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Author Topic: ObamaCare suspended
Chael
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You know what upsets me? If they'd done this three months earlier, my hours might not have been cut in half.
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DarkJello
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quote:
Originally posted by Chael:
You know what upsets me? If they'd done this three months earlier, my hours might not have been cut in half.

Prepare to be lectured about how "the majority" love Obamacare.

It is super good, nifty, and affordable... Also, the best and brightest are just here to serve Americans with little or no personal benefit to themselves. Also, they will soon heal the oceans. They are not trampling all over the 4th Amendment either. No coup d'etat in Egypt per Carney, the voice of the prophet. The lies are legion and growing!

Fact: Obamacare is being changed by decree, and the big government types are STILL cheering.

We need the Ghostbusters now more than ever. [Wink]

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TomDavidson
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quote:
The lies are legion and growing!
I think it's interesting that we're lying about lies now.
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AI Wessex
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quote:
Originally posted by G3:
quote:
Originally posted by Greg Davidson:
G3

Please provide evidence of the following statement that you made

quote:
There is no lack of access to medical care. Anyone that wants it can get it and they'll get some of the best, most cutting edge care in the history of humanity.
When you've done that, then I'll pay attention to your definition of what facts are.
No, you won't. You are a 100% ideologically driven beast. You'll never pay attention to, much less accept, anything hat contradicts ideology. We know this because I've addressed his many times already and you still keep asking he same tired question over and over and over. You are the quintessential ideologue.
What do trolls see when they look in a mirror?
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DarkJello
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
The lies are legion and growing!
I think it's interesting that we're lying about lies now.
Indeed. Why are the powers that be on a lying rampage? And why do so many believe unicorns and rainbows are right around the corner? The implosion will occur sooner than later. Too much corruption for any other outcome now.
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Wayward Son
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And why do you believe that others believe that unicorns and rainbows are right around the corner? I don't. I don't know anyone who does.

I also don't believe that death and destruction are right around the corner when Obamacare is fully implemented. Are those the only choices? [Wink]

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jamwired
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quote:
Originally posted by djquag1:

How many preventable deaths do you think occurred in the US due to lack of healthcare in those same four years? How much higher or lower do you think that number is then 1,165?

Three times as many people die in the US from medical error than lack of health insurance a year. I want to know how many of those deaths could be attributed to doctors providing subsidized care.

I also want a pony.

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djquag1
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You might be on the path to having a point if you can show that doctors are more likely to make mistakes based upon whether the government or an insurance company is paying them.
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DarkJello
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quote:
Originally posted by jamwired:
quote:
Originally posted by djquag1:

How many preventable deaths do you think occurred in the US due to lack of healthcare in those same four years? How much higher or lower do you think that number is then 1,165?

Three times as many people die in the US from medical error than lack of health insurance a year. I want to know how many of those deaths could be attributed to doctors providing subsidized care.

I also want a pony.

#1) Don't gum up the works with facts.

#2) Maybe a pony will be the next "right" the Left can provide for all Americans.

quote:
Originally posted by Wayward Son:
And why do you believe that others believe that unicorns and rainbows are right around the corner? I don't. I don't know anyone who does.

I also don't believe that death and destruction are right around the corner when Obamacare is fully implemented. Are those the only choices? [Wink]

#1) It is the search for Utopia via government that boggles my brains.

#2) Obamacare is just the largest sign of our big government times. We have a deck of cards foundation.

[ July 10, 2013, 01:44 AM: Message edited by: DarkJello ]

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jamwired
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quote:
Originally posted by djquag1:
You might be on the path to having a point if you can show that doctors are more likely to make mistakes based upon whether the government or an insurance company is paying them.

Might take some time. I’m not sure whether or not a governmental watchdog group has looked into it.
Preventable medical errors are the sixth biggest killer in the US.

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G3
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quote:
Originally posted by Chael:
You know what upsets me? If they'd done this three months earlier, my hours might not have been cut in half.

It would have been a temporary reprieve. The law provides significant incentives to do these things. Perhaps the Obama regime will rewrite the laws again soon to help you out but I wouldn't count on it unless you're a major donor or a union.
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DarkJello
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This trailer is clever and just a little tad too accurate for my liking:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3fOujbPR7s

Sure this is the wrong thread, but Big "caring" Brother will still find it and probs put me on the list.

[ July 11, 2013, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: DarkJello ]

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G3
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Strange, Nancy Pelosi came out yesterday and said the employer mandate was NOT delayed! So what is it, delayed or not? Is it delayed everywhere but her Congressional district? Since the law can be changed at whim now, literally, how do we know where and/or when the law applies?

[ July 12, 2013, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: G3 ]

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DarkJello
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quote:
Originally posted by G3:
Strange, Nancy Pelosi came out yesterday and said the employer mandate was NOT delayed! So what is it, delayed or not? Is it delayed everywhere but her Congressional district? Since the law can be changed at whim now, literally, how do we know where and/or when the law applies?

Nancy Pelosi has discredited herself so many times. She is a disgrace. Don't trust, and verify x1000... is my policy with her.

[ July 12, 2013, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: DarkJello ]

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Wayward Son
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Interestingly enough, this delay in requiring some employers to provide affordable insurance only affects somewhere around 1% of the workforce. So there really isn't that much impact from this delay.
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DarkJello
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Doctors at the British Medical Association’s annual conference in Edinburgh called for a system of regulation in response to the Mid Staffordshire Foundation trust scandal, so that managers could be “struck off” for bullying doctors, or putting finances before patients.
Dr Peter Holden, a member of the BMA’s GP negotiating committee, said the lack of regulation allowed senior managers to operate in a culture of secrecy and overt bullying, while the most extreme incidents were hidden by gagging clauses.
He said: "The result is the perfect toxic professional working environment for this explosive mixture to generate disasters such as Mid Staffordshire which did so much harm to patients. Not even in Communist China did they have managers overruling doctors in the operation of hospitals and health services.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/10141476/NHS-is-worse-than-communist-China-say-doctors.html?fb

This will never happen in America. Our government is WAY smarter, right? Thanks goodness for His brilliance.

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LetterRip
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DarkJello,

quote:
This will never happen in America. Our government is WAY smarter, right? Thanks goodness for His brilliance.
You do realize corporate run medical facilities - ie the majority of facilities in the US - managers already overrule doctors? Including having the ability to fire doctors? That doctors who belong to HMOs must follow contractually determined 'medically necessary' treatments?

http://www.hmohardball.com/dirty_tricks.html

Ie our current practice is already much worse than what they worry might occur?

[ July 12, 2013, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: LetterRip ]

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jamwired
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I would think any business preparing to cut hours of full-time employees in the fall would have to engage in mass hiring now to train those who would fill those hours. It might explain the unexplainable good job numbers for June. It would be politically beneficial for the administration to point to the mandate delay to explain there is no reason for any cutbacks when they start to occur.This is all speculation on my part, of course.

@Chael, Was there massive job hiring six months before your employer cut your hours?

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Pyrtolin
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Of course, if they're doing that, then they're pretty much belying the complaint that they're making, since they're going to be spending more dealing with training and turnover, and losing more to lower overall productivity from their employees, especially as the better ones are hired away by employers willing offer full time work and benefits. than it would cost them to invest in maintaining their current work force.

There's going to be an adjustment period until that settles out, but that's unavoidable with any change, really. It just rather annoying that Congress is too hamstrung to provide sufficient support to minimize the effects while the shift occurs as employers that refuse to offer reasonable compensation get displaced by those who are.

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Seneca
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The interesting thing is that the Republicans are now using this Obamacare delay to argue that even if they passed a law requiring new border enforcement Obama would simply refuse to enforce that part of the law.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/14/house-republicans-press-new-immigration-tack-obama-wont-enforce-border-security/

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Seriati
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quote:
Originally posted by Greg Davidson:
My master's thesis in grad school was on why taxpayer's cheat. Based on the research at that time, the groups most likely to cheat would include those who had the lowest level of respect for the IRS - those who sincerely questioned the morality of the federal government in levying taxes, and who believed that cheating was morally acceptable. If you followed that logic, you would wind up targeting for audit people with anti-tax beliefs, which includes followers of the Tea Party. The Obama Administration correctly did not do this (see: IRS sham scandal about asking questions for allegedly non-political groups asking for a tax break), nor do I believe they should. But that would be the logical implication of the recommendation to audit "anyone and everyone that appears to be cheating". They do target wealthier taxpayers who are more likely to be cheating in large amounts, as well as those engaged in professions where there is less verification of the income that they may have earned.

Umm.. if you follow this "logic" you'd audit poor people, cash workers and tip earners for audits. And if you did, you'd find a very high percentage of tax fraud but only reclaim a comparatively miniscule amount versus the costs of the audits.

The IRS targets the middle class and the rich, not because they are particularly likely to commit fraud but because they can collect bigger judgments from them. I suspect that most of what they catch is more in the nature of mistakes or borderline deductions than actual fraud.

And contrary to what was bandied about, I doubt 1%'ers commit much in the way of tax fraud at all. In my experience they take tax issues seriously and tax planning as a way of life and a cost of business. They also typically have effective tax counsel. Using government tax policies to pay less tax is not fraud. What is different about them though, is that when they are committing tax fraud the numbers tend to be headline worthy.

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G3
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quote:
Originally posted by Pyrtolin:
Of course, if they're doing that, then they're pretty much belying the complaint that they're making, since they're going to be spending more dealing with training and turnover, and losing more to lower overall productivity from their employees, especially as the better ones are hired away by employers willing offer full time work and benefits. than it would cost them to invest in maintaining their current work force.

Of course, they are doing that. Is it your experience that business, in general, chooses the most expensive options around biulding and maintaining a workforce? That's a rhetorical question.

You can make the ill-informed claim that going to a part time economy is going to cost more - and it is - but it's going to cost less than the ObamaCare burdens. That's why we're all doing it out here in the business world. It's the economic reality, not economic opinion. The unions and others out in the real world are realizing this.

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G3
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quote:
Originally posted by jamwired:
I would think any business preparing to cut hours of full-time employees in the fall would have to engage in mass hiring now to train those who would fill those hours. It might explain the unexplainable good job numbers for June. It would be politically beneficial for the administration to point to the mandate delay to explain there is no reason for any cutbacks when they start to occur.This is all speculation on my part, of course.

@Chael, Was there massive job hiring six months before your employer cut your hours?

Seems you may be on to something ...

quote:
For the entire U.S. workforce, employers have added far more part-time employees in 2013—averaging 93,000 a month, seasonally adjusted—than full-time workers, which have averaged 22,000. Last year the reverse was true, with employers adding 31,000 part-time workers monthly, compared with 171,000 full-time ones.

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Chael
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quote:
Originally posted by jamwired:
@Chael, Was there massive job hiring six months before your employer cut your hours?

No, but I'm a college professor, so different rules apply (we aren't trained up, we're just hired by the institution--'welcome to working with us' takes about three hours.). There /was/ a massive job fair for part-time instructors just before the news was officially announced--of course, it had reached many of us through unofficial channels before then.

So yes, this is exactly, on the nose, what my employer is doing. These changes will take effect in the next semester, and so far the unofficially-promised additional full time positions haven't materialized. Given how late in the year it is, I'm guessing they probably won't, unless having a part-time to full-time faculty ratio this out of whack gets the institution in question in trouble with its accreditation agency.

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DarkJello
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The following gives me perverse satisfaction, for some reason:

Teamsters chief James Hoffa, UFCW chief Joseph Hansen, and UNITE-HERE chief Donald Taylor last week penned a letter to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) and Democratic Majority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) begging Congress to change the law before it shatters “not only our hard-earned health benefits, but destroy the foundation of the 40 hour work week that is the backbone of the American middle class.”

The letter continues:

Time is running out: Congress wrote this law; we voted for you. We have a problem; you need to fix it. The unintended consequences of the ACA are severe. Perverse incentives are already creating nightmare scenarios:

First, the law creates an incentive for employers to keep employees’ work hours below 30 hours a week. Numerous employers have begun to cut workers’ hours to avoid this obligation, and many of them are doing so openly. The impact is two-fold: fewer hours means less pay while also losing our current health benefits.

Second, millions of Americans are covered by non-profit health insurance plans like the ones in which most of our members participate. These non-profit plans are governed jointly by unions and companies under the Taft-Hartley Act. Our health plans have been built over decades by working men and women. Under the ACA as interpreted by the Administration, our employees will treated differently and not be eligible for subsidies afforded other citizens. As such, many employees will be relegated to second-class status and shut out of the help the law offers to for-profit insurance plans.

The letter and its frantic tone are a little confusing considering it wasn’t too long ago that unions actively supported President Barack Obama’s landmark health care overhaul.

Perhaps union bosses should have paid more attention to the bill when it was being passed. Perhaps they, like many Americans, should have demanded that it be read before being signed into law.

Meanwhile, Sen. Reid continues to praise the bill, saying at one point last week that it has been “wonderful for America.”

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/16/unions-frantically-searching-for-a-way-out-of-obamacare/

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