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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Seeking a Moderator (Page 2)

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Author Topic: Seeking a Moderator
Ben
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And a belated thanks to hobsen + other mods also!
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TomDavidson
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Frankly, I think the pronounced need for a mod at all is a sign that we should make upgrading to newer software a higher priority.

You give people the ability to ignore, star, and bury (especially if there were a threshold below which buried posts simply ceased to appear without explicit user intervention), and put a captcha on the registration page, and this place would practically moderate itself.

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TommySama
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Yes, comrade Tom! No Gods, No Masters! Join us, Ornerians, in throwing off the yoke and chains of our statist manipulators!

"To be governed is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so. To be moderated is to be at every operation, at every transaction noted, registered, counted, taxed, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed, licensed, authorized, admonished, prevented, forbidden, reformed, corrected, punished. It is, under pretext of public utility, and in the name of the general interest, to be placed under contribution, drilled, fleeced, exploited, monopolized, extorted from, squeezed, hoaxed, robbed; then, at the slightest resistance, the first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, vilified, harassed, hunted down, abused, clubbed, disarmed, bound, choked, imprisoned, judged, condemned, shot, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed; and to crown all, mocked, ridiculed, derided, outraged, dishonoured. That is the moderator; that is it's justice; that is it's morality."

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AI Wessex
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Anyone who works the comma key that hard needs some moderation [Smile] .
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G2
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
Frankly, I think the pronounced need for a mod at all is a sign that we should make upgrading to newer software a higher priority.

You give people the ability to ignore, star, and bury (especially if there were a threshold below which buried posts simply ceased to appear without explicit user intervention), and put a captcha on the registration page, and this place would practically moderate itself.

Plenty of free hosting sites out there for that. Suspend everyone's posting privilege here and make the top level and final post the announcement and link to the new site. This one remains as an archive. Someone could just register the ornery2.org name and let it rip.
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TommySama
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quote:
Originally posted by AI Wessex:
Anyone who works the comma key that hard needs some moderation [Smile] .

Hey, he was around before keyboards. The ancient Greeks believed in moderation, too. Now they're dead.
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TomDavidson
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quote:
Someone could just register the ornery2.org name and let it rip.
If I were interested in a spinoff forum, I'd be at AI-Jane already. I'd like to see this forum be dragged -- kicking and screaming, if necessary -- into this century.
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G2
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The data in this forum will never be migrated to another forum - unless someone around here has a ton of spare time and computer skills. Even then, the meta data stored around this is forum is so lacking compared to current fora I don't think it would work very well, a *lot* of one-offs and outright data mismatches that could not be resolved. I don't see enough value in migrating the data when it can simply be retained as an archive.

If you want to drag it -- kicking and screaming, if necessary -- into this century, this may be part of the kicking and screaming. [Wink] Besides, would it really be a "spinoff" if every single person goes?

[ April 11, 2011, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: G2 ]

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JWatts
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
Frankly, I think the pronounced need for a mod at all is a sign that we should make upgrading to newer software a higher priority.
.

I would second a call for some better forum software.

quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
You give people the ability to ignore, star, and bury (especially if there were a threshold below which buried posts simply ceased to appear without explicit user intervention), and put a captcha on the registration page, and this place would practically moderate itself.

LOL, I think that's entirely too optimistic. Slashdot has all of that, but remains a cesspool of uninformed opinion.
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JoshuaD
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I like our current software. The saving grace of this forum is that it doesn't allow embedded images.
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TomDavidson
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quote:
Slashdot has all of that, but remains a cesspool of uninformed opinion.
Uninformed, yeah. But we're not going to ask our mod to start deleting uninformed posts. And we haven't expected our mod to delete offensive posts for years.

(Joshua, most modern forum software lets you choose whether you want to permit embedded objects or not.)

[ April 11, 2011, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]

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JWatts
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
Slashdot has all of that, but remains a cesspool of uninformed opinion.
Uninformed, yeah. But we're not going to ask our mod to start deleting uninformed posts. And we haven't expected our mod to delete offensive posts for years.

Ok, that's a good point.

However, if you start allowing votes up vs down, you end up with a forum that favors one side over the other. Pretty quickly people stop voting on offensiveness and just vote on who they agree/disagree with. Generally, this makes for less of a debate and more of an echo chamber.

I would like some software that has a better Preview feature. It's really annoying to type in a small ASCII box and then have to click the Preview to see what the result looks like, often multiple times.

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AI Wessex
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I think it's a mistake to try to find a perfect system for Ornery. This place is different, if not unique, when compared to other sites I've looked at. Let's keep the current plan, but I think we should return to the "old ways" when the mod was anonymous. Not that I ever worried about pissing off Hobsen, but I wouldn't have wanted pissing him to piss off the mod, too [Smile] .

One slight change would be to let the forum decide on a regular basis (yearly?) to keep the current mod or find a new one.

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hobsen
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Thanks for all the kind remarks.
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TomDavidson
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quote:
Pretty quickly people stop voting on offensiveness and just vote on who they agree/disagree with.
Well, that's the other change I'd make, were I personally designing a forum software, which is that I'd make the vote values Bayesian.

quote:
I think we should return to the "old ways" when the mod was anonymous.
I disagree fiercely on this. Frankly, I think the "anonymous moderator who lives among us" idea is terrible in all kinds of ways. Not least is this: with an anonymous mod, you still have to worry about pissing off the mod, if you don't trust him or her to be impartial and worry about that kind of thing. The only difference is that now you don't know who he or she is.

Let me again emphasize the enormous value of a simple "ignore" function.

[ April 11, 2011, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]

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AI Wessex
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To each his own. I personally don't like measuring the mod by analyzing his/her avatar. Hobsen is a pretty sterling fellow, so it never happened with him. But there's no way I could put aside Cherry's biased and often objectionable attitudes to consider his modderly rulings dispassionately. Eh, no birther is going to tell me what to do. [Wink]
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JWatts
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
Pretty quickly people stop voting on offensiveness and just vote on who they agree/disagree with.
Well, that's the other change I'd make, were I personally designing a forum software, which is that I'd make the vote values Bayesian.
Could you explain what you mean there? Are you referring to Bayesian averaging? And how would that help?
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cherrypoptart
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> Eh, no birther is going to tell me what to do.

[Cool] [Eek!] [LOL] [Big Grin]

I wouldn't feel right modding anyone (if that's the right term...) because I know how much I like to say my piece instead of holding my peace.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
Are you referring to Bayesian averaging? And how would that help?
I would record how many votes a given person made for or against another person's posts. After some small threshold of "neutrality" -- say, five plus or minus -- each vote would start to be worth slightly less. This would, of course, be distinct from the "flagged as spam" tag, which would automatically hide (with the option to reveal) any post once at least three people flagged it, unless another three people with a non-negative post total unflagged it.

This system could of course be gamed -- as can almost any automatic system -- but I don't think it's likely that anyone would bother unless we were randomly targeted by something like 4chan.

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AI Wessex
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I've never "earned" four different smileys before. I'll have to bookmark this page. You sure you didn't reverse the spelling of piece/peace? [Wink]
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Carlotta
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I like the idea of splitting up mod duties either by type (one person approves new members, another polices posts, another deals with serious infractions) or by timing (one person gets weekdays, another weekends, etc.)

I also would nominate Funean, Paladine, or OpsanusTau if they were up for it. It is something I'd be interested in helping out with, but I don't know enough to figure out if that's realistic or just something I think would be fun but really don't have the time to do. Right now I have to make a point to at least check in with Ornery once a week.

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Paladine
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Many thanks to Hobsen for capably serving as our moderator for so long. Thanks also for those of you who have expressed confidence in me to do the same in the future. I think that many of the others who have been mentioned would make excellent choices.

For my part, I'd be willing to help out but don't think I'd have the time or energy to do the entire job myself. While our previous moderators have handled the position quite capably, I have some issues with a single person having that job at all. If I were to moderate, it would be in one of two ways. I'd either nominate a respected deputy moderator (preferably a liberal) with whom I'd share the work and responsibility while reserving the final "say" so that we're not left with disagreements incapable of resolution, or I'd appoint two deputies (preferably one from the Right and one from the Left) who would handle most cases while my function would be to resolve disputes between them or hear an "appeal" should a member feel that something was wrongly decided.

My own preference would be for the latter alternative, as having two layers of review helps protect against personal conflicts intruding into the moderation of the forum, builds an extra "check" against human error into the system, and distributes the workload more broadly. If the membership in general is comfortable with either of those arrangements and capable people are willing to serve with me under one of the frameworks outlined above, I'd be willing to help out.

[ April 11, 2011, 10:34 PM: Message edited by: Paladine ]

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JoshuaD
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I find the second structure presented by Paladine to be extremely suitable. Aside from the benefits outlined above, a system of that nature would be significantly more robust; the resignation of any one Moderator wouldn't leave the board without any oversight.

I was nominated earlier in the thread, and I did not offer my time because I didn't believe I would be a good choice for sole moderator. Despite the fact that my technical background would be of some modest use in the job, I simply don't have the time to handle the thing myself.

That being said, I would be willing to serve as the conservative/right deputy in the above-outlined second scenario, if the other members of the forum found me qualified for the job.

[ April 11, 2011, 11:20 PM: Message edited by: JoshuaD ]

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Viking_Longship
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I like Paladine's second model.
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Pyrtolin
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I think that it seems pretty reasonable as well.
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AI Wessex
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Paladine's proposal is not my first choice, but reasonable.
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AI Wessex
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Has this been resolved?
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