Ornery.org
  Front Page   |   About Ornery.org   |   World Watch   |   Guest Essays   |   Contact Us

The Ornery American Forum Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » January 23, 2012 Sen. Rand Paul ‘detained’ by TSA in Nashville, TSA denies

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: January 23, 2012 Sen. Rand Paul ‘detained’ by TSA in Nashville, TSA denies
JWatts
Member
Member # 6523

 - posted      Profile for JWatts   Email JWatts   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The denial part is that the TSA denies that he was actually detained. Since, I've been through this process, I tend understand the confusion. The TSA can't legally detain you in most cases, but they'll often tell you that you can't leave until they pat you down or they turn you over to the local police. Most people would consider that detainment, even though the local police will just walk you to the door.

quote:

Kentucky Republican Sen. Rand Paul’s press secretary Moira Bagley tweeted on Monday that Transportation Security Administration officials were detaining her boss in Nashville, Tenn.

“Just got a call from @senrandpaul,” Bagley tweeted at about 10 a.m. on Monday. “He’s currently being detained by TSA in Nashville.”

Texas Congressman and current Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul – Sen. Rand Paul’s father – placed a post on Facebook about the news as well. “My son Rand is currently being detained by the TSA at the Nashville Airport,” Ron Paul posted. “I’ll share more details as the situation unfolds.”

Ron Paul adds, via Twitter, that the TSA detained his son “for refusing full body pat-down after anomaly in body scanner.”

Sen. Rand Paul’s Facebook page has a post about the incident too. “Senator Paul is being detained at the Nashville Airport by the TSA,” Sen. Rand Paul’s Facebook post reads. “We will update you as the situation develops.”

Sen. Rand Paul’s chief of staff Doug Stafford told The Daily Caller the Senator “was detained by the TSA after their scanner had an ‘anomaly’ on the first scan.”

“He offered to go through again,” Stafford said in an email. “The TSA said he could only have a full body pat down. He would not consent to it. He offered to go through the scanner again. The situation is ongoing.”

Sen. Rand Paul has previously referred to the TSA’s use of full body pat downs as the “universality of insult,” and he called on the agency to end the tactic.

“I think you ought to get rid of the random pat-downs,” Sen. Rand Paul said in June 2011. “The American public is unhappy with them, they’re unhappy with the invasiveness of them.”

This wasn't a random pat-down. Of course a sane policy would have to just have him go back through the machine. But generally they won't and insist on a pat down, but sometime they will. From my experience, if they are busy they have you go through the machine again. If they are not, they give you the pat down. And in my experience it's always been a full pat-down.

quote:

The TSA says Sen. Rand Paul “was not detained at any point” but “triggered an alarm during routine airport screening and refused to complete the screening process in order to resolve the issue.”

“Passengers, as in this case, who refuse to comply with security procedures are denied access to the secure gate area,” the TSA adds. “He was escorted out of the screening area by local law enforcement.”

quote:
Sen. Rand Paul’s chief of staff Doug Stafford responded to the TSA’s claim that the senator was “not detained at any point.” “Well, I don’t know what bureaucrat manuals call it, but: an innocent American citizen who was offering to cooperate while also attempting to stop an invasive search was not allowed to proceed without complying,” Stafford said in an email to TheDC.

Link
Posts: 4700 | Registered: Oct 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
msquared
Member
Member # 113

 - posted      Profile for msquared   Email msquared   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Was he allowed to leave? Just becuase he was not allowed to proceed does not mean he was detained.

Now if he was not allowed to leave, he might have an issue.

msquared

Posts: 3987 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DonaldD
Member
Member # 1052

 - posted      Profile for DonaldD   Email DonaldD   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hey Mark. Good to see you around.
Posts: 10236 | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
D.W.
Member
Member # 4370

 - posted      Profile for D.W.   Email D.W.   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Pretty huge difference between not being permitted through and being detained.

If I were a savvy politician or staffer I might attempt to throw a false positive to the scanner in order instigate this type of scenario. It can easily be used as a “look I’m a relatable Joe citizen.” moment or an opportunity to crusade against a system you dislike. Any publicity is good publicity.

On a less cynical note I’m glad to see that recognition and power does not allow you to cut corners with the TSA.

Posts: 3300 | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JWatts
Member
Member # 6523

 - posted      Profile for JWatts   Email JWatts   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by msquared:
Was he allowed to leave? Just becuase he was not allowed to proceed does not mean he was detained.

Now if he was not allowed to leave, he might have an issue.

msquared

From the article:
"“Passengers, as in this case, who refuse to comply with security procedures are denied access to the secure gate area,” the TSA adds. “He was escorted out of the screening area by local law enforcement.”"

That's pretty typical TSA behavior. You are not allowed to leave the screening area. Instead, they hand you over to the local law enforcement. And then the local cops merely walk you to the door. At that point you can walk back in and buy another ticket. You probably can't get a seat on the plane you were scheduled on, but your airline may well transfer your ticket.

It's probably not legally 'detainment'. Instead I would classify it as legal bullying. It effectively punishes any behavior that's not meekly submitting. Most people can't afford to casually miss their flight and then to pay 'change' fees to get a new ticket, so you submit.

Posts: 4700 | Registered: Oct 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TommySama
Member
Member # 2780

 - posted      Profile for TommySama   Email TommySama       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Contains 5th grader language
Posts: 6387 | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ken_in_sc
Member
Member # 6462

 - posted      Profile for ken_in_sc   Email ken_in_sc       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
He was 'impeded' and that is specifically forbidden for a sitting member of congress. It's in the constitution.
Posts: 159 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ken_in_sc
Member
Member # 6462

 - posted      Profile for ken_in_sc   Email ken_in_sc       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
He was 'impeded' and that is specifically forbidden for a sitting member of congress. It's in the constitution.
Posts: 159 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JWatts
Member
Member # 6523

 - posted      Profile for JWatts   Email JWatts   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
An update:
quote:

“Let’s be clear,” Carney said. “The passenger was not detained. He was escorted out of the area by local law-enforcement.”

But Sen. Paul told TheDC that he certainly felt like he was detained. “If you’re told you can’t leave, does that count as detention?” Paul asked.

“I tried to leave the cubicle to speak to one of the TSA people and I was barked at: ‘Do not leave the cubicle!’ So, that, to me sounds like I’m being asked not to leave the cubicle. It sounds a little bit like I’m being detained.”

...The incident started after the scanner Paul walked through sounded its alarm. Current TSA rules would require Paul to undergo a mandatory pat-down before proceeding to his plane. But Paul told TheDC that the TSA agents caved in after a two-hour battle and allowed him to go through the scanner again without additional physical screening.

Link

Since, I've personally experienced this and seen it up close a couple of other times, this seems pretty normal to me. I've been explicitly told that if I left the screening area (at BNA it's a plexiglass cube at the exit side of the X-Rays) I would be subject to arrest.

Posts: 4700 | Registered: Oct 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
UBB Code™ Images not permitted.
Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Ornery.org Front Page

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.1