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Author Topic: Duh Debates
D.W.
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Obama: Listen guys, I wana be the underdog. Underdog wins are always cooler.
Staff: Umm you can't be the underdog if you are the front runner Mr. President.
Obama: Figure it out!
Staff: Well you could tank the first debate that might do it...
Obama: Brilliant! I love it. Great work guys!
Staff: Wait what?

See? No nefarious media conspiracy needed!

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G3
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Analysis:
quote:
Romney did not win his debate because he contradicted Obama a lot. Obama contradicted Romney just as much, of course. Romney won the debate because he was in command, fluent with facts, clear and persuasive in explaining his underlying understanding of the economy, friendly, warm, intelligent, and... extremely presidential.

Was Biden any of those things?

Or was he a confused old man riding a broken-down horse into the Alzheimer's sunset of fading intellect (and his never burned that brightly to begin with)?

Everything That Guy Just Said Is Bull****. A funny and effective gambit from My Cousin Vinnie. Does it work for Biden?

I would say not. For one thing, Vinnie is a fictional character in a comedy.

For another thing, charismatic people can get away with this sort of thing. They can even win on it. Because charisma is more persuasive than any argument.

Does Biden have that kind of charisma? He does, I think, appeal to people who frankly are not all that intelligent and, more importantly, whose lives are not exactly what they'd like them to be. To such people, government is a Rich Uncle Who Loans You Money When You Need It (which is constantly).

Yeah, pretty much sums it up.

If you think Biden won, you missed SNL this week. The meme of the braying jackass is coalescing. If this continues to metastasize for the SCOMAF, then he's really gonna need to have a big night on the next debate. Can he do it without coming off a whiny and petulant? So far, Barry's been unable to do so, consequently I suspect another failure may just be in the offing.

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AI Wessex
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No surprise that G3 gets that trenchant analysis from an article on the Daily Caller that starts off with:
quote:
If you’re a normal person and you watched Thursday night’s debate, you probably said one of two things:

“How the hell did this wackjob get to within a heartbeat away from the presidency of the United States?”
...[2nd sophomoric quote removed for duncelike redundant wit]

That about sums up G3's sophistication on such consequential matters.
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D.W.
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The SNL skit did have me laughing.

quote:
Everything That Guy Just Said Is Bull****. A funny and effective gambit from My Cousin Vinnie. Does it work for Biden?
It depends an awful lot on if it's meant to be funny or if he believes it is fact. Then whether or not anyone is convinced it's fact.

It was dirty fighting IMO but Ryan got out staged. I dislike using meme in any context but in the above analysis the author is relying on the Biden is a confused old man meme. Just as much as the disheartened supporters of Obama were relying on the Obama can't possibly loose any public speaking engagement meme.

You can decide whether someone won or lost a debate or you can discuss how their performance in a debate is likely to affect the overall campaign. I wish people would stop trying to make them interchangeable.

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AI Wessex
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FOX had a psychologist on yesterday who did say that Biden exhibited symptoms of dementia as characterized by inappropriate facial expressions and frequent laughter unrelated to context. So I guess it's true <sniff>!
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D.W.
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I had no idea they could treat being a jackass! Will miracles of science never cease?
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TomDavidson
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I'm curious where they thought Biden laughed out of context.
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G3
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
I'm curious where they thought Biden laughed out of context.

Did you even watch the debate? You wouldn't be wondering if you had.
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D.W.
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I did watch, I'm not sure. I thought the outbursts were rude, but why he laughed was no mystery. <Hint, because he thought what was being said was B.S.>

[ October 15, 2012, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: D.W. ]

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AI Wessex
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If you're a FOX psychologist (or G#) you know that everything Ryan said was dead nuts true. Any negative reaction from Biden (or you - and we will review tapes of you watching) is a sign of democradementia, a precursor of pathopatriotisis and ultimately aljazeimers. Make no mistake, we *do* know who you are.
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TomDavidson
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quote:
Did you even watch the debate? You wouldn't be wondering if you had.
I did watch the debate. Biden laughed, to my recollection, when Ryan made an egregious error or doubled down on a lie. None of his exclamations struck me as particularly out of context.
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Viking_Longship
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quote:
Originally posted by G3:
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
I'm curious where they thought Biden laughed out of context.

Did you even watch the debate? You wouldn't be wondering if you had.
You're right, he apparently the poor guy thought Ryan was only pretending to have the intellectual chops of a 17 year old debate team second stringer. Alas the old man didn't realize Ryan was just being himself.

Biden smiled everytime Ryan said anything misleading and Paul Ryan said a lot that was misleading.

[ October 16, 2012, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: Viking_Longship ]

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AI Wessex
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Tonight's will be interesting. The Obama campaign is signalling that he will be more aggressive, but being a closet liberal Obama will try to hide it. Gack, I'm getting sick of popcorn already!

In the 2008 Democratic debates Biden criticized Giuliani because every sentence he uttered had the same three things: a noun, verb and 9/11. With Romney the template is noun, verb and failure.

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kmbboots
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quote:
Originally posted by edgmatt:
Yes! Certainly! Some people don't believe shooting strangers is wrong. Don't we force our views onto them? Is it wrong to force these people to comply to our line of thinking when they don't want to?

And some people think that eating a hamburger is murder. Don't we let them force their views unto us?
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G3
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
Did you even watch the debate? You wouldn't be wondering if you had.
I did watch the debate. Biden laughed, to my recollection, when Ryan made an egregious error or doubled down on a lie. None of his exclamations struck me as particularly out of context.
That's the party line you're supposed to go with. Most reasonable people saw that and knew better.
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Viking_Longship
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quote:
Originally posted by G3:
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
Did you even watch the debate? You wouldn't be wondering if you had.
I did watch the debate. Biden laughed, to my recollection, when Ryan made an egregious error or doubled down on a lie. None of his exclamations struck me as particularly out of context.
That's the party line you're supposed to go with. Most reasonable people saw that and knew better.
Which is the party line you're supposed to go with, isn't it?
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G3
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quote:
Originally posted by Viking_Longship:
quote:
Originally posted by G3:
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
Did you even watch the debate? You wouldn't be wondering if you had.
I did watch the debate. Biden laughed, to my recollection, when Ryan made an egregious error or doubled down on a lie. None of his exclamations struck me as particularly out of context.
That's the party line you're supposed to go with. Most reasonable people saw that and knew better.
Which is the party line you're supposed to go with, isn't it?
Well, we can just go with the polls where Ryan was the overwhelming winner. We can go with the pop culture references like SNL where they hammered Biden's performance.

BTW, I'm a card carrying member of the "Cocktail Party". The only line there is "I'll have another".

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G3
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Interesting take:
quote:
It’s worth noting, as I do in my column, the different approaches the candidates took to preparation for this debate. Obama holed himself up in a resort hotel for intense practice, probably with more seriousness than he did before the Denver collapse. Romney, on the other hand, began doing townhall forums while campaigning in Ohio. That may make a difference in tonight’s debate, as Romney has field-tested his responses, while Obama has only tested his in the theoretical construct of debate simulations.
Given that Barry won't have a teleprompter either, that was a risky prep strategy. May pay off in the end, who knows.

What I do know is if Barry comes out swinging and looks like a totally different person, people will thing "poser".

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TomDavidson
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quote:
Well, we can just go with the polls where Ryan was the overwhelming winner.
Yeah, if we limit ourselves to just those polls, as opposed to most polls, I suppose that'd make sense. [Wink]
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G3
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
Well, we can just go with the polls where Ryan was the overwhelming winner.
Yeah, if we limit ourselves to just those polls, as opposed to most polls, I suppose that'd make sense. [Wink]
quote:
CNN and CNBC both conducted post debate instapolls and declared Paul Ryan the winner of the vice presidential debate, and Politico has a nice roundup of journalists and media pundits all criticizing Biden's constant smirks, smiles and laughter during the whole debate.

CNBC: Paul Ryan: 56%, Joe Biden: 36%, Neither: 8%

CNN: Ryan 48%, Biden 44%

CNN- Likability: Ryan 53%, Biden 43%
CNN- More in Touch: Ryan 51%, Biden 44%

[Update] AP Ryan 51%- Biden 43%
CBS seems to be the only network that gave Biden a win, with 50%-31%

But you can have whatever reality makes you feel better. [Wink]

Yeah, nobody noticed any inappropriate laughing.
quote:
Via Politico:

TIME’s Michael Scherer: “Not sure debate cameras have been light tested for Biden’s teeth. Best to watch with sunglasses."

Washington Examiner’s Philip Klein: “Biden’s strategy seems to be to laugh at Ryan constantly. Will it work to infantalize Ryan, or backfire like Gore sighing?”

NBC’s David Gregory: “Biden’s smile is out of control.”

BuzzFeed’s Ben Smith: “So did Biden practice laughing at Ryan???”

ABC’s Rick Klein: “Biden on verge of breaking down in laughter when Ryan talks.”

Former Eric Cantor staffer Brad Dayspring: “Joe Biden needs to realize this isn’t a Senate Foreign Relations Hearing. His laughter and condescending attitude is a disaster.”

Radio host Neal Boortz: “Looking like Biden’s gameplan is to laugh his way through this.”

Townhall.com’s Guy Benson: “Will Biden laugh his ass off at the terrible economy, too?”

MSNBC’s S.E. Cupp: “Biden needs to laugh a little less through the Libya, Middle East, nuclear Iran segment.”

Washington Post’s Chris Cillizza: “Ok. I have decided. I find the Biden smile slightly unsettling.”

PBS’ Jeff Greenfield: “Biden has always had a smile that at times is really, really inappropriate.”

Washington Examiner’s Paul Bedard: “Can’t tell yet if Biden’s smirking, laughs, eye-rolling, head shaking, works for him or not against the oh-so-young looking eager Ryan.”

Former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer: “Biden is at risk of having his laugh come across like Gore’s sighs. He should knock it off.”

The New York Times’ Ashley Parker: “Biden’s grin is Cheshire Cat caliber.”

Republican strategist Ron Bonjean: “Biden laughing does not come off with the intended effect. It is actually hurting him. Looks very condescending.”

Movie critic Roger Ebert: “Joe! Stop smiling and laughing!”

Washington Times’ Emily Miller: “Biden laughing when he disagrees with Ryan is so annoying. Like a child in time out.”
Washington Post’s Jennifer Rubin: “Biden’s laughing is losing the debate- obnoxious”

Other media pundits call Biden "weird" and a "jerk."

Nobody noticed any inappropriate laughing. Nobody noticed any inappropriate laughing. Nobody noticed any inappropriate laughing. Repeat until it's true. [LOL]
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D.W.
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Inappropriate, yes. Out of context, no. [Wink] Don't paste our answers onto a different question.
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
quote:
Originally posted by edgmatt:
Yes! Certainly! Some people don't believe shooting strangers is wrong. Don't we force our views onto them? Is it wrong to force these people to comply to our line of thinking when they don't want to?

And some people think that eating a hamburger is murder. Don't we let them force their views unto us?
If they became a majority, they very well could.
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TomDavidson
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quote:
Yeah, nobody noticed any inappropriate laughing.
Is the question whether the laughter was inappropriate, or whether it was out of context? I was speaking of the latter.
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Viking_Longship
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Romney seems very afraid of the audience. "uh uh uh , I'll increase your Pell grants. I turned down qualified male applicants to get some women in my adminsitration in Massachusates, really I'm a liberal...just don't steal my wallet...please?"
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AI Wessex
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Anybody sense that Obama is hitting his stride? No teleprompter, oh my!

Romney comes across as sympathetic as an ad for acne cream.

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AI Wessex
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ooooh, Libya, Romney is nasty............
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Adam Masterman
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The rose garden smack-down was pretty fun; Mitt gets fact-checked in the moment, by the moderator. [Big Grin]
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Viking_Longship
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Romney sure is eager to support the Christian killing Syrian rebels. I wonder if he isn't motivated by a resentment of gentiles. [Razz]
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Viking_Longship
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No I don't really believe that.
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Adam Masterman
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Well, Obama certainly shook off the Ambien. [Smile] I expect that the reviews will be pretty split, but Obama definitely held his own, and he clearly won the last 20 minutes, which will color a lot of people's reactions.
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AI Wessex
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Just in: Obama wins debate 60-40%. You'll have to wait for the polls for the confirmation of that, of course [Smile] .
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edgmatt
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Link:

quote:
Obama said during the speech that “No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation” — but at no point was it clear that he was using that term to describe the attack in Benghazi. He’d also spent the previous two paragraphs discussing the 9/11 attacks and the aftermath. “Acts of terror” could have just as easily been a reference to that. Or maybe it wasn’t a direct reference to anything, just a generic, reassuring line he’d added into a speech which did take place, after all, the day after the anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. Here’s the line with some additional context:
His actual words:

quote:
Of course, yesterday was already a painful day for our nation as we marked the solemn memory of the 9/11 attacks. We mourned with the families who were lost on that day. I visited the graves of troops who made the ultimate sacrifice in Iraq and Afghanistan at the hallowed grounds of Arlington Cemetery, and had the opportunity to say thank you and visit some of our wounded warriors at Walter Reed. And then last night, we learned the news of this attack in Benghazi.

As Americans, let us never, ever forget that our freedom is only sustained because there are people who are willing to fight for it, to stand up for it, and in some cases, lay down their lives for it. Our country is only as strong as the character of our people and the service of those both civilian and military who represent us around the globe.

No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn four more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done.

It's close. He says the word terrorism, but it's vague as to exactly what he was talking about, as the writer points out.
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AI Wessex
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The day after it wasn't clear exactly what happened, but what could you call it except terrorism?

[ October 16, 2012, 10:50 PM: Message edited by: AI Wessex ]

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edgmatt
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Nothing, it was terrorism.

But the Pres claimed that he called the attack in Benghazi "am attack of terrorism." And when questioned by Romney he said to get the transcripts, and then the moderator said that he did in fact call it an act of terrorism.

But he did not. He did not actually say that Benghazi was an act of terrorism.

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AI Wessex
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Not sure how you can agree that it was an act of terror and that he said an act of terror in reference to what had just happened, and yet not think he was actually calling it an act of terrorism.

I think he waited the additional time for the fact finding to take place. Seems prudent not to overstep.

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JoshCrow
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quote:
Originally posted by edgmatt:

But he did not. He did not actually say that Benghazi was an act of terrorism.

Please elaborate on the difference between an "act of terror" and an "act of terrorism" for us.
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JoshuaD
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Small aside: the moderator was excellent this debate.
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AI Wessex
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Let's see who attacks her. The winner's side never attacks the moderator.

More than that I really want to hear what G# thought [Smile] [Big Grin] .

[ October 16, 2012, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: AI Wessex ]

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edgmatt
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No difference in the words at all.

He did not say "this was an act of terror". He alluded to it, a bit, but that's it. He referenced 9/11 2001 also, so it's not straightforward that he was talking about Benghazi. This is important, because he claimed that he did in fact call it an act of terror, and to check the transcript, and the moderator said that he called it an act of terror, which he did not clearly do.

And did not do so for weeks after that as well.

Like I originally said, it's close. I think the President made a mistake when he claimed that

"I told the American people in the world that we are going to find out exactly what happened. That this was an act of terror..."

Romney said: "I -- I think interesting the president just said something which -- which is that on the day after the attack he went into the Rose Garden and said that this was an act of terror..."

Then Obama said : "That's what I said."

But that's not what he said. He made a vague reference to it but he did NOT call the event in Benghazi an act of terror directly. That's his mistake.

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edgmatt
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Josh - I'm flabbergasted that you thought the moderator was excellent. The president was able to speak last on nearly every issue, she interrupted Romney (as she should) anytime he was over time, but did not do so for the President, and she bailed out the President on this remark about an act of terror.
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