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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Feiglin on Iran, Arab Spring, US aid, and more (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Feiglin on Iran, Arab Spring, US aid, and more
starLisa
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http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/asia/item/15435-deputy-knesset-speaker-feiglin-on-iran-arab-spring-u-s-aid-and-more

This is what a real Jewish leader looks like. Other than what he says about gold at the very end, he's spot on. These are the questions they asked him:

quote:
The New American: How serious is the threat from Iran? What should be done about it? Does America have any role, or is this just Israel’s problem?

TNA: What are your thoughts, generally speaking, on the Arab Spring? What does it mean for Israel, and for the world? Considering that the Muslim Brotherhood came to power in Egypt and that there is a very real risk that anti-Israel and anti-West Islamic extremists might take over Syria, what are your thoughts on Egypt and Syria specifically?

TNA: What are your thoughts on Obama’s Middle East policy and his attitude toward Israel versus, for example, the administration’s policy on the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, which is receiving F-16s and tanks, or the Islamist rebels in various countries receiving U.S. aid?

TNA: What should the relationship be between the U.S. government and the Israeli government?

TNA: A former GOP presidential candidate, Ron Paul, argued that the U.S. government is actually using this foreign aid to obtain leverage over the Israeli government when Israel should be thinking about its own interests rather than what Washington thinks. What do you think?

TNA: The United Nations has a tendency to create resolutions condemning Israel. What do you think about that?

TNA: Beyond just the government, what is Israel’s role in the world as a people, as a nation, as a culture?

TNA: Maybe you don’t feel comfortable talking about America, but what are your thoughts on where American foreign policy has gone? Is it appropriate? Is there a better way to do things?

TNA: Speaking about domestic issues, the word that comes to my mind is libertarian, even though I haven’t heard you described as that and I haven’t heard you describe yourself using that term. What are your thoughts on libertarianism and the idea that government should pretty much leave people alone?

TNA: Translating that into policy, what does it mean?

TNA: So what does that mean, for example, for the economy? Should the government shrink? Should people pay less tax?

TNA: Before arriving for our interview, your assistant told me you were coming from a meeting with the health ministry seeking the legalization of medical marijuana. Why do you think that is a good idea and how would it benefit Israel?

TNA: What do you see as the benefits for Israel and its armed forces of abolishing mandatory service? Would Israel still be adequately protected, or would security be even better? How tenable is this politically?

TNA: In the April 27 Manhigut Newsletter, you wrote: “Another money drain is the creeping inflation: the cumulative effect of printing money. There is no difference between a state that prints money out of thin air and a private counterfeiter who prints some bills and buys a car or house. In both cases, the counterfeiters gain and everyone else has to work longer and harder to fund them.” What type of monetary system would serve Israel better than the current one?

Other than the his last answer, where he talks about a gold based economy, which would be a disaster, his views are spot on.
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djquag1
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If the spot in question is delusional ***hole, then yes, he's spot on.
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djquag1
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This guy is like some twisted mix of Dick Cheney and a young Pat Robertson. What a toolbag.
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djquag1
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About the only thing I agree with him on is that the US should cut off Israel's military money, and be left on it's own to decide it's fate.

He makes a good joke, though, talking about human rights as if he's standing miles above the Chinese and not just a couple metres.

Eta - Some other interesting tidbits here.

Arabs don't fit into nation states, you see. Not only is Palestine not a nation, but neither are Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, and all the rest. The only real nation is Israel, and Israel should take over the entire Middle East for the betterment of all.

America needs Israel more then Israel needs America. [LOL]

"I think this potential — the old people of the Book that came back to the Promised Land have that potential in them — and I think the whole world, deep in their mind, in their soul, are waiting for that message to come out of Zion. I think this is the reason for the existence of the Jewish state." A religious nutcase, too.

What an utter raving lunatic. If he loved his country he'd put a gun in his mouth and pull the trigger.

[ May 20, 2013, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: djquag1 ]

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starLisa
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Hey, **** for brains. I'd suggest that you do the same, but since that wouldn't actually hurt you, it's probably better than you stick a gun up your ass and pull the trigger.

*******.

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Aris Katsaris
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It seems that the modern progressive is turning as stupid and as incapable of argument as your archetypical conservative, reduced to pointing and laughing and never actually articulating an argument.
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AI Wessex
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"It seems that the modern progressive is turning as stupid and as incapable of argument..."

Just a tad too broad a brush, don't you think?

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Aris Katsaris
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Well yeah, but it sounded a bit more subtle than "modern progressives calling themselves djquag1".
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AI Wessex
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I would rather you had, as I had to flick a bit of spatter off my sleeve when I read it...
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Bud Martin
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I like everything he says about Israel and the US and the Arab Spring and wished more American politicians had the courage to stand up against Tyranny and evil. This man had the right idea about A-jad, they should have assassinated him when he threatened nuclear war on Israel, and we should do the same thing to that N. Korean tin pot J-Un.

Palestinians are starting to fly Nazi flags on their Mosques, so they know the evil they are embracing and don't care. They would kill their own people for talking moderation, so there is no way to meet them in honest negotiations. As long as the moderate Muslims are beaten down by the extremists and they sit mute as the extremists kill and murder others, they are complicit in their crimes against humanity and deserve no fair treatment!

I feel sorry for Muslim children who are raised as tools and weapons and are brainwashed into hating others; all of Islam has gone mad with vengeance because their nation states are such failures. Only oil revenues prop up the Gulf States, they have no economy to speak of. Egypt is destroying its own economy as the extremists terrorize the tourist industry. Before long the Muslim brotherhood will probably destroy the pyramids and all ancient reminders of Egypt's great historical past.

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starLisa
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http://www.timesofisrael.com/likud-mk-feiglin-its-immoral-for-israel-to-take-us-aid/
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djquag1
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Sorry Aris, if people can't see how what I outlined from the article is ridiculous, I'm not interested in arguing against them. To believe stuff like that shows you're already down the rabbit hole.

But hey, agree with them if you want. Or, if you like me think that arguing against it is too much work for too little reward, make a snide comment about how my argumentation doesn't meet the approval of the world's wisest Greek.

Lisa, if you want to descend into personal attacks, we can. I don't mind eating a ban for a couple months until I move.
Go fry up a porkchop and get some rest, you'll need it, I'm sure you have a busy day tomorrow advocating for the removal of brown people from their homes so your buddies can move in.

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Aris Katsaris
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quote:
Originally posted by djquag1:
Sorry Aris, if people can't see how what I outlined from the article is ridiculous, I'm not interested in arguing against them.

Not only people can't see that what you outlined is ridiculous, *you* can't see why it's ridiculous either, you simply want to claim it./

Do you have any detailed knowledge of ethnology to argue whether e.g. a Jordanian nationality actually exists or not, or if its as arbitrary a separation of a wider nationality as "North Korea" or "Moldova"?

You aren't making an argument because you can't make an argument, one way or another. You can just ****ing MOCK people of opinions different than yours.

And I hate mockers. You personify an unthinking mob of one. Mock mock mock away, and the more idiot leftists mock, the more I want to support the most hardcore rightwinger Israelis around. Because if YOU define the arguments of the other side, then they have already won the argument.

Idiot.

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OrneryMod
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djquag and starlisa: Please control yourselves. If you aren't able to post civilly, please refrain from posting entirely. The way you have both posted in this thread is not appropriate for these forums.
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djquag1
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Actually, Aris, I do see it. I'm just not inclined to make a point by point argument. If someone wants to believe that tripe, then let them. I could convince every single person who reads this board that I was right and Lisa was wrong, and it wouldn't make a damned bit of difference. Unless political and business leaders read Ornery, now? It's not my job to educate people.

Jordanians might have a closer bond to other Arabs then, say, the English do to French or Germans. And even that's debateable. But enough time has passed that they do think of themselves as Jordanians. That whole line of argument is made to set up Feiglin's vision of Lebensraum for Israel. He says it flat out; Israel should rule over the entire middle east. You want to talk about nipping ***holes with expansionist dreams in the bud, how about this guy?

I'll mock stupid ideas all day, every day. I'm so very, very sorry if that pushes your buttons, Aris. Promise. But that whole thing with leftists who don't follow the Debate Rules According to Aris making you want to support right wingers. That's very logical. Did you learn that in the Church of Rationality?

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starLisa
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quote:
djquag1 lied:
That whole line of argument is made to set up Feiglin's vision of Lebensraum for Israel. He says it flat out; Israel should rule over the entire middle east.

"The third country that can take over the Middle East and take responsibility, and make the Middle East flourish, is, of course, Israel itself. But the Israelis don’t have those kinds of ideas anywhere in the horizon of their mind, right, so we’re stuck with these two options."

Italics added.

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Aris Katsaris
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quote:
You want to talk about nipping ***holes with expansionist dreams in the bud, how about this guy?
I'm too busy dealing with ******* Americans who thinks that *their* vision of the world is the only non-ridiculous one. It's a vision where *they* would never think of telling 79% of their countrymen to shoot themselves (79% of Americans thought the Iraq War was justified), and have the audacious hypocricy of bashing people for discussing Israeli policy because they don't live in Israel.

You don't live in Israel either, how the hell do you get *any* right to discuss Israeli policy? I'm judging you BY YOUR OWN STANDARDS, you vile hypocrite.

quote:
But that whole thing with leftists who don't follow the Debate Rules According to Aris making you want to support right wingers. That's very logical. Did you learn that in the Church of Rationality?
Yes, the "Church of Rationality" (whatever that is) tells me that I must disencintivize mob tactics that lower the level of discussion. So the more someone uses bullying tactics based on point-and-laugh the more I will support their opponents.

So when you just point-and-laugh (instead of argue against) at the idea that Israel should control the middle east, I'll e.g. mention that given the quality of life of Arabs in Israel vs the quality of life of Arabs in the rest of the Middle-east, there's actually a very good argument in support of Israel has perhaps not just a moral right but a moral obligation to be a colonial-style ruler of the entirety of Middle-east -- for the Arabs' own good.

This is not my actual position, but it's the sort of argument that I feel obliged to make, given your a$$holery. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[ May 22, 2013, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: Aris Katsaris ]

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djquag1
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I'm not responsible for your poor choices, Aris. So use whatever mathematical formula you want to use to decide what to do, it's nothing to do with me. Oh, and the Church of Rationality is that little organization that HPMoR's author runs.

Does Moishe Feiglin make up seventy nine percent of Israel, now? You'll notice I didn't suggest that people who support him should shoot themselves; just him. He's the head of the snake, the young rising political star. My reasoning here is pretty simple. I think his ideas would hurt that country, he's one of the biggest drivers of them, therefore if he was gone the country will be better off.

Of course, he won't. But perhaps some young Israeli patriot could assassinate him someday. Snipe him, maybe.
People could cry with happiness and thank God, and still celebrate it twenty years later.

As to why I feel I have a right to comment. First off, dumbass, this is a public message board. I get to comment on whatever I want. If Lisa wants to have a private conversation with Israelis she can do that on her blog or something.

Second, the country I live and pay taxes in gives billions to Israel, year in, year out. About ninety percent of the federal government is ready and willing to suck Israel off whenever it texts them "hey baby u awake?" So I'm going to go ahead and run my mouth, and not feel the slightest bit guilty over it.

Third, technically, I'm English. But I live in the States. You'll notice how I don't suggest that Great Britain do things that would make it a pariah state to the entire world, or that would get untold numbers of my countrymen killed while I sit in the comfort of the US.

I have family that live there, after all.

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Aris Katsaris
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quote:
"Oh, and the Church of Rationality is that little organization that HPMoR's author runs."
Good to know.

quote:
But perhaps some young Israeli patriot could assassinate him someday. Snipe him, maybe.
People could cry with happiness and thank God, and still celebrate it twenty years later.

I see you are not only supportive of suicides, you're also supportive of assassinations. Another thing that's good to know about you. That's further evidence that I judged your character properly.

Hint, hint -- if I had to judge whether assassinations or colonialism is worse consequentialistically, colonialism is far far morally superior to assassinations.

quote:
First off, dumbass, this is a public message board. I get to comment on whatever I want.
That didn't seem the position you had about starLisa's commentary on Israel. Strange how the criteria changes when it's *you* commenting vs someone else commenting.

quote:
Second, the country I live and pay taxes in gives billions to Israel, year in, year out.
Wow, just like the country that starLisa lives in. Imagine that!

quote:
You'll notice how I don't suggest that Great Britain do things that would make it a pariah state to the entire world, while I sit in the comfort of the US.
Yes, you only support things that *you* think correct policy. While starLisa and Moshe Feiglin only support things that *they* think correct policy. How different you people are, you all support the things that you think correct.

If there's a difference it's that you live in the comfort of the US and have no actual stakes in the issue, while Moshe Feiglin lives in Israel and starLisa has children living in Israel, you BLOODY PRIVILEGED HYPOCRITE.

[ May 22, 2013, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: Aris Katsaris ]

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djquag1
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Yawn. You let random people on the internet get you too worked up, you know that?

I don't actually think assassination is a good thing. But another Prime Minister was assassinated a couple decades back, and certain people thought that was a splendid thing. I was mocking that idea.

I'd ask you to show me where I told Lisa she shouldn't be posting. But then we'd be waiting a very long time, wouldn't we? I did, very bluntly, list off Lisa's vile, racist positions, asked her if she had anything else to add, and told her I wasn't interested in having a discussion with her. The only thing we agree on is that the other one is an idiot not worth talking to. But don't let reading the entire thread and reading comprehension get in the way of you trying to score a debate point.

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Aris Katsaris
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quote:
But another Prime Minister was assassinated a couple decades back, and certain people thought that was a splendid thing. I was mocking that idea.
Yes, I think that case is one of the things that I strongly disagree with Lisa about. But once again you can just mock, not make an argument.

quote:
I'd ask you to show me where I told Lisa she shouldn't be posting.
Whenever you bloody repeat the line (which you've done several times already in more than one thread) about how Lisa should be scoffed at for speaking her mind while living in "the comfort of the US" you are effectively telling her that she shouldn't be commenting.

Of course you are being deceitful - you only pretend you care about her location -- as evidenced by the fact that you hold even more vile attitudes towards the Israelis that hold same beliefs and *actually* live in Israel.

So the necessary and sufficient condition for someone to be scoffed at by you is to have a different opinion on Israeli policy -- everything else (e.g. whether they live in the US or not) is just a frigging deception and distraction, you're so blatantly uninterested in this that you don't even notice the hypocrisy when it's pointed at to you.

Once again -- I USED YOUR STANDARDS. It's you who made it so very bloody relevant about what people's location are. If Israel is destroyed, you don't have the slightest reason to care. If the Middle-east remains a hellhole, or becomes even worse one, you don't have the slightest reason to care.

And yet you Englishman-who-lives-in-America has the chutzpah to speak about the "comfort of living in the US" to Jewish people with children in Israel.

Your own standards, your own noose.

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djquag1
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Oh yes, nothing in the Middle East ever affects the United States. Not ever.

I'll say this - if Israel really was gone, the US would be better off for it. Big headache, gone. Nuking them out of existence would be wrong, of course, so I'd be just as happy if Russia or China became their new BFF.

No, I'm not effectively telling anyone not to talk. Free speech doesn't require that everyone respect everyone's elses positions, or why they hold them, or the results of actions that might result from those positions. If someone can't stand up and make a case or state an opinion, because the big bad buwwies hurt der widdle feelings, too bad. Words are just words. Lisa, however, has never said anything like that. She can take care of herself.

People suffer in that part of the world, and you're wrong in stating that I don't care about that.

People in Israel who want Lebensraum will at least pay if they get what they ask for. So I have a bit more respect for them, if not for their thinking. People advocating policies that endanger their children is still plenty worthy of an eye roll. And no, Aris, despite me not giving into your demands that I treat this place like a courtroom or debate club, I do actually know something about the situation, if not everything.

The bar for scoffing at an opinion is for that opinion to be stupid, unwise, or immoral. That doesn't always coincide with that opinion being different then mine, believe it or not.

Again, I never said all Israelis who believe in Feighlin's call for a solution to the Palestinian problem, and his other ideas, should shoot themselves, just Feighlin. It'd be like if Cheney and Bush had died before 9/11.

Take heart, though. I'm not actually Emperor of the World. My opinions are worth no more then anyone elses.

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djquag1
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And here's the thing, Aris. If someone actually believes something as idiotic as the idea that assassinating the Prime Minister was a good thing, I just can't be arsed to argue with them. Let them have their delusion.
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starLisa
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quote:
Originally posted by djquag1:
But perhaps some young Israeli patriot could assassinate him someday. Snipe him, maybe.
People could cry with happiness and thank God, and still celebrate it twenty years later.

Whistled, of course. It's amazing. I could say the tiniest fraction of what this djquag-off is spewing and I'd be banned.
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starLisa
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quote:
Originally posted by djquag1:
Second, the country I live and pay taxes in gives billions to Israel, year in, year out. About ninety percent of the federal government is ready and willing to suck Israel off whenever it texts them "hey baby u awake?" So I'm going to go ahead and run my mouth, and not feel the slightest bit guilty over it.

It's amazing that someone who calls others "dumbass" is too illiterate to notice Feiglin's article in which he states that it's immoral to take aid from the US. An article linked to in this very thread.

But djwhatever has shown that facts aren't important to him.

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starLisa
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quote:
Originally posted by djquag1:
Third, technically, I'm English.

Figures. What does the Statue of Liberty say? "Give us your Euro-trash", or something like that?
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starLisa
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quote:
Originally posted by Aris Katsaris:
quote:
But another Prime Minister was assassinated a couple decades back, and certain people thought that was a splendid thing. I was mocking that idea.
Yes, I think that case is one of the things that I strongly disagree with Lisa about.
While the a**hole from the UK will undoubtedly argue that it's quibbling, I do *not* think that assassination is a good thing. I didn't rejoice over the fact that Rabin was assassinated. I did rejoice over the fact that he was dead and could no longer hurt anyone. I would have rejoiced in exactly the same way if he'd had a heart attack and keeled over. I'm all smiles about Sharon being a rutabaga. These are people who made war against their own people.
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djquag1
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quote:
Originally posted by starLisa:
quote:
Originally posted by djquag1:
But perhaps some young Israeli patriot could assassinate him someday. Snipe him, maybe.
People could cry with happiness and thank God, and still celebrate it twenty years later.

Whistled, of course. It's amazing. I could say the tiniest fraction of what this djquag-off is spewing and I'd be banned.
This plus the last post equals humor.

eta - I'm confused, where in the TOS does it say that we can't state assassination of a political figure is a good thing? Sarcastically or otherwise? Just curious.

[ May 22, 2013, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: djquag1 ]

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djquag1
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Yes, Lisa, I'm the product of poor immigrants. As are most all Americans, if you go back far enough.

Was that meant to be an insult?

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starLisa
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quote:
Originally posted by djquag1:
Yes, Lisa, I'm the product of poor immigrants. As are most all Americans, if you go back far enough.

Was that meant to be an insult?

Not all European immigrants are Eurotrash.
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djquag1
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Disagreeing with Lisa equals Eurotrash. Gotcha.
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Bud Martin
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Please stop bashing America! What has the Statue of Liberty to do with this issue? I will support Israel and like Feighlin despite the atrocious behavior of some of the supposed Israelis posting here. I'm tired of people bashing my country and find it offensive. Please stop it!

If you want to do some good, get the Jewish voters that support Obama educated about his policies that are detrimental to Israel and straighten them out; they are supporting a man that is definitely looking to harm Israel. Almost 70% of the Jewish voters in the US voted for Obama.

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djquag1
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How interesting it is that Jewish voters disagree with you on how bad Obama is to Jewish people.
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djquag1
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She wasn't bashing America, she was calling me Eurotrash and playing on old stereotypes about people who immigrate to the States. The give me your Eurotrash quip is an old one.

[ May 22, 2013, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: djquag1 ]

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Bud Martin
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It's more likely that those Jewish voters don't care enough about Israel.

[ May 22, 2013, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: Bud Martin ]

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Bud Martin
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quote:
LONDON - Two men armed with a machete, guns and other weapons attacked and killed a bystander - possibly a soldier - on a street in South London on Wednesday in what officials are treating as a terrorist-related assault.

The shocking attack, captured on video by onlookers, ended with one of the assailants, brandishing a cleaver and a knife in his blood-soaked hands, looking into one camera to deliver a statement filled with jihadist rhetoric.

"We swear by almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you. The only reason we have done this is because Muslims are dying every day. This British soldier is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth," he says.

This is how Muslims express themselves in the UK! They beheaded him!

http://www.freep.com/usatoday/article/2351171

[ May 22, 2013, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: Bud Martin ]

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Pete at Home
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I think calling a fellow member "trash" because of their ethnicity is about as low as things have ever gotten on Ornery.

I continue to be interested in what Lisa has to say about religion and affairs in the middle-east. I have no interest in what she or anyone else here has to say about their fellow-posters. That sort of talk is a rotten bore and does not belong here.

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djquag1
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quote:
Originally posted by Bud Martin:
It's more likely that those Jewish voters don't care enough about Israel.

Well since they're Americans living in the United States, good on them.

[ May 22, 2013, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: djquag1 ]

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djquag1
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quote:
Originally posted by starLisa:
quote:
Originally posted by djquag1:
Second, the country I live and pay taxes in gives billions to Israel, year in, year out. About ninety percent of the federal government is ready and willing to suck Israel off whenever it texts them "hey baby u awake?" So I'm going to go ahead and run my mouth, and not feel the slightest bit guilty over it.

It's amazing that someone who calls others "dumbass" is too illiterate to notice Feiglin's article in which he states that it's immoral to take aid from the US. An article linked to in this very thread.

But djwhatever has shown that facts aren't important to him.

Two or three posts in I acknowledged that he had said this, and said that it was the only thing I agree with. Wouldn't stop the federal government from bending over backwards for Israel, but at the very least this booming economy should be able to pay us for the war machines they purchase.
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starLisa
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quote:
Originally posted by Pete at Home:
I think calling a fellow member "trash" because of their ethnicity is about as low as things have ever gotten on Ornery.

Unsurprisingly, I disagree. Since trashman is a bigot himself, I figure he shouldn't complain.
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