is birken down into human parts.

The sell part is wrong? They only charge for shipping? How do we know that? Hen what's up with all the negotiations? I've worked at and with a number of places that ship things and it's not really a negotiable thing. Is PP also doing their own delivery service? Why did one negotiate and brag about wanting a Lamborghini? How did negotiating shipping translate into her getting a car?

As an adult donating organs, do hospitals negotiate the "shipping"?

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TomDavidson
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quote:
How did negotiating shipping translate into her getting a car?
Is it your genuine belief that she has purchased a Lamborghini?

quote:
As an adult donating organs, do hospitals negotiate the "shipping"?
It should be noted that, yes, they do. Organs for medical research purposes are almost never delivered for free, even when they are donated for specific research. There is a substantial cost associated with storing and transporting them.

Really, any idiot who believes that Planned Parenthood is encouraging late-term abortions so they can profit from the sale of baby parts is, well, an idiot. That's rather like a hospital trying to foment civil unrest so they can sell bandages.

[ July 21, 2015, 09:53 PM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]

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Rafi
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I don't believe she purchased a Lamborghini, I believe she intended to benefit sufficiently from the sale that she would be able to purchase something very expensive though.

No, shipped my is not free. Certainly not. But PP does not provide a shipping service as far as I know. It would seem that PP would have to negotiate shipping with a shipping company instead of doing it with each individual customer.

As for structuring the abortions sonthatbtheyblrivid maximum opportunity for harvesting (and selling), they clearly admit to that.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
I believe she intended to benefit sufficiently from the sale that she would be able to purchase something very expensive though.
You believe this is money that she would have personally kept? That sales of these organs accord substantial personal wealth to the office workers who arrange them?

quote:
It would seem that PP would have to negotiate shipping with a shipping company instead of doing it with each individual customer.
I am certain that, like most vendors, they negotiate with each customer while keeping their own costs in mind. In other words: certain organs will cost more to ship and store than others, while certain others will be rarer and more difficult to obtain (like, as noted in the video, any parts of the brain). I'm not sure what strikes you as unethical about that.
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Pyrtolin
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quote:
I've worked at and with a number of places that ship things and it's not really a negotiable thing.
Seriously? Same price for USPS or FedEx overnight? Same price for giftwrapped or not? Of someone has a special request that the item be put in a series of 10 boxes, alternating bubble wrap and packing peanuts, with each box wrapped in a specific color or character print paper, then be hand delivered, it would cost exactly the same as a standard bulk rate envelope?

There's going to be differences in shipping and labor costs from someone who's fine with having the tissue shipped standard mail in a formaldehyde preservation solution and someone who wants the equivalent of a live organ transplant, with the specimen hand delivered immediately using dry ice to keep it chilled enough to prevent degradation. Or perhaps they want it sliced thin and pressed into microscope slides. That's a process that;s going to cost a different amount than anything mentioned above.

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Wayward Son
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quote:
I believe she intended to benefit sufficiently from the sale that she would be able to purchase something very expensive though.
Then you would be wrong.

Think about it. $30 - $100 is pocket change. I typically carry about that much for gas. No one is going to get rich on that piddling amount.

It would be enough, though, to compensate for packing and shipping, which is what she said.

So while you might want to believe those charges are for profit, the numbers don't add up.

quote:
They are intentionally dismembered. Whether during th initial procedure or afterward inoreperation for sale and shipping, at some point a human body is birken down into human parts.
Although technically true, this kinda sounds like like a meat packing plant or such.

Realize that a majority of the fetuses are simply disposed of. (I mean, how much of a market is there for fetal tissue?) For that, there is no dismemberment after the procedure. Why bother?

Yes, if there is a need for a specific part, that will be removed. But even then, the rest will be disposed of.

Only if the entire fetus is required will they make sure that all parts are present.

Abortion is not easy, and it's not pretty. To safely remove the fetus, sometime it's safest to bring it out in parts. Often times the procedure itself can break the fetus apart. But that is primarily for medical reasons, not for splitting up the body for sale.

This is salvaging portions of the body for medical use, like donating organs, not cutting steaks.

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kmbboots
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quote:
Originally posted by Rafi:

They are intentionally dismembered. Whether during th initial procedure or afterward inoreperation for sale and shipping, at some point a human body is birken down into human parts.


Again, this is also true for organ donation. And again, not "sale". Stop saying "sale".
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