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Author Topic: Climate Change is Real...
Daruma28
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...and it 'aint because of man made pollutants causing "global warming." Very soon, those of you that bought into the massive fraud of Anthropogenic Global Warming are going to discover just how mislead and deluded you have been.

This is just the beginning.

quote:
NASA has been warning about it…scientific papers have been written about it…geologists have seen its traces in rock strata and ice core samples…

Now "it" is here: an unstoppable magnetic pole shift that has sped up and is causing life-threatening havoc with the world's weather.

Forget about global warming—man-made or natural—what drives planetary weather patterns is the climate and what drives the climate is the sun's magnetosphere and its electromagnetic interaction with a planet's own magnetic field.

When the field shifts, when it fluctuates, when it goes into flux and begins to become unstable anything can happen. And what normally happens is that all hell breaks loose.

Magnetic polar shifts have occurred many times in Earth's history. It's happening again now to every planet in the solar system including Earth.

The magnetic field drives weather to a significant degree and when that field starts migrating superstorms start erupting.

The superstorms have arrived


We may soon be wishing there really was such a thing as Global Warming, and that we should be pumping as much "warming gasses" into the atmosphere as possible...but of course the whole idea that carbon would cause major planetary warming is and always was a deliberate lie. [Eek!]

quote:
Pole reversal may also be initiating new Ice Age

So, the start of a new Ice Age is marked by a magnetic pole reversal, increased volcanic activity, larger and more frequent earthquakes, tsunamis, colder winters, superstorms and the halting of the Earth's precessional wobble.

Unfortunately, all of those conditions are being met.

I'm ridiculed for being a conspiracy theorist...well how's this particular theory that should increase my popularity around here: [Cool]

Their is a certain segment of the world that has known about the pending ice age for decades now. These are the really wealthy, powerful elites who have influence and power in governments around the world.

They've been preparing for the next ice age by building shelters, stockpiling food, and deliberately promoting the lie of "global warming" to keep the masses distracted and unawares of the real climate change threat to humanity.

This is why they built the Global seed bank in Norway.

What do you think a new ice age is going to do to our currently unsustainable way of life? The last ice age had over half of N. America covered in sheets of ice. How much food will humanity be able to grow in ice age climate conditions?

What is gonna happen when the world's global food supply collapses because the changing weather destroys the majority of the world's crops?

Food riots. Civil unrest as the grocery stores are quickly emptied and food supplies start to run out.

Oh, but an ice age is not the only thing we have to worry about with the magnetic pole shift...increased volcanic activity. Supervolcanos
that have lay dormant for eons have begun to show dramatic changes...Is the world's largest super-volcano set to erupt for the first time in 600,000 years, wiping out two-thirds of the U.S.?

Perhaps this is why our own US Government has been preparing for decades now to train the military to handle civil unrest in the homeland?

Why every President going back to Nixon has been slowly but surely building up an accumulation of executive orders that gives the President the abilities to completely suspend the Constitution and implement Nationwide Martial law at the signing of his pen?

Why they've built FEMA concentration camps in every single State?

Some people are getting ready for something big in the near future...

These are the kinds of questions I've been contemplating while fashioning the latest design in tinfoil hats and hiding from the helicopters...

[Exploding]

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starLisa
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quote:
Originally posted by Daruma28:
Why they've built FEMA concentration camps in every single State?

Ahem. I think you mean "emergency internment camps." That's the politically correct term.
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Greg Davidson
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A pre-existing prediction that I repeated on this site, is that a major risk from global warming is weather volatility that affects crop yields, leading to hunger in countries with a marginal agricultural capability that leads to war.

If this prediction were true, the early signs would be rising food prices and political unrest. Well, according to recent reports, food costs at record highs in January and the initial signs of political instability are being seen in a wide range of countries with marginal agricultural capabilities. And the problem if this prediction is accurate is that the trend of agricultural disruptions are likely to continue.

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RickyB
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You're an ignoramus. Anyone with a smidgen of knowledge has been talking for years about climate change rather than simple warming. Weather is a highly complex, chaotic system and nothing is ever straightforward or simple about it. Warming can paradoxically cause more storms and even harsher winters. Plus there's the issue of global dimming, which lends itself to colder weather through the blocking of solar rays.

The sun's magnetic field plays a role as well, no doubt, but to think that all the energy and heat generated by 150 years of industrialism have no effect on global temperatures is ignorant.

And of course anything Daruma and brayers of his ilk disagree with is never an honest mistake or difference of opinion. Oh no - it's always a deliberate lie. Take off the tinfoil hat, dude. There's a lightning storm out there...

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Daruma28
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When oh when Ricky will you ever learn to debate without relying so heavily on ad hominem and blowhard liberal condescension? At least learn to be a little more clever with your insults.

150 years of industrialism is a blink of an eye in geological time.

One super volcano blowing it's top will put up more sun blocking atmospheric pollution that affects the climate than 1500 years of industrialization.

Krakatoa's eruption at the end of the 19th century caused a year-long global cooling. There was no summer the year after it's eruption.

And Krakatoa is a piker compared to the supervolcano at Yellowstone. When that sucker blows, the climate change will be cataclysmic.

You cling to your delusions about the validity of the Global Warming myth by citing SCIENCE.

Look at what science is observing RIGHT NOW with the Sun and it's cyclical changes that are affecting the entire solar system.

It's not just the Earth's magnetic poles that are shifting right now. All the planets in the solar system are experiencing the same thing. What does that tell us?

Climate Change is driven by the SUN.

Pull your brainwashed head out of your ass and ignore those navel gazers contemplating abstract computer models to predict the atmospheric effects of carbon emissions.

The hubris of the secular liberal humanist is amazing.

":All that carbon dioxide may raise the global temperature by four degrees in a few short years!

It's an emergency situation!"

So while you who believe this bull****, and run around changing your lightbulbs to cfl's, buying hybrid cars and religiously recycling your soda cans to "save the planet," the Sun continues to progress through it's cycle, and moves into a long period of lower energy output, and the earth's climate PLUNGES into the next ice age. Increased Volcanic activity, Earthquakes, superstorms, colder temperatures - they are happening RIGHT NOW.

And you're still bleating about global warming?

[DOH]

The global magnetic poles are shifting.

The earth is no longer wobbling in it's rotation.

Cracks in the magnetic ionosphere are causing these giant superstorms that have buried the upper latitudes in snow, and caused the biblical flooding and largest cyclone in living memory to make landfall in Australia.

The shifting magnetic fields are also implicated in the mass die offs of birds and fish all over the world in the last month.

150 years into the next ice age, it will look like 150 years of 19th and 20th century industrialization never happened.

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RickyB
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"150 years of industrialism is a blink of an eye in geological time.

One super volcano blowing it's top will put up more sun blocking atmospheric pollution that affects the climate than 1500 years of industrialization.

Krakatoa's eruption at the end of the 19th century caused a year-long global cooling. There was no summer the year after it's eruption."

Yes, but with a volcano eruption you have the eruption, and then the atmosphere gets respite in which the inordinate pollution can be worked out of the system. With industrial pollution, there is no respite for the atmosphere to get over the injection of pollution. It's continuous.

The difference between you and me is I'm not denying the sun's impact the way you're denying the impact of industrial pollution.

When the ice caps and icebergs stop melting to the point of the north-west passage becoming navigable, when the oceans stop rising and when islands like Tuvalu stop being swallowed by the rising waters, let me know. Not that such an even will render anything I said untrue - it will simply mean that additional factors have intervened to counter them.

But you have such a burning need for "libruls" to be wrong and to vehemently reject anything and everything they say, that you refuse to concede even an inch, all evidence be damned.

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Daruma28
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The difference between you and me is I'm not denying the sun's impact the way you're denying the impact of industrial pollution.

No, I'm not denying the impact, I'm denying that the impact will lead to catastrophic climate change.

Volcanic ash and shifting magnetic poles is the very real threat to humanity...not carbon emissions.

When the ice caps and icebergs stop melting to the point of the north-west passage becoming navigable,

[LOL]

That's Al Gore-ian fiction. Look at the reality today: World of two halves! Map shows most of Northern Hemisphere is covered in snow and ice

Not looking so navigable today. [Exploding]


when the oceans stop rising and when islands like Tuvalu stop being swallowed by the rising waters, let me know.

Tuvalu is an atoll. Atolls sink.

Not that such an even will render anything I said untrue - it will simply mean that additional factors have intervened to counter them.

Counter? Even if AGW where real, the effects of a polar magnetic shift, a supervolcanic eruption and the commencement of another ice age will completely dwarf whatever few degrees of temperature change carbon emissions and industrial pollutants would supposedly cause.

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Greg Davidson
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Satellite maps do show that it is colder in winter than in summer, so we are in agreement on science up to the elementary school level.

However, a prediction associated with the global warming hypothesis is that the level of ice associated with winter and summer in the polar regions will decline. These are exactly the results that are being observed with satellite data (and in situ measurements as well - there was a time when it would have been considered quite remarkable for there to be a navigable Northwest passage around North America, but in recent summers it has been more common than not).

So if your refutation of global warming is that it is colder in winter than summer, do you plan to follow that up with a declaration that it is darker at night than during the day-time? And who, exactly, do you expect to be convinced by such arguments?

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RickyB
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"Tuvalu is an atoll. Atolls sink."

The place has been inhabited for over a three thousand years. Now it's suddenly sinking. Just coincidence? Sure.

"That's Al Gore-ian fiction. Look at the reality today: World of two halves! Map shows most of Northern Hemisphere is covered in snow and ice"

Oh wow. In the middle of winter, the part of the world that's in winter is full of snow. Unprecedented! [Roll Eyes]

Did you compare that image to images of the same date in previous years? Anything? Jordan, Athelstan, y'all want to comment about the wisdom of one getting a science education from the Daily Mail?

The fact is that last I heard, the NW passage is indeed navigable almost year-round (as of 2009, due to arctic shrinkage. Look it up), the arctic ice is receding to the point of a huge problem for polar bears and a huge boon for real estate speculators, etc. These are facts, and other phenomenon do not render these facts any less true, nor less significant.

You want to believe that "your" effect will prove so powerful as to render "my" effect meaningless in the long run, that's one thing. But to deny the very real effects of "my" phenomenon is inane in the extreme. And the certainty with which you spout off on science you never studied and only picked up very selective bits and pieces of designed specifically for political polemic - well that's just precious. Me, I'll listen to folks who studied the sciences in question for their own sake and in depth.

Again: anyone who seriously believes that all the factories and power plants in the world don't create excess heat that just wasn't part of the equation 150 years ago seems exceedingly foolish to me. You have to account for that heat.

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Daruma28
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The place has been inhabited for over a three thousand years. Now it's suddenly sinking. Just coincidence? Sure.

Who said suddenly? All atolls and island chains sink. It's just at a pace so slow it is not noticeable.

Oh wow. In the middle of winter, the part of the world that's in winter is full of snow. Unprecedented!

Oh the irony. Perhaps you've failed to notice that this is in fact a rather unprecedented winter. Record low temperatures and snowfall all over the world.


The fact is that last I heard, the NW passage is indeed navigable almost year-round (as of 2009, due to arctic shrinkage. Look it up), the arctic ice is receding to the point of a huge problem for polar bears and a huge boon for real estate speculators, etc. These are facts

They are not facts...they are "inconvenient truths." [LOL]

You want to believe that "your" effect will prove so powerful as to render "my" effect meaningless in the long run

Now you are simply revealing that you did not even bother to read any of my links, you simply jumped in and started engaging the debate as if this were just another AGW thread with the typical talking points of the good ole "right vs. left" "Go TEAM DONKEY! Go TEAM ELEPHANT!" Stuporbowl.

Go check the links. Read up on what the research scientists who are observing and studying the solar cycle, and the geomagnetic pole reversal.

Go read the link about the rapidly increasing rise of the Yellowstone super-volcano...in fact volcanoes all over the globe are increasingly becoming more active.

Recent volcanic activity has scientists thinking

"A new series of volcanic eruptions within the last week has many scientists wondering if we’re going toward a new trend of increased volcanic explosions."

"If we were to see several major eruptions within a short period of time, it’s possible that the Earth would be cooled by at least 1 to 3 degrees as all the dust and ash in the upper atmosphere would partly shield the sun’s rays and greatly disrupt worldwide weather patterns.

Temperatures did cool rather dramatically during the infamous “Year without a Summer” in 1816 following the major eruption of Mount Tambora in 1815. That explosion put an incredible eight times more volcanic material into the upper atmosphere than the recent strong eruption in June 1991 of Mount Pinatubo in the Philippines, which, by the way, briefly dropped the Earth’s temperature more than a degree in 1992.

There has been growing concern about the huge “supervolcano” in Yellowstone National Park. Although a disastrous eruption there would throw the Earth into a nuclear winter almost immediately, a major explosion is not expected for at least thousands of years, but who knows for sure."


While I do point out that AGW is a lie, Global Warming is a hoax, and it's believers are deluded, that is really not the point of this thread. Ya'll know I already think that.

The point is there is observable phenomenon and building evidence that we are indeed moving into an ice age cycle...and even if your AGW theory were real, the ice age and a super volcanic eruption would cause a catalysmic, extinction- event and dramatic climate change that will render any so-called carbon based warming moot.

Your "greenhouse effect" will not work when there is volcanic ash obscuring the solar radiation, nor will the greenhouse effect even occur if the sun is putting out far less energy during this phase of it's lifecycle.

Even if you are correct in supporting your faith based myth regarding AGW and it's effects on our climate, you're not understanding the coming change in climate if in fact we are moving into a new ice age.

[ February 06, 2011, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: Daruma28 ]

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velcro
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Daruma,

Can you point to the evidence that the magnetic pole is shifting now? Not the gradual drift that is going on all the time, but a reversal? Cuz NASA says it takes thousands of years. It may be due, in that on average it happens every X thousand years, and it has been about that long. But if you have a nanogram of science in your brain, you will know that means squat.

NASA
quote:
They've also learned what happens during a magnetic flip. Reversals take a few thousand years to complete, and during that time--contrary to popular belief--the magnetic field does not vanish. "It just gets more complicated," says Glatzmaier. Magnetic lines of force near Earth's surface become twisted and tangled, and magnetic poles pop up in unaccustomed places. A south magnetic pole might emerge over Africa, for instance, or a north pole over Tahiti. Weird. But it's still a planetary magnetic field, and it still protects us from space radiation and solar storms.
So, until you provide credible evidence that it is happening, we really have no reason to believe you.
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Funean
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From what I understand the geologic record shows that reversals take a minimum of 10,000 years to effect, and that large changes are more likely to affect things like electronic signals than climate.

I'm really rather confused by any and all efforts to map scientific thought and speculation to American political positions. It seems to me that it's much easier and more sensible to map them to "ignorant" and "informed." I mean, there is data, pretty readily available, and there are credible and incredible interpretations of it out there, with both sorts quite easy to find and compare.

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KidTokyo
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Who is the author of this article and why is his work on a self-publishing website of any concern to us?

Colder winters are in fact predicted by global warming, as is more extreme weather in general. That has been part of the model for decades.

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flydye
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quote:
Originally posted by KidTokyo:
Colder winters are in fact predicted by global warming, as is more extreme weather in general. That has been part of the model for decades.

Like duct tape, is there anything global warming can't do?

If it's hotter, it's global warming. If it's colder, it's global warming. If it rains too much, it's global warming. If it rains too little...

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DonaldD
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quote:
Oh the irony. Perhaps you've failed to notice that this is in fact a rather unprecedented winter. Record low temperatures and snowfall all over the world
Not to derail your post-partisan thread any further, but it's not unprecendented at all - we've had similar December/January temperatures a few times in the past twenty five years, and similar two-month periods as recently as 2000.

As for bird 'die offs'? Those are also regular occurences - they just don't usually get the attention of a slow news cycle in the USA. Was it the one in Arkansas that started the rash of reported incidents?

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TomDavidson
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quote:
is there anything global warming can't do?
Well, a lot of moderate, predictable weather that gets very slightly cooler each year, on average, would be a surprise.
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vulture
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I feel obliged to link this spoof here (in the style of Britsh government information adverts)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-F8EO3qOVk

Hope you can see it outside the UK

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TomDavidson
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*grin*
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G2
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quote:
Originally posted by KidTokyo:
Who is the author of this article and why is his work on a self-publishing website of any concern to us?

He relies on data from the paper "Weather and the Earth's magnetic field" published in the journal Nature, a Danish study published in the scientific journal Geology. He also provides links to other data from the British Geological Survey, NASA, National Geographic, Nature, Scientific American.

Does this satisfy your appeal to authority?

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JWatts
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Daruma, I think the evidence for a magnetic pole shift is pretty shaky. I think the evidence for a mild increase in global temperatures due to Green house gases (with the effect trickling off over time) is on a more solid footing. The possible effects of such a warming have been far overblown, but the underlying science seems sound.

quote:
Originally posted by RickyB:
You're an ignoramus. Anyone with a smidgen of knowledge has been talking for years about climate change rather than simple warming.

The sun's magnetic field plays a role as well, no doubt, but to think that all the energy and heat generated by 150 years of industrialism have no effect on global temperatures is ignorant.

[DOH]

You just called someone an ignoramus and then followed up with a completely ignorant statement involving global warming.

The energy and heat generated by industrialization has nothing to do with global warming. The amount of heat human civilization adds to the atmosphere is absolutely miniscule compared to what the sun adds every day. Global warming postulates that the addition of green house gases (primarily CO2) into the Terran atmosphere will result in more reflected solar radiation being trapped as heat in the atmosphere.

quote:
Originally posted by Greg Davidson:
However, a prediction associated with the global warming hypothesis is that the level of ice associated with winter and summer in the polar regions will decline. These are exactly the results that are being observed with satellite data...

No, not really. The northern polar regions are behaving as the models predict, but the southern polar regions are not.

[ February 07, 2011, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: JWatts ]

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Daruma28
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Funean and Velcro - the point about the magnetic pole shifting is not that it needs to completely flip for climate change to occur...but that the process of the flip is one of the signs of a new ice age. The magnetic pole has always shifted East at a slow, steady pace of 5 miles per year...but in the last decade it has been accelerating it's movement to 40 miles per year.

The pole shift is one of the signs of an approaching ice age.

Donald - Yes, you Canucks in Canuckistan have had similar cold weather. When I said unprecedented, I meant many places around the globe have hit record lows, places are experiencing unusual colder weather.

As for mass die offs...they do happen, but not normally all over the world in the same short span of time like we experienced this past January.

http://www.suite101.com/content/earths-magnetic-fields-may-be-causing-bird-and-fish-die-off-a328353

Greg - like others have noted, AGW is used to predict any and everything. That being said, it doesn't make intuitive sense to attribute global warming to a loss in crop growing capacity.

For instance, we do know that greenland used to be green, instead of the ice covered rock it is today. When the earth was warmer, the Vikings made settlements all over greenland.

Than the last mini-ice age caused them to abandon Greenland. Warmer climate - more latitudes where plant growth can thrive. Hell, AGW proponents call it the 'Greenhouse' effect. What are greenhouses used for other than to grow plants in hotter, humid conditions than the area the green house is located?

But the theory of dramatic food shortages? That's certainly real. When the next super volcano blows it's top (and Yellowstone is not the only one), the atmospheric debris can destroy crops.

If we really are moving into a new ice age, we are going to gradually shift into colder winters and longer winters. Delays in planting seasons and crops lost to increasingly longer cold intervals will make growing food far more difficult...long before actually reach a full blown ice age where half the continents are covered in glaciers.

Kid - feel free to ignore the ideas in this thread. I assure you, none of them were derived from the IPCC or Al Gore. [LOL]

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Daruma28
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One thing some scientists are noting is that it is perfectly normal for fluctuations in earth temperatures over a long period of time to precede ice age events.

In other words, increasing temperatures often precede an impending ice age, and contribute to glacial growth over time.

How Ice Ages Begin

quote:
The idea that global warming will produce global cooling is counterintuitive to many people, but that process of heating leading to cooling is a basic part of the 'orbital theory' of an insolation-driven (sunlight-driven) Ice Age cycle. The 'orbital theory', which is based on the fact that cyclic changes in the earth's orbit of the sun alter the amount of sunlight that reaches the earth, is the leading theory of Ice Age causation.

It is likely that the next Ice Age will be preceded and precipitated (literally) by an upward spike in global temperatures and warming of the oceans, which will increase oceanic evaporation and cause an increase in global precipitation, some of which will fall as snow that will feed the growth of glaciers at high latitudes and high elevations.

An Ice Age is characterized by the formation of vast glaciers on top of large continental land masses. Since there are much larger continental land masses located in the high latitudes of the Northern Hemisphere than in the Southern Hemisphere, it is in the Northern Hemisphere that the Ice Age cycle is most obviously manifested. At the peak of the last Ice Age glacial maximum, about 17,000 years ago, glaciers up to two miles thick covered all of Canada, Scandinavia, and most of Britain.

The astronomical phenomenon known as the Precession of the Equinoxes causes a gradual rotation of the earth's axial tilt, which changes the season during which the Northern and Southern Hemispheres make their nearest (at perigee) and farthest (at apogee) approaches to the sun.

For the past 11,000 years, winter in the Northern Hemisphere has occurred when the sun was at perigee, its nearest approach to the earth, and summer in the Northern Hemisphere has occurred when the sun was at apogee, its farthest distance from the earth. Winters at solar perigee and summers at solar apogee have the effect of reducing the temperature extremes of the seasons. The winter perigee and summer apogee also shortened the duration of winters and lengthened the duration of summers in the Northern Hemisphere.

But now the short, mild winters and long, mild summers which the Northern Hemisphere has enjoyed for the past 11,000 years have come to an end; henceforward the winters will become longer and colder, and the summers will become shorter and hotter.

During the next 11,000 years the Northern Hemisphere will experience long, cold winters and short, hot summers. The blazing hot summers will warm the oceans and cause increased precipitation, much of which will be deposited as snow at high latitudes and high elevations. The long, cold winters will further facilitate the growth and maintenance of glaciers in the high latitudes and high elevations of the Northern Hemisphere.

Research has shown that during the previous Ice Age glacial maximum, the first 5,000 years of the glacial advance was characterized by the conditions described by the above paragraph. After 5,000 years, the continental glaciers were well established at their full extent and the Northern Hemisphere remained in full Ice Age conditions for another 5,000 years before the ice began to retreat about 11,000 years ago.

In recent years we have seen record-breaking high summer temperatures recorded in many parts of the Northern Hemisphere, and we have also seen record-breaking low winter temperatures recorded in many parts of the Northern Hemisphere. The winters of 2007-8 and 2008-9 broke many records for low temperatures and the depth of snowfall, and in early October of 2009 we are already seeing an early onset of wintry-cold conditions in the Northern Hemisphere.

The increasing extremes of summer and winter temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere that we have seen in recent years are consistent with what we should expect from the earth's present movement into an 11,000 year period of extreme summers and winters.

That is how an Ice Age begins.

It may take thousands of years before the planet is in full blown glaciation again...but only a few years of mass crop failures are necessary to create the conditions for mass starvations, civil unrest and warring over diminishing natural resources.

FEMA camps, here we come! [DOH]

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DonaldD
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Daruma, I was talking about worldwide average temperatures, not temperatures local to any part North America. It has been a cold two months. But not unprecedented.

We have seen some 'unprecedented' warm weather in recently, however: the two warmest 13-month periods in the instrumental record were both centered in the past 12-months. Does it mean anything? Not much on its own, no.

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JoshuaD
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Daruma: Are you proposing any plan of action, or are you simply trying to scare the **** out of people for fun?
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Daruma28
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Plan of action? [LOL] I've always been this forum's chicken little in terms of survival for potential civil unrest and economic collapse.

Look, I know a lot of military and police officers from my martial arts organization. The local police force, and the national guard have all been regularly practicing civil unrest drills and rounding up civilians and controlling riots.

One of the areas I go hunting is on the outskirts of an Army training ground. I've seen a reconstructed "american suburb" training area...where they built a mock block of a typical American housing tract.

The military is practicing home entry and civilian round up for several years now.

It's not paranoid fantasy to point out that whether we the Sheeple believe mass catastrophe and a widespread breakdown of civil society is possible...because our Government does and is preparing for it, as if it were imminent.

When we had our tsunami scare last year here in Hawaii, the civil defense sirens were going off at 5:30 am to warn the masses of the potential danger and to begin evacuation of the coastal zones.

Within hours, the grocery store shelves all over the island were emptied, and gas stations sold out of their fuel as cars lined up for blocks to fuel up.

And that was a false alarm.

What could happen in the face of a very real event?

I've been stockpling food, water, toilet paper, lantern/propane fuel, guns, ammunition ever since I saw the events after Hurricane Katrina.

So when the tsunami warning went into effect, I was relaxing in my yard drinking beer while the rest of the people around here were scrambling to buy supplies in the event that a tsunami caused a shortage.

Plan of action? Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

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Daruma28
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We have seen some 'unprecedented' warm weather in recently, however: the two warmest 13-month periods in the instrumental record were both centered in the past 12-months. Does it mean anything? Not much on its own, no.

Which is normal events in the ice age cycle. As the article I pasted from Pravda points out...that cyclical warming pattern precedes the shift into the next 11,000 year phase of the ice age cycle. If we are in fact moving into a new ice age, we will be having longer, colder winters and shorter hotter summers.

[ February 07, 2011, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: Daruma28 ]

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G2
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quote:
Originally posted by JWatts:
Daruma, I think the evidence for a magnetic pole shift is pretty shaky.

J, the evidence is extraordinarily strong. There is sufficient historical data showing this has happened before numerous times. There is no doubt this is happening - airports even have to occasionally adjust runway identifiers due to pole drift just as was done in Tampa, Fl last month. Shifting of the poles is, as far as I know, an uncontested natural phenomena:
quote:
The geological record shows that it flips from time to time, with the south pole becoming the north, and vice versa. On average, such reversals take place every 500,000 years, but there is no discernible pattern. Flips have happened as close together as 50,000 years, though the last one was 780,000 years ago. But, as discussed at the Greenland Space Science Symposium, held in Kangerlussuaq this week, the signs are that another flip is coming soon."
What's it all mean:
quote:
...the start of a new Ice Age is marked by a magnetic pole reversal, increased volcanic activity, larger and more frequent earthquakes, tsunamis, colder winters, superstorms and the halting of the Chandler wobble.

Unfortunately, all of those conditions are being met.

The Chandler wobble is the wobble of the earth on its axis and it stopped about January 8, 2006.
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michaellve
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quote:
When I said unprecedented, I meant many places around the globe have hit record lows, places are experiencing unusual colder weather.

quote:
Cracks in the magnetic ionosphere are causing these giant superstorms that have buried the upper latitudes in snow, and caused the biblical flooding and largest cyclone in living memory to make landfall in Australia.
quote:
Oh the irony. Perhaps you've failed to notice that this is in fact a rather unprecedented winter. Record low temperatures and snowfall all over the world.
None of the weather during the past year is unprecedented. The weather may be unusual but not unprecedented.
Also, you continue to use this one winter as a way to refute global climate change, this is a poor argument as one data point (which one winter is) does not make a trend.

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vegimo
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The Chandler Wobble did not stop in 2006.
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JWatts
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quote:
Originally posted by G2:
quote:
Originally posted by JWatts:
Daruma, I think the evidence for a magnetic pole shift is pretty shaky.

J, the evidence is extraordinarily strong. There is sufficient historical data showing this has happened before numerous times.
My apologies, but I was loose in my terminology. I didn't mean a pole shift which as you point out is a normal process. I meant that I haven't seen any substantial evidence that we are close to a Geomagnetic reversal or that such a reversal would have significant effects.
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LetterRip
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Are there any legit sources that predict a near term pole reversal? Or for that matter that predict catastrophic results?

When googling it I can only find freep, and similar sites, not particularly known for their rigorous examination of facts and claims.

The wikipedia article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_reversal

doesn't have anything that suggests a near term flip, I checked arxiv (where physicists put preprints of their papers) and the only paper that mentioned Chandler wobble didn't have anything to do with predicting pole reversals (also the physics of Chandler wobble seem to imply that it would never 'stop').

Even articles linked to by your source don't predict a near term reversal.

http://www.economist.com/node/9143913

The source for the claim that the 'Chandler Wobble stopped' is what appears to be a nutter, here is the title of one of many such articles

quote:
DELIBERATE MANIPULATION OF OUR SUN BY HIGHLY ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY?
That explain that the changes in the sun are being manipulated by advanced alien technology.

http://www.greatdreams.com/solar/changing_sun.htm

The original article writer of what you've referenced appears to not write science articles in general, and doesn't appear to understand science. He is however happy to report tabloid 'science' articles such as

http://www.helium.com/items/2078149-astronomers-now-predict-killer-asteroid-will-hit-earth-in-2036

http://www.helium.com/items/2077281-jesus-image-appearing-on-moon-ignites-doomsday-fears-in-india

http://www.helium.com/items/1808054-do-artifacts-exist-that-prove-time-travel-is-real

http://www.helium.com/items/2024681-live-dinosaur-hunted-by-police-on-volcanic-island

http://www.helium.com/items/1618071-mystery-of-the-alien-starchild-skull

He has some less bizarre articles, but the point being that he doesn't seem to differentiate between good science reporting, and nutter tabloid articles.

[ February 07, 2011, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: LetterRip ]

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JoshuaD
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Daruma: Your answer is disjointed. Your proposed solution, stockpiling, only addresses a temporary lapse in the normal flow of society. If you really believe that the government is going to start rounding up citizens or that a second Ice Age is imminent, your solution doesn't work: you can't stockpile enough food to outlast an ice-age, and stockpiling ammunition won't help you if the government's determined to kill you.

So my question is this: Your original post was a warning that the poles will shift, and as a result the world's going to be covered in snow. What purpose is this post serving other than to raise people's level of anxiety?

Do you have a proposed solution to this problem? Does anyone? Is there anything an individual can do in such a scenario other than die?

If not, why the hell are you talking about it? It's depressing and death is unavoidable if it happens.

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DonaldD
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Death is always unavoidable, regardless of whether it happens...
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JoshuaD
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and....?
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cherrypoptart
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Move South. Maybe to Mexico. I hope they keep their side of the border as undefended when it's the gringos trying to sneak across the other way.

Also, we might start working on the Atlantean Bubble Cities.

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DonaldD
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I just wanted to be depressing. Just call me Marvin.
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LetterRip
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Daruma,

regarding magnetic fields and fish/sea life.

The fluctuations and time scales are comparable to previous fluctuations so the impact on navigation should be essentially a non issue.

Similarly the impact on the usage of magnetic fields for prey detection should be a non issue.

It appears that your source doesn't understand the science at all (her field is SEO optimization according to her bio).

It is rather depressing to me that you can't differentiate between random speculation by non scientists and science.

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Daruma28
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Josh - the reason why I say stockpile is to survive the transition from our modern existence dependent on our market system for sustenance and what happens when that system crashes.

Using my island home as an example...we have close to 1 million residents living on O'ahu.

Should shipping get cut off for any reason, the majority of people who are not prepared will be starving inside of two weeks.

Starving masses is the primary concern for civil unrest.

If you have your store of food, and can protect it from starving, desperate people, you can avoid scenes like food riots where people are gathered waiting for the government to get them food.

So my question is this: Your original post was a warning that the poles will shift, and as a result the world's going to be covered in snow. What purpose is this post serving other than to raise people's level of anxiety?

The original post is that it appears that we are in the midst of a shift. No one really knows how long the shift will take, but the prediction is that the process of the shift does involve dramatic climate and geological events.

"Superstorms," increased volcanic activity etc.

But our biggest short term worry is the effect of climate change on food production.

The other point I was making is that you have a large segment of people that believe in AGW and that it will lead to drastic climate changes that would be bad for humanity.

My point is that even if AGW is "real" it won't amount to much if in fact we are moving into a new ice age period, thanks to the cycle of the sun.

LetterRip - when was the last time we've had such a massive amount of die offs all over the globe at essentially the same time period? Sure such things occur in various locales for a variety of reasons...but this past month and a half has seen an unprecedented number of events all over the place.

Similarly the impact on the usage of magnetic fields for prey detection should be a non issue.

It's not just prey detection, but migratory travelling that has been affected, leading to disorientation.

Another possibility is the prolonged and colder than normal weather contributes to the mass die offs globally as well.

Look at this google search:
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=millions+of+dead+fish+river&cp=27&pf=p&sclient=psy&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=millions+of+dead+fish+river&pbx=1&fp=6ff3edaf3d921b6b

Here's a compilation of news story links regarding these die offs since Mid December.

Arkansas. Chesapeake bay. Bolivia. Brazil. Australia.

I'm starting to wake up and smell the coffee!
Here's the timeline of recent deaths that have been reported: what is going on?

12.13.10 - Thousands of dead barramundi fish wash up in Australia,
unknown causes (http://www.themorningbulletin.com .a...)
12.15.10 - Thousands of dead fish wash ashore on Florida beach, blamed
on cold weather (http://www.cfnews13.com/article/new ...)
12.17.10 - Dead fish wash ashore at lake beach in Indiana, blamed on
winter storms (http://www.wndu.com/localnews/headl ...)
12.18.10 - Thousands of dead fish turn up in bay in Philippines, unknown
causes (http://globalnation.inquirer.net/ce ...)
12.22.10 - More than a hundred dead pelicans turn up in North Carolina,
unknown causes (http://www.carteretnewstimes.com/ar ...)
12.23.10 - Hundreds of dead sea creatures wash ashore in South Carolina,
blamed on cold water (http://www.abcnews4.com/Global/stor ...)
12.23.10 - Ten tons of mostly dead fish found in fishing net in New
Zealand, unknown causes (http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/loc ...)
12.27.10 - Scores of dead fish wash ashore in a lake in Haiti, unknown
causes (http://www.france24.com/en/20101227 ...)
12.28.10 - 70 bats found dead in Tucson, Ariz., unknown causes (http://www.azcentral.com/news/artic ...)
12.29.10 - Dozens of fish found dead in San Antonio, Texas, unknown
causes (http://www.ksat.com/news/26316464/d ...)
12.31.10 - 5,000+ birds found dead in Arkansas, suffering from massive
trauma and blood clots (http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/01/03/ar ...)
01.03.11 - 100,000+ dead drum fish found in Arkansas river, unknown
causes (http://www.todaysthv.com/news/local ...)
01.03.11 - Dozens of dead birds show up in a woman's backyard in
Kentucky, unknown causes (http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news/loca ...)
01.03.11 - Tens of thousands of dead fish wash ashore in Chesapeake Bay,
Md., blamed on cold water (http://www.wbaltv.com/r/26357581/de ...)
01.03.11 - 100 tons of dead fish wash ashore in Brazil, unknown causes (http://www.care2.com/greenliving/10 ...)
01.04.11 - Several dead manatees found on Florida coast, unknown causes (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news ...)
01.04.11 - Thousands of dead fish wash up on creek in Florida, unknown
causes (http://www.wftv.com/news/26367953/d ...)
01.04.11 - Hundreds of dead fish was ashore on St. Clair River in
Ontario, Can., unknown causes (http://www.torontosun.com/news/cana ...)
01.04.11 - Hundreds of dead black birds found on highway in Louisiana,
suffering from internal injuries and blood clots
(http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/11 ...)
01.05.11 - Hundreds of dead birds found on highway in Texas, unknown
causes (http://www.ktre.com/global/story.as ...)
01.05.11 - Large amount of dead fish wash up on New Zealand beaches,
unknown causes (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a ...)
01.05.11 - Up to 100 jackdaw birds found dead on road in Sweden, unknown
causes (http://www.thelocal.se/31262/20110105/ )
01.06.11 - 40,000+ dead Devil crabs washed ashore in the U.K., unknown causes
(http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_ ...)
01.07.11 - More than 1,000 dead turtle doves found in Italy, unknown causes (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor ...)
01.10.11 - Countless fish found dead in U.K. brook, unknown causes
(http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/ ...)

01.11.11 - Thousands of gizzard shad fish float to the top of Lake
Michigan and wash up on the shores near Chicago, blamed on cold weather
(http://www.hi spanicallyspeakingnews...)
Learn more:
http://www.naturalnews.com/030985_mysterious_...

There is some sort of very real phenomena that is occurring around the globe that is altering the ecosystems everywhere. And it looks to me like the majority of the die offs can be attributed to colder temperatures than normal for a longer period than normal. This is affecting the food chain and it is affecting migratory species.


It is rather depressing to me that you can't differentiate between random speculation by non scientists and science.


????? You act as if this entire thread was based off of one speculative theory from a single link?
This is a "big picture" thing that relies on many links.

To summarize:

Mass die offs of animals all over.

Colder temperatures on average than normal all over the globe.

Increased volcanic activity is noted all over the world.

Recent observations of the sun note far less sunspots and lower outputs of solar radiation in the last few years.

Here are two links noting the changes in the magnetic poles that MAY mean we are in the beginning stages of the next ice age.

http://www.bgs.ac.uk/research/highlights/southAtlantic2010.html

Here LR, you love to debunk sources: perhaps you would enjoy trying with this one?

http://modernsurvivalblog.com/pole-shift-2/alarming-noaa-data-rapid-pole-shift/

quote:
Since 1860, the magnetic pole shift has more than doubled every 50 years. That is pretty significant. In geological terms, that seems to be pretty ‘rapid’.

Here is another very interesting fact…
During the past 150 years, the pole shift has been in the same direction.

The following fact is even more astonishing…
During the past 10 years, the magnetic north pole has shifted nearly half of the total distance of the past 50 years! In other words, the pole shift has apparently sped up substantially.

As I said before...if all of these are indicators that we are in for some very real climate change, we are gonna wish we really could warm up the planet with our technology driven emissions.
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G2
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quote:
Originally posted by LetterRip:
Are there any legit sources that predict a near term pole reversal? Or for that matter that predict catastrophic results?

No, the mechanism that cause a reversal is poorly understood. Such reversals are actually fairly common happening about every 200,000-250,000 years with the last one occurring 780,000 years ago. One might be led to believe we are overdue but there is no evidence to support that. The only reason to suspect we are approaching a reversal is the accelerating movement of the pole - about 800% faster now.

"Near term" is also misleading. These reversals take several thousand years to complete. The latest reversal, the Brunhes-Matuyama reversal, took something between 1,200 and 10,000 years, depending on the location where the apparent duration was measured.

Fascinatingly, they are generally not a symmetrical flip:
quote:
Magnetic lines of force near Earth’s surface become twisted and tangled, and magnetic poles pop up in unaccustomed places. A south magnetic pole might emerge over Africa, for instance, or a north pole over Tahiti.
Notice the plural, poles and how they simply may emerge. Bizarre.

As for catastrophic results, the same reliability used for AGW can be used for the magnetic field results. If someone could come up with a way to tie this to a wealth redistribution scheme you can be sure we'd be talking about that rather than AGW and the "consensus" would be assured.

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Wayward Son
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It should be also noted that even though the jury has yet to hear all the evidence in this case (much less going out to debate it [Smile] ), this speculation in no way affects the truth or falsity of AGW.

AGW could be going on along with magnetic pole shifting.

In fact, this could be very well incorporated into the climate models that have shown AGW. There is nothing in it that contradicts the basic premise of AGW. The fact that an outside forcing could overwhelm the predictions of AGW is part of the theory. AGW predictions have never been, "This is going to happen." They have always been, "If things continue this way, and nothing else changes, this is going to happen."

If the sun shut off tomorrow, all AGW predictions go out the window. So, too, if the magnetic poles moved and had a signficant effect on the climate. Neither would disprove the AGW theories.

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