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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » " Swaps Probe Finds Banks Rigged Rate at Expense of Retirees"

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Author Topic: " Swaps Probe Finds Banks Rigged Rate at Expense of Retirees"
philnotfil
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This is different from capitalism.

bloomberg.com

quote:
U.S. investigators uncovered evidence that banks reaped millions of dollars in trading profits at the expense of companies and pension funds by manipulating a benchmark for interest-rate derivatives.

Recorded telephone calls and e-mails reviewed by the Commodity Futures Trading Commission show that traders at Wall Street banks instructed ICAP Plc brokers in Jersey City, New Jersey, to buy or sell as many interest-rate swaps as necessary to move the benchmark rate, known as ISDAfix, to a predetermined level, according to a person with knowledge of the matter.

By rigging the measure, the banks stood to profit on separate derivatives trades they had with clients who were seeking to hedge against moves in interest rates. Banks sought to change the value of the swaps because the ISDAfix rate sets prices for the other derivatives, which are used by firms from the California Public Employees’ Retirement System to Pacific Investment Management Co., said the person, who asked not to be identified because the details aren’t public.

quote:
The phone calls and e-mails emerging since Bloomberg News first reported in April on the rigging of ISDAfix add to growing evidence that banks have gained financially by distorting key financial gauges in world markets on everything from interest rates to currencies to commodities.

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TomDavidson
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I am so glad you included that last quote. My first reaction was, "Isn't this the thing I was pissed about in April?" *laugh*
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G3
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This is just another phony scandal.
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TomDavidson
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Why do you think it's phony, G3? It seems to me that most of the profit in modern derivatives trading relies on skirting the edge of the law -- on either side of it.

[ August 05, 2013, 10:00 AM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]

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G3
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Sorry, I guess we should be more clear. Does this help or hurt Obama? If it helps, it's a genuine scandal and everyone should be outraged. If it hurts, then it's phony. I believe that it the correct newspeak definition of "phony scandal".

My guess, as this is closely related to the crony capitalism that dominates this regime, is that it would hurt Obama so, by definition, it is a phony scandal.

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TomDavidson
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Ah. So you weren't actually talking to anyone on this board, then. Right-o.
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G3
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Touched a nerve did I? [LOL]
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Wayward Son
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Only in your own mind, G3. Only in your own mind... [Frown]
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TomDavidson
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What I don't understand is that I pretty clearly consider this a serious scandal, despite having no relationship to Obama whatsoever, so I don't know what nerve G3 could think he's talking about.
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G3
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quote:
Originally posted by Wayward Son:
Only in your own mind, G3. Only in your own mind... [Frown]

When someone makes a post designed only to be a bit of an insult, like you just did too, it's because they know they need to discredit something. Can't discredit the idea so they go for a discredit of the person. Classical ad hominem fallacy. Only in your own mind, is this considered a reasonable responce Only in your own mind... [Frown]
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G3
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
What I don't understand is that I pretty clearly consider this a serious scandal, despite having no relationship to Obama whatsoever, so I don't know what nerve G3 could think he's talking about.

You think there's no relationship between bankers and Obama? Really?
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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
What I don't understand is that I pretty clearly consider this a serious scandal, despite having no relationship to Obama whatsoever, so I don't know what nerve G3 could think he's talking about.

I'd say the lack of a significant record of investigation and prosecution, as well as favoring insiders like Geithner and Summers craetes a bit of a relation.

The financial industry should have been taken to the cleaners for this 4 years ago as part of a top to bottom audit, instead of little bits and pieces trickling out over time.

I'm perfectly happy to have this reflect poorly on the current administration, because unlike other trumped up nonsense that mostly serves to waste resources and attention that should be going to this stuff, this is finally some real meat where it has completely dropped the ball.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
You think there's no relationship between bankers and Obama? Really?
Not any more than there's been since deregulation. Sadly, I now take it as a given that the regulatory agencies are in bed with the financial industry. It reflects badly on Obama, sure, but it's less a presidential thing than a "Hey, we as a country are pretty much wholly owned by banks and speculators now."

I would love -- love -- to see a presidential candidate campaign on a platform of again enforcing existing financial regulations and resurrecting dissolved ones. I don't care which party that person'd belong to; that's one of the single most important issues facing our country right now, and the destruction of financial speculators is something that I'd be happy to get behind. Sadly, I've only seen two candidates in sixteen years that've even given that lip service, and one of them was blatantly pandering while the other was considered too "out there" to be electable.

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TomDavidson
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In fact, I seem to recall saying something along this line in the last election. I wasn't planning to vote for Obama at all, precisely because I loathed his close connections to Goldman Sachs and the previous administration's anointed regulators, and only did so because Paul Ryan got the VP nod -- Ryan, who's in bed with payday lenders and is the worst sort of emptyheaded corporate puppet. Had Romney picked pretty much anyone else, I'd've stayed away from the polls entirely.
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Wayward Son
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quote:
When someone makes a post designed only to be a bit of an insult, like you just did too, it's because they know they need to discredit something. Can't discredit the idea so they go for a discredit of the person. Classical ad hominem fallacy.
I was responding to this classic post of yours:

quote:
Touched a nerve did I? [LOL]
which is a bit of an insult and doesn't discredit the idea. So, yes, I was discrediting you, because you had just discredited yourself. You did exactly what you are criticizing me of doing.

Also, I was trying to point out in an oblique way that you are the only person who believes this has anything to do with Obama. So it could not "touch a nerve" with Tom. It would only touch a nerve if Tom thought Obama had anything to do with it, which apparently is only you, although you apparently believe everyone else (or at least Tom) believes this too.

That's why it's "only in your mind," because you are the only one who believes it here.

Alas, a joke is always ruined when you have to explain it. [Frown]

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scifibum
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G3, if you paid closer attention, you'd realize that plenty of left leaning members are quite critical of Obama.

This is bigger than Obama, although his failure to address this kind of collusion is a very bad sign; I think both parties are corrupt and useless when it comes to reigning in big money interests.

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PSRT
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quote:
G3, if you paid closer attention, you'd realize that plenty of left leaning members are quite critical of Obama.
Facts are unnecessary to G3's construction of the world. They even go beyond unnecessary, venturing into the realm of unwanted.

OrneryMod: This sort of post is not appropriate for these forums. Please treat every other member with respect, even if you disagree with them. Please check your email

[ August 06, 2013, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: OrneryMod ]

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DarkJello
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quote:
Originally posted by G3:
This is just another phony scandal.

Pretty much this. And yeah, I am that cynical about the powers that be.

quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
This is bigger than Obama, although his failure to address this kind of collusion is a very bad sign; I think both parties are corrupt and useless when it comes to reigning in big money interests.

This.

[ August 06, 2013, 12:21 AM: Message edited by: DarkJello ]

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