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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Gingrich professes shock at Romney’s ‘dishonest’ debate performance

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Author Topic: Gingrich professes shock at Romney’s ‘dishonest’ debate performance
philnotfil
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washingtonpost.com

quote:
Former House speaker Newt Gingrich said Friday that the reason he seemed less combative during Thursday’s televised debate was that he was shocked by what he described as rival Mitt Romney’s “totally dishonest” replies to several questions.

In a telephone interview, Gingrich cited Romney’s remarks on immigration, his vote for Democrat Paul Tsongas in 1992 and whether he knew about an ad his campaign is running against Gingrich.

“I think it’s the most blatantly dishonest performance by a presidential candidate I’ve ever seen,” Gingrich said. At several moments during the debate, Gingrich simply leaned away from his lectern and looked down at his feet because he was so stunned by some of Romney’s statements, he said. He didn’t engage Romney at the time, he said, because “I wanted to fact check. I wanted to make sure he was as totally dishonest as I thought he was.”


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AI Wessex
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Newt may not have class, but he sure has style [Smile] .
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Pete at Home
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He's like a few former Ornerians, ranting about an opponent's general "dishonesty" while failing to provide any specific examples. Ornery is well rid of that old meme. Newt seems to be the new Huckabee, i.e. no serious contender for the presidency but only popping in to displace Romney.
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LoverOfJoy
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Fact checking first is a good idea.

Like Pete said, until I hear specifics claims of overarching dishonesty are hard to swallow. There's usually fact checking websites that analyze each debate. I'll have to hunt one down.

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edgmatt
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I'm wondering how many threads Philnotfil is going to start as anti-Newt threads.

I love how all the people who don't like Mr. Gingrich pretend to have a special inside understanding to the kind of person he really is. [Roll Eyes]

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AI Wessex
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Go the other way, then. Put up a thread that accounts for his goodness.
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edgmatt
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I'd have to do at least 5 to match....
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seekingprometheus
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Try one...
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edgmatt
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To what end? There have been a few rebuttles of the really nasty stuff you guys say about him, but then things dogpile. I can sum up all 5 threads pretty quick:

Philnotfil: Look what crazy stuff Newt said/did.

Anti-Newt: Yea, he's crazy, I can't understand why anyone likes him. [snarky/condescending/somewhat clever comment inserted here]

ProNewt: Well, some of that stuff your taking out of context, here is what he actually said/did. The other stuff is insignificant to me and doesn't outweigh Reason A, B, C, D and E that I like about him.

Anti-Newt: Those things are true, but I'm not going to let any of that stop me from insulting him more.

Anti-Newt2: Me too, I am going to insult him also.

Anti-Newt3: Me too.

etc etc.

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seekingprometheus
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So, you just want to complain about how many people despise the despicable things he's said and done?

What do you like about him?

What kind of person is he, really, according to someone who likes him?

In any case, in the end, isn't it actually him enciting the fervor against him? Isn't he embracing a polarizing persona? Wasn't his SC victory speech all about the value of making the electoral process a divisive fight?

Don't get me wrong, Matt--in spite of your "you guys" comment, everybody here has a distinct perspective. Personally, I don't mind a public figure who consistently kicks tact and diplomacy to the curb in favor of saying what he thinks. I do a fair bit of that myself, when the opportunity presents itself.

But when I'm being an as*hole, I don't pretend that I'm not, and I don't go crying about how many people don't like me. And I certainly wouldn't presume to vie for a role that requires public tact and diplomacy with such a disposition.

Personally, I think Newt is a fool, as well as a rather reprehensible individual who has capitalized on demotic bigotry his entire political career--someone who clearly doesn't think certain types of rules apply him, even as he seeks to impose rules on everyone.

I just spent the last couple of days defending Gingrich against the personal character assassination that my many Mormon friends have been posting all over Facebook as a result of his public defense of the normalcy of his adulterous past. My point has been that the personal indiscretions of a candidate are merely peripheral to the potential to perform competently in the implementation of effective policies. Personal sexual history should not be a central issue in determining the competence of an individual in terms of executive leadership, regardless of how the plebes FEEL about his history of personal intimacy, and what they FEEL it says about his character.

But mind you, this adulterous individual led the movement to impeach Clinton over sexual indiscretions--while he himself was cheating on his wife.

So, while I couldn't care less about the personal sex life of a politician, and I certainly don't think it should central qualification in executive leadership--this dishonest hypocrite is someone who has made such a personal issue a centerpiece of political action.

So...bad politician, by dint of the fact that he has pushed bad policy. The fact that he's personally a reprehensible hypocrite is just ancillary.

What do you like about him, really? There's no point in whining about the fact that others dislike him, if you can't put up whatever it is that is likable about him.

My take is that people like him because he ruthlessly attacks those that they see as enemies. I really don't know what else there is to like about him...

[ January 28, 2012, 09:25 PM: Message edited by: seekingprometheus ]

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Viking_Longship
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As I reacall Matt thinks Newt is an interesting and creative thinker whose ideas could solve many of our problems.

He's made that clear on a number of threads.

I personally think Newt's ideas are bad more often than not, but there's more to him than the attack dog.

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edgmatt
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I've already posted my opinion about him in one of the other threads. There have been other people also stating what they like about him in a different thread about him.

This is not a whiney complaint about others disliking him, this is a complaint about the constant use of terms like "reprehensible hypocrite" by people who also claim that they "couldn't care less about hos sex life" such as yourself.

The liberals on this website constantly post thread after thread with backhanded titles, condescending remarks, and outright hostility towards anything and anyone even remotely conservative. When someone else makes any attempt to try and straighten things out or put context to the accusations, a dog pile of more condescension and haughty remarks ensues, and the subject matter gets reduced to an echo chamber of the narrative of the thread which is "conservatives suck".

It gets old pretty quick and I don't see much point into putting the effort into writing an articulate post just to get half-witty remarks and insulting rhetoric thrown back.

And then a week later, a thread with a different name but with the exact same format pops up, the same insults pop up, and yet the exact same people who were in the other thread ask the same conservative who spent post after post defending a position in the first thread to explain his position and show evidence. [Mad] [Exploding]

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TomDavidson
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quote:
The X on this website constantly post thread after thread with backhanded titles, condescending remarks, and outright hostility towards anything and anyone even remotely Y.
It's astonishing how black you've managed to paint that kettle, really.
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seekingprometheus
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VL:

I'd give him intelligence, and I can't imagine anyone arguing with the creativity of his thinking, but that doesn't go very far to establish him as likable, and it doesn't do anything to combat the problem of why and how much people dislike him.

But, with genuine curiosity from someone who doesn't really care for politics per se: Is Newt's intelligence really applied outside of us vs them paradigms?

[ January 28, 2012, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: seekingprometheus ]

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Viking_Longship
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SP

I don't know. I'm not a fan. I'm just pointing out that Matt has expressed an interest in Gingrich which goes beyond "he pisses of the liberals"

Matt

Gingrich isn't getting any worse than Obama does and liberals do in general from the conservatives here. You haven't tried to reign in the likes of G2 or Cherry Poptart have you? Didn't you call Obama's procuring of a purebred dog from a rescue as Orwellian?

Self-pity doesn't get you respect.

[ January 28, 2012, 10:33 PM: Message edited by: Viking_Longship ]

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velcro
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edgmatt,

Why don't you take about 90 seconds to post links to the "post after post defending a position in the first thread", rather than spending the same time pointing out how the people who ask for evidence will just ignore it so why bother?

People who actually want to hear your side may look, instead of assume you got nothing because you refuse to provide evidence.

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philnotfil
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quote:
Originally posted by edgmatt:
I'm wondering how many threads Philnotfil is going to start as anti-Newt threads.

I love how all the people who don't like Mr. Gingrich pretend to have a special inside understanding to the kind of person he really is. [Roll Eyes]

Three so far. I'm guessing he won't be a viable candidate for very much longer, so probably not more than one or two more.

The interesting thing about Newt is that the people who do like him generally agree with the people who don't like him about who he really is. They are just more willing to put up with his negatives because they feel like his positives are really good.

He is a phenomenal political operative. He is gifted with words. He is fantastic at working a lot of extra meaning into a very little space. He has a vast amount of experience in Washington. He has a lot of experience with wielding influence while out of office. He has some absolutely brilliant ideas.

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philnotfil
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quote:
Originally posted by edgmatt:
The liberals on this website constantly post thread after thread with backhanded titles, condescending remarks, and outright hostility towards anything and anyone even remotely conservative.

I hope you aren't trying to imply that I'm a liberal. Them's fightin' words [Smile]
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TomDavidson
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quote:
He has some absolutely brilliant ideas.
Lay on, MacDuff.
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seekingprometheus
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Matt:

I don't care about his sex life. As I said, which you apparently didn't understand, I've been defending him elsewhere against attacks attempting to disqualify him from office based on his sex life.

But the fact that he has led a major political movement to disqualify another individual from office based on sexual impropriety makes him a bad politician in my book, all on its own.

The fact that he's hypocrite in this particular, as I said, is just a side issue--though it explains some of why people dislike him so much.

But you just seem to be complaining about how many people find reasons for disliking him.

And, so you know, I'm not a liberal. I've got no love for democrats or republicans--I actually think that democracy is a ridiculous charade, and that our particular system has fomented so much absurd partisanship that hardly anyone can even examine issues except for through the lens of completely biased competing paradigms.

To me, both sides vote for their puppet of preference based on silly emotional judgments which end up precluding the possibility of examining any given issue objectively.

But you seem to think that the fact that I think your guy is particularly silly must mean that I'm on the other team.

You're wrong.

He's just anomalously silly enough to raise the eyebrows of someone that thinks the entire game of democracy is ludicrous.

[Smile]

[ January 28, 2012, 10:53 PM: Message edited by: seekingprometheus ]

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TheRallanator
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quote:
Originally posted by seekingprometheus:
Matt:

I don't care about his sex life. As I said, which you apparently didn't understand, I've been defending him elsewhere against attacks attempting to disqualify him from office based on his sex life.

But the fact that he has led a major political movement to disqualify another individual from office based on sexual impropriety makes him a bad politician in my book, all on its own.

The fact that he's hypocrite in this particular, as I said, is just a side issue--though it explains some of why people dislike him so much.

But you just seem to be complaining about how many people find reasons for disliking him.

Pretty much this. Newt Gingrich has treated the sexual morality of other politicians as a job qualification and treated the sex lives of ordinary Americans as a matter of public policy. By doing that he has made his own private life an election qualification and a matter of public interest, so I don't see anything bizarrely hypocritical about liberals laughing at his hypocrisy on that front even though they don't think the sex lives of presidential candidates really matter. If he wants to play the family values card, make political capital out of his opponents' scandals, and trade on homophobia to get votes, then his inability to keep his dick out of trouble is fair game and his political opponents are perfectly entitled to mock him for it.
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Pete at Home
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edge, I grant that Newt has some interesting ideas, and I'd like to see him back in the House.

But he clearly lacks the dignity, integrity, and loyalty to serve as the GOP candidate for president. Not to mention that when addressing Romney he comes off as a mealy-mouthed bitch.

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AI Wessex
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Not everything he says is dumb or objectionable by itself (some ideas are worthy and even occasionally brilliant), but there is no consistency or core principles in the positions he's taken over the arc of his public life.

I wouldn't call him a hypocrite, as I don't think it's so much that his actions violate his professed principles. I think he's an opportunist and a con man who puts his own ambition ahead of principles. The most self-aggrandizing example is his constant references to what he and Reagan accomplished that are contradicted by the actual history of the time. Those who served with and under him in Congress simply don't trust him and won't support him. Calling those people "the establishment" as opposed to "the people" in some dismissive way, as his supporters try to do, is an attempt to minimize the importance of what they're saying, which is that he's simply a liar.

You're hearing people here on Ornery repeating many of the charges against him, but we're not reading from a playbook or hymnal. We're getting it from his former colleagues, former wives, every media outlet (including FOX), and the actual history of the last 30 years.

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philnotfil
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quote:
Originally posted by philnotfil:
quote:
Originally posted by edgmatt:
The liberals on this website constantly post thread after thread with backhanded titles, condescending remarks, and outright hostility towards anything and anyone even remotely conservative.

I hope you aren't trying to imply that I'm a liberal. Them's fightin' words [Smile]
Although I will freely admit to not being a Republican.
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AI Wessex
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I left off what may be Newt's most famous uttering:
quote:
"Any [Democratic] ad which quotes what I said Sunday is a falsehood and because I have said publicly, those words were inaccurate and unfortunate."

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seekingprometheus
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[LOL]
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AI Wessex
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Newt was very clear that he was not going to stoop to the kind of negative campaigning that Romney and the other GOP candidates were lowering themselves to, for instance:
quote:
The former Speaker warned that negative campaigning would send the country into a "downward spiral" during his final campaign event before the polls open Saturday morning in South Carolina.

"I'm disgusted and fed up with the vicious minds that undermined our democracy," Gingrich said of the emails, which was masked to look like a news report from CNN and distributed to prominent South Carolina conservatives.

Deputy Attorney General Bryan Stirling told the Associated Press that the chief of South Carolina State Law Enforcement Division, Mark Keel, has been asked to conduct a preliminary review of the facts surrounding the controversy.

Gingrich also addressed the controversy surrounding his ex-wife, Marianne, who suggested in an interview earlier this week that her then-husband had requested an open relationship.

"I'm going to try to elevate the conversation in every way I can, both with the candidates and the news media," Gingrich said.

But this was yesterday:
quote:
"I believe the Republican party will not nominate a pro-abortion, pro-gun control, pro-tax increase moderate from Massachusetts,..."
And there's this to consider:
quote:
Now comes the counterattack.

After weeks of taking it on the chin in Florida without throwing a punch, the Gingrich side has finally begun to fight back with TV attack ads of its own.

Among the new ads is one from a pro-Gingrich super PAC that takes the personal attacks to a new level, suggesting Romney was associated personally with “illegal activity” in a massive Medicare fraud in the 1990s. The fact is Romney was never accused of wrongdoing in that case.

Another ad from the same group claims that Romney “thinks judges can overrule parents on abortions.” But it rips Romney’s words out of context. He was actually arguing against allowing 16- and 17-year-old girls to get abortions without consent of a parent.


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D.W.
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I would be quite thrilled to hear less about how fat the wallets are of the contenders or how wholesome their family lives are. I don’t want some white collar Ward Cleaver who I can relate to and hold up as a role model. I want someone who I think can react to the world around him, take good advice, stand his ground in the face of bad advice and explain to the American people why he is doing what he is. As much as I hope none of them make it to the white house I am interested in how they would govern a lot more than how likeable or relatable they are.

If “family values” wasn’t a campaign issue almost indivisible from republicans, I, and likely many/most liberals, wouldn’t care about his infidelity. When this issue is brought up we nefarious liberals aren’t out to destroy Gingrich. We want to destroy the family values preaching his party is part of. If politicians must spout the nonsense they better be prepared to walk the walk if they wish to be credible. This also applies to fiscal matters as well. If you understand the daily life of the middle and underclass prove it and address their problems with solutions that seem credible.

Both sides treat us like idiots. We pick the side we agree most with and let each side rip apart the most obvious of the idiocies of the opposing side. This seems very useful until you realize that all we do is elect another batch of stupid or disingenuous politicians each cycle because, they seem like an intelligent and relatable person.

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JWatts
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quote:
Originally posted by D.W.:
If “family values” wasn’t a campaign issue almost indivisible from republicans, I, and likely many/most liberals, wouldn’t care about his infidelity. When this issue is brought up we nefarious liberals aren’t out to destroy Gingrich. We want to destroy the family values preaching his party is part of.

I like you honesty. [Razz]
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D.W.
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And by "we" I meant me. And by "out to" I mean posting here... [Frown]

/disclaimer

Everything else I implied is loathsome motive speculation of my fellow liberals. [Smile]

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AI Wessex
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dw, agree, especially with the loathsome motive speculation part [Smile] .
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