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Author Topic: US Embassy apologizes to Islamicists
starLisa
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http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/11/world/meast/egpyt-us-embassy-protests/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Get this. Try and digest this. Because this is the work of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.

Islamic nut jobs went bugf**k because Egyptian Arabs in the US are making a movie about 9/11 that they think insults Muhammed the Pedophile. They stormed the US Embassy in Cairo. Climbed the embassy walls, tore down the American flag, and put up a black flag with the Islamic creed on it.

The US Embassy, responding to these events, condemned "the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims -- as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions." They didn't condemn the freaking IslamoNazis who stormed the US Embassy over a film being made. No. They apologized to them.

One last point. This atrocity, which comes to us courtesy of Hillary "I loved the PLO back before it was popular" Clinton and Barack "I never met a Muslim despot I wouldn't bow down to" Obama, happened on 9/11.

Oh, and to add icing, the US government is allowing Ahmedinajad in to speak, and Obama has refused to meet with Bibi Netanyahu on his coming visit to the US. Anyone who says that Obama is a friend of Israel is an ass.

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KidTokyo
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Well, who can turn down an invitation to discuss like this one? Your post just screams "I am prepared for a nuanced, open-minded discussion on the many sides of this complicated topic," and "I am a pleasant conversationalist to boot!"
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philnotfil
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quote:
Originally posted by KidTokyo:
Well, who can turn down an invitation to discuss like this one? Your post just screams "I am prepared for a nuanced, open-minded discussion on the many sides of this complicated topic," and "I am a pleasant conversationalist to boot!"

That was more politely worded than what I was going to say [Smile]
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Ron Lambert
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At this point, I absolutely cannot understand why anyone in America who is Jewish would persist in voting for Democrats in general, and for Barack Obama in particular.
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Pete at Home
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Damn. I didn't think Barry had the stones to snub Bibi. Especially not during an election year. Maybe he decided he didn't want the job?

[ September 11, 2012, 07:59 PM: Message edited by: Pete at Home ]

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JWatts
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In a related report Agence French Press is reporting the following:

quote:
AFP, reuters, Tuesday 11 Sep 2012
An American staff member of the U.S. consulate in the eastern Libyan city of Benghazi has died following fierce clashes at the compound, Libyan security sources said on Wednesday.

"One American staff member has died and a number have been injured in the clashes," Abdel-Monem Al-Hurr, spokesman for Libya's Supreme Security Committee, said, adding that he did not know the exact number of injured and could not say what the cause of death was.

An armed mob protesting over a film they said offended Islam, attacked the US consulate in the Libyan city of Benghazi on Tuesday and set fire to the building, witnesses reported.

The attack happened on the same day as a similar group of hardliners waving black banners attacked the US embassy in Cairo and tore down the US flag, but it was not immediately clear if the two incidents were coordinated.

The protests came on the eleventh anniversary of the attacks of September 11, 2001, when US cities were targeted by hijacked planes.

"Demonstrators attacked the US consulate in Benghazi. They fired shots in the air before entering the building," Libya's deputy interior minister, Wanis al-Sharif Sharif, who is in charge of the country's eastern region, told AFP.

APF

It's important to keep in mind this is one news source and they may have the information wrong.

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Greg Davidson
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As an American Jew, I am voting for Barack Obama because, among many other reasons, he reflects Jewish values as well as almost any other US President.

By the way, when I read Torah, I find that concerns with the morality of actions is a more important consideration than tribal loyalty.

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starLisa
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You're doing it wrong, then.
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KidTokyo
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Yes, there is only one correct way to read the Torah, just as there is only one correct way to read the Qur'an.

Oh, wait... [DOH]

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TomDavidson
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To be fair, both the Torah and the Qu'ran say that there is only one correct way to read them.
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Aris Katsaris
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quote:
Yes, there is only one correct way to read the Torah, just as there is only one correct way to read the Qur'an.
Why are you so sure there *is* more than one correct way to read them?

quote:
At this point, I absolutely cannot understand why anyone in America who is Jewish would persist in voting for Democrats in general, and for Barack Obama in particular.
Why don't you ask them? A failure to understand something is a statement about your own mind, not about a flaw in that something: The incomplete map, not the missing territory.
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AI Wessex
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"At this point, I absolutely cannot understand why anyone in America who is Jewish would persist in voting for Democrats in general, and for Barack Obama in particular."

Speaking as one of "them" it really is a failure of imagination on your part. I don't know of any Jews who will vote for Romney among my family, friends or acquaintances. It may surprise you to know that my parents' synagogue's rabbi espouses views very similar to mine. FWIW, I could express equal surprise that a man of your religious principles would side with a party that has such a narrow sense of who deserves the benefits of those principles. But I won't.

[ September 12, 2012, 03:46 AM: Message edited by: AI Wessex ]

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JoshCrow
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quote:
Originally posted by starLisa:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/11/world/meast/egpyt-us-embassy-protests/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Get this. Try and digest this. Because this is the work of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.

I haven't interacted much with you in the past, but I find this statement disgusting and distasteful in the extreme. You can make your "point" about whatever it is without resorting to such a comment, somehow implying the actions of a Jewish filmmaker and a mob of ultra-conservatives is "Obama's work".

Shame on you. Whatever point you want to make about how wrong the appeasement of Muslims is has been soiled before you even began to make it.

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Aris Katsaris
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quote:
somehow implying the actions of a Jewish filmmaker and a mob of ultra-conservatives is "Obama's work".
Don't you think that you could also make your point about whatever it is, without implying that the actions of a mob of ultra-conservatives is the work of a filmmaker?
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JoshCrow
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quote:
Originally posted by Aris Katsaris:
quote:
somehow implying the actions of a Jewish filmmaker and a mob of ultra-conservatives is "Obama's work".
Don't you think that you could also make your point about whatever it is, without implying that the actions of a mob of ultra-conservatives is the work of a filmmaker?
I am not assigning blame to the filmmaker with that statement. On the list of people "involved" in this, I would add the person who made the offense in the first place (without discussing whether they were responsible or not - I believe they were not.). It is a matter of factors A, B and C resulted in event D. starLisa has chosen to attack the letter O.

[ September 12, 2012, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: JoshCrow ]

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Viking_Longship
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
At this point, I absolutely cannot understand why anyone in America who is Jewish would persist in voting for Democrats in general, and for Barack Obama in particular.

Well if your main concern is Isreal perhaps because Romney is proposing interventing militarily to assist the Syrian rebels despite the fact that many of them are Islamists?
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D.W.
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quote:
Damn. I didn't think Barry had the stones to snub Bibi. Especially not during an election year. Maybe he decided he didn't want the job?
Pete, having the stones to do so is one of the traits I desire in a commander in chief. Lisa’s accusation paints a person who no longer wants the job. Yours sounds like a real leader unwilling to cave to outside pressure.
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DonaldD
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quote:
Originally posted by starLisa:
slamic nut jobs went bugf**k because Egyptian Arabs in the US are making a movie about 9/11 that they think insults Muhammed

Is this accurate, though? I heard on the radio that the movie had already been made and shown, and it was created (not sure if that was directed or produced by) an Israeli Jew in the USA.

Edit:
Yes, from the very CNN article that Lisa linked to:
quote:
The movie was made by Sam Bacile, an Israeli-American real-estate developer, according to the Wall Street Journal.
Bacile -- who wrote, directed and produced the film -- said he wanted to showcase his view of Islam as a hateful religion, the Journal reported, citing a telephone interview with him.

Lisa, how did you misrepresent that so badly? Was the CNN article changed since the OP? If not, that's a pretty serious misrepresentation.

[ September 12, 2012, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: DonaldD ]

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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by D.W.:
quote:
Damn. I didn't think Barry had the stones to snub Bibi. Especially not during an election year. Maybe he decided he didn't want the job?
Pete, having the stones to do so is one of the traits I desire in a commander in chief. Lisa’s accusation paints a person who no longer wants the job. Yours sounds like a real leader unwilling to cave to outside pressure.
Precisely. It can be spun either way, and will be. As was the same trait did in his predecessor, George W. Bush.
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by Aris Katsaris:
quote:
somehow implying the actions of a Jewish filmmaker and a mob of ultra-conservatives is "Obama's work".
Don't you think that you could also make your point about whatever it is, without implying that the actions of a mob of ultra-conservatives is the work of a filmmaker?
I agree.

Look at the timing of this riot. The film is a bloody pretext. By SIMULTANEOUSLY attacking TWO US embassies on SEPTEMBER ELEVENTH, they are proclaiming either that they are affiliated with AQ or that they sympathize with AQ.

In the past, more than anyone else on this forum, I've vigorously defended Obama against the charge of being soft on defense. I won't this time. And what the hell is Hillary thinking?

Snubbing Bibi, though, that's a two way street. Bibi's been snubbing Obama for quite some time.

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DonaldD
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quote:
They didn't condemn the freaking IslamoNazis who stormed the US Embassy over a film being made. No. They apologized to them
Actually, this is another misrepresentation that Lisa should have fact-checked before making. Press release: Obama condemns attack

Also, condemning a film maker for being an irresponsible prick is NOT an apology. Actions like this, putting US lives in danger, when GWB was president would also have been roundly decried as irresponsible, but pointing it out now is somehow an apology... I sense convenient election-year posing.

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G3
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quote:
Originally posted by Pete at Home:
Look at the timing of this riot. The film is a bloody pretext. By SIMULTANEOUSLY attacking TWO US embassies on SEPTEMBER ELEVENTH, they are proclaiming either that they are affiliated with AQ or that they sympathize with AQ.

Well, it could be a message or just the way Muslims celebrate 9/11 in their traditional way ... by killing Americans. It's hard to tell with the "religion of peace".
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by DonaldD:
quote:
Originally posted by starLisa:
slamic nut jobs went bugf**k because Egyptian Arabs in the US are making a movie about 9/11 that they think insults Muhammed

Is this accurate, though? I heard on the radio that the movie had already been made and shown, and it was created (not sure if that was directed or produced by) an Israeli Jew in the USA.

Edit:
Yes, from the very CNN article that Lisa linked to:
quote:
The movie was made by Sam Bacile, an Israeli-American real-estate developer, according to the Wall Street Journal.
Bacile -- who wrote, directed and produced the film -- said he wanted to showcase his view of Islam as a hateful religion, the Journal reported, citing a telephone interview with him.

Lisa, how did you misrepresent that so badly? Was the CNN article changed since the OP? If not, that's a pretty serious misrepresentation.

<deleting my previous post inquiring for your justification for the "irresponsible prick" term>
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
To be fair, both the Torah and the Qu'ran say that there is only one correct way to read them.

Where does the Torah say that? For that matter, where does the Qu'ran say that?

And if you use the word of fundamentalist commentators to prove that the texts "say" that, you're bootstrapping, neh?

[ September 12, 2012, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: Pete at Home ]

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Wayward Son
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Well, just because there is only one way to read these religious text doesn't mean any human knows what that way is. [Wink]
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starLisa
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quote:
Originally posted by DonaldD:
quote:
Originally posted by starLisa:
slamic nut jobs went bugf**k because Egyptian Arabs in the US are making a movie about 9/11 that they think insults Muhammed

Is this accurate, though? I heard on the radio that the movie had already been made and shown, and it was created (not sure if that was directed or produced by) an Israeli Jew in the USA.

Edit:
Yes, from the very CNN article that Lisa linked to:
quote:
The movie was made by Sam Bacile, an Israeli-American real-estate developer, according to the Wall Street Journal.
Bacile -- who wrote, directed and produced the film -- said he wanted to showcase his view of Islam as a hateful religion, the Journal reported, citing a telephone interview with him.

Lisa, how did you misrepresent that so badly? Was the CNN article changed since the OP? If not, that's a pretty serious misrepresentation.

Actually, yes, it was.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/435495/innocence-of-muslims-filkmmaker-traced/

And what exactly does that minor detail have to do with anything? Please tell me you really believe that it's just a coincidence that these riots occurred on 9/11.

[ September 12, 2012, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: starLisa ]

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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by Wayward Son:
Well, just because there is only one way to read these religious text doesn't mean any human knows what that way is. [Wink]

That presumes that there's only one way to read the religious texts. But anyone that says that about, say, the prophet Isaiah, is woefully uneducated (since Isaiah is clearly speaking about a number of events, some of which occurred prior to the writing, some of which have occurred since the writing, and some of which have not yet occurred. For example, Isaiah's prophesy that one day there will be a great nation whose many "chariots" all suddenly stop moving). But that aside, there's still the question of whether the texts themselves say that there is only one way to interpret them, or if that's simply an assumption of fundamentalism.

The counterpart to your statement is that just because there are multiple valid ways to read a scripture does not mean that there are not some WRONG ways to read the scripture.

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Pete at Home
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Lisa, I love that Pakistani news source you just gave us. Beligerent Pakbandits battle mysterious man with "anti-muslim" Moustache

[ September 12, 2012, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: Pete at Home ]

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TomDavidson
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quote:
Where does the Torah say that? For that matter, where does the Qu'ran say that?
I'd look up chapter and verse for you (such as they are), but honestly I'll defer to Lisa, here, since I am absolutely certain that she can tell you. [Smile]
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KidTokyo
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Aris, regardless of the intentions of the author or authors, there's more than one way to read any text, especially a complex historical, mythological, or spiritual text.
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
Where does the Torah say that? For that matter, where does the Qu'ran say that?
I'd look up chapter and verse for you (such as they are), but honestly I'll defer to Lisa, here, since I am absolutely certain that she can tell you. [Smile]
Like I said above, your deference is proof that your assertion is based on circular logic. So please do look up Chapter and Verse in the Torah if there is any substance to your claim.
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TomDavidson
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quote:
Like I said above, your deference is proof that your assertion is based on circular logic.
You have an interesting definition of "proof." [Smile]
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
Like I said above, your deference is proof that your assertion is based on circular logic.
You have an interesting definition of "proof." [Smile]
If you find that interesting, then you should find the dictionary fascinating.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/proof

quote:

proof
  Use Proof in a sentence Origin
proof
   [proof] Show IPA
noun
1.
evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth.
2.
anything serving as such evidence: What proof do you have?

3.
the act of testing or making trial of anything; test; trial: to put a thing to the proof.
4.
the establishment of the truth of anything; demonstration.
5.
Law . (in judicial proceedings) evidence having probative weight.


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Wayward Son
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Say, Lisa, would it matter if the apology to the attackers from the U.S. Embassy apparently was given several hours before the attack?

Or does the timing matter at all? [Smile]

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JWatts
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quote:
Originally posted by Wayward Son:
Say, Lisa, would it matter if the apology to the attackers from the U.S. Embassy apparently was given several hours before the attack?

Or does the timing matter at all? [Smile]

I think that would be a better point if the embassy hadn't reiterated the message after the attack.
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starLisa
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
Where does the Torah say that? For that matter, where does the Qu'ran say that?
I'd look up chapter and verse for you (such as they are), but honestly I'll defer to Lisa, here, since I am absolutely certain that she can tell you. [Smile]
Actually, my Qur'an skills are a little weak. I will say that the apostrophe goes between the r and the a, because it's a glottal stop there, but that's the best I can do off the cuff.

As far as the Torah, check out Pirkei Avot. We don't actually say there's only one way to read it. We say that the Torah has 70 faces (or facets; it's the same word in Hebrew). Which means that everything in the Torah is multilayered, and there's more than one valid way to look at it. But the number 70 is used as a large -- but finite -- number. In other words, the 71st facet is garbage.

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Greg Davidson
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Appears to be a group of extremists making common cause. By far the worst are those who commit murder.

But also worthy of condemnation is the group who put together this movie under a pseudonymous attribution (it appears to be false that an Israeli-American named Bacile is responsible; indications are that the originally filmed movie did not have the anti-Muslim content which was dubbed in later). More details will emerge, but those who manufacture or manipulate events to intentionally destabilize are also committing an evil act.

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Pete at Home
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"We don't actually say there's only one way to read it. We say that the Torah has 70 faces (or facets; it's the same word in Hebrew). Which means that everything in the Torah is multilayered, and there's more than one valid way to look at it. But the number 70 is used as a large -- but finite -- number. In other words, the 71st facet is garbage."

Does that mean that you agree with my proposition that:

"just because there are multiple valid ways to read a scripture does not mean that there are not some WRONG ways to read the scripture." [Smile]

And also that Tom is flat wrong about Torah having only one interpretation?

Back to you, Tom. [Razz]

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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by Greg Davidson:
Appears to be a group of extremists making common cause. By far the worst are those who commit murder.

But also worthy of condemnation is the group who put together this movie under a pseudonymous attribution (it appears to be false that an Israeli-American named Bacile is responsible; indications are that the originally filmed movie did not have the anti-Muslim content which was dubbed in later). More details will emerge, but those who manufacture or manipulate events to intentionally destabilize are also committing an evil act.

Not all evil has a remedy at law. Line dancing, for instance ...
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Greg Davidson
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quote:
California man confirms role in anti-Islam film
By GILLIAN FLACCUS, Associated Press – 36 minutes ago
LOS ANGELES (AP) — The search for those behind the provocative, anti-Muslim film implicated in violent protests in Egypt and Libya led Wednesday to a California Coptic Christian convicted of financial crimes who acknowledged his role in managing and providing logistics for the production.
Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, 55, told The Associated Press in an interview outside Los Angeles that he helped with logistics for the filming of "Innocence of Muslims," which mocked Muslims and the prophet Muhammad and may have caused inflamed mobs that attacked U.S. missions in Egypt and Libya. He provided the first details about a shadowy production group behind the film.
Nakoula denied he directed the film and said he knew the self-described filmmaker, Sam Bacile. But the cell phone number that AP contacted Tuesday to reach the filmmaker who identified himself as Sam Bacile traced to the same address near Los Angeles where AP found Nakoula. Federal court papers said Nakoula's aliases included Nicola Bacily, Erwin Salameh and others.
Nakoula told the AP that he was a Coptic Christian and said the film's director supported the concerns of Christian Copts about their treatment by Muslims.
Nakoula denied he had posed as Bacile. During a conversation outside his home, he offered his driver's license to show his identity but kept his thumb over his middle name, Basseley. Records checks by the AP subsequently found it and other connections to the Bacile persona.
The AP located Bacile after obtaining his cell phone number from Morris Sadek, a conservative Coptic Christian in the U.S. who had promoted the anti-Muslim film in recent days on his website. Egypt's Christian Coptic population has long decried what they describe as a history of discrimination and occasional violence from the country's Arab majority.
Pastor Terry Jones of Gainesville, Fla., who burned Qurans on the ninth anniversary of 9/11, said he spoke with the movie's director on the phone Wednesday and prayed for him. He said he has not met the filmmaker in person, but the man contacted him a few weeks ago about promoting the movie.
"I have not met him. Sam Bacile, that is not his real name," Jones said. "I just talked to him on the phone. He is definitely in hiding and does not reveal his identity. He was quite honestly fairly shook up concerning the events and what is happening. A lot of people are not supporting him."
The film was implicated in protests that resulted in the burning of the U.S. consulate Tuesday in the eastern Libyan city of Benghazi.
Libyan officials said Wednesday that Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other embassy employees were killed during the mob violence, but U.S. officials now say they are investigating whether the assault was a planned terrorist strike linked to Tuesday's 11-year anniversary of the 9/11 terror attacks.
Nakoula, who talked guardedly about his role, pleaded no contest in 2010 to federal bank fraud charges in California and was ordered to pay more than $790,000 in restitution. He was also sentenced to 21 months in federal prison and ordered not to use computers or the Internet for five years without approval from his probation officer.
The YouTube account, "Sam Bacile," which was used to publish excerpts of the provocative movie in July, was used to post comments online as recently as Tuesday, including this defense of the film written in Arabic: "It is a 100 percent American movie, you cows."
Assistant U.S. Attorney Jennifer Leigh Williams said Nakoula set up fraudulent bank accounts using stolen identities and Social Security numbers, then checks from those accounts would be deposited into other bogus accounts from which Nakoula would withdraw money at ATM machines.
It was "basically a check-kiting scheme," the prosecutor told the AP. "You try to get the money out of the bank before the bank realizes they are drawn from a fraudulent account. There basically is no money."
The actors in the film issued a joint statement Wednesday saying they were misled about the project and said some of their dialogue was crudely dubbed during post-production.
In the English language version of the trailer, direct references to Muhammad appear to be the result of post-production changes to the movie. Either actors aren't seen when the name "Muhammad" is spoken in the overdubbed sound, or they appear to be mouthing something else as the name of the prophet is spoken.
"The entire cast and crew are extremely upset and feel taken advantage of by the producer," said the statement, obtained by the Los Angeles Times. "We are 100 percent not behind this film and were grossly misled about its intent and purpose. We are shocked by the drastic rewrites of the script and lies that were told to all involved. We are deeply saddened by the tragedies that have occurred."
The person who identified himself as Bacile and described himself as the film's writer and director told the AP on Tuesday that he had gone into hiding. But doubts rose about the man's identity amid a flurry of false claims about his background and role in the purported film.
Bacile told the AP he was an Israeli-born, 56-year-old, Jewish writer and director. But a Christian activist involved in the film project, Steve Klein, told AP on Wednesday that Bacile was a pseudonym and that he was Christian.
Klein had told the AP on Tuesday that the filmmaker was an Israeli Jew who was concerned for family members who live in Egypt.
Officials in Israel said there was no record of Bacile as an Israeli citizen.
When the AP initially left a message for Bacile, Klein contacted the AP from another number to confirm the interview request was legitimate then Bacile called back from his own cell phone.
Klein said he didn't know the real name of the man he called "Sam," who came to him for advice on First Amendment issues.
About 15 key players from the Middle East — from Syria, Iraq, Turkey, Pakistan, Iran and a couple Coptic Christians from Egypt — worked on the film, Klein said.
"Most of them won't tell me their real names because they're terrified," Klein said. "He was really scared and now he's so nervous. He's turned off his phone."
The Southern Poverty Law Center, which monitors hate groups, said Klein is a former Marine and longtime religious-right activist who has helped train paramilitary militias at a California church. It described Klein as founder of Courageous Christians United, which conducts protests outside abortion clinics, Mormon temples and mosques.
It quoted Klein as saying he believes that California is riddled with Muslim Brotherhood sleeper cells "who are awaiting the trigger date and will begin randomly killing as many of us as they can."
In his brief interview with the AP, Bacile defiantly called Islam a cancer and said he intended the film to be a provocative political statement condemning the religion.
But several key facts Bacile provided proved false or questionable. Bacile told AP he was 56 but identified himself on his YouTube profile as 74. Bacile said he is a real estate developer, but Bacile does not appear in searches of California state licenses, including the Department of Real Estate.
Hollywood and California film industry groups and permit agencies said they had no records of the project under the name "Innocence of Muslims," but a Los Angeles film permit agency later found a record of a movie filmed in Los Angeles last year under the working title "Desert Warriors."
A man who answered a phone listed for the Vine Theater, a faded Hollywood movie house, confirmed that the film had run for a least a day, and possibly longer, several months ago, arranged by a customer known as "Sam."
Google Inc., which owns YouTube, pulled down the video Wednesday in Egypt, citing a legal complaint. It was still accessible in the U.S. and other countries.
Klein told the AP that he vowed to help make the movie but warned the filmmaker that "you're going to be the next Theo van Gogh." Van Gogh was a Dutch filmmaker killed by a Muslim extremist in 2004 after making a film that was perceived as insulting to Islam.
"We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen," Klein said.
Braun reported from Washington. Associated Press writers Shaya Tayefe Mohajer and Michael Blood in Los Angeles, Tamara Lush in Tampa, Fla., and AP researcher Rhonda Shafner in New York contributed to this report.


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