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Author Topic: Mentally ill murdering 12 year olds
LetterRip
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How do we deal with children who attempt to commit murder at this age.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/12-year-olds-stab-friend-slender-man/story?id=23979903

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JoshuaD
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With lots of love and patience. They're 12. They're not lost yet.
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scifibum
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I'm seriously annoyed with the media's focus on this "Slender Man" thing. That particular article is fair in how it's discussed, but it doesn't really need to be discussed - the internet meme is not what is wrong, it's not the cause and doesn't point to the solution.

[ June 03, 2014, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: scifibum ]

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MattP
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Seriously.
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TomDavidson
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They're from Waukesha. That is in itself almost enough explanation.
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Jack Squat
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quote:
Still, Kenneth Lanning, a former FBI agent who worked in its behavioral science unit for violent crime, said the meme alone is not to blame any more than superman was to blame in the 1950s for children jumping off their roofs.

“If these girls get so enmeshed in the fantasy of Slender Man, there’s some kind of a problem," he said. "It may have lowered their inhibition, but that's not what caused this... Hundreds or thousands of children talk about, tweet, text message about Slender Man, but ...they've never killed anybody."

If it lowered inhibitions, it may very well be a cause in this case. If hundreds of thousands of kids are talking and tweeting about it, it's almost inevitable that some child's going to be dumb enough to try it. Just as the sexual revolution created an environment where the HIV epidemic was inevitable, putting hundreds of thousands of kids on twitter and facebook is going to inevitably create new motives for murder and suicide.
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LetterRip
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Jack,

the presence of a knife in the home may have 'lowered inhibition'. If they took a sip of alcohol it may have 'lowered inhibition'.

These would not be causative.

They could have decided they wanted to be vampires or werewolves, or soldiers or police officers, or knights or witches or wizards, etc.

Having a fantasy involving death, doesn't make the source of the fantasy material responsible.

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Seneca
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A lot of it is the problem kids are raised these days. They are given unrealistic expectations, told that they are all special and wonderful no matter how they behave, they experience instant gratification and placation from their parents in place of 'tough love,' they are over-saturated with entertainment toys, etc.
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TomDavidson
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Which is of course why murders and attempted murders by children are at a 30 year low right now: we've stopped gratifying our kids.
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Wayward Son
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I should think that Seneca will find that news quite gratifying. [Smile]
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Jack Squat
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
Which is of course why murders and attempted murders by children are at a 30 year low right now: we've stopped gratifying our kids.

Is this true?
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Jack Squat
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http://www.nbcnews.com/health/kids-health/youth-murder-rates-30-year-low-cdc-reports-f6C10604586

Apparently Tom is right.

On the other hand, murder of children is growing:
http://www.wnd.com/2000/03/1958/

And firearms seem to be the lowest factor in that equation. http://www.wnd.com/2000/03/1958/

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TomDavidson
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Jack, your links are questionable. The first addresses the homicide and violent crime rate committed against minors, not by minors; the second does the same, but is from fourteen years ago.

This link may be more pertinent, although it's really only accurate through 2010: http://www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/beh5.asp

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Pete at Home
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Tom, from jack's first link:

"Murder rates for children, teens and young adults hit a 30-year-low in 2010"

That's what you said.

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TomDavidson
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If you read on, you'll see that Jack's first link is tracking the incidence of children being murdered, not children murdering. It doesn't matter too much, since both values are down, but I just wanted to address that in case somebody who foolishly thinks kids today are more violent than they were when I was a teenager, noticed the discrepancy, and wanted to argue the point.
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TomDavidson
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Also, Pete, please stop pretending that you aren't Jack. It's okay. We'll understand. [Smile]

Tom: Please see your email. -OrneryMod

[ June 05, 2014, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: OrneryMod ]

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Seneca
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The murder rate isn't growing but the amount of children with mental illness is, which is what I was obviously referring to. These aren't accidental type deaths, and you don't see simple rage as a motivator.
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Jack Squat
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
If you read on, you'll see that Jack's first link is tracking the incidence of children being murdered, not children murdering. It doesn't matter too much, since both values are down, but I just wanted to address that in case somebody who foolishly thinks kids today are more violent than they were when I was a teenager, noticed the discrepancy, and wanted to argue the point.

Does he always get grumpy and nitpicky when people he doesn't like agree with him?
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack Squat:
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
If you read on, you'll see that Jack's first link is tracking the incidence of children being murdered, not children murdering. It doesn't matter too much, since both values are down, but I just wanted to address that in case somebody who foolishly thinks kids today are more violent than they were when I was a teenager, noticed the discrepancy, and wanted to argue the point.

Does he always get grumpy and nitpicky when people he doesn't like agree with him?
No. Most of the time, but not always. Often he responds by accusing you of something random. It's like guys who don't like to be hugged.
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Jack Squat
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack Squat:
http://www.nbcnews.com/health/kids-health/youth-murder-rates-30-year-low-cdc-reports-f6C10604586

Apparently Tom is right.

On the other hand, murder of children is growing:
http://www.wnd.com/2000/03/1958/

And firearms seem to be the lowest factor in that equation. http://www.wnd.com/2000/03/1958/

My point in the first article was the sentence about children committing fewer murders. That's the article I found by search.

My point with the 2nd article, and my remark about the reverse, the killing of children by adults, was that Seneca is doubly wrong. Children are killing less, and they are also being treated worse, rather than coddled as Seneca suggested.

I'm sorry if my agreeing with you makes you uncomfortable, Tom. [Razz]

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TomDavidson
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It's not that it makes me uncomfortable, Pete. It's that I didn't want certain people using the flawed data in those links to argue against the point.

Tom: Please see your email. -OrneryMod

[ June 05, 2014, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: OrneryMod ]

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AI Wessex
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? Why would that invoke the nanny hammer?
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