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Pete at Home
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I'd not be surprised if they dubbed the movie themselves. The coptic guy accused of translating the movie into Arabic can't speak for himself; Egyptian police are torturing him.
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seekingprometheus
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While I have trouble believing in coincidences (like Anti-American riots spontaneously breaking out in Muslim countries on 9/11), it doesn't lead toward unwarranted conspiracy leaps.

I wouldn't guess that the video was a terrorist conspiracy in and of itself, though it seems more than likely that terrorists seized a pretext and made the most of it in public.

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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by Pete at Home:
Pyr, if they planned that embassy, that day, it ain't "opportunistic." In your analogy, car thief opportunistically takes the unlocked car.

Using spontaneous protests that happened to occur on the same day that they had planned to make the attack as cover for the attack is very opportunistic. Unless you're suggesting that they planned the protest in Egypt and some of the other ones that it inspired as well?
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Pete at Home
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I do think that they had something to do with the Egypt one coming out on 9/11.
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seekingprometheus
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quote:
Unless you're suggesting that they planned the protest in Egypt and some of the other ones that it inspired as well?
Don't you think it's likely that someone started fomenting anger at the video to coincide with the date?

The movie trailer had come out months earlier, IIRC. My hunch is that someone started a "look at the movie America is making" campaign with a careful eye on timing it the rage reaction to boil over on the 11th. "Here's a blasphemous video by the infidels. We're going to protest it at the American embassy on Tuesday. Tell all your friends who love our prophet."

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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by seekingprometheus:
quote:
Unless you're suggesting that they planned the protest in Egypt and some of the other ones that it inspired as well?
Don't you think it's likely that someone started fomenting anger at the video to coincide with the date?

The movie trailer had come out months earlier, IIRC. My hunch is that someone started a "look at the movie America is making" campaign with a careful eye on timing it the rage reaction to boil over on the 11th. "Here's a blasphemous video by the infidels. We're going to protest it at the American embassy on Tuesday. Tell all your friends who love our prophet."

It's entirely possible and has the additional benefit of having a pretty clear set of evidence that would be required to prove it to be true. As yet, however, we have none of that evidence, so such a conjecture only serves to provide us with something to look for, and any possibilities that follow from it are pure speculation, especially when there are more simple scenarios on the table.
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Pete at Home
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Cartoon: we need more security on ... http://theweek.com/section/cartoon/0/234327/all-cartoons
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AI Wessex
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So now even FOX is wondering if the video didn't play a role, perhaps a significant one:
quote:
The right-wing is beginning to reverse itself on insisting that a anti-Muslim YouTube video had nothing to do with the attack on a U.S. diplomatic mission in Libya. Republicans and Fox News have scorned the Obama administration for weeks for initial statements that the assault in Benghazi, that took the life of Ambassador Chris Stevens, was an outgrowth of a protest sparked by this video.

Fox’s Geraldo Rivera went against that narrative yesterday morning. After Fox and Friends host Steve Doocy once again mocked the notion that the video was an impetus for the attack, Rivera instead presented the idea that it was in fact both a reaction to the video and a terrorist attack. The hosts quickly attempted to pull Rivera back on-message after he completed explaining his theory, but couldn’t persuade him to drop it completely.

Fox News reporter Peter Doocy later also reported that the attack may have been “tied to that anti-Islamic video”, a short film, purported to be part of a full length movie known as “The Innocence of Muslims,” and its derogatory portrayal of the Prophet Mohammed.

video embedded

The grudging change comes on the heels of several new reports that cut through the simplicity of the Republican talking points. Late yesterday, reporters from both Reuters and the New York Times met with Ahmed Abu Khattala — leader in the Ansar al-Sharia militia suspected by the Libyan and U.S. governments of taking part in the attack — in a Benghazi hotel. While Abu Khattala claimed that he himself did not take part in the assault, he said the attack grew out of a protest against the video.

Complicating matters further are new reports on precisely what the Obama administration knew at the time U.S. United Nations Ambassador Susan Rice knew before she gave several interviews on Sept. 16. According to a Wall Street Journal account published yesterday, the intelligence community began receiving new data the night before Rice’s television appearances:
quote:
Despite their growing uncertainty, intelligence officials didn’t feel they had enough conclusive, new information to revise their assessment. Ms. Rice wasn’t warned of their new doubts before she went on the air the next morning and spoke of the attacks being spurred by demonstrations, intelligence officials acknowledged.

More information casting doubt on the protest element came in on Sunday morning, around the time that Ms. Rice was completing her TV appearances, the officials said. She began taping the shows early Sunday morning. By the time intelligence analysts began to realize “there’s enough here to build a body of evidence that there probably were not protests, those things were already recorded and she [Ms. Rice] was already out there,” a senior intelligence official said.

These new accounts are becoming harder to ignore, particularly in the aftermath of Governor Mitt Romney’s mishandling of the facts during this week’s presidential debate. While many questions still remain on the intelligence and security situation in Benghazi, during the attack and after, the Fox News simplification is on the way out.


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Pyrtolin
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Another report on the matter:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/benghazi-attack-becomes-political-ammunition/2012/10/19/e1ad82ae-1a2d-11e2-bd10-5ff056538b7c_story.html

quote:
“Talking points” prepared by the CIA on Sept. 15, the same day that Rice taped three television appearances, support her description of the Sept. 11 attack on the U.S. Consulate as a reaction to Arab anger about an anti-Muslim video prepared in the United States. According to the CIA account, “The currently available information suggests that the demonstrations in Benghazi were spontaneously inspired by the protests at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo and evolved into a direct assault against the U.S. Consulate and subsequently its annex. There are indications that extremists participated in the violent demonstrations.”

The CIA document went on: “This assessment may change as additional information is collected and analyzed and as currently available information continues to be evaluated.” This may sound like self-protective boilerplate, but it reflects the analysts’ genuine problem interpreting fragments of intercepted conversation, video surveillance and source reports.

The senior intelligence official said the analysts’ judgment was based in part on monitoring of some of the Benghazi attackers, which showed they had been watching the Cairo protests live on television and talking about them before they assaulted the consulate.


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noel c.
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Hmmm,

"This might sound like self-protective boilerplate."...

Now how would they, or the administration get an idea like that? I am sure Barry will clear this up in this up in the next debate.

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JWatts
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Well it won't take much too clear this issue up:

quote:
The chairman of the House Committee on Homeland Security late Friday demanded President Barack Obama release the intelligence reports behind the administration’s evolving explanation for the burning of the Benghazi consulate.
It shouldn't be that hard to release the White Houses intelligence reports to Congress. If the administration doesn't have anything to hide, this really isn't an issue. [Wink]
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AI Wessex
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You mean it is appropriate for the House to trample all over Executive Privilege again??? Haven't they done that enough for political purposes already?
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by AI Wessex:
You mean it is appropriate for the House to trample all over Executive Privilege again???

[LOL]

quote:
Haven't they done that enough for political purposes already?
[LOL] [LOL] [LOL]

I had to do a triple take to make sure that wasn't written by G3 in sarcastic mode. You realize why that was funny, right?

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AI Wessex
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Does Peter King get a merit badge for making another run at Obama, whom he calls "President Bin Laden"? He's already demanded Ambassador Rice's resignation. He's also accused Obama about lying about a federal purchase of a prison. That's just so far this month. Not to mention that he recently defended Akin saying he also had never heard of a woman getting pregnant through rape. He even went further to say that incest doesn't cause pregnancy, either.

You might want to retract some of your smileys and go read up before you knee jerk about that jerk.

And then there's his co-principled House Chairman of the Oversight Committee who was so delighted to get 166 pages of documents that he feels show Obama in a negative light that he gave them, unredacted, to the press. They include the names of Libyans working with the US to fight extremism and terrorism.

You really want this Republican House to have more documents? What would they do with them, I wonder?

[ October 21, 2012, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: AI Wessex ]

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Pete at Home
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I have no idea who or what a Peter King is, and that had nothing to do with my smileys.

"You mean it is appropriate for the House to trample all over Executive Privilege again??? "

This is funny, since the House of Representatives has NEVER in history recognized the doctrine of executive privilege.

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AI Wessex
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But the Executive does. Others who have used it successfully are Reagan, Clinton, both Bushes and (I'm pretty sure, but haven't looked) Jefferson.

Ignore that issue if you like. What do you think of giving docs to King?

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Pete at Home
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I don't think about it. Don't know about it.

What I do know about is the history of separation of powers in our country, and your question was funny in light of that knowledge.

The House has always "trampled" executive privilege, particularly when the house was of a different party from the President. That's just what the House does. You might as well question why water needs to be wet.

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AI Wessex
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"I have no idea who or what a Peter King is, and that had nothing to do with my smileys."

I did, and that's why your response seemed pointless. It really does matter who and what King is, and Obama would be crazy not to invoke Executive Privilege to defend against his pointlessness.

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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by JWatts:
Well it won't take much too clear this issue up:

quote:
The chairman of the House Committee on Homeland Security late Friday demanded President Barack Obama release the intelligence reports behind the administration’s evolving explanation for the burning of the Benghazi consulate.
It shouldn't be that hard to release the White Houses intelligence reports to Congress. If the administration doesn't have anything to hide, this really isn't an issue. [Wink]
See the article I linked above. The relevant intelligence reports have already been released and confirm the administration's position.
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by AI Wessex:
"I have no idea who or what a Peter King is, and that had nothing to do with my smileys."

I did, and that's why your response seemed pointless. It really does matter who and what King is, and Obama would be crazy not to invoke Executive Privilege to defend against his pointlessness.

I never denied that. My point was that Congress would be INCONSISTENT if they didn't try to "trample" executive privilege.
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Pyrtolin
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And the overall intelligence analysis is updated again as the investigation continues:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-libya-attack-20121020,0,95514.story

quote:
The attack was "carried out following a minimum amount of planning," said a U.S. intelligence official, who, like others, spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss a matter still under investigation. "The attackers exhibited a high degree of disorganization. Some joined the attack in progress, some did not have weapons and others just seemed interested in looting."

A second U.S. official added, "There isn't any intelligence that the attackers pre-planned their assault days or weeks in advance." Most of the evidence so far suggests that "the attackers launched their assault opportunistically after they learned about the violence at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo" earlier that day, the official said.


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DonaldD
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Conveniently leaked in the days leading up to the foreign affairs debate... just saying.
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AI Wessex
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or made public to hopefully help clear up some of the confusion. Just saying [Wink]
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DonaldD
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Potato, tomato...
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G3
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A little more comes out...the timeline:

quote:
On September 11, at about 10 p.m. Libyan time (4 p.m. in Washington), Ambassador Chris Stevens and a small staff were inside our consulate in Benghazi when terrorists attacked. The consulate staff immediately contacted Washington and our embassy in Tripoli. The White House, the Pentagon, the State Department, and numerous military headquarters monitored the entire battle in real time via the phone calls from Benghazi and video from a drone overhead.

<snip>

By 4:30 p.m. Washington time, the main consulate building was on fire and Ambassador Stevens was missing. In response, the embassy in Tripoli launched an aircraft carrying 22 men. Benghazi was 400 miles away.

At 5 p.m., President Obama met with Vice President Biden and Secretary of Defense Panetta in the Oval Office.

Barry knew within the hour and was updated in near real time.

The options:
quote:
The U.S. military base in Sigonella, Sicily, was 480 miles away from Benghazi. Stationed at Sigonella were Special Operations Forces, transport aircraft, and attack aircraft — a much more formidable force than 22 men from the embassy.

<snip>

Fighter jets could have been at Benghazi in an hour; the commandos inside three hours. If the attackers were a mob, as intelligence reported, then an F18 in afterburner, roaring like a lion, would unnerve them. This procedure was applied often in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Conversely, if the attackers were terrorists, then the U.S. commandos would eliminate them.

Barry makes the call:
quote:
But no forces were dispatched from Sigonella.
Barry let them die. What a piece of **** this guy is.
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by Pyrtolin:
And the overall intelligence analysis is updated again as the investigation continues:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-libya-attack-20121020,0,95514.story

quote:
The attack was "carried out following a minimum amount of planning," said a U.S. intelligence official, who, like others, spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss a matter still under investigation. "The attackers exhibited a high degree of disorganization. Some joined the attack in progress, some did not have weapons and others just seemed interested in looting."

A second U.S. official added, "There isn't any intelligence that the attackers pre-planned their assault days or weeks in advance." Most of the evidence so far suggests that "the attackers launched their assault opportunistically after they learned about the violence at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo" earlier that day, the official said.


You mean that two government officials have come forward anonymously to exculpate their employer, the commander in chief? Wow. That sounds pretty definitive. Nothing to see here folks. Move along.
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