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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Chicago Teacher's Strike (Page 2)

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Author Topic: Chicago Teacher's Strike
KidTokyo
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quote:
Why is the cost of living so high? In 1985 my father made 24k per year and we were able to own late model vehicles and a 3 goodsized house (which he built, but still.)
We've become a debtor society. The institutions providing and profiting from lending credit have become exponentially more powerful politically and economically. The result is a shift in wealth (broadly defined), away from the middle class.
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JWatts
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quote:
Originally posted by PSRT:
Which is an argument that would have more merit if public sector employees compensation rose at a comparable rate to the private sector during good times. They don't.
->
The 74,000 average salary there is similar to a high 50's, low 60's job in most of the country... slightly above an average salary.

It seems to me that if the teachers' salary weren't rising at a comparable rate to the private sector, that it wouldn't still be an above average salary for the area.

But if you have some kind of evidence that Chicago Teachers compensation has not risen at the same rate as the local private sector, I'd certainly be interested in seeing it.

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kmbboots
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Again. This strike isn't about compensation. That is pretty well settled.
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PSRT
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Real GDP growth, US, adjusted for inflation

During the period 1999-2007, GDP rose by about 3% per year, after adjusting for inflation (also about 3% Inflation ,).

Teacher salaries through most of the country went up about 3% per year during that period, for constant experience (that is, looking at a teacher with X years of experience and Y degree, compared to a teacher with X years of experience and Y degree the following year). Elementary teacher average salary Teacher salaries kept up only with inflation, not at all with economic growth, during the period 1999-2008

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JWatts
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I'm not sure how this is particularly relevant to the Teachers striking in Chicago who are paid well above the national average pay for teachers.
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TomDavidson
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Are you suggesting that salaries in Chicago did not behave similarly to salaries elsewhere, and that Chicago-only data would depict a different scenario?
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PSRT
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Chicago is also well above the national average for cost of living. The salaries of Chicago teachers are, on average, a middle class salary in Chicago. Just because the number looks big to someone who lives in, say, St. Louis, doesn't mean that the number provides for a better standard of living than a 60,000 dollar salary in St. Louis.

When we are complaining that teacher salaries are slightly above average for all worker earnings, and solidly within the range of middle class, without approaching upper middle class, we have a serious problem with our values. And yet, that's what people on this thread are doing.

Sorry, but I went into this profession expecting to be getting my cost of living increase every year. When I don't get that, my employers are not meeting their end of the bargain. In return for getting that in economic downtimes, I'm giving up the salary increase during economic good times. Unless you can provide evidence that Chicago teachers were getting between 6 and 7% pay increases per year during the period of, say, 1999-2008, those teachers have been making the same tradeoffs I've been making.

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TomDavidson
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As a side note: a few months ago, I considered taking a job offer in Oak Park (a middle-class Chicago suburb) that would have offered a $30K raise, and I decided against it because it would probably have lowered my family's standard of living.

(I also work in academia, and am a very valuable employee to my college; as a consequence, I get a 3% annual raise. That is the maximum allowed. The only way I could ever get more than 3% would be if I were to completely change positions, and I've actually already pushed for that (and achieved it) once. And I'm one of the lucky ones; our rank and file definitely do not receive 3% raises every year, as our salary pool only increases by 2%.)

[ September 12, 2012, 08:09 AM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]

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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by Viking_Longship:
Why is the cost of living so high? In 1985 my father made 24k per year and we were able to own late model vehicles and a 3 goodsized house (which he built, but still.)

The current value of present productivity is higher than that of past production. $24K was and still is the value of that work having been done in 1985; since it would be logistically difficult to depreciate that pay over time, instead we use inflation to allow the relative value of that payment to diminish naturally as it slides further into the past.

The credit for 30 year old work should not provide the same level of reward as that for current work, which is well reflected in the fact that $24K could, at that time provide a comfortable living, while today it doesn't provide nearly the same real value.

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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by 0rnery:
Current average pay for teachers, without benefits, is $74,839. That's for 180 less than 8 hour days per year. And, they are exempt from paying into our wondrous Social Security system.

You want to go teach in Chicago, then do it. Knock yourself out. But how much of that money do they keep after the union and pension program dips in?
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0rnery
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Ever wonder why federal unions can’t advocate striking or actually go on strike? It's about time that policy was implemented at the state & local level. Then, I'd tell these workers, this is what the job pays, and what benefits are included. If that doesn't suit you, don't let the door hit you in the a...
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TomDavidson
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quote:
Then, I'd tell these workers, this is what the job pays, and what benefits are included.
Heh. I'm not even going to tell you why this is so funny. [Smile]
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Pete at Home
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Funny that is. Tell you why, Tom will not. To get Tom to share his vast knowledge, beg you must.
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yossarian22c
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Hint: try negotiating your salary or benefits when being hired by a state or local government. Odds are there is no one who has the legal authority to adjust your salary or benefits in any meaningful way.
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philnotfil
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quote:
Originally posted by yossarian22c:
Hint: try negotiating your salary or benefits when being hired by a state or local government. Odds are there is no one who has the legal authority to adjust your salary or benefits in any meaningful way.

This is true. The salary is what it is. The benefits are what they are. You know that going in (unless you were too dumb to look it up when you were applying for the job, or so desperate for a job that you didn't care). The best that you can hope for is to get them to accept another year or two of your work experience.
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0rnery
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Yes, it is hilarious State workers can "obstruct the operations of Government until their demands are satisfied." Yet, illegal at the Federal level.
quote:
I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of Government employees. Upon employees in the Federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people, whose interests and welfare require orderliness and continuity in the conduct of Government activities. This obligation is paramount. Since their own services have to do with the functioning of the Government, a strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government until their demands are satisfied. Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government by those who have sworn to support it, is unthinkable and intolerable.
We're only disrupting the welfare of 3 million people at this local level. [Roll Eyes]
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TomDavidson
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Rahm started it, I'm afraid:
http://www.chicagoreader.com/gyrobase/mayor-emanuel-pushes-chicago-teachers-toward-strike/Content?oid=7412909&showFullText=true

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