Ornery.org
  Front Page   |   About Ornery.org   |   World Watch   |   Guest Essays   |   Contact Us

The Ornery American Forum Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Woz says much of the Jobs movie was lies (Page 1)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   
Author Topic: Woz says much of the Jobs movie was lies
LetterRip
Member
Member # 310

 - posted      Profile for LetterRip   Email LetterRip   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Interesting post by woz on google+, he basically states that the early history of Apple with relation to Jobs was completely inaccurate with Jobs nearly destroying the company and having almost nothing to do with its initial successes, and all sorts of personal information wrong.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/+CarmsPerez/posts/GnVTvQNgvpf

Posts: 8287 | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
OpsanusTau
Member
Member # 2350

 - posted      Profile for OpsanusTau   Email OpsanusTau   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Posthumous catfight!
Posts: 3791 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AI Wessex
Member
Member # 6653

 - posted      Profile for AI Wessex   Email AI Wessex   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I go way back as an Apple user - my first was an Apple IIe, and I had one of the first Mac II's in Ann Arbor. Almost from the first days Apple had a reputation for stealing great ideas from other places like Xerox PARC and not rewarding employees they drove nearly insane with demands. But Apple delivered, so we tended to accept that that was how it was done and lots of us tried pushing ourselves as hard, thinking that emulation would be rewarded with success. Needless to say, our clueless bosses thought they had lit the fire in our imaginations.

Jobs was seen as a brilliant thief who could steal your family jewels and you'd ignore it because he only took what he liked and left the rest. The Star system at PARC was the model for the Mac UI (also the Lisa), but they never saw a dime from it. Woz was the X factor who nobody quite understood. He was seen as something we hadn't seen before, a hippie geek (for which the only other and equally cryptic example at the time was Richard Stallman) who gave Jobs his most brilliant ideas and then wandered off to pick flowers or something.

Despite his questionable methods and ethics many of us admired Jobs immensely and hoped he would succeed, especially us old English Majors (most programmers at the time were Liberal Arts grads) after the Macintosh Superbowl commercial. The battle was on between the Mac UI and the MS-DOS command line. We never had enough documentation to make MS-DOS do what we wanted while Jobs brilliantly threw out the manual altogether. It took years for the industry to catch up and it was Unix (SUN) rather than the PC OS that kept up. Luckily I was then a UI researcher with a SUN workstation on my desk and could learn from both companies.

Apple paved the way for our company to believe that we also could change the world through software innovation, aka magic by most people. I was inspired back then by what Apple was doing in much the same way that people now are inspired by today's Apple magic. 30 years on they are still pulling the train for innovation, but it seems like everyone in the industry gets it now.

Credit where it's due.

[ January 20, 2014, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: AI Wessex ]

Posts: 8393 | Registered: Feb 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 99

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
30 years on they are still pulling the train for innovation...
You really think so?
Posts: 22935 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AI Wessex
Member
Member # 6653

 - posted      Profile for AI Wessex   Email AI Wessex   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
iPod, iPad, iPhone...

Like I said, the industry is now wide awake and innovation is happening in lots of places (Google - I can't believe I didn't think to mention them). What other companies have the same or greater pull on the market?

Posts: 8393 | Registered: Feb 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 99

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
iPod, iPad, iPhone...
Meh. That's design innovation, not technical innovation. And even the design was largely lifted from early '60s aesthetics.

quote:
What other companies have the same or greater pull on the market?
That's not proof of innovation. That's proof of marketing. Heck, the Jobs movie is a classic example of how Apple's marketers have done a great job of selling myth.
Posts: 22935 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AI Wessex
Member
Member # 6653

 - posted      Profile for AI Wessex   Email AI Wessex   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Market innovation is still innovation. Jobs wasn't an Engineer, more of a lotus-eating product design visionary and Stalinist diktator. He stole ideas from lots of places that never figured out how (or tried) to capitalize on them themselves. He knew how to mesmerize - the 1984 commercial hit like an atomic bomb - and got thousands of Engineers out of their seats and marching in the direction he pointed out and millions of people into the stores to get a Mac.

Edit: I just looked up the specs for the first version of the Mac [Smile] :
quote:
The Macintosh 128K (that was your RAM) screamed along at 8 MHz, featured two serial ports and could accommodate one 3.5-inch floppy disc. It ran the Mac OS 1.0, came with a 9-inch black-and-white monitor and sold for a cool $2,500 (the equivalent of $5,000 in today's dollars).


[ January 20, 2014, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: AI Wessex ]

Posts: 8393 | Registered: Feb 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Greg Davidson
Member
Member # 3377

 - posted      Profile for Greg Davidson   Email Greg Davidson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks for the link - I just watched the movie on the flight back from Israel
Posts: 4178 | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
KidTokyo
Member
Member # 6601

 - posted      Profile for KidTokyo   Email KidTokyo       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Design innovation is important. I'm hardly a fanboy of any one system. I have a Windows 7 PC, a macbook, ipad, Nokia Windows phone, and an acer laptop running laptop running Linux Lubuntu -- I consider all three (four? five?) systems to be excellent and capable. The Apple products have an extra something. Itunes irritations notwithstanding, they are a bit more human.

I had a macintosh SE from 1987 that I used until 1999. I wrote my first published story on it. It was followed by two windows PCs which worked just fine, no complaints, but, meh...I wasn't sad when they "died", in fact I was happy to move on. But when the SE croaked, I was actually upset. My macbook, recent victim of a beer spill, has provoked a similar sadness. I can own a PC for six years and be perfectly satisfied, and yet lose it in a heartbeat and not care.

All of these factions have both innovated and stolen. The myths of individualism lead us to overpraise our leaders. Apples attention to aesthetic details has raised the bar for user experience -- this is no less true because Jobs was a raging arrogant douche or because Apple ripped of little guys, which of course they did.

Posts: 2336 | Registered: Sep 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
LetterRip
Member
Member # 310

 - posted      Profile for LetterRip   Email LetterRip   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Jobs deserves credit for

1) His ability to hire good engineers
2) His marketing skill
3) His ability to recognize good designs

He played close to no role in the origination and design of the products that people associate with him. He had very litte in the way of actual innovation - he deserves some credit for OS X/NeXT; he deserves credit for the decision to use plastic for the Apple IIc case; and credit for typographic support on the original Macintosh. Other items associated with him were due almost exlusive to other individuals/groups (ie Raskin and the Macintosh; iPod and ITunes were from acquisitions).

He nearly bankrupted Apple the first time he was there; and also nearly bankrupted NeXT. In the first case he was prevented from doing what he wanted. In the second case they were saved at the last minute via apples buyout.

Where his key skills were, were marketing and business negotiations, and recognizing the good inventions and ideas of others. His big coup was to negotiate the settlement with Microsoft which saved Apple from bankruptcy while keeping the antitrust lawyers away from MIcrosofts door. Also rebasing Apple OS to NeXT/OS X was an important decision.

The acquisition of the companies who desigend the iPod form factor and the iPod OS were important, but they were not an 'innovation'.

I really hate that as a culture we feel a need to attribute inventiveness, innovativeness, and creativity to individuals who are skilled businessmen and have an eye for recognizing the talents of others. Why can't we simply recognize the talents that they have, and not give them credit for the talents and accomplishments of others.

[ January 20, 2014, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: LetterRip ]

Posts: 8287 | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AI Wessex
Member
Member # 6653

 - posted      Profile for AI Wessex   Email AI Wessex   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If it were that simple nobody would receive recognition as the creator for the ideas that they incorporated from others, but bear in mind that when you hire someone in a creative or technical field you're hiring them to perform exactly that role for you. It's not like Jobs was the body double for any one (or many) Engineers. Unless somebody wants to claim that he didn't lead/drive Apple toward their successes, let's not diminish his contribution.

BTW, my biggest regret in all the years I've been buying computers and other gizmos is that I had a chance to buy a NeXT cube on the day it came out and couldn't come up with the $4,000 it cost. Somehow I ended up with a complete set of manuals that is still sitting in a box in my garage along with my Apple Pascal manual and other ancient tomes.

Posts: 8393 | Registered: Feb 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JoshuaD
Member
Member # 1420

 - posted      Profile for JoshuaD   Email JoshuaD   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think it's worth noting that apple is the bad guy. Their products may be very good in terms of usability (a point I'd argue) but they are the worst in terms of user freedom.

I think Richard Stallman is a nut, but he's the good kind of nut, and while his ideas are a little fanatical, they point us in the right direction.

Steve Jobs points us in the exact other direction, and I think that's a big failing.

Posts: 3742 | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
KidTokyo
Member
Member # 6601

 - posted      Profile for KidTokyo   Email KidTokyo       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I can't say that Apple is worse in terms of user freedom.

It is, I agree, more difficult to customize or modify their products, but, compensatorily, I am far less in need of doing so.

[ January 20, 2014, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: KidTokyo ]

Posts: 2336 | Registered: Sep 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AI Wessex
Member
Member # 6653

 - posted      Profile for AI Wessex   Email AI Wessex   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That was a design principle. I remember that the Mac II didn't have a command line. You had to buy their developer toolkit in order to get that, and it had constraints to keep you from some system (root) level services. I have a MacBook Pro now and still see some limitations in what I can do using the Terminal app.

We called Microsoft the Evil Empire, but couldn't really use the Mac for full-blown app development. We resented being relegated to mere mortal users...

Posts: 8393 | Registered: Feb 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
KidTokyo
Member
Member # 6601

 - posted      Profile for KidTokyo   Email KidTokyo       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, I wouldn't call programmers "users"....
Posts: 2336 | Registered: Sep 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AI Wessex
Member
Member # 6653

 - posted      Profile for AI Wessex   Email AI Wessex   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I meant to use that word. We had to program the Mac with a mouse because there was no command line. The editors were pretty crappy, too. As a Unix jock I resented being demoted to from using all 10 fingers to a one-button mouse graphical interface.
Posts: 8393 | Registered: Feb 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
KidTokyo
Member
Member # 6601

 - posted      Profile for KidTokyo   Email KidTokyo       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I can see how that would be immensely irritating. Luckily, you can go to town with the terminal nowadays, though I hardly do it myself. In Linux, I use it sometimes, usually because I'm trying to run something that will make it more Mac-like. [Smile]

I'm not a programmer, developer, etc., so there is a whole territory of interfacing I'm not really involved in. I just use computers for lawyering, writing, and artsy fartsy stuff.

Posts: 2336 | Registered: Sep 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JoshuaD
Member
Member # 1420

 - posted      Profile for JoshuaD   Email JoshuaD   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
AI: I didn't know you were a programmer. I wonder how that passed by me. Is that the field you work in?
Posts: 3742 | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JoshuaD
Member
Member # 1420

 - posted      Profile for JoshuaD   Email JoshuaD   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by KidTokyo:
I can't say that Apple is worse in terms of user freedom.

It is, I agree, more difficult to customize or modify their products, but, compensatorily, I am far less in need of doing so.

I'm using the word in the way that Stallman uses it: What is Free Software?.

I am also talking about the DRM schemes that iTunes uses.

In general, apples stuff locks you into a jail. It's a really comfortable, stylish, and easy to use jail, but it's definitely got strong walls and does not want you to go anywhere beyond the designated areas (or to have any control at all over how the jail is structured).

Microsoft gets the big heat for this, and I don't think its justified. Relatively, Apple is a much bigger offender.

Posts: 3742 | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
KidTokyo
Member
Member # 6601

 - posted      Profile for KidTokyo   Email KidTokyo       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Josh,

Everyone has there own experience, and I won't say you're wrong per se, but that hasn't been my experience at all. I've tried Linux for years now and, while I like it as a means to get some basic things done on old hardware, it's much more of a "prison" as far as I'm concerned as there is a great deal of software which either doesn't run on it, or runs on it only with a workaround (like WINE) or a bunch of futzing which may or may not entirely work. And the Ubuntu equivalents of the usual software are, let's be honest, mostly second-rate.

Yeah, the itunes store is an ass-pain sometimes. Luckily, I use eMusic, which is DRM free and downloads automatically into itunes, and from there, to whatever portable I choose. Basically, I use itunes for ripping, playing, importing from eMusic. It has given me no problems at all over the years.

In fact, my mac experience is that I've been able to run absolutely any kind of software I want, with very little hassle. I don't get the hyperbole about being "locked in" or jailed. It's completely untrue. I can only imagine that people who say this haven't actually used a Mac much in the last decade. You don't *have* to use itunes at all, and certainly not for buying music.

I do photo editing -- no problem interfacing with a 12 year old pro-grade digital camera.

I compose music -- Garage Band beats the pants off off anything in Ubuntu Studio I've tried.

I have four different office suits and word processors on it, all run smoothly.

Itunes is my least favorite part of Apple, but I still run on it my PC because it's a vast improvement over Windows Media.

Posts: 2336 | Registered: Sep 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AI Wessex
Member
Member # 6653

 - posted      Profile for AI Wessex   Email AI Wessex   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Kid, I mean no disrespect by saying this, but you're a user. Think of me and a couple of others here as your suppliers [Smile] .

As a user I want the most useful tool. Until a few years ago the Mac was for dandies and artists, but now is the best all-around machine. As a supplier (of system software) I want the most powerful tool, which is Linux.

Posts: 8393 | Registered: Feb 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 99

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I dunno, Al. Why do you think Linux is a more powerful tool for programmers? For me, work-wise, it's all about the IDEs; the OS is generally a much lower priority.
Posts: 22935 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AI Wessex
Member
Member # 6653

 - posted      Profile for AI Wessex   Email AI Wessex   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That's the thing. Around here nobody uses an IDE. We're developing an MPP database engine and tools. We sit right on the OS and close to the metal. All the networking and IO is proprietary, and our optimizer (which I co-developed) translates plan trees into C++ that is compiled and distributed across the cluster. I use Emacs to edit and compile; others use VI and the command line.

(BTW, it's been so long since I used an IDE that I misread that as "it's all about IED's", which frankly gave me a bit of a jolt.)

Posts: 8393 | Registered: Feb 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 99

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
I use Emacs to edit and compile; others use VI and the command line.
Oh, God, I'm sorry. [Smile]
Posts: 22935 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
KidTokyo
Member
Member # 6601

 - posted      Profile for KidTokyo   Email KidTokyo       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Al,

I agree completely, and that was the distinction I was trying to make myself. [Smile]

Also, I was responding to Josh, who seemed to be talking about user experience.

I'm sure Linux is great for programmers and customizers -- I hear this from all sides, scientists and many professional artists as well. Doesn't Peter Jackson's effects studio use it? I've heard it's the industry standard for CGI (though apparently most anime is done on software that runs on windows).

Most of the advantages of Linux involve programmer needs I only vaguely understand. For me, "better than Vista on an old laptop" is enough.

Posts: 2336 | Registered: Sep 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AI Wessex
Member
Member # 6653

 - posted      Profile for AI Wessex   Email AI Wessex   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Right, understood [Smile] , but I couldn't resist. Linux or other Unix-like OS's have been the only real base on which to build MPP or high-performance distributed systems for the past 8-10 years. Now that Hadoop is beginning to mature as a distributed environment for the "big data" market, the arrow is beginning to swing in that direction. Not to mention that Hadoop is named after a stuffed elephant (a worthy name successor to Yahoo and Google) and has tools with names like flume, oozie, sqoop, hive, pig and zookeeper. Who could resist?
Posts: 8393 | Registered: Feb 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
RedVW on a Laptop
Member
Member # 615

 - posted      Profile for RedVW on a Laptop   Email RedVW on a Laptop   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If your still using emacs is it actually worth it?
Posts: 507 | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AI Wessex
Member
Member # 6653

 - posted      Profile for AI Wessex   Email AI Wessex   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Old habits. I've been using it for about 30 years and still think it is the best C++ context editing/compiling tool out there. It integrates with GCC(G++), shells, email and pretty much any damn thing else you want. I've got hundreds of custom elisp macros and special keys that I've written or acquired that I wouldn't want to leave behind, too. XEmacs gives Emacs that nice GUI shine, so I also consider that it is a real IDE (eh, Tom?).

History trivia. I think I started with Gosling Emacs, which was the first Emacs running on Unix. James Gosling (author of Java and NeWS (best windowing system ever)), adapted it from a DEC OS before Stallman did, but Stallman did a complete rewrite when he brought his version over.

There was a lot of hot debate back then among Unix hackers (a term of respect at that time meaning you could write unreadable AWK or perl scripts that others liked and envied) over whether VI or Emacs was the better editor. Stallman settled the issue by releasing a set of Emacs macros that completely emulated VI. In other words, you could implement VI in Emacs, but not the other way 'round. Unix geeks (a redundant phrase) prostrated themselves in awe and the argument was settled.

There's a reason that most chefs use raw ingredients. There's a reason a lot of programmers still use Emacs. If you want, I can write a lisp macro that will connect the dots for you [Wink] .

If that doesn't scare you enough, I was then working for a CAD/CAM company designing and documenting GUI's and presentation graphics tools for production programmers and fellow research Engineers. *Any* kind of graphical representation on a suitable device (printer or monitor/display) was hot, but these folks wanted their documents to look like the real thing. In other words, they wanted pictures of machine parts neatly organized in their docs as if they were part of a published book. Others wanted their complicated mathematical formulas to look like they do in professional journals, which then were typeset by hand. This was before WYSIWYG tools came out (FrameMaker was the first for Unix), so I did a lot of technical writing using TeX and later LaTex (I didn't wash the hand that shook Knuth's hand for about a week). If you don't know what TeX/LaTeX are, think about writing a book or article using a programming language that produced the book rather than simply editing the text with manual line and page breaks and without modern MS-Word style font and justification controls.

To show off how powerful those tools were, Knuth wrote a 10 page (approx) article entitled Literate Programming (I think) where he demonstrated a self-documented Pascal program that compiled itself and ran *and* produced a journal quality article about itself at the same time. That may have been his shark jumping-like undoing, as someone responded by writing the same program in 2 or 3 lines of AWK and attached a comment that said something like "Figure it out for yourself".

Reminds me of what it felt like to be full of hubris, and still hungry.

That was more than you asked for, but I hope it answered your question [Wink] .

Posts: 8393 | Registered: Feb 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 99

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Unix geeks (a redundant phrase) prostrated themselves in awe and the argument was settled.
You Stallman fanboy. [Smile] My recollection of that era is that that's around the time VI stalwarts started referring to Emacs -- tongue-in-cheek, of course -- as a decent operating system in need of a good text editor.

In reality, both Emacs and VI are terrible. The people who think otherwise are basically suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. Because here's the thing: all good interfaces are discoverable without resorting to help files.

quote:
XEmacs gives Emacs that nice GUI shine, so I also consider that it is a real IDE.
To me, the essence of a "real" IDE is code completion and context highlighting/underlining. If I have to type an entire method name -- or do a text search to find a dependency -- my IDE isn't doing its job.
Posts: 22935 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AI Wessex
Member
Member # 6653

 - posted      Profile for AI Wessex   Email AI Wessex   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Obviously, there is some age-relatedness to our preferences. When I was young some of my elder relatives were WWI veterans who told me in no uncertain terms how wars were *meant* to be fought and that WWII was an aberration. They also didn't get the fascination with or see the need for color TV. Bah humbug to you, sir!
Posts: 8393 | Registered: Feb 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AI Wessex
Member
Member # 6653

 - posted      Profile for AI Wessex   Email AI Wessex   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"To me, the essence of a "real" IDE is code completion and context highlighting/underlining. If I have to type an entire method name -- or do a text search to find a dependency -- my IDE isn't doing its job."

Ah, another memory tickle. Someone (memory suggests from Indiana U) wrote C++ context macros that did exactly that. That project died when I think the author went to Sabre or Lucent to work on their IDE tools. Sabre was the first (and only) IDE with an incremental C++ interpreter (circa 1990) that executed on every statement or block terminator. That died, too, and I think the reason is that real programmers thought it was to programming what drinking Schmaltz beer in a fern bar was to quaffing a Pabst in a bowling alley. Brew pubs and Bach came to our consciousness later.

Posts: 8393 | Registered: Feb 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 99

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
*grin* Have you seen Scratch? Someday we're all going to be replaced by animated avatars that just ask users what they want their data to do. [Smile]
Posts: 22935 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AI Wessex
Member
Member # 6653

 - posted      Profile for AI Wessex   Email AI Wessex   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I haven't seen it, but I won't because I'm trying to singlehandedly hold back the tide of computer technology progress by refusing to acknowledge some of it. As I mentioned, I was a GUI/graphics researcher in the 1980's and did some cool stuff, but I'd give up my one-button mouse now way before I'd sacrifice my left pinky that presses the shift key.
Posts: 8393 | Registered: Feb 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
OpsanusTau
Member
Member # 2350

 - posted      Profile for OpsanusTau   Email OpsanusTau   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I use mostly apple products - this is not by my own choice, the computer scientist in the household is responsible for these things. (I did get an android phone and I'm currently really grumpy because it can't run the only app I care about - I'm seriously considering a new phone only for the purpose of running this app.)

Anyways I have written all my papers in LaTeX for years and I think it's amazing, I use BibTeX to manage all my citations, etc (and of course so does Dr Mr Tau) but for whatever reason he prefers using apple machines for the work and research he does at home. (I wouldn't swear to it, but I think there are mostly Linux machines at the office.)

I'm not sure what the point of this comment is - maybe just that it has always seemed to me that which kind of tool is "better" depends strongly on what kind of work you're trying to do and also what kind of tool you're used to.

Posts: 3791 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 99

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
What is the only app you care about? [Smile]
Posts: 22935 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
OpsanusTau
Member
Member # 2350

 - posted      Profile for OpsanusTau   Email OpsanusTau   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It's for work, it's a pharmacy thing.
It's pretty new, and I have it on my ipad, which is just sort of inconvenient in that it doesn't fit in my pocket. They just came out with an android version and I was deeply annoyed that it's not backward-compatible with the version of android my phone has to use. I have already sent a grumpy email asking that they fix this, since to my (admittedly inexpert) eye there is nothing the app is doing that requires the fancy newer OS.
I considered rooting the phone (is that what we call it? [Wink] ) - of course it would be more accurate to say that I considered having the Dr Mr Tau do it since that's above my pay grade. But apparently the 4.x OS is unstable on my phone and makes the camera not work, and I like the camera (and also use it for work - helloooo, gross pictures).

Honestly I would just get a new phone except that I have a slider keyboard and I really like it. Don't make fun of me, okay? I text A LOT and the slider keyboard improved my life markedly. Here is how many phones are available to me that run a current version of android AND have a slider keyboard: zero.

Posts: 3791 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
LetterRip
Member
Member # 310

 - posted      Profile for LetterRip   Email LetterRip   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
TomD,

'good interface' has different meanings.

A discoverable interface can likely be less productive than one that requires training/reading the manual.

Vi and Emacs are very productive for those properly trained to use them, much more so than many IDE interfaces designed to be 'discoverable'.

That said, while I do quite a bit of quick hacks in Vim/Notepad. I do like XCode for C development (love the LLVM/Clang integration) and JetBrains for Java/Android development. I tend to use IDLE/Vim for python, though recently am starting to use the iPython stack (iPython, python notebook, NumPy, SciPy, NLTK, panda, scikit learn) since I'm doing machine learning stuff.

Never could 'get into' emacs - though mostly just haven't invested time in it.

Posts: 8287 | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
scifibum
Member
Member # 945

 - posted      Profile for scifibum   Email scifibum   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
I text A LOT and the slider keyboard improved my life markedly. Here is how many phones are available to me that run a current version of android AND have a slider keyboard: zero.
I was pretty attached to the slide-out keyboard too, but I've found that Swype and similar interfaces are pretty much just as fast, after adjustment. If you can stick with your old phone then that's probably better for you while it lasts, but if you have to go with a new phone and a newer version of Android, it might not be too bad in the long run.
Posts: 6847 | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 99

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I've actually been pleasantly surprised by the quality of voice recognition. I haven't had to fully type a text in almost four months.
Posts: 22935 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AI Wessex
Member
Member # 6653

 - posted      Profile for AI Wessex   Email AI Wessex   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Lands eat parts and does eat parts and little lambs eat ivy. A kick eat icy to, wouldn't you?

So Seth the Swype.

Posts: 8393 | Registered: Feb 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
UBB Code™ Images not permitted.
Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Ornery.org Front Page

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.1