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Author Topic: The War Against Girls
Blayne Bradley
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quote:

ant to really look at the horrors of the problem, go to the minority regions, where good old Chinese totalitarianism gets mixed with Han racism. The results are *forced* abortions and sterilizations, a singularly grotesque form of misogyny, even by Asian standards (which, admittedly, aren't great). I would think that conservatives would be right there beside the feminists in keeping the state away from reproductive control. I mean, you guys don't even want the state to regulate Wall street!

False. Minorities are exempt from the One Child Policy.
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian:
Pete:
quote:
unaware of any definition of Satanism that could be reasonably described as a subset of Christianity.
Defined as: I believe in God, and in Jesus; but in return for Earthly power, I choose to worship Satan instead.


I've got a rather broad view of Christianity. If you believe that Jesus was the Christ, then you are a Christian. Otherwise, you end up with various sects claiming that this other sect isn't really Christian, because they believe w,x,and y, rather than x,y,and z.

Oh, wait...

Brian, there's nothing that complicated about asserting that Christianity involves allegiance rather than merely a set of beliefs.

Even the Holy Rollers, when they aren't redefining Christianity to exclude Mormons, concede that Christians are those that look to Christ for his/her personal salvation from death and sin. To reduce Christianity to a mere belief would make the term encompass not only devil worshippers, but the devils themselves. See James 2:19
quote:
You say you believe that there is one God; good for you, but the devils also believe, and tremble.

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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by AI Wessex:
You're coming close to saying feminism doesn't mean anything because it can't be narrowed down to an easily expressed definition.

Not remotely. I'm simply saying that it doesn't mean anything that can be narrowed down to an easily expressed definition. And that Christianity can be.

Like certain chest-beating Christians, some feminist leaders employ contradictory definitions of feminism depending on their political objective. Broad open inclusive open definitions of feminism (folks that think that women should have equal rights with men) when they are counting heads of supporters, and exclusive definitions when they are trying to coerce consensus on issues like abortion.

Not that feminism invented groupthink, or even that groupthink is inherent to feminism. Like every other group that I'm aware of that's comprised of the Homo Sapiens species, feminists are adorable individually but as a group are rather stupid. (3.5 points to the first to catch the allusion).

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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by Pyrtolin:
quote:
Originally posted by Brian:
Pete:
quote:
unaware of any definition of Satanism that could be reasonably described as a subset of Christianity.
Defined as: I believe in God, and in Jesus; but in return for Earthly power, I choose to worship Satan instead.

Except that that's devil worship, not Satanism. It's a trick comparison, because the only relationship that Satanism has to Christianity is, essentially, that its name was picked by its founder (Anton LaVey) to really annoy Christians.
I refuse to collaborate with the pretense that the word Satanism is co-terminous with Anton LeVey's absurd and AFAIK harmless little group. Dude, didn't they pick Marilyn Manson as their leader? 'Nuff said. They had their 15 minutes. The word pre-dated Anton's annoying antics. The pretense that satanism refers to Anton's silly little group is as mind-buggering as the pretense of some trendy wiccans that the witches burnt by the inquisition and hanged in Massachussets involved wiccan martyrs. [Roll Eyes] Whatever. Next?
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Brian
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Pyryolin:
quote:
Except that that's devil worship, not Satanism
Apparently, I have a rather broad definition of Satanism, as well. [Smile]

Pete, I will pick "Winifred Banks sings Sister Suffragette in Mary Poppins" for 3.5 points please.

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potemkyn
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OpsT,

Mongolia is in its only pleasant time period right now. Loved it during the brief summer.

Have they fixed the currency situation or are they still passing huge bundles of 10 Tugrik notes around to pay for cab fare?

potemkyn

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OpsanusTau
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I think I might come back in the winter sometime - long-term expatriates here have told me that it can be a really lovely time, with bright sky and clean snow.

I have seen a 10-төгрөг note, and I might even have one; but now I think the more common denominations are 500 and 1000, with a 20000 being the big money.

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Grant
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quote:
Originally posted by OpsanusTau:
I think I might come back in the winter sometime - long-term expatriates here have told me that it can be a really lovely time, with bright sky and clean snow.

I have seen a 10-төгрөг note, and I might even have one; but now I think the more common denominations are 500 and 1000, with a 20000 being the big money.

Jeez, that's gotta be cold. Brrrrrrrr. What's the expat bar scene like in Mongolia?
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OpsanusTau
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Well, I'm not really a bar-scene lady. I have met a number of really pleasant expats; but the ones I have met are slanted heavily towards the science and anthropology researchers (as opposed to the aid people, although I've met some of those too).

It is the coldest national capital in the world.

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Adam Masterman
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
False. Minorities are exempt from the One Child Policy.

Only on paper:
quote:
Officially, the "one child" policy covers only "nationalities" in China with over 10 million members. Tibet, with a population of 5 to 6 million, is regarded as a "minority nationality" and is in theory, exempt from the provisions of family planning legislation. In practice, birth control has been actively promoted in Tibetan towns since the early-1980s (Tibet Information Network [TIN] Survey of Birth Control Policies in Tibet; March 1994; p.1). According to the report, the Chinese Government "encourages" the Tibet Autonomous Region (TAR) to comply with the official Chinese birth planning policy, promoting it through work units and birth control clinics. Since the late-1980s in the TAR and since the mid-1980s in eastern Tibet, the authorities have progressively extended the range and impact of birth control policies (1994 TIN Survey; p.4). An article in China's Population News described the relaxation of family planning on account of "ethnic customs" as an "absolutely untenable proposition". Almost immediately, birth control in Tibet was tightened, imposing on the Tibetans a punitive family planning programme which has led to reports of abortions, sterilisations and infanticide (Tears of Blood: A Cry for Tibet, Mary Craig, 1992; p.308).
Question: do you consider the PRC to be a reliable source of facts?
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian:
Pyryolin:
quote:
Except that that's devil worship, not Satanism
Apparently, I have a rather broad definition of Satanism, as well. [Smile]

Pete, I will pick "Winifred Banks sings Sister Suffragette in Mary Poppins" for 3.5 points please.


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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian:
Pyryolin:
quote:
Except that that's devil worship, not Satanism
Apparently, I have a rather broad definition of Satanism, as well. [Smile]

Pete, I will pick "Winifred Banks sings Sister Suffragette in Mary Poppins" for 3.5 points please.

Good job!
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Blayne Bradley
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quote:
Originally posted by Adam Masterman:
quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
False. Minorities are exempt from the One Child Policy.

Only on paper:
quote:
Officially, the "one child" policy covers only "nationalities" in China with over 10 million members. Tibet, with a population of 5 to 6 million, is regarded as a "minority nationality" and is in theory, exempt from the provisions of family planning legislation. In practice, birth control has been actively promoted in Tibetan towns since the early-1980s (Tibet Information Network [TIN] Survey of Birth Control Policies in Tibet; March 1994; p.1). According to the report, the Chinese Government "encourages" the Tibet Autonomous Region (TAR) to comply with the official Chinese birth planning policy, promoting it through work units and birth control clinics. Since the late-1980s in the TAR and since the mid-1980s in eastern Tibet, the authorities have progressively extended the range and impact of birth control policies (1994 TIN Survey; p.4). An article in China's Population News described the relaxation of family planning on account of "ethnic customs" as an "absolutely untenable proposition". Almost immediately, birth control in Tibet was tightened, imposing on the Tibetans a punitive family planning programme which has led to reports of abortions, sterilisations and infanticide (Tears of Blood: A Cry for Tibet, Mary Craig, 1992; p.308).
Question: do you consider the PRC to be a reliable source of facts?

They are the sovereign government of China, with an incentive to have accurate data collection and reporting. They are significantly more reliable as a source than the he-said/she said of most anonymous internet arguments.

That it's "on paper" doesn't refute the government's claims, or the explanation that exceptions when they do occur, are cherry picked examples of local corrupt officials going beyond their authority and ignoring the vast amounts of unreported/unremarked examples of when theory meets practice.

Nevertheless, officially they are exempt. If there are abuses unofficially it is not necessarily the fault of the OCP, but the fault of the local officials or the local government who decided to enact and follow those policies regardless.

I also find books titled "A Cry for Tibet" fairly dubious and this objectivity. Some internet searching confirms this as the "1 million" number quoted in that book was refuted in "The Black Book of Communism", any book can get published, find me some scholarly papers cross referenced and peer reviewed.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
They are the sovereign government of China, with an incentive to have accurate data collection and reporting.
What is that incentive?
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DonaldD
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I assume you are asking about the incentives to report, not the incentives to collect..?
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TomDavidson
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Yep.
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Adam Masterman
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
They are the sovereign government of China, with an incentive to have accurate data collection and reporting. They are significantly more reliable as a source than the he-said/she said of most anonymous internet arguments.

I wasn't contrasting them with myself, I was contrasting them with a source that was heavily cited. Follow up question: if they are so interested in "accurate reporting", why the intense crackdown on western journalists during the Jasmine revolution incidents? Or, more bluntly, would you like to buy a bridge?
quote:
That it's "on paper" doesn't refute the government's claims, or the explanation that exceptions when they do occur, are cherry picked examples of local corrupt officials going beyond their authority and ignoring the vast amounts of unreported/unremarked examples of when theory meets practice.

Nevertheless, officially they are exempt. If there are abuses unofficially it is not necessarily the fault of the OCP, but the fault of the local officials or the local government who decided to enact and follow those policies regardless.


Yeah, just like Abu Graib. Could there possibly be a worse regime to become an apologist for? I'm genuinely curious.

quote:
I also find books titled "A Cry for Tibet" fairly dubious and this objectivity. Some internet searching confirms this as the "1 million" number quoted in that book was refuted in "The Black Book of Communism", any book can get published, find me some scholarly papers cross referenced and peer reviewed.
Yeah, speaking of "accurate reporting", here's what the authors of the BBOC had to say about their China estimates:

"At the same time, the authors acknowledge that the estimates from China and other nations still ruled by communist parties are uncertain since their archives are still closed."
(from wiki)
[FootInMouth] You are playing the typical apologist's catch-22 defense: I won't believe in any atrocities that aren't fully documented, and incidentally I fully support the regimes right to paranoid secrecy. [Roll Eyes] I'm assuming that you are aware that, when the Soviet Union fell, all sorts of atrocities were discovered that they had been keeping under wraps, and many others confirmed that had previously been documented solely by survivor accounts. Does that fact cause even the slightest bit of cognitive dissonance for you?

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Pete at Home
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(Who do you believe, President Nixon or your own eyes?)

quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
They [the PRC?} are the sovereign government of China

Are you saying that Taiwan is no longer part of China, or that Taiwan is secretly a puppet regime of the PRC? AFAIK the PRC has never held actual sovereignty over Taiwan.
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Redskullvw
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There is always hope Nationalist China can recover and get rid of the People's Republic and its Revolutionary Army.
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Pete at Home
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Alternately, if the PRC is really serious about the "one china" policy, it could always surrender and give up its little rebellion, recognizing the RoC as the legitimate government. [Wink]

[ July 09, 2011, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: Pete at Home ]

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