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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Obamacare Predictions for May 2015 (Page 11)

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Author Topic: Obamacare Predictions for May 2015
msquared
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Seneca

It depends on the hospital I guess. My wife and I have made payments on fees owed to hospitals many times. We call them and work out a plan for 6-12 months and it has worked out every time. They do not even charge us interest on the payment plan. We just call them up and tell them we can make monthly payments of $XX per month for X months until it is paid off. Never had an issue.

msquared

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Wayward Son
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quote:
Also, why should she now have to go into debt all because liberal politicians wanted to change her healthcare? Seems grossly unfair.
It is unfair, and I wish her company had not cancelled her insurance. (Since she is paying almost exactly as much per year for the insurance, I'm not sure why they couldn't have continued it. [Confused] ) But the MSM has emphasized that there would be winners and losers, even if the Administration didn't emphasize it. She, unfortunately, is one of the losers.

But compared to the losers in the previous system (inability to get health insurance because of "pre-existing conditions," health insurance too expensive to afford, etc.), we are all much better off overall.

Even Broonstra would prefer the high-deductable heath insurance she has now than being refused any health insurance because of pre-existing leukimia. [Eek!]

quote:
Hospitals send bills to collection agencies faster than you think, sometimes in a matter of weeks. Those agencies will call up tow trucks and even attempt to help the hospital to foreclose on your home.
While that is possible, it is highly unlikely for a $5500 bill that the patient will pay before the end of the year (and can prove it). Once again, would you want to be the hospital known for repossessig a patient's house for a $5000 bill? [LOL]
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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by Seneca:
Hospitals send bills to collection agencies faster than you think, sometimes in a matter of weeks. Those agencies will call up tow trucks and even attempt to help the hospital to foreclose on your home.

They cannot if you're making a good faith effort to pay, even $5-10/month.

And even if the account does go to a medical collection company, they are very stringently regulated in what they can actually do to try to collect.

In the one year timespan in question, putting the premium difference down each month, after prescription copays, would mean that the account could never go to collection before it was payed off.

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Seneca
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You guys are obviously behind the times.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/24/debt-collection-agents-hospitals_n_1449896.html

quote:
Next time you're at the hospital, be on notice: The person taking down your information and admitting you for treatment might not be a hospital employee but a staffer from a debt-collection agency.

Minnesota Attorney General Lori Swanson filed suit against a debt-collection agency called Accretive Health in January after an employee left a laptop containing personal information about for 23,500 patients in a rental car last July. Swanson's lawsuit alleges that Accretive Health's access to patient records violates federal privacy laws.

The case brings attention to the little-known practice of hospital companies embedding debt collectors in their facilities, the New York Times reports.

Americans are being subject to increasingly harsh tactics by debt collectors seeking to recoup money for their clients by using tactics including threats, insults and lies, recent research shows. Lisa Lindsay, an Illinois woman recovering from breast cancer, endured an arrest and a brief stay in jail over an unpaid $280 hospital bill that wasn't even hers.

Hospitals are under increasing financial pressure as health care costs escalate and payment rates from Medicare, Medicaid and private health insurance companies become smaller. And largely because of a decades-old federal law requiring hospitals to provide emergency medical care to anyone, regardless of their ability to pay, hospitals take on tens of billions of dollars in bad debt each year. In 2010, hospitals were stuck with $39.3 billion in unpaid bills, which amounted to 5.6 percent of their total expenses, according to the American Hospital Association.

Cash-hungry hospitals aren't the only obstacle to patients' getting the health care they need. Health insurance premiums continue to rise even as benefits get more meager, joblessness and the sluggish economy are causing many Americans to go without medical care or become uninsured, and the size of hospital bills themselves can be impossible to predict.

Anxiety about dollars and cents has driven hospitals into the arms of aggressive debt collectors, according to the Times:

As a growing number of hospitals struggle under a glut of unpaid bills, they are turning to companies like Accretive. To win promised savings, all hospitals have to do is turn over the management of their front-line staffing -- ranging from patient registration to scheduling and billing -- and their back-office collection activities. Accretive says it has such arrangements with some of the country’s largest hospital systems to help reduce their costs.
Accretive Health works with dozens of U.S. hospitals, including Fairview Health Services and North Memorial Health Care in Minnesota, according to the Times and a press release from Swanson's office. Debt collectors are instructed to ask patients for credit cards or checks when they arrive at an emergency room seeking treatment, the Times reports.


Hospitals across the U.S. are trying new methods of avoiding unpaid bills. HCA, the largest for-profit hospital chain, and other companies have started demanding upfront payments as high as $350 from people in emergency rooms, Kaiser Health News reported in February. In 2011, about 80,000 people walked out of HCA emergency rooms before getting any medical care because of the company's $150 fee, according to Kaiser Health News.

So spare me this nonsense that hospitals can't aggressively pursue debt. They can even get you PUT IN JAIL.
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LetterRip
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Seneca,

it varies by state. I think most states, as long as you continue to make payments (even token amounts), cannot send you to collections or pursue you legally.

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Seneca
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Any information to back that up? Didn't seem to help Lisa Lindsay did it?

In my area some of the houses around me in my neighborhood are for sale and are owned by local hospitals who foreclosed on them.

Seems like this is going in many areas and it is spreading.

quote:
As a growing number of hospitals struggle under a glut of unpaid bills
quote:
Accretive says it has such arrangements with some of the country’s largest hospital systems to help reduce their costs.
quote:
Hospitals across the U.S. are trying new methods of avoiding unpaid bills. HCA, the largest for-profit hospital chain


[ February 28, 2014, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: Seneca ]

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LetterRip
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Seneca,

was she making payments every month? From what I could find that is the key factor. Also, as I said, it varys from state to state (apparently Texas is a 'debtors heaven'.)

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070405075932AAufd4c

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Seneca
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So depending on where you live, the effects of the ACA may screw you over worse than others? How nice. Is there a reason that in order to fix perceived problems with the healthcare system we had to make it harder for people who had managed to make the previous system work OK for them?
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Greg Davidson
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quote:
in order to fix perceived problems with the healthcare system we had to make it harder for people who had managed to make the previous system work OK for them
It comes down to numbers of people. If 90% of the population had net benefits due to ACA, would you eliminate it?

And what percentage of the population do believe are having the problems? As we have seen, Republican propagandists have put forward a number of individual cases as examples of Obamacare problems (every one I have seen has been false - of course, without apologies from those who put them forward) - why aren't there hundreds of individual documented cases on significant material harm? And if there were, would that counter the benefits that have been received by millions of people?

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Seneca
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quote:
Originally posted by Greg Davidson:
quote:
in order to fix perceived problems with the healthcare system we had to make it harder for people who had managed to make the previous system work OK for them
It comes down to numbers of people. If 90% of the population had net benefits due to ACA, would you eliminate it?

And what percentage of the population do believe are having the problems? As we have seen, Republican propagandists have put forward a number of individual cases as examples of Obamacare problems (every one I have seen has been false - of course, without apologies from those who put them forward) - why aren't there hundreds of individual documented cases on significant material harm? And if there were, would that counter the benefits that have been received by millions of people?

Actually what we saw beforehand was of the falsely stated 48.6 million that supposedly lacked healthcare, we are actually likely to see a larger number than that if you factor in people who will remain uninsured + people who will see their quality of insurance and care decrease. So the law is actually making things worse for more people. Even Obamacare's supporters admit that the law will leave 31 million people uninsured, and it has easily decreased the quality and raised cost for at least 40 million Americans who are likely to see their wages decreased or employer coverage decreased when the health law hits them after Obama stops delaying the employer mandate when he no longer cares about winning mid-term elections.
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G3
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quote:
Originally posted by G3:
Already my predictions are coming true!

quote:
Originally posted by G3 on 12-04-2013 04:38 PM:
However, the law can change at any moment and polling data prior to the 2014 elections may drive significant change if the polling data proves inconvenient for Barry and the democrats ...


And even more true ....again:
quote:
The Obama administration is set to announce another major delay in implementing the Affordable Care Act, easing election pressure on Democrats.

As early as this week, according to two sources, the White House will announce a new directive allowing insurers to continue offering health plans that do not meet ObamaCare’s minimum coverage requirements.

Prolonging the “keep your plan” fix will avoid another wave of health policy cancellations otherwise expected this fall.
The cancellations would have created a firestorm for Democratic candidates in the last, crucial weeks before Election Day.

The White House is intent on protecting its allies in the Senate, where Democrats face a battle to keep control of the chamber.

“I don’t see how they could have a bunch of these announcements going out in September,” one consultant in the health insurance industry said. “Not when they’re trying to defend the Senate and keep their losses at a minimum in the House. This is not something to have out there right before the election.”

Totally nailed it.
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Pete at Home
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Politician has idea that he thinks will make things better. Idea passed into law. Snags upon implementation. Politician slows down implementation to iron things out due to popular complaint. Sounds like Democracy functioning as designed.

Mind you I think the ACA's problems run deeper than that. But this particular event isn't that telling about the ACA's biggest problems.

"totally nailed it."

Congradulations. In other news, I predict the sun will set tonight and rise tomorrow.

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G3
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quote:
A supposedly temporary “fix” that President Obama announced in November to address the problem of the millions of Americans who lost coverage as a result of his health care law has now been extended through Oct. 1, 2016, the Department of Health and Human Services announced Wednesday.
Oct. 1, 2016.
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Seneca
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Looks like it's not working as planned.

quote:
ObamaCare appears to be making little progress in signing up uninsured Americans, one of the law's primary goals, according to two new surveys.

Only one in 10 uninsured people who qualify for private plans through the new health insurance marketplaces enrolled as of last month, according to a survey by the consulting firm McKinsey & Co., The Washington Post reported on Thursday.

The McKinsey survey found that only 27 percent of people who have selected a plan on the exchanges described themselves as having previously been without insurance. That percentage is up from 11 percent a month earlier, the report said.

The Obama administration has said 4 million people have signed up for private coverage through the insurance exchanges although it is not known how many of them had been uninsured.

The administration has said 9 million people are eligible for Medicaid, a number that includes renewals. Outside experts estimate that the Medicaid eligible number may be lower, around 3.5 million.

According to McKinsey, the most common reason for not signing up for insurance cited by both previously insured and previously uninsured survey respondents was the perceived challenges in being able to afford coverage.

A second survey by researchers at the Urban Institute, a Washington D.C.-based think tank, found that Americans with lower incomes and those who are uninsured are less likely to know about the ObamaCare marketplaces than others, the Post reported.

The study, based on data from December, concluded that about 23 percent of uninsured respondents, 27 percent of adults in low-income families, and nearly 23 percent of those ages 18 to 34 had not heard about the marketplaces.

Gary Cohen, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services official who oversaw the insurance marketplaces through their troubled rollout, told an insurance industry conference on Thursday that the administration doesn't know how many uninsured Americans are signing up.

"That's not a data point that we are really collecting in any sort of systematic way," Cohen told attendees when asked how many of the enrollees were previously uninsured, according to The National Journal.

On Wednesday, the Republican-led House backed a one-year delay in the penalty that individuals would have to pay for failing to sign up for health insurance, the 50th time Republicans have forced a vote to repeal, gut or change ObamaCare.

The vote was 250-160, with 27 Democrats joining Republicans on legislation to postpone the individual mandate under the law. The measure stands no chance in the Democratic-led Senate and the White House has threatened a veto.

The 4-year-old law requires U.S. citizens and legal residents to have qualifying health care coverage or face a tax penalty based on household income. The penalty would be phased in at 1 percent of taxable income this year, 2 percent in 2015 and 2.5 percent in 2016.

Meanwhile, in a virtual town hall meeting with Spanish-language media outlets on Thursday, President Obama disputed that his credibility had been undermined by the chaotic health care rollout and his failure to secure legal status for millions of Latinos in the U.S. illegally.

"The main point that I have for everybody watching right now is, you don't punish me by not signing up for health care," Obama said. "You're punishing yourself or your family if in fact there's affordable health care to be had."

Obama's push to boost enrollment comes as the end-of-March deadline to enroll is rapidly approaching — and with it, renewed concerns that if the Obama administration misses its target, the insurance pool could become unsustainable and undermine the broader law's success.

So amid all this chaos the
quote:
"The main point that [Obama has]for everybody watching right now is, you don't punish me by not signing up for health care"
That's it Barry, THAT'S what those silly citizens are trying to do, they're trying to PUNISH YOU! THAT'S THE REASON THEY HAVEN'T SIGNED UP! [Roll Eyes]
Any problems with people signing up with the law is just a way to attack Obama. It doesn't actually represent any real problems with the exchanges, cost, coverage, desirability, medicaid recovery, IPAB, etc, etc.

I'd say this qualifies as almost as serious of a mental disorder as Putin is displaying, though maybe a different kind. Obama and the democrats are lashing out at anyone who is having trouble with this law.

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G3
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quote:
Originally posted by Seneca:

quote:
"The main point that [Obama has]for everybody watching right now is, you don't punish me by not signing up for health care"
That's it Barry, THAT'S what those silly citizens are trying to do, they're trying to PUNISH YOU! THAT'S THE REASON THEY HAVEN'T SIGNED UP! [Roll Eyes]

What a incredible display of narcissism. All about you Barry, it's always all about you.
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scifibum
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You guys are kidding yourselves if you don't think a lot of the opposition to the ACA has been motivated by a desire to see Obama fail.
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G3
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No, it's racism. I think you're supposed to call us racists. That's the approved meme.
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scifibum
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That's pretty hypocritical, considering most of your material is copied and pasted from the right wing blogosphere.
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Seneca
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So the numbers reported from the administration are really just the "right wing blogosphere?"

Obama is a member of the "right wing blogosphere?"

[Confused]

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scifibum
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Seneca, you're demonstrating poor reading comprehension. G3 implied that I only argue from "approved memes". I said most of his material comes from the right wing blogosphere - in other words, he has a pattern of doing what he's wrongly accusing me of doing (I do not, in fact, get my opinions from left wing sources, which I understand may be hard for G3 to imagine).

I did not say that EVERY copy and paste comes from there. I did not say that this one does.

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Seneca
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How instead of attacking G3's supposed "favorite sources" you respond to this quote from Obama:

quote:
"The main point that I have for everybody watching right now is, you don't punish me by not signing up for health care," Obama said. "You're punishing yourself or your family if in fact there's affordable health care to be had."

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NobleHunter
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It sounds like he wants people to evaluate the law on its merits rather than pure partisan reflex.
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G3
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I am talking about the memes used to oppose Obamacare. If you believe it's out of a desire to see some kind of personal failure in Barry, then you're deluded.
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G3
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quote:
Originally posted by NobleHunter:
It sounds like he wants people to evaluate the law on its merits rather than pure partisan reflex.

Didn't read down that far ...

See? If you oppose it, it's pure partisan reflex. Or maybe it's racism. One of the two. Can't be anything else.

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NobleHunter
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No. Please try and respond to what I'm actually saying.

ETA: Removed unnecessary snark.

[ March 07, 2014, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: NobleHunter ]

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Seneca
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Obama was saying the "MAIN point," amid all the genuine problems that his own administration admit are occurring is that people who aren't signing up are doing it to punish him...
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D.W.
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He's wrong that it was about him. He has a legitimate reason to try to convince people it's not worth trying to hurt his party. I don't think he's correct that the tactic is not valid.

Besides, he made sure people couldn't "hurt themselves" until after the election. Why shouldn't they stall at this point?

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NobleHunter
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Or he's just addressing one motivation among many. A movitation, mind you, that his political opponents have encouraged at every opportunity.
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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Besides, he made sure people couldn't "hurt themselves" until after the election. Why shouldn't they stall at this point?
Skipping needed medical care because you don't have sufficient coverage to afford it, which he\ was talking about, is not something that has been put off till after the election.
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D.W.
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Those who know they need coverage will get it. People living paycheck to paycheck do not (or cannot) afford to "insure" against potential illness / injuries.

They may not BE ABLE TO put it off till after the election if they get sick or are injured but they WILL gamble that this won't happen.

When you are strapped for cash insurance is an investment or not justifiable. It is not something you get "just incase". The reality of how people buy and use insurance is nowhere near the same for those writing the laws and those they need to sign up.

The only way to change this quirk of economics and human nature is to mandate insurance by law. Take the teeth out of that mandate and you are the same as grandma telling you, "You really should save more money for a rainy day." Good advice, that is most likely ignored.

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Seneca
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So in reality Obama just took the whole problem of uninsured going to the ER and getting free care that he was fake-complaining about and expanded it to be much worse by allowing people to wait to get sick then sign up for health insurance.

Then again it probably wasn't an accident. My guess is this is a very deliberate calculation designed to break the private insurance industry completely and try to push us to single payer, as the ACA's authors have publicly suggested.

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NobleHunter
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Well, private insurance is a ****ing awful way to provide healthcare.
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G3
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quote:
Originally posted by NobleHunter:
No. Please try and respond to what I'm actually saying.

I am. I am not trying to be snarky or anything, that really is the general response to opposing Obamacare.
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G3
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quote:
Originally posted by NobleHunter:
Well, private insurance is a ****ing awful way to provide healthcare.

Yeah, the only thing worse is public healthcare.
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D.W.
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quote:
So in reality Obama just took the whole problem of uninsured going to the ER and getting free care that he was fake-complaining about and expanded it to be much worse by allowing people to wait to get sick then sign up for health insurance.

Then again it probably wasn't an accident. My guess is this is a very deliberate calculation designed to break the private insurance industry completely and try to push us to single payer, as the ACA's authors have publicly suggested.

With how the implementation and penalty delays have been implemented I believe that is where we are trending. I'm not prepared to say this was the intent yet. I still hold idealism and political cowardice as likely as deliberate sabotage to the current industry.
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Seneca
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quote:
Originally posted by D.W.:
quote:
So in reality Obama just took the whole problem of uninsured going to the ER and getting free care that he was fake-complaining about and expanded it to be much worse by allowing people to wait to get sick then sign up for health insurance.

Then again it probably wasn't an accident. My guess is this is a very deliberate calculation designed to break the private insurance industry completely and try to push us to single payer, as the ACA's authors have publicly suggested.

With how the implementation and penalty delays have been implemented I believe that is where we are trending. I'm not prepared to say this was the intent yet. I still hold idealism and political cowardice as likely as deliberate sabotage to the current industry.
So you won't take Harry Reid at his word?
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NobleHunter
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G3, the general response is not my response. Please try and distinguish between the two.
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D.W.
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I take nobody at their word Seneca. What in particular are you referring to?
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Seneca
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http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/08/10/sen-harry-reid-obamacare-absolutely-a-step-toward-a-single-payer-system/
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D.W.
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Are you asking me if I think he speaks for all those who pushed for and helped implement ACA? No, I don’t' think he does. I'm actually for a single payer system. I just don't know if I believe that intentionally orchestrating chaos was the path mapped out to achieve it.

I believe it's possible, I'm just not convinced yet.

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