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Author Topic: Obama admin. negotiates with terrorists
Seriati
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Iraq was a war that we needed to fight, losing the peace was a choice that we've made that undermines any valid determination of whether it was worth the cost. I reject the implication that it was fought for oil barrels which makes that value argument pointless.

Even still, your response says one thing and then argues the opposite. It's clear that you don't really accept that soldiers' deaths are worth the objectives. Which means your analysis of the worth of a trade is less meaningfull.

Since you seem to think we can only be parsing this as economic transaction, how many prisoners would have been too many to trade for Bergdahl?

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Seneca
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quote:
You should stop as you drive to your conclusions to pick up a few facts along the way. That way when you get there you can show the evidence. So far you've passed bad information and conjecture as if they were facts and I doubt many are persuaded.
Oh please, the indications are clear. He walked away! And that kind of determination should be, and probably was, made before any kind of rescue operation was considered.
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Greg Davidson
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What strikes me about this "controversy", as with the last 20+ Republican-generated controversies, is that the issue has never previously been raised to such a degree, and once a Republican is President will never again be raised.

Or maybe Seriati and Seneca can propose a new policy that they will support under Republican as well as Democratic Administrations. Something like the policy that we won't engage in time-critical prisoner exchange negotiations unless we have proven in military court that our soldier is innocent of any serious crimes, and we will perform an assessment of his military value and only make an exchange if our soldier has the same combat value as those being released.

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AI Wessex
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Of course the soldier would be entitled to testify on his own behalf, or it wouldn't be a fair trial.
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Seneca
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quote:
Originally posted by Greg Davidson:
What strikes me about this "controversy", as with the last 20+ Republican-generated controversies, is that the issue has never previously been raised to such a degree, and once a Republican is President will never again be raised.

Or maybe Seriati and Seneca can propose a new policy that they will support under Republican as well as Democratic Administrations. Something like the policy that we won't engage in time-critical prisoner exchange negotiations unless we have proven in military court that our soldier is innocent of any serious crimes, and we will perform an assessment of his military value and only make an exchange if our soldier has the same combat value as those being released.

The point is that for the only POW of this entire war, things are a bit unique. First off, we aren't facing a traditional war with a conventional government that we can exchange POWs with. Second, the aspect of terrorism is unique and changes things. Third, there are strong indications that this man deserted, he may even in fact have colluded to be traded back to the US to help free those 5 terrorists.

There are reports that while in captivity he trained with his "captors," taught them skills, changed his name, converted to Islam, etc.

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AI Wessex
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quote:
There are reports that while in captivity he trained with his "captors," taught them skills, changed his name, converted to Islam, etc.
I know you won't be able to back up that statement, but please give it a try. This time don't use blog or right-wing newsy talking points styled as hard news that don't say what you claim they say. With you the phrase "there are reports" more likely means you heard something that reinforced what you have already decided must be true and are using it to prove that what you have already decided must be true.
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Seneca
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quote:
U.S. Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl at one point during his captivity converted to Islam, fraternized openly with his captors and declared himself a "mujahid," or warrior for Islam, according to secret documents prepared on the basis of a purported eyewitness account and obtained by Fox News.

The reports indicate that Bergdahl's relations with his Haqqani captors morphed over time, from periods of hostility, where he was treated very much like a hostage, to periods where, as one source told Fox News, "he became much more of an accepted fellow" than is popularly understood. He even reportedly was allowed to carry a gun at times.

The documents show that Bergdahl at one point escaped his captors for five days and was kept, upon his re-capture, in a metal cage, like an animal. In addition, the reports detail discussions of prisoner swaps and other attempts at a negotiated resolution to the case that appear to have commenced as early as the fall of 2009.

The reports are rich in on-the-ground detail -- including the names and locations of the Haqqani commanders who ran the 200-man rotation used to guard the Idaho native -- and present the most detailed view yet of what Bergdahl's life over the past five years has been like. These real-time dispatches were generated by the Eclipse Group, a shadowy private firm of former intelligence officers and operatives that has subcontracted with the Defense Department and prominent corporations to deliver granular intelligence on terrorist activities and other security-related topics, often from challenging environments in far-flung corners of the globe.

The group is run by Duane R. ("Dewey") Clarridge, a former senior operations officer for the Central Intelligence Agency in the 1980s best known for having been indicted for lying to Congress about his role in the tangled set of events that became known as the Iran-Contra scandal. He was pardoned by the first President Bush in December 1992 while on trial.

Clarridge counts a number of achievements in his spy career as well, including a prominent role in the establishment of a national counterrorism center at CIA, a move widely copied around the world by foreign intelligence agencies. A New York Times profile of Clarridge published in January 2011 disclosed the contractual relationship Eclipse had with the Pentagon, through subcontractors, and reported further that Clarridge's activities had included efforts to help find Bergdahl.

Clarridge told Fox News his group enjoyed a subcontract through the assistant Secretary of Defense for Special Operations and Low-Intensity Conflict from November 2009 through May 31, 2010, and that after the contract was terminated, he invested some $50,000 of his own money to maintain the elaborate network of informants and handlers that had yielded such detailed accounts of Bergdahl's status.

Clarridge further told Fox News that by the end of 2010, he had furnished at least 13 of these detailed SITREPs, or situation reports, that his network generated about Bergdahl to Brig. Gen. Robert P. Ashley Jr., who in April 2010 was named director of intelligence, at the J-2 level, at U.S. Central Command, or CENTCOM, headquartered at MacDill Air Force Base in Florida.

Clarridge said Eclipse SITREP # 3023, dated Aug. 23, 2012 -- in which a member of the Haqqani network, said to be close to Bergdahl's captors, reported that the American prisoner had declared himself a "mujahid" -- was among the reports provided to Ashley.

The latter is now commanding general at the U.S. Army Intelligence Center of Excellence and Fort Huachuca, where a message left with the public affairs office was not immediately returned.

The documents obtained by Fox News show that Eclipse developed and transmitted numerous status reports on the whereabouts of the errant American soldier, spanning a period from October 2009, roughly three months after Bergdahl reportedly walked off his base in Afghanistan and fell into custody of the Haqqani network, up through August 2012.

At one point -- in late June 2010, after Bergdahl succeeded in one of his escape attempts -- the Haqqani commanders constructed a special metal cage for him, and confined him to it. At other points, however, Bergdahl was reported to be happily playing soccer with the Haqqani fighters, taking part in AK-47 target practice and being permitted to carry a firearm of his own, laughing frequently and proclaiming "Salaam," the Arabic word for "peace."

Reached by telephone, retired U.S. Marine Corps Gen. James N. Mattis, a 45-year service veteran who served as CENTCOM commander from August 2010 to August 2012, told Fox News he may have received bits and pieces of the intelligence generated by Eclipse, but said Ashley, with whom he maintained a close working relationship, had not forwarded on to him the specific SITREPs cited by Fox News.

Mattis was also adamant that no one at CENTCOM or within the broader U.S. military or intelligence community -- despite intensive investigation of such allegations -- ever learned of anything to suggest Bergdahl had evolved into an active collaborator with the Haqqani network or the Taliban. "We were always looking for actionable intelligence," Mattis said. "It wasn't just the IC [intelligence community]. We had tactical units that were involved in the fight. We had SIGINT. Any collaborators who were on the other side and who came over to our side. We kept an eye on this. ... There was never any evidence of collaboration."

Fox News reported on Monday that Bergdahl was the subject of a "major classified file" prepared by the U.S. intelligence community, and that many members of that community harbored concerns that Bergdahl, during his period of captivity, may have engaged in collaboration with the enemy.

Experts consulted by Fox News said that SITREP # 3023 presents a picture of an American captive who, if not an active collaborator, may have succumbed to Stockholm Syndrome -- the dynamic by which hostages can become enamored of their captors and join their cause -- or simply feigned allegiance in order to survive. The report cited a source new to Eclipse -- a member of the Haqqani network said to be close to Mullah Sangeen, the Haqqani commander charged at all points over the last five years with operational custody and control of Bergdahl -- whose trustworthiness had not been fully vetted by the group. However, the report stated, the informant "does have plausible access to the information reported below, and claims to have seen Bergdahl personally in Shawal," in North Waziristan.

"In the early stages Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl's captivity," the report states, "he was held at Palasin, Naurak, FATA [Federally Administered Tribal Areas], under the control of Mullah Sangeen and under the direct supervision of Haji Mursaleem, Sangeen's father. Conditions and locality changed after Mursaleem died [in September 2010], and Bergdahl was kept under tight guard after his attempted escape from his new place of detention in Shawal.

"As of August 2012," the report continues, "the person with responsibility for Bergdahl's captivity is Sangeen's brother, who has delegated the actual guarding of Bergdahl to Abubakr Asadkhel, a Burra Khel Wazir loyal to Sangeen, and whose sub-tribe lives in Shawal. Abubakr leads approximately 200 armed men from his tribe and operates from five bases (markaz) in Shawal. ... Abubakr's tribe is one of the prosperous branches of the Wazir and owns lots of trucks. Abubakr circulates his prisoner between schools in the area he controls, and his different insurgent bases."

Conditions for Bergdahl have greatly relaxed since the time of the escape. Bergdahl has converted to Islam and now describes himself as a mujahid. Bergdahl enjoys a modicum of freedom, and engages in target practice with the local mujahedeen, firing AK47s. Bergdahl is even allowed to carry a loaded gun on occasion. Bergdahl plays soccer with his guards and bounds around the pitch like a mad man. He appears to be well and happy, and has a noticeable habit of laughing frequently and saying 'Salaam' repeatedly.

At other points, the SITREPs depict a much nastier relationship between Bergdahl and his captors. In July 2010, Eclipse SITREPs based on confidential talks with Afghan Taliban commanders reported that "the original command structure for the responsibility of holding the captured soldier remains intact."

Overall responsibility for the captive is in the hands of Haqqani commander Sangeen, with Bandiwan, one of his deputies, responsible for making the detailed arrangements. There are two locations where the soldier is kept: one in Degan and the other in Shawal, North Waziristan. When in Degan he is kept in the compound of Eid Wale, a local Dawr who is close to Sangeen and is a chromite dealer. The other location is at Shawal. The [source] confirmed that the soldier had been missing for five days and when he was recovered, he was a little worse from wear (lack of food; a bit slimmer) but otherwise in good health.

But an earlier dispatch stated that after his re-capture, on or about June 22, 2010, Bergdahl was "in ill-health, and has been collapsing."A SITREP dated one week before Bergdahl's ill-fated escape attempt placed him in the Bazaar area of Miramshah, and noted that "he seemed not to be tightly controlled."

The Eclipse reports suggest that negotiations over Bergdahl's fate began within a few months after his capture. An October 2009 SITREP disclosed that Sirajuddin Haqqani, the Pashtun warlord controlling the broader network that bears his name, had reached out through Pakistani political contacts to propose a prisoner swap. A July 2010 SITREP stated that two months prior, in late May, "negotiations between the Haqqani and representatives of the missing US soldier collapsed." At that point, the report said, Bergdahl was moved to a more secure location.

The New York Times, in its 2011 profile of Clarridge, described his agents' dispatches as "an amalgam of fact, rumor, analysis and uncorroborated reports." The fabled ex-spook made the more than one dozen SITREPs that Eclipse prepared on the Bergdahl case -- all previously unpublished -- available to Fox News because he wanted to demonstrate, as he put it: "We know what we're talking about."


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TomDavidson
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quote:
The fabled ex-spook made the more than one dozen SITREPs that Eclipse prepared on the Bergdahl case -- all previously unpublished -- available to Fox News because he wanted to demonstrate, as he put it: "We know what we're talking about."
Wow, then that backfired on him.
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AI Wessex
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quote:
SITREP # 3023 presents a picture of an American captive who, if not an active collaborator, may have succumbed to Stockholm Syndrome
So if he succumbed to Stockholm Syndrome he was brainwashed into submission, not a defector or traitor, right? Is that how you treat tortured POWs who survived 5 years held captive, sometimes confined "in a metal cage, like an animal"?

This article, like almost all the ones you use to support most of your arguments, not only doesn't back up your position, and as in this case actually helps support the opposite case and creates more sympathy for Bergdahl.

[ June 13, 2014, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: AI Wessex ]

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Seneca
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quote:
So if he succumbed to Stockholm Syndrome he was brainwashed into submission, not a defector or traitor, right? Is that how you treat tortured POWs who survived 5 years held captive, sometimes confined "in a metal cage, like an animal"?

This article, like almost all the ones you use to support most of your arguments, not only doesn't back up your position, and as in this case actually helps support the opposite case and creates more sympathy for Bergdahl.

So Bergdahl made a bad choice by walking away and deserting. He probably didn't realize how bad things could get.

How many Vietnam Vets got worse treatment and didn't break?

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AI Wessex
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quote:
How many Vietnam Vets got worse treatment and didn't break?
Would you have wanted to leave behind any that did? And let me remind you that you're the one who doesn't want to refer back to past events to justify positions on current ones.
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Seneca
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quote:
Originally posted by AI Wessex:
quote:
How many Vietnam Vets got worse treatment and didn't break?
Would you have wanted to leave behind any that did? And let me remind you that you're the one who doesn't want to refer back to past events to justify positions on current ones.
We never want to leave legitimate prisoners behind, however it remains to be seen whether its worth it to put American lives at risk to trade for deserters.

As for learning from the past, I've always said we should learn from the past, what I object to is isolating current presidents from criticism by saying "old presidents did it, so its OK now" which is insane.

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AI Wessex
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quote:
We never want to leave legitimate prisoners behind, however it remains to be seen whether its worth it to put American lives at risk to trade for deserters.
Of course there's no proof that he was a deserter. Even your own references don't actually make the case most of the time. The rest of the time they are mostly hearsay. It's up to a military court to make that determination.
quote:
As for learning from the past, I've always said we should learn from the past, what I object to is isolating current presidents from criticism by saying "old presidents did it, so its OK now" which is insane.
No, that's just a rationalization you made up so you can escape comparisons that you don't like. History and tradition are a large basis for precedent in governance and drivers of foreign policy. You can't just duck ones when they don't fit the narrative you want to cling to.
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Seneca
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The first American killed in the Afghan war was killed in part by one of the guys who was traded. His daughter is now speaking out.

quote:
Alison Spann was just 9 when she learned her father, a U.S. Marine-turned CIA operative, had become the first American killed in the war in Afghanistan. Thirteen years later, she found out her country had freed the Taliban leader behind his death.

In the time between, Spann has cherished the memory of her father, Johnny Micheal “Mike” Spann, who was killed during a Nov. 25, 2001 prisoner uprising at a northern Afghanistan compound where he was interrogating Taliban fighters. The 32-year-old was buried at Arlington National Cemetery in a ceremony in which he was lauded by then-CIA Director George Tenet for trying to build a "better, safer world." His daughter has since grown up and recently graduated from Pepperdine University, even as more than 2,300 Americans have died fighting in Afghanistan.

But nothing prepared Alison Spann for news that Mullah Mohammad Fazi, the unquestioned leader of the prisoners at the compound where her father was killed, had been traded along with four cohorts held at Guantanamo Bay for U.S. Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl, who had been held by the Taliban for nearly five years.

“It does become harder and harder to have faith in an administration that is plagued with scandal after scandal.”
- Alison Spann, daughter of first American killed in war in Afghanistan
“My initial reaction was shock. I was shocked that our president would release five of the most high-risk prisoners being held in Guantanamo in exchange for one American,” she told FoxNews.com. “As a whole, my family was extremely upset and saddened that our government would do something like this, especially in light of the fact that it seems that people in the intelligence community are fairly united in their belief that these terrorists are likely to seek to further harm Americans in the future.”


She has followed the story closely, but still cannot fathom how the country her father loved and fought for could allow his killer to go free.

“It does become harder and harder to have faith in an administration that is plagued with scandal after scandal,” she said. “I do not believe that it was the right move by the administration.”


Mike Spann died at the Qala-i-Jangi compound near Mazari Sharit in northern Afghanistan, where he was interrogating detainees captured during the early weeks of the war. Fazi, according to his Guantanamo case file, had been deputy defense minister and commander of all Taliban troops in the northern Afghanistan region at the time of the September 11 attacks. Before that, he was accused by Human Rights organizations of personally supervising the murders of thousands of Shiite and Tajik Sunni Muslims.

Although Secretary of State John Kerry has called concerns that Fazi and the other four freed Taliban leaders will return to the battlefield "baloney," Alison Spann considers it only a matter of time.

“You cannot release someone of such a high caliber within the Taliban community and expect him to suddenly emerge as a peaceful being. I would think now more than ever after being detained in Gitmo that he would seek revenge on America,” she said. “These prisoners had one goal when they went into Gitmo and I feel certain that they left Gitmo with that same goal, and that is to do harm and spread evil in the world. The implications from this act will reach further than our soil and I am afraid that these prisoners have no plans of standing down from their original fight.”

Tenet told mourners at Spann's funeral that it was his “quest for right” that led him to Afghanistan.

“To that place of danger and terror, he sought to bring justice and freedom," Tenet said. "And to our nation – which he held so close to his heart – he sought to bring a still greater measure of strength and security. For Mike understood that it is not enough simply to dream of a better, safer world. He understood that it has to be built – with passion and dedication, in the face of obstacles, in the face of evil.”

While Spann is widely regarded as a hero and a patriot, questions have arisen about Bergdahl. Men who served with Bergdahl have said he deserted his post, and Bergdahl's own emails and journal entries appear to support the charge. Alison Spann declined to characterize the circumstances behind Bergdahl's departure from his base in 2009, but said trading with terrorists is not wise policy.

“While I cannot speak on Bergdahl because it seems that there is a lot that is still unclear about him I can say that I do not agree with this swap,” Alison added. “I believe that the implications from this decision will be seen in the near future.”

Mike Spann’s star is the 79th star carved on the Agency’s Memorial Wall. He also received the Intelligence Star and the Exceptional Service Medallion posthumously.


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AI Wessex
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Why do you post yet another FOX News hit piece as if it adds information to the discussion?
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Seneca
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I wasn't aware stating facts was considered a "hit piece." Do you have a source that contradicts those facts about the terrorist sent to Qatar?

It's fairly clear this was a bad trade. I'm not sure why this guy wasn't never charged and convicted, but it's pretty clear he had a lot of death on his hands, and he will most likely go back out and try to kill as many Americans as possible. This was a very bad trade and will lead to Americans being killed.

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Greg Davidson
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Seneca,

What are the odds the a report by Fox News is stating facts?

Yet another empirical study has come out revealing that those Americans who trust in the accuracy of Fox News are more likely to have false beliefs about facts.

link

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Seneca
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Nothing like poisoning the well when you have no other response huh?

Why don't you address the facts of the article and present a source that directly disputes it if you think it's not credible?

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LetterRip
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He was a POW and attempted to escape, the fact that her father was killed during an attempted escape by POWs shouldn't have any bearing.

If a soldier killing other soldiers should determine whether a POW is released, almost none of our POWs would ever be returned.

She seems pretty much completely uniformed on the topic. She keeps referring to the POWs as 'terrorists' - none of them were terrorists.

"These prisoners had one goal when they went into Gitmo and I feel certain that they left Gitmo with that same goal, and that is to do harm and spread evil in the world."

We invaded their country, I suspect their goal was to repel the invading foreigner.

There is no suggestion that these men have any interest in terrorism. They might well hate us now - most POWs have no great love for the country they were captured by, especially if they were tortured.

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Mynnion
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Seneca-I was under the impression that an individual was innocent until proven guilty in this country. He may very well have deserted but he has not yet been convicted and therefore retains the right to a trial. If he is found not guilty will the trade have been worth it? Would it be fair for him to be found guilty without his testimony?

There is a lot of crap going around the various media circuits that has very little to do with the facts and a lot to do with political posturing. There will certainly be an investigation. With all the political attention this has gotten it will probably be thorough. If he is guilty of deserting let him face the consequences. If not then he should be receiving a lot of apologies.

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Seneca
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quote:
Originally posted by LetterRip:
He was a POW and attempted to escape, the fact that her father was killed during an attempted escape by POWs shouldn't have any bearing.

If a soldier killing other soldiers should determine whether a POW is released, almost none of our POWs would ever be returned.

She seems pretty much completely uniformed on the topic. She keeps referring to the POWs as 'terrorists' - none of them were terrorists.

"These prisoners had one goal when they went into Gitmo and I feel certain that they left Gitmo with that same goal, and that is to do harm and spread evil in the world."

We invaded their country, I suspect their goal was to repel the invading foreigner.

There is no suggestion that these men have any interest in terrorism. They might well hate us now - most POWs have no great love for the country they were captured by, especially if they were tortured.

You think the people being held in Gitmo were POWs?
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Seneca
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quote:
Originally posted by Mynnion:
Seneca-I was under the impression that an individual was innocent until proven guilty in this country. He may very well have deserted but he has not yet been convicted and therefore retains the right to a trial. If he is found not guilty will the trade have been worth it? Would it be fair for him to be found guilty without his testimony?

There is a lot of crap going around the various media circuits that has very little to do with the facts and a lot to do with political posturing. There will certainly be an investigation. With all the political attention this has gotten it will probably be thorough. If he is guilty of deserting let him face the consequences. If not then he should be receiving a lot of apologies.

The difference here is that if he is found to be guilty, we can't just snap our fingers and get back the terrorist killers we traded for him.
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Greg Davidson
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quote:
Why don't you address the facts of the article and present a source that directly disputes it if you think it's not credible?
Seneca,

I very frequently have, but I find I have at the moment gotten tired of BS whack-a-mole.

When will we hear for the first time that you have taken responsibility for subjecting us to bogus claims?

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Seneca
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When will we hear you admit you are wrong? This trade was terrible, and the facts keep adding up to that.
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Mynnion
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Seneca-So you have convicted him. He may be as guilty as sin or there may be information we are unaware of. Without hearing all the FACTS (not hearsay) we won't know.
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Seneca
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Answer this, if he is found guilty can we snap our fingers and get back those 5 terrorists?
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Mynnion
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If he were a decorated hero would your answer be the same?
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Seneca
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Answer my question first.
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LetterRip
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Seneca,

quote:
You think the people being held in Gitmo were POWs?
Some individuals held at Gitmo are POWs. In this case all five appear to be POWs.

They are members of the government and military, of a country that we invaded, and were captured in that country during military operations. None of them are accussed of terroristic acts that I'm aware of. One was an 'army chief of staff'.

quote:
[e]very person in enemy hands must have some status under international law: he is either a prisoner of war and, as such, covered by the Third Convention, a civilian covered by the Fourth Convention, or again, a member of the medical personnel of the armed forces who is covered by the First Convention. There is no intermediate status; nobody in enemy hands can be outside the law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlawful_combatant

http://www.juridicainternational.eu/index/2005/vol-x/the-status-and-protection-of-unlawful-combatants/

There are no magical other categories under international law.

What do you think they should be called?

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LetterRip
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Regarding Begdahl, a wikileak of signal intercepts (in 2009) suggests that he was neither AWOL nor a deserter, instead he had gone off to take a dump and was captured mid process.

quote:
1- WE WERE ATTACKING THE POST HE WAS SITTING TAKING EXPLETIVE HE HAD NO GUN WITH HIM. HE WAS TAKING EXPLETIVE, HE HAS NOT CLEANED HIS BUTT YET. 2- WHAT SHEAM FOR THEM. 1- I DONT THINK HE W 2-YES LOOK THEY HAVE ALL AMERICANS, ANA HELICOPTERS THE PLANES ARE LOOKING FOR HIM. 1- I THINK HE IS BIG SHOT THAT WHY THEY ARE LOOKING FOR HIM. 3-CAN YOU GUYS MAKE A VIDEO OF HIM AND ANNOUNCE IT ALL OVER AFGHANISTAN THAT WE HAVE ONE OF THE AMERICANS. 1- WE ALREADY HAVE A VIDEO OF HIM.
http://wikileaks.org/afg/event/2009/06/AFG20090630n1790.html

[ June 15, 2014, 12:05 AM: Message edited by: LetterRip ]

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Mynnion
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Seneca- As far as snapping your fingers and retrieving the released POWs/terrorists the answer is that it is unlikely that we could immediately recover them.

Now answer my question. If Bergdahl was a war hero would the trade have been a bad deal?

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Pete at Home
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LR, you dont recognize that certain individuals auch as spiies and covert saboteurs are denied Geneva POW status?
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LetterRip
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Pete,

I do.

If a country invades the US and captures any of our domestic politicians - say they invade and capture a bunch of senators and congressmen, and cabinet members, perhaps even the President and Vice President. None of those individuals would be wearing uniforms.

Are you saying they would not be subject to the Geneva convention?

From what I understand most of these captures were not on the battlefield.

For instance,

quote:
In October 2001, Abdul Haq Wasiq, another of the five, traveled to Ghazni province for a clandestine meeting with the CIA and Afghan warlords in an attempt to strike a deal. Wasiq worked with the Taliban's spy agency, and he was negotiating on behalf of his boss, according to the memoir of Harry Crumpton, then deputy chief of operations at the CIA's Counterterrorism Center.
quote:
Of the five, only Mullah Mohammad Fazl and Mullah Norullah Noori were significant military commanders. In November 2001, as their movement was collapsing around them, they surrendered, along with their foot soldiers, to the U.S.-backed warlord Abdul Rashid Dostum. (Fazl is a notorious human rights violator, as is Dostum).
Years earlier, Fazl had helped Dostum escape a precarious battlefield situation, and he engineered the deal in the hopes of having the favor returned. But Dostum sold them to the Americans and massacred hundreds—some sources say thousands—of their foot soldiers and conscripts by suffocating them in shipping containers.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/05/opinion/gopal-taliban-bergdahl-deal/
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Seneca
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quote:
Originally posted by Mynnion:
Seneca- As far as snapping your fingers and retrieving the released POWs/terrorists the answer is that it is unlikely that we could immediately recover them.

Now answer my question. If Bergdahl was a war hero would the trade have been a bad deal?

Or unlikely that we could EVER recover them... that's more realistic.

I will honestly answer that if he were a war hero and not a deserter then the trade becomes better, though still not great as we released hostile terrorists who intend to kill again.

Is everyone here aware of of the story behind the current ISIL leader and his last words to US forces after we released him?

Did anyone happen to catch that?

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Seneca
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He said, "I will see you in New York."
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/security-beefed-us-embassy-baghdad-24147974

A few years of captivity radicalized that guy, what makes you think the terrorists from Afghanistan won't be the same way?

The point is clear, these guys want to hit us, and they want to do it here.

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philnotfil
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quote:
Originally posted by Seneca:
He said, "I will see you in New York."
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/security-beefed-us-embassy-baghdad-24147974

A few years of captivity radicalized that guy, what makes you think the terrorists from Afghanistan won't be the same way?

The point is clear, these guys want to hit us, and they want to do it here.

Or he expects the Taliban to take over the country again and have a seat at the UN [Smile]
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Seneca
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...

Is that a joke?

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Seneca
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The non-partisan GAO has concluded that the Obama administration broke TWO laws.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/21/gao-bowe-bergdahl-swap_n_5698153.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — Congressional investigators say the Pentagon violated the law when it swapped five Taliban leaders for Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl, who was held prisoner in Afghanistan for five years.

The nonpartisan Government Accountability Office says the Defense Department's failure to notify the relevant congressional committees at least 30 days in advance of the exchange broke the law.

The GAO also says the Pentagon's use of funds to conduct the transfer, when no money was available, was a violation of the Antideficiency Act which bars spending by agencies above the amount of money that Congress has obligated.


In May, five senior Taliban were released from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, in exchange for Bergdahl, who had disappeared in 2009. Under exchange terms, the five Taliban are to remain in Qatar for a year.

This is another clear case of the lawlessness that Obama engages in. He simply ignores laws he doesn't like.
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AI Wessex
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The Obama Administration (and Pentagon) say otherwise. Are they guilty or is there a debate that is worth having?
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Seneca
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Oh that partisan non - partisan GAO! It's always out to get Obama!

Let's see.

Congressional democrats think Obama is guilty.

Congressional republicans think Obama is guilty.

The non partisan GAO thinks Obama is guilty.

is Dianne Feinstein wrong that Obama broke the law?

Hrm...

[ August 21, 2014, 11:46 PM: Message edited by: Seneca ]

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