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Author Topic: Congressman in trouble
Viking_Longship
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quote:
That said, a political figure who hasn't figured out that he can't sext anymore has remarkably bad judgement. That he'd take those kinds of risks just for a cheap thrill that really is the business of the people he's representing. It may not be easy to get an honest politician but we ought to be able to find some that aren't stupid.

That is NOT giving him a free pass. (Why would I want to do that, I'm a Ron Paul Republican) And you just DID defend Arnold. Your argument is that public humiliation is sufficient for Arnold, that should excuse Wiener too shouldn't it?

You're a partisan prostitute and were Wiener Republican you'd be arguing that his public humilation was sufficient punishment, like you are for Arnold. You know it, I know it, the forum knows it.

You just can't argue from any point of view other than whining self-pity.

As Republican I am deeply ashamed we've let Nancies like you ruin our party just to tap into the bottomless well of Baby Boomer self-interest.

[ June 10, 2011, 09:25 PM: Message edited by: Viking_Longship ]

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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by G2:
quote:
Originally posted by OpsanusTau:
I'm really disappointed in Weiner for caving in to the self-consciously aghast media environment about this.
He really, really didn't do anything that is any of our business.

Lying to his constituents is none of their business?
Lying to constituents about something that is none of their business, is arguably none of their business.

quote:
Originally posted by MattP:
I think Weiner will beat this. It'll be hard, but he'll beat it.

Please tell me that pun combo was intentional ...
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TheRallanator
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quote:
Originally posted by G2:
quote:
Originally posted by TheRallanator:
How many people do you know who've cheated on their partner? How many people who've hired a prostitute at least once?? How many people who've used illegal drugs? How many who've picked a fight? How many who've been caught with porn? Not people you necessarily know well, just at all. Friends, family, casual acquaintances, neighbours, past and present workmates, fellow townspeople, that sort of thing.

And how many of them are in a position of power over you? How many of them can tax you, send you to war, regulate even the smallest details of your life and investigate you about them? How many have millions if not billions in public funds at their command? Do you really not understand the difference between the average joe on the street and a member of Congress, the power and influence they have over everyone's lives?
Well there's cops who can arrest us and who investigate crimes committed against us, the paramedics and firemen who save our lives, the teachers who help raise our children, the accountants who make sure our retirement funds don't vanish, the real estate agents who help us buy and sell our houses, the bank managers who look after our money, the engineers who make sure the bridges we drive over won't collapse, the soldiers who kill and die to protect our countries, the chefs who cook our food, the inspectors who make sure the chefs aren't poisoning us whenever we eat out, the auto workers who build cars that won't blow up while we're driving them...

Take your pick. Every day, all of us are relying on the fact that other people have done their jobs well not to kill us or put us in hospital. And if we do end up in hospital, that's a whole bunch of other people that we're relying on to do their jobs properly to keep us alive.

And yet I bet you don't give a flying **** about what the personal lives of a single one of them. When your house is on fire you don't turn away homosexual firemen. When you take your wife out to dinner you don't ask whether the chef tonight is a swinger. When you have renovations done on your home, you don't hire a PI to find out whether the electrician doing the wiring visits dating websites. You aren't flying to Kabul and telling all the soldiers who visit BDSM websites to go the **** home and leave the defence of your nation to good upstanding virgins. If you found out tomorrow that your boss was having an affair, you wouldn't change your opinion on whether he knows how to run his company or not.

But a politician? Or should I say, a liberal politician? All of a sudden, it's a big ****ing dealbreaker and the dude has to resign. It's pathetic.

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Viking_Longship
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quote:
But a politician? Or should I say, a liberal politician? All of a sudden, it's a big ****ing dealbreaker and the dude has to resign. It's pathetic.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Liberal Republicans are permitted to finish out their terms, that and the bad press will be punishment enough.
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MattP
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quote:
Please tell me that pun combo was intentional ...
It was. I was feeling bad for edgmatt not getting the jokes he was hoping for.

[ June 11, 2011, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: MattP ]

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G2
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quote:
Originally posted by Viking_Longship:
quote:
That said, a political figure who hasn't figured out that he can't sext anymore has remarkably bad judgement. That he'd take those kinds of risks just for a cheap thrill that really is the business of the people he's representing. It may not be easy to get an honest politician but we ought to be able to find some that aren't stupid.

That is NOT giving him a free pass. (Why would I want to do that, I'm a Ron Paul Republican) And you just DID defend Arnold. Your argument is that public humiliation is sufficient for Arnold, that should excuse Wiener too shouldn't it?
Let's just review what I said: "He was out of line, he should go ... and he is." See, what I wrote? It's not what you said it was is it? No, not even close. Here you go: [FootInMouth]

quote:
Originally posted by Viking_Longship:
You're a partisan prostitute and were Wiener Republican you'd be arguing that his public humilation was sufficient punishment, like you are for Arnold. You know it, I know it, the forum knows it.

You just can't argue from any point of view other than whining self-pity.

As Republican I am deeply ashamed we've let Nancies like you ruin our party just to tap into the bottomless well of Baby Boomer self-interest.

Yo're the one that's whining, carrying on and trying to find a way to give a free pass. You're a RINO trying to suck up to the left to make points. Here's a tip, they're never going to like you no matter how much you suck up to them. [Roll Eyes]
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Viking_Longship
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"I'm glad that I'm not Anthony Weiner
That is who I wouldn't want to be
Because if I was Anthony Weiner
Soon there would be nothing left of me."
Sung to the Oscar Meyer Wiener song

He's going into a treatment program. Exactly what kind of treatment program is there for people who innapropriately twitter?

Do we have to go through this song and dance everytime one of these guys gets caught?

[ June 11, 2011, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: Viking_Longship ]

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AI Wessex
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Only if he's a Democrat. If he's a Republican he's being victimized as badly by the liberal mainstream press as he victimized whatever woman (or boy) he was touching [Smile]
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Viking_Longship
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quote:
Yo're the one that's whining, carrying on and trying to find a way to give a free pass.
Who am I trying to give a free pass? You said SArnold should go and he's going, after THE END OF HIS TERM. You then argued that his public humiliation was sufficient punishment.

I'm not a RINO you idiot. Your brand of Republican is NOT the only faction. I look like I'm sucking up to the left to you because you're incapable of seeing more than two types of people, conservatives who think exactly like you, and liberals who think like Micheal Moore. Spend a few days reading at The American Conservative and see what Paleo-cons and Libertarians think of you. Right now I consider mainstream conservatives a greater threat than progressives, but mostly because mainstream conservatives are so addicted to the idea of wars abroad and social engineering at home.

I can't stand people like you because you took this narrative from the Nixon era and have behaved like you were under siege ever since. You took the identity politics of the left and remade the GOP to cater to the concerns The media is out get you, the UN is out to get you, the academics are out to get you, the terrorists are out to get you, the mexicans are swarming over the border to get you. I can't respect that.

Here you had what looks like winning hand. A Democrat did something stupid and sleazy and indicitive of such bad judgement that one has to wonder about his competancy with sensitive material. Should have been a slam dunk for you. But you couldn't stop there, you just HAD to get in your rant about how the little hot dog was convinced the "liberal media" was going to protect him. Straight into self-pity mode.

That's the sad thing about the GOP, it's dominated by people who can't do anything but gripe. Ok, so maybe I AM a RINO but that's because being a Republican doesn't mean very much. A party that can be considering both Romney and Ron Paul really doesn't have a clear notion of what it believes.

[ June 11, 2011, 09:40 PM: Message edited by: Viking_Longship ]

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Blayne Bradley
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I'ld like to point out that as a Marxist I actually liked Nixon.
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Pyrtolin
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quote:
You're a RINO trying to suck up to the left to make points. Here's a tip, they're never going to like you no matter how much you suck up to them.
These statements are manifestly wrong in just about every possible way.
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AI Wessex
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I don't think G2 it's a conservative, just a very angry person who blames Democrats and Liberals for some great injury done to him.
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edgmatt
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Weiner takes a break.

quote:
WASHINGTON -- House Democratic leadership issued a deafening rebuke of Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.) midday Saturday, calling on the embattled New York Democrat to resign from his post amid growing controversy over his lewd online activity.

In successive statements, Democratic National Committee Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.), Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee Chair Steve Israel (D-N.Y.) and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) urged Weiner to conduct his rehabilitation outside the confines of public office. Rep. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.) the ranking member of the Budget Committee and former DCCC head, followed with the same request 45 minutes later.

Shortly after the calls for resignation were delivered, reports emerged that Weiner was, indeed, checking into a treatment center -- though where and for what precisely (depression? addiction?) wasn't immediately clear.

Apparently Pelosi and the other democrats have had enough Weiner for the time being.
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philnotfil
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quote:
Originally posted by Viking_Longship:
He's going into a treatment program. Exactly what kind of treatment program is there for people who innapropriately twitter?

This was my question as well. What kind of treatment is he getting, and what is it that he is getting treatment for?
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edgmatt
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Probably something along the lines of the treatment for sex addiction.
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Viking_Longship
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edgmatt I'm guessing that too, but it seems kind of like overkill if he didn't actually have sex.
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edgmatt
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I figure they have a toned down version maybe?

It does seem like overkill. They guy's a jerk, was a jerk before this incident, and I'm sure he'll be a jerk afterwards, but treatment seems a bit drastic. Apparently he's volunteered for this though. Maybe his wife is the weight behind this move?

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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by AI Wessex:
I don't think G2 it's a conservative, just a very angry person who blames Democrats and Liberals for some great injury done to him.

http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2269
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Pete at Home
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Tempest in a teacup. Next story?
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TomDavidson
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quote:
Maybe his wife is the weight behind this move?
I doubt it. The whole "check into treatment for questionable behavior X" thing is out of the standard damage control playbook; it's a way of saying, "I did this, but I didn't really want to; I couldn't help myself." Frankly, I think he's playing this the wrong way, as are Pelosi et al.
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G2
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quote:
Originally posted by Viking_Longship:
quote:
Yo're the one that's whining, carrying on and trying to find a way to give a free pass.
Who am I trying to give a free pass? You said SArnold should go and he's going, after THE END OF HIS TERM. You then argued that his public humiliation was sufficient punishment.
It's about all there is, you want him charged with a crime or something? What more did you want Arnold subjected to? He's out. Wiener should too...unless something does turn up in his flirtations with 17 year old girls that's illegal but right now it looks like wiener toed that particular line without quite crossing it.

quote:
Originally posted by Viking_Longship:
I'm not a RINO you idiot. Your brand of Republican is NOT the only faction. I look like I'm sucking up to the left to you because you're incapable of seeing more than two types of people, conservatives who think exactly like you, and liberals who think like Micheal Moore. Spend a few days reading at The American Conservative and see what Paleo-cons and Libertarians think of you. Right now I consider mainstream conservatives a greater threat than progressives, but mostly because mainstream conservatives are so addicted to the idea of wars abroad and social engineering at home.

Well, maybe RINO is not quite accurate as it used to be. You are a republican alright. Tell you what, spend a few days reading what happens to Republicans that try to suck up to the left and what ultimately became of them (try using words like "maverick"). Did they get the love and adulation you and they so desperately crave? Sure, for only just as long as they remained useful. You need to learn this lesson and stop repeating it.

quote:
Originally posted by Viking_Longship:
I can't stand people like you because you took this narrative from the Nixon era and have behaved like you were under siege ever since. You took the identity politics of the left and remade the GOP to cater to the concerns The media is out get you, the UN is out to get you, the academics are out to get you, the terrorists are out to get you, the mexicans are swarming over the border to get you. I can't respect that.

You think the media is not out to get Conservatives? Why don't you go ask the army of media investigators that poured over Palin's emails this weekend about that one, see if you can learn a little something. There's no illegal immigration problem? Terrorism does not exist? You need to wake up.

quote:
Originally posted by Viking_Longship:
Here you had what looks like winning hand. A Democrat did something stupid and sleazy and indicitive of such bad judgement that one has to wonder about his competancy with sensitive material. Should have been a slam dunk for you. But you couldn't stop there, you just HAD to get in your rant about how the little hot dog was convinced the "liberal media" was going to protect him. Straight into self-pity mode.

I'll point you back to Maddow's show where you can see that there was an attempt to cover for him. Don't just look at her latest where Wiener had already come clean but the early reporting. You can try to rely solely on the personal shots to make your point (see how like the left you've become already!) or you can see what was really being done in the media.

quote:
Originally posted by Viking_Longship:
That's the sad thing about the GOP, it's dominated by people who can't do anything but gripe. Ok, so maybe I AM a RINO but that's because being a Republican doesn't mean very much. A party that can be considering both Romney and Ron Paul really doesn't have a clear notion of what it believes.

The sad thing about the GOP is it became dominated by people who felt the need to be loved by the left and the media and would sell out just about anything to get it with the mistaken idea they were anything more than useful idiots. I change my mind on you being a RINO, you are actually the quintessential modern spineless Republican who thinks if he just keeps giving a little more that liberals will finally recognize his brilliance and give him the validation he desires. Good luck with that, history is littered with the ruined lives of those that tried it.

[ June 13, 2011, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: G2 ]

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philnotfil
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I thought that this description of his problem was interesting:
nytimes.com

quote:
In all the tweets and transcripts that have leaked to date, there’s no sign that Weiner was particularly interested in the women he communicated with — not as human beings, certainly, but not really even as lust objects either. His “partners” existed less to titillate him than to hold up mirrors to his own vanity: whether the congressman was tweeting photos of his upper body or bragging about what lurked below, his focus was always squarely on himself. If Bill Clinton was seduced by a flash of Monica Lewinsky’s thong, Weiner seems to have been led into temptation primarily by the desire to boast about his own endowments.

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Viking_Longship
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G2

You don't get me and you're arguing with a straw man.

I don't want anything done to Arnold. I just find it amusing that you're trying to cast Weiner's dirty texting as worse than serial adultery. I brought up to counter your self-pitying whine that Weiner hadn't come up here because the liberals were protecting him.


I don't care about the left. If and when I get a Ron Paul or a Gary Johnson heading a ticket I fully expect to have to fight them. I have no fear of the left. I'm not advocating moving to the center, I'm advocating not pretending that there is good team and a bad team. Both parties are bad.

Mainstream movement conservatives are well represented in the media, they have the most popular news channel, the highest rated news commentary shows, dozens of magazines and dominate talk radio. People like you who decry media bias and overlook that you have a media machine on your side are as big a bunch of whiners as those on the left who can't stand the existence of Fox News.

If Rachel Maddow wants to carry water for the left that isn't any different from Rush Limbaugh doing it for the right. Maddow and Limbaugh are pundits and people tune in to their programs to get their beliefs reaffirmed and have the news of the day explained to them. Noone forces anybody to do either. Stop whining about it.

I'll admit that the press mostly hates Palin, she hates them back. She uses that to her advantage.

I don't see any major philosophical difference between mainstream Republicans and Democrats in their methods, just in their goals. Your slavish devotion to party and hysterical denouncement of the "Left" are part of a vast diversion to create the illusion of difference where there is none.

[ June 13, 2011, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: Viking_Longship ]

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G2
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quote:
Originally posted by Viking_Longship:
G2

You don't get me and you're arguing with a straw man.

I get you just fine. [Wink]

quote:
Originally posted by Viking_Longship:
I don't want anything done to Arnold. I just find it amusing that you're trying to cast Weiner's dirty texting as worse than serial adultery. I brought up to counter your self-pitying whine that Weiner hadn't come up here because the liberals were protecting him.

Now we see the straw man - you just keep doing what you claim I'm doing. I never said it was worse, I said they should both be out of office. I'm pretty much saying they're equivalent but you need something you can use to suck up to the left so that's what you chose. I think you could have done better but your desperation for validation has made you less discerning.

And Weiner's dirty texting just may actually be worse, sending unsolicited pictures of your genitals to people on the internet is potentially criminal (just as standing on the street and exposing yourself to strangers is) and when you set yourself up to do it with high school kids then we get a whole new level of worse than something consenting adults do.

But let's keep up with developments:
quote:
When Weiner (D-Queens, Brooklyn) was photographed by the Daily News fleeing the Capitol in his Nissan Pathfinder, it was clear the July 2007 registration sticker in his window was expired, and there was no inspection sticker to be seen. Weiner, through a staffer, said the 1988 Nissan Pathfinder was registered in New York State.

Not so, said the state Department of Motor Vehicles.

The New York license plate bolted on Weiner’s Pathfinder - US Congress 9 – had expired as of 2006, according to the DMV.

“That license plate should not be on a car,” a DMV spokeswoman said. It wasn’t even issued to the Pathfinder, but to another one of Weiner’s cars, a Honda, according to vehicle records.

Weiner and his wife make a combined $325,000 a year but Weiner can't cough up the bucks to register his vehicle like the rest of us have to. Not only that, he's switching plates to avoid the fees. Weiner's all for more taxes and regulation as long as he doesn't comply, eh? All in all, not a big crime but:
quote:
Still, as one investigator told the NYDN, swapping plates is something one would normally expect of a criminal, not a member of Congress.
I think this whole thing has given us a level of insight into Wiener specifically and the left (along with their pets) in general.
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kmbboots
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quote:
Originally posted by philnotfil:
I thought that this description of his problem was interesting:
nytimes.com

quote:
In all the tweets and transcripts that have leaked to date, there’s no sign that Weiner was particularly interested in the women he communicated with — not as human beings, certainly, but not really even as lust objects either. His “partners” existed less to titillate him than to hold up mirrors to his own vanity: whether the congressman was tweeting photos of his upper body or bragging about what lurked below, his focus was always squarely on himself. If Bill Clinton was seduced by a flash of Monica Lewinsky’s thong, Weiner seems to have been led into temptation primarily by the desire to boast about his own endowments.

I don't know if that is fair. Or at least unusual. I think that people in general want to be admired. I don't think that bit of vanity signals a huge character flaw. I have sent (and received) naughtier pictures than that (albeit not unsolicited and not to teenagers) and there is a bit of a thrill in being able to spark a response that way.

Of course, being a stout, middle-aged woman those thrills are becoming more and more rare.

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Viking_Longship
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G2

No way pal. You can't just say "Leftist!" or "Terrorist"! anymore and get Libertarians and Paleons to bow and scrape and go sit dutifully on the back of the bus.

What are you going to do if you have to choose between an anti-war Republican and a pro-war Democrat? I am eager to find that out.

You are doing exactly what I said you were. You're trying to imply Weiner is worse, this is the second time. It's unsurprising.

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yossarian22c
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The real comparison is between Weiner and Vitter. For those who think Weiner should resign do you think Vitter have to step down as well?
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Viking_Longship
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I think both of them should step down. If Weiner has such a problem that he needs to go to rehab he's unfit for duty. If Vitter was getting call girls he was breaking the law and should also step down.
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AI Wessex
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I agree with Pete and some others that what he did in private is his own affair (no pun...well, maybe) as long as it doesn't violate any laws.

If G's argument that he is too important to allow to stay in office (because elected representatives are "too big" to have personality flaws), then all elected officials and government employees, including bureaucrats and policemen, should be held to a morality standard. Maybe the standard would escalate as the "importance" of the position held goes up. Maybe it's ok if the cop on the beat is diddling one of the local hookers, but not for the Commish.

Since that does happen and we don't try to root out all such failings, that approach makes no sense in practice. I think those who are screaming for Wiener's resignation as a matter of so-called principle are hewing to their party line and would look the other way if one of their own were caught with his pants down, like Vitter.

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Pete at Home
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I certainly agree with Al that what he did should not violate any laws.

On the one hand, I think what Pecker did is an embarassment to his family, to those that got him elected. If I found out that someone in my employ was doing that, I'd probably fire him, unless he was somehow irreplaceable, in which case I'd bite the bullet and continue to tolerate him. OTOH, I'd be just as embarassed by employees that wasted their time talking about a fellow employee's sexting. They should get a life, and if they've got nothing better to do than obsess about a co-worker's sex life, then IMO they are as pathetic and embarassing as he is.

Yes the constitution protects gossipers' freedom of speech just as it protects the sexter, but it also protects my freedom of association.

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TheRallanator
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quote:
Originally posted by yossarian22c:
The real comparison is between Weiner and Vitter. For those who think Weiner should resign do you think Vitter have to step down as well?

Personally I think that the case for making Vitter step down was a lot better than the case for making Weiner step down. Vitter was a morality crusader. Vitter proudly held up his alleged (and as it turns out completely bull****) personal moral credentials as a shining example of why you should vote for him, and he loudly and frequently denounced everyone who didn't live up to those standards as being part of what's wrong with modern society. So **** that ****. He deserved to have his career utterly destroyed by his personal habits the moment he got up on a podium and started pretending to be a champion of moral virtue.

So if you want a comparison that's worth even a moment's serious thought, you might want to pick a Republican scandal that didn't involve a guy who made his sexual antics an election credential and everyone's sexual antics a campaign issue.

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JWatts
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quote:
Originally posted by AI Wessex:
I agree with Pete and some others that what he did in private is his own affair (no pun...well, maybe) as long as it doesn't violate any laws.

It was hardly private, since he tweeted it to 45,000 followers, though he deleted the imagine before many could see it and it's virtually certain that the public tweet was an accident. However, this is more than merely a private scandal.

Still in the interests of late night comedians everywhere, I would like Weiner to stay in office for years to come. Clearly the voters in his district like a hard upstanding representative. [Wink]

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AI Wessex
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No worries, Ensign, Vitter, Edwards will also be with us forever, too [Smile] .
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ken_in_sc
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I once had a girl, with whom I had a long distance relationship, ask me for a picture of my erection. She wanted to visualize it inside her 'red fox' she said. The idea that men are the bad guys in this sort of thing is wrong in my opinion. I think those girls sent him something and he was responding to it.
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kmbboots
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I have no idea of the specifics of this particular case, but, in my experience, such things tend to be exchanges. I (obviously) don't see anything wrong with such images being shared by consenting adults who are free to do so. Because Rep. Weiner is a public figure and married, I don't think that it showed good judgment on his part and lying about it was both wrong and stupid.

But, sadly, it looks like the Republicans get their wish and Rep. Weiner (unlike so many of his Republican counterparts with considerably worse behavior) will resign.

I hate it when the good guys act stupid.

[ June 16, 2011, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: kmbboots ]

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edgmatt
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quote:
But, sadly, it looks like the Republicans get their wish and Rep. Weiner (unlike so many of his Republican counterparts with considerably worse behavior) will resign.

Dems were calling for the resignation first, and more often.

What Republican counterparts are you speaking of specifically?

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kmbboots
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Well, the aforementioned Gov. Schwarzenegger and Senator Vitter just to name two already in this thread.
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edgmatt
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Schwarzenegger can't resign, and I wouldn't consider him a "counterpart" to Weiner. A "counterpart" would be another congressman, no?

Vitter ought to resign, but I wouldn't call what he did considerably worse than Weiner's actions. Why isn't anyone calling for Vitter to resign? Is he immune to the scrutiny that the Dems gave Weiner?

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kmbboots
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Why can't Gov. Schwarzenegger resign? And Sen. Vitter broke actual laws.

How about Rep. Vito Fossella? Sen. Larry Craig? Both served out their terms. Rep. Don Sherwood?

[ June 16, 2011, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: kmbboots ]

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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Why can't Gov. Schwarzenegger resign?
He's not in office anymore, and already wasn't before the scandal broke. It's a practical impossibility in his case.
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