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Author Topic: All I need is some racism. Oberlin looked around, but since racism was scarce...
Mariner
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There was none to be found. Did that stop Oberlin? "Ha!" Oberlin simply said. "If I can't find any racism, I'll make some instead!"

Some of you may have been aware of the Oberlin College incident this past February. Starting early February, a series of racist flyers, banners, and online postings appeared throughout the liberal Oberlin College. The subject matter included Nazi flags, anti-Islamic remarks, homophobia, and denigrating Black History Month. Things reached a peak on March 4 when reports of someone in a KKK robe walking through campus appeared (it was just a girl wrapped in a blanket), and the College suspended classes for a day in order to hold solidarity rallies and the like.

Well, thanks to the efforts of a legal professor and the Daily Caller, many of the facts about this terrible string of events have emerged. The identity of the culprits is of no surprise to anyone who pays attention to this sort of thing, but the actions of the College itself may be somewhat shocking. "May be", because it really does fit in with a rather perverse worldview.

By early February, campus police had zeroed in on two suspects, who admitted to some of the actions but not all. On Febraury 27, the police caught them red handed. They also subpoenaed Google to find the identity of the purpetrator behind some of the emails (using a gmail account named after the college president), and sure enough it was one of the two.

The culprits? Left wing activists named Dylan Bleier and Matt Alden. They basically did it to troll. Call it a hoax, call it a prank, call it an attempt to stir something up, but whatever it was, it wasn't motivated by actual Nazi sympathies. Again, to anyone that actually follows reports of such racist attacks on campus, this isn't a surprise. Plenty of people suspected it of being a hoax in the first place.

The surprising part? Look at the dates. The campus police were tipped off to these two on Feb 11. They caught them Feb 27. And yet, the hysteria continued for at least another week, at which point the administration decided to cancel classes to hold a day of solidarity.

Given the high profile nature of these crimes, do you really think the president of the College was aware of the investigation? Do you really think he didn't know, at that point, that the whole thing was basically a hoax?

And did he do anything to calm the student body down? People were hallucinating KKK robes! Mass hysteria and mob mentality could have lead to panic, and someone could have been injured. More to the point, how many members of the student body had their education suffer because of these distractions? (Answer: all of them; classes were cancelled for a day, after all...)

You own a crowded theatre. You overhear some pranksters planning to shout "Fire". You have access to an intercom. The pranksters then yell fire in a crowded theatre. Do you get on the intercom to calm people down, or do you just let it go? And if you just let it go, how culpable are you in the ensuing panic?

That's the key fact here. I claim that The President of Oberlin College participated in a hoax and fanned the flames of racism. He did not initiate the hoax, but even after learning the truth (again, I'm sure he was in communication with the campus police on this manner), he allowed it to continue. He harmed the education of his entire student body, and allowed fear and distrust to manifest itself on his college.

All he had to do was make a statement saying that this is likely a hoax and there is no need for concern. Privacy laws and ongoing investigations would certainly allow for that, would it not. Instead, he decided to organize a response to "intolerance" that he knew did not exist!

Why? I have my suspicions.

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Seneca
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I was thinking of making a new thread about modern racism in America, which is basically anti-white racism.

Recently we've had the gang-induction racist killing of the white Australian college student by 2 blacks and their "wanna be" white accomplice, we also had 2 black teens beat a white WW2 veteran to death here in my state as well. Where is the outrage and condemnation of the racist motivation in these from the MSM, Obama and Sharpton/Jackson? Not one word. In the case of the Australian teen they are even trying to make it out to be a gun control issue despite their recent stance on the Zimmerman case! Absurd!

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Pyrtolin
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quote:
And did he do anything to calm the student body down?
That was most likely exactly the point of cancelling classes for a day and giving the students and event that helped them feel that the baseline issue that they were worked up about was being respected. (It doesn't matter that the specific incident that set them off turned out to be a hoax any more than it matters whether it was a burglar or the wind blowing on a poorly latched door that sets your alarm off.

When it became clear that merely stopping the perpetrators wasn't enough to calm the students, he took a fairly reasonable next step to address the actual cause of the discontent rather than sticking his head in the sand and pretending that the hoax, not the issue that it highlighted, was at the root of the discontent.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
Where is the outrage and condemnation of the racist motivation in these from the MSM...
I'm a little confused. Where are the people arguing these killers shouldn't have been prosecuted or arrested? Who has prominently defended them?

In the absence of anyone suggesting that these murders were appropriate, why would outrage be necessary?

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KidTokyo
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We should stop referring to white people as "white." End the concept entirely. It was a racist notion from the beginning, about how pure and clean and noble Europeans thought they were compared to the rest of the world.

We're were colored just like everyone else. If "white" folk would stop obsessing about whiteness it would do a lot to repair their relations with the world outside.

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Aris Katsaris
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quote:
It doesn't matter that the specific incident that set them off turned out to be a hoax
Bull$hit.

Bull$hit.

Let me reiterate: That's bull$hit.

I guess you wouldn't have cared either if George W. Bush arranged to hide some tons of chemical weapons in Iraq, and then used that to drive his political agenda?

After all it doesn't matter if the surface truth is actually a lie, there's the deeper truth to be concerned about. And since your political side really KNOWS the deeper political truth, every individual surface lie doesn't matter in the pursuit of that deeper truth, right?

It's just a strange coincidence that those deep truths are always so very deep that they must be illustrated by a bunch of lies.

Everyone knew that Jews are the number one problem in the world so what does it matter if some Russians create the hoax of the "Protocols of Zion". It's all in the service of the "deeper truth".

Everyone knows that racism is supposedly the number-one problem in America, so what does it matter if we create the hoax of illustrating that? It's all in the service of the deeper truth.

Bloody vile liars. Everyone who creates a hoax like this, should be penalized (socially, legally, whatever) at least two times than someone who does it for real.

OrneryMod: Please do not use alternative spellings or characters to circumvent the language filter. Warning issued.

[ August 26, 2013, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: OrneryMod ]

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Aris Katsaris
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quote:
In the absence of anyone suggesting that these murders were appropriate, why would outrage be necessary?
Whoever committed them thought them appropriate.
Whoever commits the next bunch of murders will also think them appropriate.

But that's okay because Jesse Jackson "frowns upon" the murders.

Seriously, can you imagine a more *mild* condemnation of a murder than that? Praising with faint damnation is what that's called.

Black racists kill keep murdering white people for their racist reasons, and Jesse Jackson will keep on mildly 'frowning upon' them. And perhaps quietly smiling in the inside.

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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
Where is the outrage and condemnation of the racist motivation in these from the MSM...
I'm a little confused. Where are the people arguing these killers shouldn't have been prosecuted or arrested? Who has prominently defended them?

In the absence of anyone suggesting that these murders were appropriate, why would outrage be necessary?

Outrage that there are losers out there that argue that the acts should not be prosecuted as hate crimes, in spite of the laws on the books.
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by KidTokyo:
We should stop referring to white people as "white." End the concept entirely. It was a racist notion from the beginning, about how pure and clean and noble Europeans thought they were compared to the rest of the world.

We're were colored just like everyone else. If "white" folk would stop obsessing about whiteness it would do a lot to repair their relations with the world outside.

In your world, is it self-described whites that obsess about whiteness and talk about a so-called 'white community'?

I vote for "pinks."

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KidTokyo
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quote:
In your world, is it self-described whites that obsess about whiteness and talk about a so-called 'white community'?
Yes.
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TomDavidson
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quote:
Black racists kill keep murdering white people for their racist reasons, and Jesse Jackson will keep on mildly 'frowning upon' them. And perhaps quietly smiling in the inside.
I find the suggestion that Jesse Jackson approves of the murder of random Australian tourists to be pretty damn odious. It doesn't say very good things about you.

You know, the whole "black teens sought out white people to kill" saw is tiresome, too. In the case of the vet, it's pretty obvious -- based on every single piece of evidence, as well as the statements of police and investigators -- that two teenagers were out looking for someone easy to rob and settled on an old man in an empty parking lot.

As for the Australian murder: you had three teenagers looking for someone to die. At least one of them does indeed seem to have harbored some hatred of "whites," but the same father whose claim that the act was a "gang initiation" is being reported by Sydney papers is also saying that his son -- who is black -- was the second on a list of five targets. But more importantly: the kids were promptly arrested, no one is arguing that they shouldn't be tried for murder, etc. There is no systematic resistance here to processing this crime as a crime.

So I find it a little histrionic -- as well as hypocritical -- for white people to throw out this sort of thing as "proof" of "reverse racism," when what we see is a system that is not remotely trying to avoid prosecution of these murders.

[ August 26, 2013, 08:56 AM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]

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Aris Katsaris
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> I find the suggestion that Jesse Jackson approves of the murder of random Australian tourists to be pretty damn odious

Why? Because of the suggestion itself, or because it's targetted to a prominent member of your political team?

[ August 26, 2013, 09:01 AM: Message edited by: Aris Katsaris ]

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Aris Katsaris
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quote:
There is no systematic resistance here to processing this crime as a crime.
No, there's just systematic resistance to seeing this as anything but an isolated phenomenon that means nothing politically, or societally, or racially.

While in the Zimmerman case, people reached deep into their arses to claim that it supposedly had something to do with racial profiling, or with guns, or with Florida Stand-your-ground laws.

That's also how it works in Greece whenever Neonazis stab and kill immigrants for fun. Every *individual* murder is a crime, of course, of course; but who gives a damn about the killings as a societal/political/racial phenomenon in general?

Even the Neonazis can "frown upon" the individual murders. God forbid that anyone declares this as part of a wider phenomenon that must be condemned politically though. If politicians condemned such murders as acts of political/racial terrorism, then they might have to actually oppose racism.

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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Everyone knows that racism is supposedly the number-one problem in America, so what does it matter if we create the hoax of illustrating that? It's all in the service of the deeper truth.
You're responding to something completely divorced from what I was talking about. I didn't say a thing about the people perpetrating the hoax, but rather about the school administrations actions taken to find a way to help calm the student body and give it a chance to vent the anger over racism that had been stirred up in a non-harmful way.
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TomDavidson
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*blink*
The idea that Jesse Jackson is a prominent member of my "political team" betrays either serious lack of political acumen or a general misunderstanding of my political team.

What I find odious about it is that you're suggesting a random person you've never met, who is guilty at worst of caring about pet issues without taking the time to examine the nuances, has become so embittered against people who don't share his skin color due to his long fight on behalf of people with his skin color that he smiles inwardly at their murder.

To put this in perspective: you have more reason to think that Lisa hates Palestinians in general than Jackson hates white people in general, but it would still be odious for you to suggest that Lisa smiles inwardly every time a Palestinian is murdered by a random Israeli Jew. Do you understand why?

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TomDavidson
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quote:
No, there's just systematic resistance to seeing this as anything but an isolated phenomenon that means nothing politically, or societally, or racially.
As a social issue, I don't see anyone not recognizing that teenagers going around randomly killing people -- in numbers that are not statistically anomalous, mind you, but that's another discussion -- is a bad thing. It's been a complaint since the late '60s, became a full-fledged panic in the '80s (when we blamed it on Satanism and, later, crack cocaine), and has been falling in incidence since the mid-'90s. Mass murders/suicide-by-cop events are up, but random killings and violent theft resulting in murder are both down.

I don't know what other sort of social statement would be necessary to derive from random killings. The idea that an elderly black man in that same parking lot would have been safe from mugging at that moment suggests facts not in evidence.

Statistically, when you crunch the numbers, what you find is that the idea of "black-on-white" or "black-on-black" crime is largely a myth. There is a small statistical bump for "white-on-black" crime, where people who are white are slightly more likely when all else is held equal to commit violent crime against blacks; blacks are also statistically more likely to commit crimes against Asians, and Asians and Hispanics are statistically more likely to commit crimes against, well, anyone who isn't Asian or Hispanic. But the trick is that you have to hold all else equal, and the single biggest factor in determining whether you'll fall victim to a crime is not your skin color or your income but how close you happen to live to two or more criminals.

The idea that people are seeking out members of another race to steal from is complete bull, whipped up to sell ponies to either side. There are people out there who still perform acts of violence meant to terrorize one group or another, which is the ostensible "logic" behind hate crime legislation, but I don't see anything that suggests either of the deaths we're discussing here fall into that category.

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Aris Katsaris
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quote:
What I find odious about it is that you're suggesting a random person you've never met, who is guilty at worst of caring about pet issues without taking the time to examine the nuances, has become so embittered against people who don't share his skin color due to his long fight on behalf of people with his skin color that he smiles inwardly at their murder.
Given Jesse Jackson's sanctification of bloodthirsty thug Treyvon Martin, I would not make a bet on Jesse Jackson *sincerely* opposing bloodthirsty thuggery.

[ August 26, 2013, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: Aris Katsaris ]

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TomDavidson
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quote:
Given Jesse Jackson's sanctification of bloodthirsty thug Treyvon Martin...
Yeah, you really aren't doing so well at not sounding like an *******, Aris.

OrneryMod: Please refrain from name calling. Please check your email.

[ August 26, 2013, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: OrneryMod ]

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AI Wessex
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"...bloodthirsty thug Treyvon Martin..."

I'm stunned by the extent of your visceral hatred toward Martin.

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Aris Katsaris
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Oh, am I not being as much of a "gentleman" (Jesse Jackson's word) as Treyvon Martin?

Tom, perhaps you should care less about whether you sound as an *******, and care more about whether you are one.

OrneryMod: This sort of response is not appropriate. Please check your email.

[ August 26, 2013, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: OrneryMod ]

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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by Seneca:
I was thinking of making a new thread about modern racism in America, which is basically anti-white racism.

Recently we've had the gang-induction racist killing of the white Australian college student by 2 blacks and their "wanna be" white accomplice, we also had 2 black teens beat a white WW2 veteran to death here in my state as well. Where is the outrage and condemnation of the racist motivation in these from the MSM, Obama and Sharpton/Jackson? Not one word. In the case of the Australian teen they are even trying to make it out to be a gun control issue despite their recent stance on the Zimmerman case! Absurd!

Exactly what position of power were these people exercising their prejudice from to the detriment of a race with less power?

The murders may have been acting based on personal prejudices, but it's grossly inaccurate to call it racism, unless you can point to the way in which it applies societal power to perpetuate or otherwise sanction biased treatment of people who are currently disadvantage along racial lines.

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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by Seneca:
I was thinking of making a new thread about modern racism in America, which is basically anti-white racism.

Recently we've had the gang-induction racist killing of the white Australian college student by 2 blacks and their "wanna be" white accomplice, we also had 2 black teens beat a white WW2 veteran to death here in my state as well. Where is the outrage and condemnation of the racist motivation in these from the MSM, Obama and Sharpton/Jackson? Not one word. In the case of the Australian teen they are even trying to make it out to be a gun control issue despite their recent stance on the Zimmerman case! Absurd!

Exactly what position of power were these people exercising their prejudice from to the detriment of a race with less power?

The murders may have been acting based on personal prejudices, but it's grossly inaccurate to call it racism, unless you can point to the way in which it applies societal power to perpetuate or otherwise sanction biased treatment of people who are currently disadvantage along racial lines.

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Seneca
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quote:
Originally posted by Pyrtolin:
quote:
Originally posted by Seneca:
I was thinking of making a new thread about modern racism in America, which is basically anti-white racism.

Recently we've had the gang-induction racist killing of the white Australian college student by 2 blacks and their "wanna be" white accomplice, we also had 2 black teens beat a white WW2 veteran to death here in my state as well. Where is the outrage and condemnation of the racist motivation in these from the MSM, Obama and Sharpton/Jackson? Not one word. In the case of the Australian teen they are even trying to make it out to be a gun control issue despite their recent stance on the Zimmerman case! Absurd!

Exactly what position of power were these people exercising their prejudice from to the detriment of a race with less power?

The murders may have been acting based on personal prejudices, but it's grossly inaccurate to call it racism, unless you can point to the way in which it applies societal power to perpetuate or otherwise sanction biased treatment of people who are currently disadvantage along racial lines.

I can easily make the case that these actions were furthered by the media and by Obama. Obama especially has chosen to be a divider instead of a uniter. Despite his mixed heritage he thinks of himself as "black" and constantly sees the glass half full, and incites racial flames all across America.

Looks like the public agrees.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/25/race-relations-have-plummeted-since-obama-took-office-according-to-poll/

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Aris Katsaris
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quote:
Exactly what position of power were these people exercising their prejudice from
The power to kill, obviously.

quote:
The murders may have been acting based on personal prejudices, but it's grossly inaccurate to call it racism, unless you can point to the way in which it applies societal power to perpetuate or otherwise sanction biased treatment of people who are currently disadvantaged along racial lines.
Oh, that's easy. E.g. if black people kill white people, this leads to white people fearing black neighborhoods more, which ends up encouraging racially segregated communities via "white flight". The quality of life in those neighborhoods decreases, leading in turn to even more crime, leading to black people being even more perceived as criminals, etc, etc.

Yes, I *know* how the definition you just offered was in fact especially designed to claim that no black person can ever be racist, ever. The *amusing* bit, however, is that we take the definition seriously (rather than the motivation behind its design), it actually works the other way around: *Any* stereotypically 'bad' behaviour by black people (including criminality), automatically becomes a racist deed as it's an instance of how social power contributes to perpetuating the misery and disprivilege of black people.

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Pyrtolin
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To put what you said another way: Obama isn't willing to stop pointing out that the ship is still sinking, so it's his fault for being divisive, not the people who are trying to pretend that everything is fine while they keep making the hole bigger.
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Seneca
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The ship is sinking... my god. The ship has been steadily rising ever since 1865 and it's continually getting better.

In my youth, I suffered racism because I was dark skinned, but since having and adopting our children, the only one of them that has ever experienced any racism has been our daughter we adopted from the Ukraine because she was seen hanging around with a "dark" family by other racist blacks. She was harassed throughout school by blacks when she hung around her siblings. Funny, in opposite situations her white friends at school were never uncomfortable around her black brothers and sisters.

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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by Aris Katsaris:
quote:
Exactly what position of power were these people exercising their prejudice from
The power to kill, obviously.
Where is the law or social convention that bestows them that power? You're confusing ability and power here.

If the murder case against them was likely to be dismissed out of hand or not even brought then you could point to a power that they enjoy, even if it's not officially granted, but the fact that you can do something is not equivalent to being empowered to do it.

quote:

quote:
The murders may have been acting based on personal prejudices, but it's grossly inaccurate to call it racism, unless you can point to the way in which it applies societal power to perpetuate or otherwise sanction biased treatment of people who are currently disadvantaged along racial lines.
Oh, that's easy. E.g. if black people kill white people, this leads to white people fearing black neighborhoods more, which ends up encouraging racially segregated communities via "white flight". The quality of life in those neighborhoods decreases, leading in turn to even more crime, leading to black people being even more perceived as criminals, etc, etc.
So, in other words, even in your example, the more economically empowered race is able to escape the negative consequences, through leaving the area, while all of the negative consequences fall on the less empowered race. It's not whites who suffer in that example, but racism is defined in the context of who suffers from it.

If you want to turn it around, you would also have to assert that blacks had sufficient control of law enforcement and the courts such that charges against them were generally not brought or quickly dismissed, and rather than causing a criminal spiral, they maintained control of economic prosperity while other races were driven to the fringes. In doing so, you'd also better highlight the important systematic elements that are at play above and beyond individual prejudice.

quote:
Yes, I *know* how the definition you just offered was in fact especially designed to claim that no black person can ever be racist, ever.
Not even remotely. It's intended to keep it clear that the issue is the social damage caused to the victims by the combination of prejudices, active or passive, and power. When a black doctor, completely unintentionally, regularly chooses to give a black patient heartburn medication instead of medicine to avert a heart attack based on an otherwise identical set of symptoms, that's just as much evidence of racism as when a white doctor does it.

No race has any kind of monopoly on subscribing to or perpetuating racist systems; the nature of the systems are defined entirely in the degree to which they encourage and perpetuate inequity along racial lines.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
Funny, in opposite situations her white friends at school were never uncomfortable around her black brothers and sisters.
Are you familiar with how "privilege" works? Don't just dismiss it as a ridiculous buzzword before you answer. Seriously, do you know how the social concept of "privilege" affects that scenario?

quote:
Tom, perhaps you should care less about whether you sound as an *******, and care more about whether you are one.
I care quite profoundly. You'll notice that I'm not the one accusing a dead teen of bring a murderous thug, or suggesting that a famous politician and religious figure harbors a secret love of race-fueled murder. I treat people pretty damn well, and I refer to them pretty damn well, too. I don't know why you're so terrified of "thugs," Aris, but it makes you profoundly irrational on the topic of, well, black people.
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Aris Katsaris
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quote:
You're confusing ability and power here.
Seriously now? Seriously?

If you want to have "power" mean "legal or social authority" then say "legal or social authority". Power is ambiguous if you don't want to use it to mean "ability".

quote:
So, in other words, even in your example, the more economically empowered race is able to escape the negative consequences,
Well, except the ones who are dead.

quote:
but racism is defined in the context of who suffers from it.
Is there anyone who doesn't suffer? The white dead victim and his family are the primary sufferers. The secondary (becoming primary, after said flight) sufferers are the black community who are oppressed internally by such gangs. The tertiary sufferers are the whole rest of the country, since nobody benefits from the existence of a crimeridden ghetto.

Everyone suffers from the anti-white racism, *and certainly* black people.

Nobody is arguing that Christopher Lane's killing actually *benefitted* black people. Nor did it benefit the black community that James Edwards "knocced out 5 woods since Zimmerman court".

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Aris Katsaris
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quote:
I don't know why you're so terrified of "thugs," Aris, but it makes you profoundly irrational on the topic of, well, black people.
You're confusing hatred with fear, Tom. I hate your American local variety of "gangsta" thugs, for the exact same reason that I hate Neonazi thugs in Greece, or Islamist thugs in Afghanistan.

Because they're vile individuals that hurt innocents and spread misery and suffering for everyone. And I hate the people who defend those thugs -- I hate the Greek politicians that defend the Neonazi thugs, and for the same reason I hate the American politicians that defend your particular "gangsta"-variety thugs.

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Aris Katsaris
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quote:
You'll notice that I'm not the one accusing a dead teen of bring a murderous thug
The Christopher Lane killers were also teens, even younger than Trayvon Martin. It seems that being a teen doesn't make one immune to thuggery.
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TomDavidson
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I think you're confusing two different type of thug, by and large. Heck, I think all three of the thugs you've mentioned are very different groups. But even if we let that slide and accept that all three groups are mainly composed of bad people who do bad things for bad reasons, it seems to me that politicians who defend fringe neonazis are far, far less harmful than politicians who defend bankers.

-------

quote:
It seems that being a teen doesn't make one immune to thuggery.
Oh, absolutely. The difference here is that you're willing to set the bar pretty low for "thuggery," to extend it to people willing to appear thuggish. And while I'm certainly willing to grant that at some point a line is crossed, your willingness to start howling for Trayvon's blood weeks after the last of it had already been shed based on a few tweets and fewer fights than I had in high school is something I find rather regrettable.

[ August 26, 2013, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]

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Pete at Home
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That just depends on how you define racism. Most people define racism as hurtful and unfair racial discrimination. You seem to be employing a politically gerrymandered definition, designed to give some people a free pass.


quote:
Originally posted by Pyrtolin:
quote:
Originally posted by Seneca:
I was thinking of making a new thread about modern racism in America, which is basically anti-white racism.

Recently we've had the gang-induction racist killing of the white Australian college student by 2 blacks and their "wanna be" white accomplice, we also had 2 black teens beat a white WW2 veteran to death here in my state as well. Where is the outrage and condemnation of the racist motivation in these from the MSM, Obama and Sharpton/Jackson? Not one word. In the case of the Australian teen they are even trying to make it out to be a gun control issue despite their recent stance on the Zimmerman case! Absurd!

Exactly what position of power were these people exercising their prejudice from to the detriment of a race with less power?

The murders may have been acting based on personal prejudices, but it's grossly inaccurate to call it racism, unless you can point to the way in which it applies societal power to perpetuate or otherwise sanction biased treatment of people who are currently disadvantage along racial lines.


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Pete at Home
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When Cique and the rest of the SLA rapes Patty Hearst in the closet, that's supposed to be mitigated by issues of race and social class.
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PSRT
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quote:
Given Jesse Jackson's sanctification of bloodthirsty thug Treyvon Martin,
There is,again, literally ZERO evidence to suggest that this is what Treyvon Martin was.

The conjunction of your reactions to Martin, and the cases discussed here, looks extremely bigoted to me.

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Aris Katsaris
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quote:
"There is,again, literally ZERO evidence to suggest that this is what Treyvon Martin was"
By saying "zero evidence" are you saying that there are zero events that correlate more to the hypothesis of Treyvon Martin being a bloodthirsty thug than the hypothesis that he wasn't?

Or do you mean it in the sense of "evidence admissible in court"?

quote:
The conjunction of your reactions to Martin, and the cases discussed here, looks extremely bigoted to me.
And the reactions of other people here seems to me extremely sympathetic and tolerant to bloodthirsty thugs, to the detriment of their innocent victims past and present, and to the destruction of the communities they prey upon.

Perhaps if you Americans got your act together and treated thuggery as socially unacceptable as racism, the black community wouldn't have the horrific crime statistics it does. That would be primarily good for *black people*, you know: it'd mean less black-on-black crime.

But no, you don't want to appear bigoted, so excuse away the entire culture of gangsta thuggery, instead of treating it as shameful as KKKers and skinhead neonazis.

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Seneca
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quote:
Originally posted by PSRT:
quote:
Given Jesse Jackson's sanctification of bloodthirsty thug Treyvon Martin,
There is,again, literally ZERO evidence to suggest that this is what Treyvon Martin was.

The conjunction of your reactions to Martin, and the cases discussed here, looks extremely bigoted to me.

you couldn't be more wrong and that's probably the reason we won't see the civil suit. His phone had text messages and media that were relevant to how much he enjoyed fighting and how he wanted to hurt people and see blood from others. Also his social media indicated he was a "gangsta" and also detailed how to make illegal drugs some of the ingredients of which he was actually going to get that night. How much more evidence do you really need?

[ August 26, 2013, 04:48 PM: Message edited by: Seneca ]

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AI Wessex
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I certainly think there is a basis for a civil suit against Zimmerman given his well-documented history of violence, both domestic and social, and his incipient problem with alcohol. You got a couple of tweets from Martin bragging to his girlfriends like a teenager about what he's gonna do to somebody, but for Zimmerman you have police and court records and people willing to step forward and speak to his past.

You sure you have a winner with Martin's "violent" history?

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Seneca
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How about illegal narcotics recipes?
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AI Wessex
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Does that rebut Zimmerman's past?
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