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Author Topic: Duh Debates
noel c.
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Donald,

The question was perfectly coherent, as would be your answer if you chose to share it. The necessary conclusion is that intent is a sufficient condition for lying. Incidently, silence can constitute intent


Funean,

I am so happy to see you here. I actually thought about you last week wondering how you were

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Funean
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I am fine! Just busy, and rarely in the mood for wading through the kind of unpleasantness that has unfortunately become more common here. I am concentrating my efforts on young impressionable family members on Facebook now. They are easier to bend to my will and ineffable rightness. [Smile]
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by Funean:
Well it does remain one of those words that's safest not to use unless you are one.

I'm about to go live in a trailer on a hill in Georgia with chickens and goats and no telephone or internet, where I'll hunt rabbits. And I do currently make my own hootch, although I'm planning to give that up when I go to Georgia. Is it bad to say that I'm going to "live like a hillbilly?" (that's not a hypo, btw; it's actually true).

quote:
I'd hate for you to get knocked down without having aggressively sought it. [Smile]
Well I called him a "hillbilly" *after* I got knocked down ... he actually knocked me down because he thought I was gay (I was wearing a pink shirt).
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noel c.
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Ineffable? Are you kidding?

You are clearly right, and I just eff'ed it!

Seriously, I do miss your participation here. I am somewhat scarce on this board for similar reasons. A little bit goes a very long way.

You still owe me an e-mail, but I do understand that your time is better spent with more pliable minds. [Smile]

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Funean
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I bet I can find it and answer it, darn it! It's not like I ever clean out my inbox. Also, I'm really not sure whether you've said something naughty to me there.

Pete--is this going to put you closer to the Things? And will you be living in anything named "Hollow" or "Run?"

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philnotfil
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quote:
Originally posted by Funean:
rarely in the mood for wading through the kind of unpleasantness that has unfortunately become more common here.

I know, what happened to us?
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noel c.
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Funean,

I would not remember the questions even if you answered them, but I do know there was nothing (intentionally) distressing. Don't worry about it, I was just messing with you. The AOL account is no longer active anyway.

Its just good to hear from you.

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Pete at Home
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"Pete--is this going to put you closer to the Things?"

Yes! That's 2/3 of the idea, to keep Thing Two from being institutionalized. The other part is to get me out of Vegas and dry me out.


"And will you be living in anything named "Hollow" or "Run?""

No. Going to live in the middle of a wooded hilly area, over a mile from any other house or structure other than a radio tower, on a property that used to be owned by the family of a voo-doo witch doctor. (Seriously!)


--------
@Noel: I sympathize. Last Funean emailed me a year ago, she said she was going to have a cup of coffee and then email me right away. [Big Grin] I take it that she sips very slowly. [Wink]

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Pete at Home
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"rarely in the mood for wading through the kind of unpleasantness that has unfortunately become more common here."

I don't remember when it wasn't with us. From my first week on Ornery in 2001, there's been nastiness coupled with nostalgia for the days when things were better. But you can find that also in the earliest human writings.

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philnotfil
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quote:
Originally posted by Pete at Home:
"rarely in the mood for wading through the kind of unpleasantness that has unfortunately become more common here."

I don't remember when it wasn't with us. From my first week on Ornery in 2001, there's been nastiness coupled with nostalgia for the days when things were better. But you can find that also in the earliest human writings.

Yes, I have always found that in threads you have participated in [Smile]

But there is a lot more of that and a lot less of anything worth spending time on over the last year or two. You can also look back and see that we used to have several new threads on current events being added every day. It used to be that I could come here first and then know everything that was worth paying attention to when the evening news came on. Now I know that when I log in, I will get several new threads with no links and attempts at poisoning the well on that subject, and a few threads on esoteric bits of stuff that only matter to a very few people, and a whole bunch of people trying to be clever with words instead of saying something useful about the subject of whatever thread they happen to be in.

I used to get my news from Ornery, and I used to be able to get informative commentary from Ornery, now I find myself coming here less and less often, it just isn't worth the time. I don't enjoy the word games, I enjoy getting new ideas and new perspectives on things, those have been lacking lately.

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Viking_Longship
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quote:
Originally posted by noel c.:
VL,

My best beta-tester is an Oklahoma hillbilly State Trooper, and he does not mind me calling him a hillbilly. Is he just unusually secure in his personal worth?

It means he's friends with you. I do not advise you to try it on a stranger.

You know its an insult, that's why you used it. It's an imature tactic of yours and then you try and talk your way out of it. I told you Noel, I am not going to toy with you.

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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by philnotfil:
quote:
Originally posted by Pete at Home:
"rarely in the mood for wading through the kind of unpleasantness that has unfortunately become more common here."

I don't remember when it wasn't with us. From my first week on Ornery in 2001, there's been nastiness coupled with nostalgia for the days when things were better. But you can find that also in the earliest human writings.

Yes, I have always found that in threads you have participated in [Smile]
Yes, and passive-aggressive backhands with an innocent smily are also a longstanding Ornery tradition. [Smile]
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Viking_Longship
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quote:
Originally posted by G3:
quote:
Originally posted by Viking_Longship:
I can't tell Hillary is particularly overweight for her age. Clinton isn't now at all (he was overweight as president.

The last few times I saw Bill, he looked a little unhealthy to me. Maybe it's age creeping up on him but he's only 66. That's not that old; his ticker ain't the best though and that can give you a unhealthy glow sometimes. I hear he's on some kind of vegan diet, that'll thin you up alright- even make you look rather wasted. Perhaps that's it.

Hillary, now, she's got something interesting going on with her appearance. She's not really a unattractive woman, especially for one in her 60's, but over the last couple of years she seems to be going out of her way to appear so - with a few notable exceptions here and there. She's a player, very calculating, nothing is an accident with her. Maybe it's just some kind of play to the ME guys will take her seriously?

I agree Bill Clinton doesn't look good. I suppose you could blame it on the heart surgery but that was a while ago.

As to Hillary, I agree with you that she seems to be trying to look dowdy. Maybe you're right that she's doing it for effect.

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noel c.
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VL,

You are sounding a little shrill. Am I really supposed to be worried if you decide "not to toy" with me?

Its getting late. Go tuck your kids in.

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Pete at Home
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"I used to get my news from Ornery, and I used to be able to get informative commentary from Ornery, now I find myself coming here less and less often"

I agree that there's less information.

Redskull was one of our great providers and has been beaten away by a host of insults ... sadly by someone else whose presence I greatly enjoy when he's not chomping at someone else. I also miss Richard Dey. Redskull and Dey certainly didn't like each other, and they were often as pyrogenic as me, but they and others like them brought a strikingly interesting perspective to Ornery. And Red is a wonderful source of facts.

There's nothing new about the nastiness, or the whining about the nastiness, or the endless search for a scapegoat to blame the nastiness on. That's been around in spades since 2001. The problem is a lack of substance.

But substance has always been in short supply during election season.

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Viking_Longship
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quote:
Originally posted by noel c.:
VL,

You are sounding a little shrill. Am I really supposed to be worried if you decide "not to toy" with me?

Its getting late. Go tuck your kids in.

It means I am reporting you to the mod.
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noel c.
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For heavens sake, you have been threatening that all day. Get it out of your system if you must
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by Viking_Longship:
Fat and sweaty is an attack on their appearance and "hillbilly" was an attack on Clinton's socioeconomic background.

Wasn't this the prez whose PR hit man spoke of Paula Jones' accusations as what happens when you drag $20 through a trailer park?

With that said, calling a flatlands Southerner a "hillbilly" seems more of an insult to Appalachians than to Bill Clinton.

Since our only self-declared Appalachian has said that the term offends her, I propose we strike it from our vocabularies on Ornery.

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Viking_Longship
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quote:
I'm about to go live in a trailer on a hill in Georgia with chickens and goats and no telephone or internet, where I'll hunt rabbits. And I do currently make my own hootch, although I'm planning to give that up when I go to Georgia. Is it bad to say that I'm going to "live like a hillbilly?" (that's not a hypo, btw; it's actually true).
Now, no. If you stick it out in the future you can, but, with your Nevada accent, only amongst people that know you.

Of course a lot depends on context. Some mountain people use it amongst themselves in a self depricating way, like black people use the N word and gay people use "queer". That's not an invitation to use it yourself.

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Viking_Longship
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quote:
Originally posted by Pete at Home:
quote:
Originally posted by Viking_Longship:
Fat and sweaty is an attack on their appearance and "hillbilly" was an attack on Clinton's socioeconomic background.

Wasn't this the prez whose PR hit man spoke of Paula Jones' accusations as what happens when you drag $20 through a trailer park?

With that said, calling a flatlands Southerner a "hillbilly" seems more of an insult to Appalachians than to Bill Clinton.

Since our only self-declared Appalachian has said that the term offends her, I propose we strike it from our vocabularies on Ornery.

I am also Appalachian and the term (obviously)offends me as well.

Clinton's treatment of Paula Jones was shameful. That doesn't justify using regional slurs on him anymore than Jesse Jackson's record with women justifies using racial slurs on him.

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noel c.
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VL,

My daughter was curious about what I had just read, and made some interesting comments based upon that. The Beverly Hillbillies are one of her favorite classic TV series. Her impressions of the characters are as follows:

- Uncle Jed- wise in an innocent sort of way.
- Jethro- stupid.
- Ellie Mae- caring.
- Granny- sees five-foot tall jack rabbits.

With a 50% negative rating, I have determined that you are entirety justified in taking "regional" offense. My ten year old will be advised that she is not to laugh... this is serious business.

Thankyou for raising our consciousness

[ October 20, 2012, 01:11 AM: Message edited by: noel c. ]

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seekingprometheus
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Duh Debates

[LOL]

[ October 20, 2012, 01:16 AM: Message edited by: seekingprometheus ]

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Viking_Longship
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quote:
Originally posted by noel c.:
VL,

My daughter was curious about what I had just read, and made some interesting comments based upon that. The Beverly Hillbillies are one of her favorite classic TV series. Her impressions of the characters are as follows:

- Uncle Jed- wise in an innocent sort of way.
- Jethro- stupid.
- Ellie Mae- caring.
- Granny- sees five-foot tall jack rabbits.

With a 50% negative rating, I have determined that you are entirety justified in taking "regional" offense. My ten year old will be advised that she is not to laugh... this is serious business.

Thankyou for raising our consciousness

The Beverly Hillbillies was as much a parody of Southern California as it was the Ozarks. It's got as much to do with real mountain people as Bewitched has to do with the occult.

A couple hundred years of theft and murder generally being disregarded by most of America because it was being done to subhumans has nothing to do with Jed Clappet.

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Viking_Longship
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Deliverence on the other hand we could have done without.
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noel c.
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"... as much a parody of Southern California." ... And I grew up in Huntington Beach. All this time, and only now I realize that I have been parodied!

Do you think that it is too late for me to work up some therapeutic indignation?

[ October 20, 2012, 02:12 AM: Message edited by: noel c. ]

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AI Wessex
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"That is absolutely correct Matt, although I am fairly blunt in person also."

If you say things like you've said here you're either in the company of like-minded doofuses, or you are so lacking in social skills that you aren't aware that those around you are in shocked disbelief. I imagine that both are true in your world since you seem to think that what you said is appropriate social behavior.

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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by Pete at Home:
Hmm. My best friend in Vegas is a wiccan hillbilly lesbian lawyer, and the only one of those names that irks her is "lawyer." But maybe the term is more loaded in other parts of Appalachia than it is in Ashville, North Carolina.

The fact that some individuals choose to own an particular epithet that could be applied to them negatively doesn't change the general negative sense of the word, particularly when used by an outsider to whatever culture it described.

If a person invites you to use it in reference to them, that's one thing, but as way pointed out, you'll still be in a lot of trouble if you go to appalachia and just start tossing it around. (Especially if you manage to really prove yourself to be out of place by missing the right zone by a bit and try to apply it to people that identify as rednecks instead, or vice versa.)

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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by Pete at Home:
I'm about to go live in a trailer on a hill in Georgia with chickens and goats and no telephone or internet, where I'll hunt rabbits. And I do currently make my own hootch, although I'm planning to give that up when I go to Georgia. Is it bad to say that I'm going to "live like a hillbilly?" (that's not a hypo, btw; it's actually true).

Unless you're in the most northwestern GA, "redneck" (southern small farmer) mich be a little closer- most of GA is out of the mountains and in the South proper. It would probably be best to wait till you integrate with the local culture first and see what they consider themselves to be.
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Viking_Longship
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by noel c.:
"... as much a parody of Southern California." ... And I grew up in Huntington Beach. All this time, and only now I realize that I have been parodied!

Do you think that it is too late for me to work up some therapeutic indignation?
[/QUOTE


I'm not playing this game with you.

Even if I could make you understand my point you want to win any argument you're in so badly you'll never acknowledge you did anything wrong.

It's not worth the frustration.

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Viking_Longship
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Noel on a previous subject, do you hold Chris Christie's weight against him?
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noel c.
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Al,

Generally, when I find it useful to be candid, I am in the company of un-like-minded doofuses in positions of authority... and yes, they are shocked into disbelief judging by facial expression. Social skills are more effectively employed where there is a prevailing assumption of good-will. I will concede that even there, some bleed-over takes place... life is like that.

Thanks for your concern.

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noel c.
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VL,

... Is it worth the frustration to you?

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Viking_Longship
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Noel

I doubt we have much to argue about in regards of Chris Christie. (I've lived in NJ for over a year, I like him, but I have no emotional investment in him.)

Just curious if his weight colors your view of him as well.

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AI Wessex
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[VL:] "Noel on a previous subject, do you hold Chris Christie's weight against him?"

On a previous point in this thread he pointed out that Jerry Falwell said we're electing a CiC, not a pulpit preacher, as a reason why we shouldn't hold Romney's religion against him. OTOH, we had a whole thread where he attacked Obama repeatedly for what he imagined were there beliefs held by Rev. Jeremiah Wright. It's dissonance, but not cognitive, more like naked bias and bigotry.

[Noel:] "Generally, when I find it useful to be candid, I am in the company of un-like-minded doofuses in positions of authority... and yes, they are shocked into disbelief judging by facial expression."

Ah, just as I thought. And these people are in positions of authority and you're not. Would I be right to assume that the reason they are doofuses is that they don't know how to do their jobs as well as you do?

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noel c.
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Yes VL, it does. I like him also, but he is undisciplined, and barely acknowledges it to himself. I had a mentor in my late teens/early twenties that brought this into relief for me with the statement "If you are trying to do something, it is because you are failing to do that something."

Christie will tell you that he is "trying" to do things that would cause weight loss, and then turn around and say; "You don't have to drink, you don’t have to take drugs, but you have to eat.".

See the problem?

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noel c.
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Actually Al, I am in the position of authority.

By the way, I consider Falwell to be a good Christian.

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AI Wessex
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Oh, right, you can tell the difference between a good Christian and a bad one. But the quote from Falwell was about Romney being a good Christian. Are you saying that because Falwell is a good Christian and he says that Romney's religion shouldn't matter, therefore it shouldn't matter? Would it have affected your belief in how good a Christian Wright is if Romney had said that Obama was elected to be a CiC, not to preach from a pulpit?
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noel c.
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This is simpler than you are making it Al.

I doubt that Falwell considered Mormons Christian. That is not objectional to me as long as his values are substantially Mormon, and yes, I also consider him a good Christian because he meets the criteria by which I measure in theological terms.

Wright does not measure up on either count, and neither does his protege.

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Viking_Longship
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quote:
Originally posted by noel c.:
Yes VL, it does. I like him also, but he is undisciplined, and barely acknowledges it to himself. I had a mentor in my late teens/early twenties that brought this into relief for me with the statement "If you are trying to do something, it is because you are failing to do that something."

Christie will tell you that he is "trying" to do things that would cause weight loss, and then turn around and say; "You don't have to drink, you don’t have to take drugs, but you have to eat.".

See the problem?

You think he's on drugs?

In the first few months I was under his governorship he had to deal with an earthquake, a hurricaine, a freak snowstorm and a flood. (I was starting to expect locusts.)

I thought he did an excellent job again and again.

Not bad for someone so undisciplined.

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Viking_Longship
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quote:
Originally posted by noel c.:
This is simpler than you are making it Al.

I doubt that Falwell considered Mormons Christian. That is not objectional to me as long as his values are substantially Mormon, and yes, I also consider him a good Christian because he meets the criteria by which I measure in theological terms.

Wright does not measure up on either count, and neither does his protege.

Ok so what's your standard?
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